Cf aero wheels

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by cyclintom, Nov 2, 2018.

  1. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    Presently there are some super deals on carbon fiber wheels on Ebay.

    I want to convert to tubeless for my Colnago CLX so I ordered a pair. It took forever for them to get through customs. The front wheel loaded up perfectly fine. I received them two weeks ago now and the front wheel went together perfectly simple. I have had to pump it up twice - the first inflation and another after a week. After the last week they are a little soft but not much.

    But the back one did something strange: when it inflated it mad a loud cracking sound and went 1 cm out of true. Drain the air and it went back true again. None of the spokes were loose. I took it all apart to see if there were any cracks in the rim but there does appear to be.

    The seller was arguing with me about not taking it back. So I finally filed a complaint with Ebay and they responded that they would send a new "rim". Since during previous communications they had referred to the wheels as "the rims" I assumed they were sending me a new back wheel.

    In fact they sent me a new 50 mm deep rim. I don't know how many of you have ever built wheels but these sorts of wheels are VERY difficult to rebuild without any special tools. Even getting the nipples out of the inside of the rim is difficult since they are aluminum and you can't even pick them up with a magnet. I have to shake the damn things out after 30 minutes of trying.

    So if you decide to get these wheels be very certain to keep the wheelbox for awhile and if you have the SLIGHTEST problem with them file a return with Ebay and return both wheels. Do not even try to discuss it with the seller. Most of them are only barely fluent in English. Also do not put any feedback in until you're certain that the wheels are performing as you like.

    One of the problems with CF rims is that the brake pads you use have to be basalt specials. And while they work well they wear pretty fast. I have about 500 miles on mine and they need to be replaced.

    On the other hand the rubber normal brake pads on aluminum rims wear the rims out and you have to buy new wheels pretty often. Since these CF wheels perform so well I prefer replacing the pads.

    Also - be careful with what you're trying to buy - they sell what appear to be identical wheels but they are clincher only or tubeless which can be used for tubeless or clincher. For dopes like PansyBob you can also get tubulars if you're still living in the dark ages.
     
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  2. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Here we go again. The brain injured high school dropout pontificates again.
     
  3. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    Yup you have to buy new aluminum rims a lot when using rim brakes...lets see, I have a set of wheels with 45,000 miles of mostly mountain riding which means a lot of hard braking, and they're ok, so maybe after another 15,000 I might have to replace the rims; I have another set with 12,000 miles and they still look like new...darn, not sure what Tommy the high school dropout world class scientist means when he says you have to replace them often...oh, that's right I forgot, Tom doesn't mean anything when he said that because he doesn't know anything, you have to excuse him he's been smoking weed since he was 5 years old.
     
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  4. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    From your postings we have seen what sort of equipment you use. Why they must be super-lightweight aluminum like real people are riding today.

    Or you can just tell us that despite evidence to the contrary that helmets save 85% more severe head injuries than not. So as dictator of the world you want to make helmets mandatory for all.
     
  5. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    How does it feel to be in the 15%?

    Don't answer that. I'm trying to clean a chain and I'm laughing so hard at your last few replies I spilled SG on the garage floor!
     
  6. BrianNystrom

    BrianNystrom Member

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    As someone who has built a lot of wheels, I can say with some authority that there is no excuse for letting the nipples fall into the rim in the first place. The same tool that you use for inserting them can be used to take them out as you disassemble the wheel. It's not exactly rocket science...

    Additionally, I've never seen steel nipples (only brass and aluminum), so the magnet comment makes no sense at all.
     
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  7. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Caught in yet another lie.

    I just tried to get Swiss DT brass and Sapim brass nipples to stick to a Neodymium magnet thinking maybe something in the plating was magnetic.

    Nope.

    Might as well have been made of plastic.
     
  8. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    Not sure about you but I like it when nipples are falling around my rim.
     
  9. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    If you buy cheap wheels I'm sure that they can run for the next 30 years. The higher priced ones like Mavic Kyseriums either wear the braking area down to dangerously thin or they fracture out at the nipple area within a year if you are riding them hard like the people around here do. But again and again you seem to indicate that you don't ride all that much. Must be that fear of falling that you and PansyBob have in common.
     
