Chain cleaning controversy!



O

Owen Pope

Guest
I was reading the VELONEWS website a few days ago, and I ran
across this article by Lennard Zinn:
http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/10011.0.html

In it he dispenses his advice on caring for chains, including
cleaning.
Zinn recommends simply wiping the chain off and re-lubing, as
opposed to shaking the chain in solvent.
The reasoning is that shaking in solvent will drive the gunk
further into the chain than possible by wiping it down.

Since this is directly contrary to what I have done (I shake
in solvent), and since I trust the accumulated wisdom of
R.B.T. more than I do Mr. Zinn, I thought I'd put this out for
consideration.

Also, he recommends using chain-length gauges, which I feel
deserves mockery.
So get to it!

-Owen
 
R

RonSonic

Guest
On 3 Jul 2006 14:58:53 GMT, Owen Pope <[email protected]> wrote:

>I was reading the VELONEWS website a few days ago, and I ran
>across this article by Lennard Zinn:
>http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/10011.0.html
>
>In it he dispenses his advice on caring for chains, including
>cleaning.
>Zinn recommends simply wiping the chain off and re-lubing, as
>opposed to shaking the chain in solvent.
>The reasoning is that shaking in solvent will drive the gunk
>further into the chain than possible by wiping it down.
>
>Since this is directly contrary to what I have done (I shake
>in solvent), and since I trust the accumulated wisdom of
>R.B.T. more than I do Mr. Zinn, I thought I'd put this out for
>consideration.


Whatev. That is the answer to chain cleaning controversy. Cleaner is better than
dirtier. How thorough you need to be depends on how ready you are to replace
them. How do you clean them? However makes sense to you.

>Also, he recommends using chain-length gauges, which I feel
>deserves mockery.


What's wrong with them. I don't use one, but then I don't throw bikes on a stand
and work on dozens of them a day. If I did, then it'd make sense to just hang a
guage off the stand and not have to handle a scale, dirty chain and reading
glasses all at the same time.

>So get to it!


bite me.

Ron
 
S

Sandy

Guest
Owen Pope a écrit :
> I was reading the VELONEWS website a few days ago, and I ran
> across this article by Lennard Zinn:
> http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/10011.0.html
>
> In it he dispenses his advice on caring for chains, including
> cleaning.
> Zinn recommends simply wiping the chain off and re-lubing, as
> opposed to shaking the chain in solvent.


Whatever the reasoning, I just don't get too worked up over chain life.
I do as Zinn does. Works for me. Plenty of oil, and plenty of wiping.
Close to dry. I only do it when the noise starts. No regular schedule.
I just can't see spending so much time doting on a chain that will wear
out sometime.
I usually get 5-7000 km out of a chain, except for the ones on the
winter bike.
Those, I change after spring comes, not questioning how much life remains.

--

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

The above is guaranteed 100% free of sarcasm,
denigration, snotty remarks, indifference, platitudes, fuming demands that
"you do the math", conceited visions of a better world on wheels according
to [insert NAME here].
 
L

Lou Holtman

Guest
Owen Pope wrote:
> I was reading the VELONEWS website a few days ago, and I ran
> across this article by Lennard Zinn:
> http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/10011.0.html
>
> In it he dispenses his advice on caring for chains, including
> cleaning.
> Zinn recommends simply wiping the chain off and re-lubing, as
> opposed to shaking the chain in solvent.
> The reasoning is that shaking in solvent will drive the gunk
> further into the chain than possible by wiping it down.
>
> Since this is directly contrary to what I have done (I shake
> in solvent), and since I trust the accumulated wisdom of
> R.B.T. more than I do Mr. Zinn, I thought I'd put this out for
> consideration.
>
> Also, he recommends using chain-length gauges, which I feel
> deserves mockery.
> So get to it!


I think Mr. Zinn is right. Messing with solvent...I don't get it.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
 
J

John Forrest Tomlinson

Guest
On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 17:55:56 +0200, Lou Holtman
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Owen Pope wrote:
>> I was reading the VELONEWS website a few days ago, and I ran
>> across this article by Lennard Zinn:
>> http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/10011.0.html
>>
>> In it he dispenses his advice on caring for chains, including
>> cleaning.
>> Zinn recommends simply wiping the chain off and re-lubing, as
>> opposed to shaking the chain in solvent.
>> The reasoning is that shaking in solvent will drive the gunk
>> further into the chain than possible by wiping it down.
>>
>> Since this is directly contrary to what I have done (I shake
>> in solvent), and since I trust the accumulated wisdom of
>> R.B.T. more than I do Mr. Zinn, I thought I'd put this out for
>> consideration.
>>
>> Also, he recommends using chain-length gauges, which I feel
>> deserves mockery.
>> So get to it!

