Chain cleaning advice - elusive 'creak'

Discussion in 'Australia and New Zealand' started by Michael Warner, Oct 25, 2004.

  1. On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:19:16 -0700, Peter S wrote:

    > Can anyone advise the best way to clean the chain without having to break it
    > and remove from the drivetrain? I'm trying to find the source of a creaking
    > noise when I apply a lot of force to the pedals and especially when I'm out
    > of the saddle pushing hard uphill.


    I've had three creaking/clicking regions - stem, seatpost and pedals. Since
    the seatpost isn't your problem, remove and thoroughly grease the threads
    and contact areas on the others before looking for anything more obscure.

    --
    bpo gallery at http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/mvw1/bpo
     
    Tags:


  2. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    "Peter S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Can anyone advise the best way to clean the chain without having to break

    it
    > and remove from the drivetrain? I'm trying to find the source of a

    creaking
    > noise when I apply a lot of force to the pedals and especially when I'm

    out
    > of the saddle pushing hard uphill. I've just tested how tight the crank
    > bolts are (don't have a torque wrench but I couldn't budge them any

    tighter
    > with a long handled allen key). Removed and greased the chainring bolts
    > tonight and noticed that the chain could probably do with a clean. I do
    > regularly lubricate with Pedros Ice Wax but it's looking pretty grimy.
    >
    > BTW any idea how long I can expect out of a chain. I've got Campagnonlo
    > Veloce and the chain is a Campy C9 which has done about 2000km.
    >
    > I did a group ride on the weekend for the first time. What a buzz, even if

    I
    > was feeling it towards the end. Did 125km which for me is a record ride.
    > Next time I hope it will be without the squeak if I can find it!
    >
    > Peter S
    > skypete(remove_this_bit)@iinet.net.au
    >
    >


    What pedals are you using? Shimano SPD's are notoriously noisy. You may
    have to just grin and bear it. As other have mentioned you may want to check
    other things before blaming the chain. Most creaks I've encountered stem
    from the seatpost.

    My bike will run quietly all day every day UNTIL I join a group....then it
    sounds like a dying cat! It drives me crazy!
     
  3. ritcho

    ritcho New Member

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    I'm up to 8000km on my current chain (9s Ultegra) and clean it when it needs it. I only have one of those 'in-situ' chain cleaning devices that I fill with citrus degreaser. You probably shouldn't lube a dirty chain, 'cos the grit mixes with the lube and becomes a pretty good grinding paste - accelerating wear.

    As for creaking, even if your cranks are tightened properly, they can still creak if they are not greased properly (or the pedals' threads, or the pedals' bearings). If you have a quill stem, it can creak as well! (As I can attest...)

    Ritch

    Try this link...

    http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8d.2.html
     
  4. "Michael Warner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:19:16 -0700, Peter S wrote:
    >
    >> Can anyone advise the best way to clean the chain without having to break
    >> it
    >> and remove from the drivetrain? I'm trying to find the source of a
    >> creaking
    >> noise when I apply a lot of force to the pedals and especially when I'm
    >> out
    >> of the saddle pushing hard uphill.

    >
    > I've had three creaking/clicking regions - stem, seatpost and pedals.
    > Since
    > the seatpost isn't your problem, remove and thoroughly grease the threads
    > and contact areas on the others before looking for anything more obscure.
    >
    >

    Err... I wouldn't call a creaking bottom bracket 'obscure'. If it isn't the
    pedals (make sure you do them up tightly after greasing them) it's probably
    the BB, cause it's usually reasonably easy to tell whether it's the bars or
    drivetrain, and he's already looked at the crankbolts (unlikely candidate).
     
  5. Brad Hubbard

    Brad Hubbard Guest

    Peter S wrote:

    > Can anyone advise the best way to clean the chain without having to break
    > it and remove from the drivetrain? I'm trying to find the source of a
    > creaking noise when I apply a lot of force to the pedals and especially
    > when I'm out of the saddle pushing hard uphill. I've just tested how tight
    > the crank bolts are (don't have a torque wrench but I couldn't budge them
    > any tighter with a long handled allen key). Removed and greased the
    > chainring bolts tonight and noticed that the chain could probably do with
    > a clean. I do regularly lubricate with Pedros Ice Wax but it's looking
    > pretty grimy.


    I just got a chain bath off Ebay for $5.00, just do a search for chain or go
    to your LBS. Be careful that you get a non caustic degreaser as some can
    corrode your frame. If you're really *green* get a citrus based one.