  10. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    Tommy what you said is actually correct for a change. What you said is why a person should not be riding on high priced racing rims for daily riding! A pair of less than $600 a pair wheels is fine for the street, in fact, as you sort of alluded to, they will hold up better when hitting all nature of ruts and cracks, and holes in streets. My streets are very rough due to weather, I have a set of Shimano Silver RS500 wheels, very low costing set of wheels which of course means they are heavier then higher priced wheels, but I'm not racing so weight isn't an issue, what is an issue is durability, and since I got those on my Lynskey I haven't had to true them even once, and that included jumping curbs, banging over rough railroad tracks, etc. and their not showing any brake wear after 12,000 miles. I ride other bikes besides that one, my commuter bike is a 84 Fuji Club that I ride to work and then after work detour away form home for a longer ride; plus I also ride my 85 Schwinn Le Tour Luxe for touring and commuting if I know it might rain while at work; so my mileage since 2013 is a lot higher than the miles on the Lynskey show because I only ride that bike on weekends. I have other bikes too but those 3 are the only ones I ride, about once a year I take the others out to keep them moving a bit. I also sold off my pair of Miyata's I had to a Miyata collector earlier this year so my herd has thinned by two; and I may sell all the ones I don't ride PLUS the touring bike to take the money and apply it towards a new touring bike with a sloping top tube so I can dismount easier when it's loaded. If I do that I will keep the Lynskey and the Fuji the rest will be gone. For some unknown reason the Fuji is worth more than my other bikes, except for the Lynskey of course, not sure what drives that particular model up, it's just a mid level bike, not even high level like the Schwinn Voyager I have that would only sell for about a third of the selling price of the Fuji! Doesn't make sense to me. That's why I will keep the Fuji.
     
  11. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    Brian, I am curious about why you would say that. When you have a 50 mm deep aero rim you ARE aware that the nipples are down about 40 mm (almost 2") from the insertion slot aren't you? That the way you remove the spokes are to undo the nipples with a spoke wrench? Then perhaps you can explain how these nipples are removed with the "tool" that you undo them with? DSC00001.JPG DSC00002.JPG

    I have no idea of what you're talking about "The same tool that you use for inserting them can be used to take them out as you disassemble the wheel." The "tool" I'm using to insert them in the new rim is a spare spoke. These could not be used when taking the wheel apart because most of the spokes were too long and extended beyond the edge of the nipple. And the tubeless sealant had gotten into the threads when the wheel was disassembled so that you couldn't thread in a spare spoke blindly until you got all of the nipples out and cleaned them. When you removed the nipple it turned the sealant into the inside hole and sealed it and made it nearly impossible to thread in a spoke from the outside.

    And BTW they do make stainless nipples to go with the stainless spokes. If it is the correct grade of stainless it is magnetic.

    I have to admit that I am entirely baffled by you saying that you built wheels but cannot fathom what I'm talking about. I have built dozens of wheels, perhaps a hundred or more since I used to build wheels in a shop for the owner - he would do the final truing and torqueing. The old fashion flat Campy 32 spoke wheels I could lace and tighten in a half hour. How many deep aero wheels have you built and what was "the tool" that you used to build them?
     
  12. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    Wide tires of 25 mm or 28 mm tires will also greatly increase the life of a wheel that isn't built for lightweight racing use. I have a Campagnolo Neuron wheel that only has a couple of thousand miles on it and the rim became thin enough from wear that it started twisting under load and broke spokes. That was the most expensive of the shallow wheels from just a coupe of years ago.

    I've had several Voyagers but I couldn't see any advantage to them over your LeTour. Most of the Fujis are very good bikes and the top of their class in their price line.

    I'm going to get rid of the Time VX, Pinarello Stelvio, The Ridley XBow, the Redline Conquest, the Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra frame, fork and headset and a Pinarello Traviso frame and Strong threadless fork I have for it. I'll keep just the Basso Lotto and Colnago. Then maybe I can talk my wife into selling her Colnago Master Piu and Bridgestone MB-1. She rides so little and her Mercian is such a perfect bike that the room would be more important than a spare bike for her. She started riding again and I tried to get her to ride with the slower group. But of course she had to go off the front with the fast guys and she hurt so bad for the next couple of days that she stopped riding again. Unfortunately she is a hoarder and she has everything her hand has ever touched so that will be hard.

    Then there would be room in the garage. I have about 10 toolboxes for the different sorts of work I do - Carpentry, Car mechanics, plumbing, electricians, telephone installation, boat maintenance, and of course the bike tools all in metric. Several toolbags including my tools from the Air Force for working on B-52's. I recently saw a satellite view of March AFB and those B-52D's I worked on are still parked on the pads. They just shut the bomber fleet down where it was.

    In the three and a quarter years on the line I worked on every single one of those. And probably the six that were shot down in North Vietnam. They were good planes. We were dropping bombs so fast in Vietnam that we ran out of 500 lbers for the wing mounts and 1,000 lbers for the bomb bays so we went to 750's on the wings and 1,500s in the bays. Then 1,250's on the wings and 2,000s and 2,500's in the bays. They weren't rated for that but we did it anyway. You should have seen the fireworks when we came into the run for the SAM sites. They couldn't use guidance because our Electronic Countermeasures (ECM) jammed them. So they set them to detonate at fixed altitudes and shot them up like Ack-Ack. In one case one SAM went right between the fuselage and the swept wing and detonated maybe a thousand feet above us. We were the formation leader and everyone else in the flight saw that and went bonkers. But they didn't shoot for long. We bombed every position they had on the DMZ.
     