>
>I think Mr. Zinn is right. Messing with solvent...I don't get it.


I've started doing the solvent thing in the last year, after starting
to use chains with master links that are easy to remove. I wipe the
thing with a dry rag to get off surface dirt. Then put it in a bottle
that has mineral spirits in it. Cap the bottle, shake hard. Then
fish the chain out and put it into a second bottle with mineral spirts
and motor oil. Cap the bottle, shake hard. Then fish it out, wipe it
off. Works great.

When I'm in a hurry I'll skip the bottles and do it Zinn-style. But
those two bottles sit ready to use and work fast too.

JT


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O

Owen Pope

Guest
RonSonic <[email protected]> wrote in
news:p[email protected]:

> On 3 Jul 2006 14:58:53 GMT, Owen Pope <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>I was reading the VELONEWS website a few days ago, and I
>>ran across this article by Lennard Zinn:
>>http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/10011.0.html
>>
>>In it he dispenses his advice on caring for chains,
>>including cleaning.
>>Zinn recommends simply wiping the chain off and re-lubing,
>>as opposed to shaking the chain in solvent.
>>The reasoning is that shaking in solvent will drive the
>>gunk further into the chain than possible by wiping it
>>down.
>>
>>Since this is directly contrary to what I have done (I
>>shake in solvent), and since I trust the accumulated wisdom
>>of R.B.T. more than I do Mr. Zinn, I thought I'd put this
>>out for consideration.

>
> Whatev. That is the answer to chain cleaning controversy.
> Cleaner is better than dirtier. How thorough you need to
> be depends on how ready you are to replace them. How do you
> clean them? However makes sense to you.


Right. Well, I have too much time on my hands, and I would
like to know the cleanest method.


>>Also, he recommends using chain-length gauges, which I feel
>>deserves mockery.

>
> What's wrong with them. I don't use one, but then I don't
> throw bikes on a stand and work on dozens of them a day. If
> I did, then it'd make sense to just hang a guage off the
> stand and not have to handle a scale, dirty chain and
> reading glasses all at the same time.


A scale? What would you use a scale for?

I just think that it's easier to use a ruler or tape
measure, especially for people who DON'T work in a shop, and
might like to limit their purchases of specialized equipment.
Hell, they might save enough time to be worth it in a shop.
 
Owen Pope writes:

> I was reading the VELONEWS website a few days ago, and I ran across
> this article by Lennard Zinn:


http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/10011.0.html

> In it he dispenses his advice on caring for chains, including
> cleaning. Zinn recommends simply wiping the chain off and
> re-lubing, as opposed to shaking the chain in solvent. The
> reasoning is that shaking in solvent will drive the gunk further
> into the chain than possible by wiping it down.


> Since this is directly contrary to what I have done (I shake in
> solvent), and since I trust the accumulated wisdom of R.B.T. more
> than I do Mr. Zinn, I thought I'd put this out for consideration.


> Also, he recommends using chain-length gauges, which I feel deserves
> mockery.


http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/chain-care.html

> So get to it!


Are you trying to make this look lke a troll with that comment? It
just might be, considering the opening line of the referenced FAQ.

--
Jobst Brandt
 
O

Owen Pope

Guest
John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 17:55:56 +0200, Lou Holtman
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Owen Pope wrote:
>>> I was reading the VELONEWS website a few days ago, and I
>>> ran across this article by Lennard Zinn:
>>> http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/10011.0.html
>>>
>>> In it he dispenses his advice on caring for chains,
>>> including cleaning.
>>> Zinn recommends simply wiping the chain off and
>>> re-lubing, as opposed to shaking the chain in solvent.
>>> The reasoning is that shaking in solvent will drive the
>>> gunk further into the chain than possible by wiping it
>>> down.
>>>
>>> Since this is directly contrary to what I have done (I
>>> shake in solvent), and since I trust the accumulated
>>> wisdom of R.B.T. more than I do Mr. Zinn, I thought I'd
>>> put this out for consideration.
>>>
>>> Also, he recommends using chain-length gauges, which I
>>> feel deserves mockery.
>>> So get to it!