    > BTW any idea how long I can expect out of a chain. I've got Campagnonlo
    > Veloce and the chain is a Campy C9 which has done about 2000km.


    I was told you should replace your chain every twelve months but I guess
    it's dependant on how many ks you're doing.

    Cheers,
    Brad
     
  6. Brad Hubbard

    Brad Hubbard Guest

    Peter S wrote:
    > I'm trying to find the source of a
    > creaking noise when I apply a lot of force to the pedals and especially
    > when I'm out of the saddle pushing hard uphill.


    Bottom bracket? I'm no expert so get a second opinion.

    BTW, If you clean your chain you should also take your cranks off and give
    them a good clean and pull your rear wheel off and go to town with
    degreaser, a toothbrush and lots of rags on your cluster, derailleurs, etc.

    Cheers,
    Brad
     
  7. ritcho

    ritcho New Member

    Joined:
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    Hmm, try this link as well:

    http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8f.11.html A pattern is developing here. :)

    I've found that a good rule of thumb is that if it has threads, grease them. If it presses on something, grease it. I use good old fashioned auto grease (the black/dark grey colour) from the auto shop. The only tricky bits are when you are installing things of different materials - I recall having to use anti-seize on the bottom-bracket somewhere... I just followed the installation instructions when I bought the groupset. If in doubt, look for service instructions on the internet.

    Ritch
     
  8. Andrew Price

    Andrew Price Guest

    Peter S wrote -

    > Can anyone advise the best way to clean the chain without having to break

    it
    > and remove from the drivetrain? >
    >

    Peter - you could try using a removable link (SRAM do a go one, and I think
    the Wipperman chains come with one).

    An experienced bike mechanic will usually find the source of a creak pretty
    quickly - and finding that out is often worthwhile.

    best Andrew (whose creak turned out to be a cracked bottom bracket).
     
  9. Marx SS

    Marx SS New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
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    Bike: Specialised Stumpjumper MTB, running Schimano LX throughout.
    Just before the ‘bay ride I got a massively noisy BB. I tried everything, including every point on the frame, seat post etc . Took it to a shop & they threw on new pedals (SPD).
    Noise gone.
     
  10. dave

    dave Guest

    Peter S wrote:
    > Can anyone advise the best way to clean the chain without having to break it
    > and remove from the drivetrain? I'm trying to find the source of a creaking
    > noise when I apply a lot of force to the pedals and especially when I'm out
    > of the saddle pushing hard uphill. I've just tested how tight the crank
    > bolts are (don't have a torque wrench but I couldn't budge them any tighter
    > with a long handled allen key). Removed and greased the chainring bolts
    > tonight and noticed that the chain could probably do with a clean. I do
    > regularly lubricate with Pedros Ice Wax but it's looking pretty grimy.
    >
    > BTW any idea how long I can expect out of a chain. I've got Campagnonlo
    > Veloce and the chain is a Campy C9 which has done about 2000km.
    >
    > I did a group ride on the weekend for the first time. What a buzz, even if I
    > was feeling it towards the end. Did 125km which for me is a record ride.
    > Next time I hope it will be without the squeak if I can find it!
    >
    > Peter S
    > skypete(remove_this_bit)@iinet.net.au
    >
    >

    You have a TCR dont you :)
     
  11. dave

    dave Guest

    dave wrote:
    > Peter S wrote:
    >
    >> Can anyone advise the best way to clean the chain without having to
    >> break it and remove from the drivetrain? I'm trying to find the source
    >> of a creaking noise when I apply a lot of force to the pedals and
    >> especially when I'm out of the saddle pushing hard uphill. I've just
    >> tested how tight the crank bolts are (don't have a torque wrench but I
    >> couldn't budge them any tighter with a long handled allen key).
    >> Removed and greased the chainring bolts tonight and noticed that the
    >> chain could probably do with a clean. I do regularly lubricate with
    >> Pedros Ice Wax but it's looking pretty grimy.
    >>
    >> BTW any idea how long I can expect out of a chain. I've got
    >> Campagnonlo Veloce and the chain is a Campy C9 which has done about
    >> 2000km.
    >>
    >> I did a group ride on the weekend for the first time. What a buzz,
    >> even if I was feeling it towards the end. Did 125km which for me is a
    >> record ride. Next time I hope it will be without the squeak if I can
    >> find it!
    >>
    >> Peter S
    >> skypete(remove_this_bit)@iinet.net.au
    >>

    > You have a TCR dont you :)

    Actually I guess not.. not with campy. Hmmm other bikes do this? I
    just can;t hear em over the noise from mine I guess

    Dave
     
  12. Peter S

    Peter S Guest

    Can anyone advise the best way to clean the chain without having to break it
    and remove from the drivetrain? I'm trying to find the source of a creaking
    noise when I apply a lot of force to the pedals and especially when I'm out
    of the saddle pushing hard uphill. I've just tested how tight the crank
    bolts are (don't have a torque wrench but I couldn't budge them any tighter
    with a long handled allen key). Removed and greased the chainring bolts
    tonight and noticed that the chain could probably do with a clean. I do
    regularly lubricate with Pedros Ice Wax but it's looking pretty grimy.

