CF Bike Shatters Top Tube and Down Tube after hitting a Road Divot

  • Thread starter Crescentius Vespasianus
  • Start date



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Crescentius Vespasianus

Guest
jim beam wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> Kenny wrote:
>>> Quote:
>>>
>>> "Hi,
>>>
>>> As I'm not active on these forums I'm not sure exactly what has been
>>> written on this issue but all comments and help for me would be most
>>> grateful.
>>>
>>> I ride a SCOTT CR1 team, which I have now had for over a month. I'm a
>>> keen road cyclist for fun/exercise but am not competetive. I should
>>> add that I have had the bike from new and it has never been subject to
>>> any crash, nor impact.
>>>
>>> Yesterday whilst riding (on the flat, in a mid gear), I struck a small
>>> stone with the front wheel which sent me slightly toward the curb. The
>>> front wheel presumably dipped into a divot/small hole on the road and
>>> the bike literally crumbled beneath me. The frame of the bike split
>>> into 3 pieces instantly, so fast that I had no time at all to react.
>>> Needless to say I sustained injuries of a reasonable severity.
>>>
>>> I had to attend my local hospital where I received 11 stitches to my
>>> face. I also required an Xray which showed there was no fracture to my
>>> jaw. I sustained further grazes/lacerations to both knees, both
>>> shoulder, both elbows and hands. I have also shattered 2 of my teeth,
>>> for which I'm seeing a dentist today.
>>>
>>> Whilst I accept that road cycling involves a degree of (controlled)
>>> risk, this is absolutely not something I anticipated.
>>>
>>> As a doctor, I of course have an interest in health and safety issues
>>> and thought I would raise this on here. I'm actually glad I'm alive,
>>> because a 12inch portion of the downtube shattered off entirely. This
>>> could easily have embededded itself into me.
>>>
>>> I have pictures on my phone that I can include if you feel that this
>>> would be useful.
>>>
>>> My question is really.....is this to be expected? I am strongly of the
>>> opinion that I will raise this issue with Scott, but would value all
>>> your opinions greatly.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> P.S. Pictures have been added here:
>>> http://s190.photobucket.com/albums/z284/Steebler/
>>> P.P.S. I am 9 1/2 stone and 5'8 tall, so hardly a heavyweight. "
>>>

>>
>> cf almost always gives warning signs before failure. the matrix and
>> the fibers both make cracking noises as a fracture progresses. and
>> the probability of a fracture progressing from zero to fail without a
>> period within the audible warning zone is slim to zero.
>>
>> bottom line, your frame should not have failed - probably a
>> manufacturing defect - but at the same time, you absolutely /have/ to
>> heed any pre-failure warning noises.

>
> in fact, you posted "Stem Handlebar Interface Creak Noise" on 7/5 didn't
> you?

-------------
So at first it's a creak, creak noise.
Then CREAK, then a giant zipping noise
like when they zip up a body bag, and
then you're on the ground.

Even a large diameter branch, on a tree,
first gives a creak, then a ripping
noise before it crashes to the ground.
Had some storms around here lately, it's
amazing how wind can break a 4 inch
diameter branch, like it's a toothpick.

I did see in the pics that the Scott
runs the cables inside the tubes, might
that have something to do this this.
Like some rubbing cable, cuts through
the tube.
 
Quote:

"Hi,

As I'm not active on these forums I'm not sure exactly what has been
written on this issue but all comments and help for me would be most
grateful.

I ride a SCOTT CR1 team, which I have now had for over a month. I'm a
keen road cyclist for fun/exercise but am not competetive. I should
add that I have had the bike from new and it has never been subject to
any crash, nor impact.

Yesterday whilst riding (on the flat, in a mid gear), I struck a small
stone with the front wheel which sent me slightly toward the curb. The
front wheel presumably dipped into a divot/small hole on the road and
the bike literally crumbled beneath me. The frame of the bike split
into 3 pieces instantly, so fast that I had no time at all to react.
Needless to say I sustained injuries of a reasonable severity.

I had to attend my local hospital where I received 11 stitches to my
face. I also required an Xray which showed there was no fracture to my
jaw. I sustained further grazes/lacerations to both knees, both
shoulder, both elbows and hands. I have also shattered 2 of my teeth,
for which I'm seeing a dentist today.