>>
>>I think Mr. Zinn is right. Messing with solvent...I don't
>>get it.

>
> I've started doing the solvent thing in the last year,
> after starting to use chains with master links that are
> easy to remove. I wipe the thing with a dry rag to get off
> surface dirt. Then put it in a bottle that has mineral
> spirits in it. Cap the bottle, shake hard. Then fish the
> chain out and put it into a second bottle with mineral
> spirts and motor oil. Cap the bottle, shake hard. Then
> fish it out, wipe it off. Works great.
>
> When I'm in a hurry I'll skip the bottles and do it
> Zinn-style. But those two bottles sit ready to use and
> work fast too.



Sounds like a good idea. I assume you use the oil/spirits mix
for lubrication. How much oil do you use?

My big question here is: how much grit gets pushed in with
either method, and how much does it matter?
i.e. Does the solvent-shaking method push in more fine grit
vs. wiping it down? Which causes more wear?

Yeah, I know it's not a big deal either way, but I'm just
curious.

-Owen
 
L

Leo Lichtman

Guest
"Owen Pope" wrote: A scale? What would you use a scale for? (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'll bet you think he meant weigh the chain. Well, I think he meant measure
the chain.

I think the risk of immersing and shaking the chain in solvent, is not that
it will drive dirt into the chain, but that it will replace the lubricant
that was there with solvent. Then, if you don't do a good job of removing
the solvent, it will inhibit the flow of lubricant back into the chain.
Part of the problem is that you can't see any of this happening--you risk
going back on the road with a chain that has solvent inside instead of oil.
With motorcycle chain, I used to heat the chain after washing, in a can of
oil. Theory is, the heat will cause the solvent to boil off. You then let
it cool in the oil, and atmospheric pressure and capillary action cause the
oil to draw back inside the links.
 
R

RonSonic

Guest
On 3 Jul 2006 16:51:27 GMT, Owen Pope <[email protected]> wrote:

>RonSonic <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:p[email protected]:
>
>> On 3 Jul 2006 14:58:53 GMT, Owen Pope <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I was reading the VELONEWS website a few days ago, and I
>>>ran across this article by Lennard Zinn:
>>>http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/10011.0.html
>>>
>>>In it he dispenses his advice on caring for chains,
>>>including cleaning.
>>>Zinn recommends simply wiping the chain off and re-lubing,
>>>as opposed to shaking the chain in solvent.
>>>The reasoning is that shaking in solvent will drive the
>>>gunk further into the chain than possible by wiping it
>>>down.
>>>
>>>Since this is directly contrary to what I have done (I
>>>shake in solvent), and since I trust the accumulated wisdom
>>>of R.B.T. more than I do Mr. Zinn, I thought I'd put this
>>>out for consideration.

>>
>> Whatev. That is the answer to chain cleaning controversy.
>> Cleaner is better than dirtier. How thorough you need to
>> be depends on how ready you are to replace them. How do you
>> clean them? However makes sense to you.

>
>Right. Well, I have too much time on my hands, and I would
>like to know the cleanest method.


However makes sense to you.

>>>Also, he recommends using chain-length gauges, which I feel
>>>deserves mockery.

>>
>> What's wrong with them. I don't use one, but then I don't
>> throw bikes on a stand and work on dozens of them a day. If
>> I did, then it'd make sense to just hang a guage off the
>> stand and not have to handle a scale, dirty chain and
>> reading glasses all at the same time.

>
>A scale? What would you use a scale for?
>
> I just think that it's easier to use a ruler or tape
>measure,


Sure, use a ruler, not a scale. Whatever you do, don't use a scale.

> especially for people who DON'T work in a shop, and
>might like to limit their purchases of specialized equipment.
>Hell, they might save enough time to be worth it in a shop.


Back under the bridge and thank you for playing.