    BTW any idea how long I can expect out of a chain. I've got Campagnonlo
    Veloce and the chain is a Campy C9 which has done about 2000km.

    I did a group ride on the weekend for the first time. What a buzz, even if I
    was feeling it towards the end. Did 125km which for me is a record ride.
    Next time I hope it will be without the squeak if I can find it!

    Peter S
    skypete(remove_this_bit)@iinet.net.au
     
  13. mfhor

    mfhor New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2004
    Messages:
    450
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    0
    You can isolate the variable (see, even bike mechanics are a bit scientific!) by standing up and pedaling, pushing down on each crank in turn on a stationary bike, twisting the 'bars in both axes. Most common: cranks on spindle; 2nd, B/B in frame/chainrings on crank spider; 3rd, bars/stem/steerer tube or seatpost/seat, seatpost/frame; 4th, pedals in cranks; also - cassette on freehub (tighten lockring or freehub body into hub shell), riveted cassette cogs on carrier (peen rivets - carefully!), cracked frame, loose spokes. Only very rarely does a chain creak, then not for long - it breaks!

    DON'T GREASE THE TAPERS OF A CRANK SPINDLE! Please? It destroys the fit of cranks by . . . oh, look it up in the archives of rec.bicycles.tech. Whole empires have been destroyed in the mighty conflict on this point of contention. Just grease the bolt threads, then torque it tight.

    M "the rain in Spain rains mainly on the metal/metal interfaces of my bike, making them squeak" H
     
  14. K&C Russell

    K&C Russell Guest

    "Brad Hubbard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:rxgfd.204$%[email protected]
    > Peter S wrote:
    > > I'm trying to find the source of a
    > > creaking noise when I apply a lot of force to the pedals and especially
    > > when I'm out of the saddle pushing hard uphill.

    >
    > Bottom bracket? I'm no expert so get a second opinion.
    >
    > BTW, If you clean your chain you should also take your cranks off and give
    > them a good clean and pull your rear wheel off and go to town with
    > degreaser, a toothbrush and lots of rags on your cluster, derailleurs,

    etc.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Brad


    The 2nd opinion is BB. You may be able to reproduced the sound by standing
    at right angles to the bike pushing the pedal firmly from the side with your
    foot.

    It is unlikely to be the chain, it probalby needs a clean, wipe it down and
    lube as they all do. I doubt this will solve your problem.

    Check the BB is correctly fitted and tight. If you are confident pull the
    cranks, remove, inspect, grease threads and replace.

    Kev
     
  15. Jock

    Jock Guest

    Bottom bracket. Guaranteed. Pull it apart, clean the cups, check for wear,
    check your balls aren't dimpled - hehe then regrease them and refit the BB.
    Adjust for minimum smoke & freeplay - avoid overtightening and give it a go.
    A couple of k's up out of the saddle will prove me right or not.
    Jock
    "Peter S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    | Can anyone advise the best way to clean the chain without having to break
    it
    | and remove from the drivetrain? I'm trying to find the source of a
    creaking
    | noise when I apply a lot of force to the pedals and especially when I'm
    out
    | of the saddle pushing hard uphill. I've just tested how tight the crank
    | bolts are (don't have a torque wrench but I couldn't budge them any
    tighter
    | with a long handled allen key). Removed and greased the chainring bolts
    | tonight and noticed that the chain could probably do with a clean. I do
    | regularly lubricate with Pedros Ice Wax but it's looking pretty grimy.
    |
    | BTW any idea how long I can expect out of a chain. I've got Campagnonlo
    | Veloce and the chain is a Campy C9 which has done about 2000km.
    |
    | I did a group ride on the weekend for the first time. What a buzz, even if
    I
    | was feeling it towards the end. Did 125km which for me is a record ride.
    | Next time I hope it will be without the squeak if I can find it!
    |
    | Peter S
    | skypete(remove_this_bit)@iinet.net.au
    |
    |
     