Whilst I accept that road cycling involves a degree of (controlled)
risk, this is absolutely not something I anticipated.

As a doctor, I of course have an interest in health and safety issues
and thought I would raise this on here. I'm actually glad I'm alive,
because a 12inch portion of the downtube shattered off entirely. This
could easily have embededded itself into me.

I have pictures on my phone that I can include if you feel that this
would be useful.

My question is really.....is this to be expected? I am strongly of the
opinion that I will raise this issue with Scott, but would value all
your opinions greatly.

Thanks in advance,

Steve

P.S. Pictures have been added here: http://s190.photobucket.com/albums/z284/Steebler/
P.P.S. I am 9 1/2 stone and 5'8 tall, so hardly a heavyweight. "
 
Kenny wrote:
> Quote:
>
> "Hi,
>
> As I'm not active on these forums I'm not sure exactly what has been
> written on this issue but all comments and help for me would be most
> grateful.
>
> I ride a SCOTT CR1 team, which I have now had for over a month. I'm a
> keen road cyclist for fun/exercise but am not competetive. I should
> add that I have had the bike from new and it has never been subject to
> any crash, nor impact.
>
> Yesterday whilst riding (on the flat, in a mid gear), I struck a small
> stone with the front wheel which sent me slightly toward the curb. The
> front wheel presumably dipped into a divot/small hole on the road and
> the bike literally crumbled beneath me. The frame of the bike split
> into 3 pieces instantly, so fast that I had no time at all to react.
> Needless to say I sustained injuries of a reasonable severity.
>
> I had to attend my local hospital where I received 11 stitches to my
> face. I also required an Xray which showed there was no fracture to my
> jaw. I sustained further grazes/lacerations to both knees, both
> shoulder, both elbows and hands. I have also shattered 2 of my teeth,
> for which I'm seeing a dentist today.
>
> Whilst I accept that road cycling involves a degree of (controlled)
> risk, this is absolutely not something I anticipated.
>
> As a doctor, I of course have an interest in health and safety issues
> and thought I would raise this on here. I'm actually glad I'm alive,
> because a 12inch portion of the downtube shattered off entirely. This
> could easily have embededded itself into me.
>
> I have pictures on my phone that I can include if you feel that this
> would be useful.
>
> My question is really.....is this to be expected? I am strongly of the
> opinion that I will raise this issue with Scott, but would value all
> your opinions greatly.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Steve
>
> P.S. Pictures have been added here: http://s190.photobucket.com/albums/z284/Steebler/
> P.P.S. I am 9 1/2 stone and 5'8 tall, so hardly a heavyweight. "
>


cf almost always gives warning signs before failure. the matrix and the
fibers both make cracking noises as a fracture progresses. and the
probability of a fracture progressing from zero to fail without a period
within the audible warning zone is slim to zero.

bottom line, your frame should not have failed - probably a
manufacturing defect - but at the same time, you absolutely /have/ to
heed any pre-failure warning noises.
 
jim beam wrote:
> Kenny wrote:
>> Quote:
>>
>> "Hi,
>>
>> As I'm not active on these forums I'm not sure exactly what has been
>> written on this issue but all comments and help for me would be most
>> grateful.
>>
>> I ride a SCOTT CR1 team, which I have now had for over a month. I'm a
>> keen road cyclist for fun/exercise but am not competetive. I should
>> add that I have had the bike from new and it has never been subject to
>> any crash, nor impact.
>>
>> Yesterday whilst riding (on the flat, in a mid gear), I struck a small
>> stone with the front wheel which sent me slightly toward the curb. The
>> front wheel presumably dipped into a divot/small hole on the road and
>> the bike literally crumbled beneath me. The frame of the bike split
>> into 3 pieces instantly, so fast that I had no time at all to react.
>> Needless to say I sustained injuries of a reasonable severity.
>>
>> I had to attend my local hospital where I received 11 stitches to my
>> face. I also required an Xray which showed there was no fracture to my
>> jaw. I sustained further grazes/lacerations to both knees, both
>> shoulder, both elbows and hands. I have also shattered 2 of my teeth,
>> for which I'm seeing a dentist today.
>>
>> Whilst I accept that road cycling involves a degree of (controlled)
>> risk, this is absolutely not something I anticipated.
>>
>> As a doctor, I of course have an interest in health and safety issues
>> and thought I would raise this on here. I'm actually glad I'm alive,
>> because a 12inch portion of the downtube shattered off entirely. This
>> could easily have embededded itself into me.
>>
>> I have pictures on my phone that I can include if you feel that this
>> would be useful.
>>
>> My question is really.....is this to be expected? I am strongly of the
>> opinion that I will raise this issue with Scott, but would value all
>> your opinions greatly.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> P.S. Pictures have been added here:
>> http://s190.photobucket.com/albums/z284/Steebler/
>> P.P.S. I am 9 1/2 stone and 5'8 tall, so hardly a heavyweight. "
>>