  13. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    I had a Mercian Vincitore Special I bought while in England, I went and visited the small factory and the shop they have, I opted for long spear point lugs, and they custom built it for my body dimensions. About 3 months after I got home the bike arrived, it was beautiful with all silver Campy Chorus and their skeleton brake arms they use to have, but I rarely rode it because I was afraid of getting even so much as a scratch on it! So after a few years of a friend constantly hammering me to sell it to him I finally relented and sold it, so now I no longer have to worry about scratching or some other damage. I should have never bought the bike in the first place, it was an impulse purchase which isn't typical behavior for me, but I sold it for what I paid for it so I didn't lose any money on it. I only rode it 200 miles, considering it was custom built it didn't ride or feel any better fit wise than off the shelf size bikes I have, so I didn't lose anything there, but it sure was a beautiful bike. I sometimes wish I hadn't sold it but then I realize I still wouldn't be riding it so it would be nothing but garage art.
     
  14. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Sure they do. Liar.

    Show these amazing magnetic stainless steel spoke nipples.
     
  15. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    Bob, there are two types of stainless steel, ferritic stainless is magnetic because it has a high concentration of iron, whereas austenitic stainless usually are not magnetic. Question is which one of the two types are used in nipples, or are both used? and if so what's the difference?
     
  16. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    The answer is...neither 300 series non-magnetic nor 400 series magnetic stainless steels are used in the construction of racing wheels for bicycles.

    Waiting to see the magic 416 series magnetic nipples. Either that or tommy's patent for the 'brass magnet'.

    Here's how anyone that's actually ever built a wheel does it. Others...well...they might just tell another lie.

    https://uniorusa.com/shop-bicycle-t...PkYKpKmGnGUzDSrB9UBV63VWNzlRbLkYaAoNtEALw_wcB

    https://www.parktool.com/category/wheel-spoke
     
  17. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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  18. BrianNystrom

    BrianNystrom Member

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    Tom, the tools I use for inserting spokes in deep rims are really simple; they consist of a short length of spoke with the threads, with a nipple threaded on leaving a specific amount of thread exposed and held in place with Loctite 271. I slip the other end of the tool into a pin vise to make it easier to control and spin. I have three of these that are set with different amounts of thread exposed for different types of nipples. When disassembling a wheel it's a simple matter to back off the nipples until there are threads available for the insertion tool, then use it to remove the nipple. It's no big deal to do, but I wouldn't say that it's fun. However, it's a hell of a lot better than chasing nipples around inside a rim.

    If you managed to get sealant all over the nipples, that's just another example of poor work practices. I use sealant in all of my tires and have never gotten it on spoke nipples. How did you manage to do that? Did you not even bother to wipe the rim down before removing the tape?

    I'm well aware that some types of stainless are magnetic. However, you haven't presented any example of stainless nipples and I seriously doubt that anyone is making them, or has in the past few decades. As you should know, stainless nipples (if they exist) on stainless spokes could be prone to galling, if the alloys are similar. I suspect that's why nobody makes them.
     
  19. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    I've had the Union tool for a lot of years. Used the spoke w/nipple crimped onto it, but never stuck it in a pin vise. Jammed mine into a ball point pen body! LOL!

    I've got some rare old stuff from 'the old' days'...including a couple boxes of spare Robegel Trois Etoiles spokes. The chrome plated pieces of crap with hydrogen embrittlement that caused failure after failure at the J-bend.

    Never heard of any stainless steel nipples.
     
  20. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    Let me begin this again - the installed spokes stuck above the level of the top of the nipple. Since they were using that locking stuff, when you loosened the spoke up, it filled the hole with that gunk and even loosened you could not insert a spoke from the top side. And even after I cleaned the nipples to use a spoke to re-insert them it was really difficult to thread them in on a blind 2" deep hole with angular spoke pull. This sealant is used all over the place these days but you have to either be a manufacturer to get your hands on it or you use tire sealant since it has the same effect.

    Why are you telling me about poor work practices? Why don't you tell the dozens of companies now in China doing that and selling you the same wheels as major American distributors for 1/3 the price how they don't know what they're doing even though companies like Zipp are selling these same products and the only difference is a Decal?

    It is absolutely incredible that you don't know about stainless steel spokes and nipples! All you had to do was look it up. https://www.amazon.com/Bavel-Stainl...pID=51YwKGgBd9L&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

    Since these are commonly used in strong wheels like MTB wheels and road wheels built for heavy riders and because the torque on these carbon wheels is through the ceiling I assumed that they would use steel since aluminum nipples don't get along well with the steel aero spokes used on all of these wheels. But do tell me about poor work practices.
     
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