  16. Peter S

    Peter S Guest

    "ritcho" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    I'm trying to find the source of a
    >> creaking
    >> noise when I apply a lot of force to the pedals and especially when I'm
    >> out
    >> of the saddle pushing hard uphill. I've just tested how tight the
    >> crank
    >> bolts are (don't have a torque wrench but I couldn't budge them any
    >> tighter
    >> with a long handled allen key). Removed and greased the chainring
    >> bolts
    >> tonight and noticed that the chain could probably do with a clean. I
    >> do
    >> regularly lubricate with Pedros Ice Wax but it's looking pretty grimy.
    >>
    >> BTW any idea how long I can expect out of a chain. I've got
    >> Campagnonlo
    >> Veloce and the chain is a Campy C9 which has done about 2000km.
    >>
    >> Peter S
    >> skypete(remove_this_bit)@iinet.net.au

    >
    > I'm up to 8000km on my current chain (9s Ultegra) and clean it when it
    > needs it. I only have one of those 'in-situ' chain cleaning devices
    > that I fill with citrus degreaser. You probably shouldn't lube a dirty
    > chain, 'cos the grit mixes with the lube and becomes a pretty good
    > grinding paste - accelerating wear.
    >
    > As for creaking, even if your cranks are tightened properly, they can
    > still creak if they are not greased properly (or the pedals' threads,
    > or the pedals' bearings). If you have a quill stem, it can creak as
    > well! (As I can attest...)
    >
    > Ritch
    >
    > Try this link...
    >
    > http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8d.2.html


    Are you talking here just about greasing threads on the bolts themselves. I
    seem to remember various opinions about whether the crankarms themselves
    should be greased or remain dry when they are assembled. The greasing of the
    threads on the chainring that I did last night hasn't helped. This mornings
    ride was just as noisy. I'll take the pedals off tonight and do those
    threads again. I think i'll have to get some of that citrus degreaser. I
    have been guilty of lubing the chain when it's less than clean!

    Peter S
    skypete(remove_this_bit)@iinet.net.au
     
  17. Peter S

    Peter S Guest

    "Jock" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:H7rfd.724$%[email protected]
    > Bottom bracket. Guaranteed. Pull it apart, clean the cups, check for
    > wear,
    > check your balls aren't dimpled - hehe then regrease them and refit the
    > BB.
    > Adjust for minimum smoke & freeplay - avoid overtightening and give it a
    > go.
    > A couple of k's up out of the saddle will prove me right or not.
    > Jock
    > "Peter S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > | Can anyone advise the best way to clean the chain without having to
    > break
    > it
    > | and remove from the drivetrain? I'm trying to find the source of a
    > creaking
    > | noise when I apply a lot of force to the pedals and especially when I'm
    > out
    > | of the saddle pushing hard uphill. I've just tested how tight the crank
    > | bolts are (don't have a torque wrench but I couldn't budge them any
    > tighter
    > | with a long handled allen key). Removed and greased the chainring bolts
    > | tonight and noticed that the chain could probably do with a clean. I do
    > | regularly lubricate with Pedros Ice Wax but it's looking pretty grimy.
    > |
    > | BTW any idea how long I can expect out of a chain. I've got Campagnonlo
    > | Veloce and the chain is a Campy C9 which has done about 2000km.
    > |
    > | I did a group ride on the weekend for the first time. What a buzz, even
    > if
    > I
    > | was feeling it towards the end. Did 125km which for me is a record ride.
    > | Next time I hope it will be without the squeak if I can find it!


    I've removed the pedals and regreased the threads - no difference. I spoke
    to the mechanic at the place I bought the bike from (6 months). Tomorrow
    he's going to investigate the bottom bracket which is his bet as well.
    Thanks to everyone for the advice, I'll follow up and let you know what the
    solution is whan it's found.

    With so many replies it's plainly not unusual to develop the 'squeaks' but
    the solution is elusive!

    Peter S
    [email protected]
     
  18. On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:21:03 +0930, Gemma Kernich wrote:

    > Err... I wouldn't call a creaking bottom bracket 'obscure'.


    Well, it's never been the problem for me or anyone I've talked to
    about unwanted noises, and I've seen some comments on the web
    saying that it's rarely the culprit, too.

    --
    bpo gallery at http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/mvw1/bpo
     
  19. Evan

    Evan Guest

    One of the worst "elusive noises" I have had was the little plastic bits
    at the end of a shoelace hitting the shoe each revolution. Took me days
    to work out where it was coming from :)

    Peter S wrote:
    >
     
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