>
> cf almost always gives warning signs before failure. the matrix and the
> fibers both make cracking noises as a fracture progresses. and the
> probability of a fracture progressing from zero to fail without a period
> within the audible warning zone is slim to zero.
>
> bottom line, your frame should not have failed - probably a
> manufacturing defect - but at the same time, you absolutely /have/ to
> heed any pre-failure warning noises.


in fact, you posted "Stem Handlebar Interface Creak Noise" on 7/5 didn't
you?
 
After reading the person's report I looked at his photos. Something
doesn't jive. Like how does striking a road "divot" cause such
catastrophic damage? I find this hard to believe, don't you?
 
Kenny wrote:
> After reading the person's report I looked at his photos. Something
> doesn't jive. Like how does striking a road "divot" cause such
> catastrophic damage? I find this hard to believe, don't you?


Yes. There is likely a lot more going on here which is why I suggested
he consult an attorney expert in the area. That person will have the
resources to sort out what really happened. We don't.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
On Aug 15, 12:31 am, Kenny <[email protected]> wrote:
> After reading the person's report I looked at his photos. Something
> doesn't jive. Like how does striking a road "divot" cause such
> catastrophic damage? I find this hard to believe, don't you?


It looks like the entire flared section of the downtube detached
cleanly from the headtube. I suspect a bad bond here is the culprit.
The top tube then snapped and the downtube must have hit something
(curb?) to cause the third break.

It would be interesting to know how much this rider weighs. If he's
Chalo sized he should have had more sense to buy a sturdier bike.
 
> Kenny <[email protected]> wrote:
>> After reading the person's report I looked at his photos. Something
>> doesn't jive. Like how does striking a road "divot" cause such
>> catastrophic damage? I find this hard to believe, don't you?


amakyonin wrote:
> It looks like the entire flared section of the downtube detached
> cleanly from the headtube. I suspect a bad bond here is the culprit.
> The top tube then snapped and the downtube must have hit something
> (curb?) to cause the third break.
> It would be interesting to know how much this rider weighs. If he's
> Chalo sized he should have had more sense to buy a sturdier bike.


Rider says '9.5 stone' which is, what, 133 pounds-ish? 61kg? ?? About
0.4 Standard Chalos? Not usually considered bike-mangling mass.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
>>> Kenny wrote:
>>>> As I'm not active on these forums I'm not sure exactly what has been
>>>> written on this issue but all comments and help for me would be most
>>>> grateful.
>>>> I ride a SCOTT CR1 team, which I have now had for over a month. I'm a
>>>> keen road cyclist for fun/exercise but am not competetive. I should
>>>> add that I have had the bike from new and it has never been subject to
>>>> any crash, nor impact.
>>>> Yesterday whilst riding (on the flat, in a mid gear), I struck a small
>>>> stone with the front wheel which sent me slightly toward the curb. The
>>>> front wheel presumably dipped into a divot/small hole on the road and
>>>> the bike literally crumbled beneath me. The frame of the bike split
>>>> into 3 pieces instantly, so fast that I had no time at all to react.
>>>> Needless to say I sustained injuries of a reasonable severity.
>>>> I had to attend my local hospital where I received 11 stitches to my
>>>> face. I also required an Xray which showed there was no fracture to my
>>>> jaw. I sustained further grazes/lacerations to both knees, both
>>>> shoulder, both elbows and hands. I have also shattered 2 of my teeth,
>>>> for which I'm seeing a dentist today.
>>>> Whilst I accept that road cycling involves a degree of (controlled)
>>>> risk, this is absolutely not something I anticipated.
>>>> As a doctor, I of course have an interest in health and safety issues
>>>> and thought I would raise this on here. I'm actually glad I'm alive,
>>>> because a 12inch portion of the downtube shattered off entirely. This
>>>> could easily have embededded itself into me.
>>>> I have pictures on my phone that I can include if you feel that this
>>>> would be useful.
>>>> My question is really.....is this to be expected? I am strongly of the
>>>> opinion that I will raise this issue with Scott, but would value all
>>>> your opinions greatly.
>>>> P.S. Pictures have been added here:
>>>> http://s190.photobucket.com/albums/z284/Steebler/
>>>> P.P.S. I am 9 1/2 stone and 5'8 tall, so hardly a heavyweight. "

> jim beam wrote:
>>> cf almost always gives warning signs before failure. the matrix and
>>> the fibers both make cracking noises as a fracture progresses. and
>>> the probability of a fracture progressing from zero to fail without a
>>> period within the audible warning zone is slim to zero.
>>> bottom line, your frame should not have failed - probably a
>>> manufacturing defect - but at the same time, you absolutely /have/ to
>>> heed any pre-failure warning noises.


> jim beam also wrote:
>> in fact, you posted "Stem Handlebar Interface Creak Noise" on 7/5
>> didn't you?


Crescentius Vespasianus wrote:
> So at first it's a creak, creak noise. Then CREAK, then a giant zipping
> noise like when they zip up a body bag, and then you're on the ground.
> Even a large diameter branch, on a tree, first gives a creak, then a
> ripping noise before it crashes to the ground. Had some storms around
> here lately, it's amazing how wind can break a 4 inch diameter branch,
> like it's a toothpick.
> I did see in the pics that the Scott runs the cables inside the tubes,
> might that have something to do this this. Like some rubbing cable, cuts
> through the tube.


Cables chafed through a tube in just over 30 days?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
On Aug 15, 12:57 pm, amakyonin <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Aug 15, 12:31 am, Kenny <[email protected]> wrote:
>


> It looks like the entire flared section of the downtube detached
> cleanly from the headtube.


No, what I see from the pictures is the head tube is 180 degrees
turned around and the break points are all jagged.
 
>>> After reading the person's report I looked at his photos. Something
>>> doesn't jive. Like how does striking a road "divot" cause such
>>> catastrophic damage? I find this hard to believe, don't you?

>
> amakyonin wrote:
>> It looks like the entire flared section of the downtube detached
>> cleanly from the headtube. I suspect a bad bond here is the culprit.
>> The top tube then snapped and the downtube must have hit something
>> (curb?) to cause the third break.
>> It would be interesting to know how much this rider weighs. If he's
>> Chalo sized he should have had more sense to buy a sturdier bike.

>
> Rider says '9.5 stone' which is, what, 133 pounds-ish? 61kg? ?? About 0.4
> Standard Chalos? Not usually considered bike-mangling mass.


Sure, but what do you make of-

"Yesterday whilst riding (on the flat, in a mid gear), I struck a small
stone with the front wheel which sent me slightly toward the curb. "

Specifically, the part about "sent me slightly toward the curb." What
exactly is he saying?

As for bike-mangling mass, anything that brings an object to a sudden stop
is capable of inflicting GREAT damage, regardless of how light the bike &
rider are. This is something we have trouble explaining to customers who
don't feel that hitting a curb should have destroyed their frame. They talk
about how much a mountain bike is supposed to be able to handle because look
at what goes on off-road, and don't understand that, in the off-road
environment, there aren't nearly as many immovable objects as found on the
street, and thus not as many opportunities to destroy things.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
 
Assuming your story is for real, I would immediately talk to 3 good
civil plaintiff's attornies in your area and go with one. I would also be sure
the bike remains safe and untouched. Take much better pictures to
document and take images of where the accident occured.

That's a horrendous amount of damage and a defect in that frame or the
manufacturing process cannot be ruled out. I would imagine Scott would
want to make this go away.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
>
>Quote:
>
>"Hi,
>
>As I'm not active on these forums I'm not sure exactly what has been
>written on this issue but all comments and help for me would be most
>grateful.
>
>I ride a SCOTT CR1 team, which I have now had for over a month. I'm a
>keen road cyclist for fun/exercise but am not competetive. I should
>add that I have had the bike from new and it has never been subject to
>any crash, nor impact.
>
>Yesterday whilst riding (on the flat, in a mid gear), I struck a small
>stone with the front wheel which sent me slightly toward the curb. The
>front wheel presumably dipped into a divot/small hole on the road and
>the bike literally crumbled beneath me. The frame of the bike split
>into 3 pieces instantly, so fast that I had no time at all to react.
>Needless to say I sustained injuries of a reasonable severity.
>
>I had to attend my local hospital where I received 11 stitches to my
>face. I also required an Xray which showed there was no fracture to my
>jaw. I sustained further grazes/lacerations to both knees, both
>shoulder, both elbows and hands. I have also shattered 2 of my teeth,
>for which I'm seeing a dentist today.
>
>Whilst I accept that road cycling involves a degree of (controlled)
>risk, this is absolutely not something I anticipated.
>
>As a doctor, I of course have an interest in health and safety issues
>and thought I would raise this on here. I'm actually glad I'm alive,
>because a 12inch portion of the downtube shattered off entirely. This
>could easily have embededded itself into me.
>
>I have pictures on my phone that I can include if you feel that this
>would be useful.
>
>My question is really.....is this to be expected? I am strongly of the
>opinion that I will raise this issue with Scott, but would value all
>your opinions greatly.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Steve
>
>P.S. Pictures have been added here:

http://s190.photobucket.com/albums/z284/Steebler/
>P.P.S. I am 9 1/2 stone and 5'8 tall, so hardly a heavyweight. "
>
 
jim beam wrote:

> cf almost always gives warning signs before failure. the matrix and the
> fibers both make cracking noises as a fracture progresses. and the
> probability of a fracture progressing from zero to fail without a period
> within the audible warning zone is slim to zero.

Tell that to all the people who ride a bike with a MP3 player or similar in
their ears. My experience is that they hear nothing else.

Derk
 
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:32:07 -0700, Kenny <[email protected]>
wrote:
[JRA story snipped]
>My question is really.....is this to be expected?


Do you actually think that it's expected that bikes regularly shatter
on tiny impacts?

Really, do you?


--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
 
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 21:31:03 -0700, Kenny <[email protected]>
wrote:

>After reading the person's report I looked at his photos. Something
>doesn't jive. Like how does striking a road "divot" cause such
>catastrophic damage? I find this hard to believe, don't you?


It's hard to believe.

--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
 
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:32:07 -0700, Kenny <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> [JRA story snipped]
>> My question is really.....is this to be expected?

>
> Do you actually think that it's expected that bikes regularly shatter
> on tiny impacts?
>
> Really, do you?
>
>


What I'm wondering here is.... why no kevlar layer?
Yea I know cyclists are pissy about their ounces, but really.

Wouldn't guarantee you'd always land safely, but it does greatly help
with the effects of a composite component failure.
~
 
j
>> Wouldn't guarantee you'd always land safely, but it does greatly help
>> with the effects of a composite component failure.
>> ~

---------------
Body armor may stop a round fired from
an AK-47, which it has been tested for,
but I seriously doubt they have been
tested for spearing from a sharpened CF
tube. Without testing, how can you be sure?
 
Derk wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> cf almost always gives warning signs before failure. the matrix and the
>> fibers both make cracking noises as a fracture progresses. and the
>> probability of a fracture progressing from zero to fail without a period
>> within the audible warning zone is slim to zero.

> Tell that to all the people who ride a bike with a MP3 player or similar in
> their ears. My experience is that they hear nothing else.
>
> Derk


isn't it illegal?

but i know what you mean. some doofus swerving in front of you because
he's plugged in and can't hear you announce "on your left", is asking
for a darwin award.
 
DougC wrote:
> John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:32:07 -0700, Kenny <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> [JRA story snipped]
>>> My question is really.....is this to be expected?

>>
>> Do you actually think that it's expected that bikes regularly shatter
>> on tiny impacts?
>> Really, do you?
>>
>>

>
> What I'm wondering here is.... why no kevlar layer?
> Yea I know cyclists are pissy about their ounces, but really.
>
> Wouldn't guarantee you'd always land safely, but it does greatly help
> with the effects of a composite component failure.
> ~


if the correct materials are used in the first place, it wouldn't be
adding any safety at all.

regardless, something was seriously wrong here. where are these frames
made btw?
 

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