Ron
 
J

John Forrest Tomlinson

Guest
On 3 Jul 2006 17:08:54 GMT, Owen Pope <[email protected]> wrote:

>John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:


>> I've started doing the solvent thing in the last year,
>> after starting to use chains with master links that are
>> easy to remove. I wipe the thing with a dry rag to get off
>> surface dirt. Then put it in a bottle that has mineral
>> spirits in it. Cap the bottle, shake hard. Then fish the
>> chain out and put it into a second bottle with mineral
>> spirts and motor oil. Cap the bottle, shake hard. Then
>> fish it out, wipe it off. Works great.
>>
>> When I'm in a hurry I'll skip the bottles and do it
>> Zinn-style. But those two bottles sit ready to use and
>> work fast too.

>
>
>Sounds like a good idea. I assume you use the oil/spirits mix
>for lubrication. How much oil do you use?


I think it's about 2 parts spirits and 1 part oil.

JT

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M

Michael Halliwell

Guest
Owen Pope wrote:
> I was reading the VELONEWS website a few days ago, and I ran
> across this article by Lennard Zinn:
> http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/10011.0.html
>
> In it he dispenses his advice on caring for chains, including
> cleaning.
> Zinn recommends simply wiping the chain off and re-lubing, as
> opposed to shaking the chain in solvent.
> The reasoning is that shaking in solvent will drive the gunk
> further into the chain than possible by wiping it down.
>
> Since this is directly contrary to what I have done (I shake
> in solvent), and since I trust the accumulated wisdom of
> R.B.T. more than I do Mr. Zinn, I thought I'd put this out for
> consideration.
>
> Also, he recommends using chain-length gauges, which I feel
> deserves mockery.
> So get to it!
>
> -Owen


Myself, I do a little more off-road work, so I usually have a pretty
dirty chain to start with (then again, because of what I put my chains
through, I only expect them to go 2-3000 km).

For me, I wipe off the worst of it then use a cleaning box on it until
it doesn't readily change the solvent color to black. After that, I
wipe it down again, let it stand a few minutes, wipe again with a clean
cloth and then lube it up. I will usually take a cleaning brush to the
chainrings and casette at the same time to get the gunk out of there too.

I think everyone has their own way of doing it....and personally, I
don't see that there is really a worng or right way, as long as the gunk
gets out and lube gets in.

Michael Halliwell
 
S

Sandy

Guest
RonSonic a écrit :
> On 3 Jul 2006 16:51:27 GMT, Owen Pope <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> RonSonic <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:p[email protected]:
>>
>>
>>> On 3 Jul 2006 14:58:53 GMT, Owen Pope <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I was reading the VELONEWS website a few days ago, and I
>>>> ran across this article by Lennard Zinn:
>>>> http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/10011.0.html
>>>>
>>>> In it he dispenses his advice on caring for chains,
>>>> including cleaning.
>>>> Zinn recommends simply wiping the chain off and re-lubing,
>>>> as opposed to shaking the chain in solvent.
>>>> The reasoning is that shaking in solvent will drive the
>>>> gunk further into the chain than possible by wiping it
>>>> down.
>>>>
>>>> Since this is directly contrary to what I have done (I
>>>> shake in solvent), and since I trust the accumulated wisdom
>>>> of R.B.T. more than I do Mr. Zinn, I thought I'd put this
>>>> out for consideration.
>>>>
>>> Whatev. That is the answer to chain cleaning controversy.
>>> Cleaner is better than dirtier. How thorough you need to
>>> be depends on how ready you are to replace them. How do you
>>> clean them? However makes sense to you.
>>>

>> Right. Well, I have too much time on my hands, and I would
>> like to know the cleanest method.
>>

>
> However makes sense to you.
>
>
>>>> Also, he recommends using chain-length gauges, which I feel
>>>> deserves mockery.
>>>>
>>> What's wrong with them. I don't use one, but then I don't
>>> throw bikes on a stand and work on dozens of them a day. If
>>> I did, then it'd make sense to just hang a guage off the
>>> stand and not have to handle a scale, dirty chain and
>>> reading glasses all at the same time.
>>>

>> A scale? What would you use a scale for?
>>
>> I just think that it's easier to use a ruler or tape
>> measure,
>>

>
> Sure, use a ruler, not a scale. Whatever you do, don't use a scale.
>
>
>> especially for people who DON'T work in a shop, and
>> might like to limit their purchases of specialized equipment.
>> Hell, they might save enough time to be worth it in a shop.
>>

>
> Back under the bridge and thank you for playing.
>
> Ron
>

If only we had Harry back, with his waxed wife and chain, we could beat
the head covering thingie thread. BTW, since I cut it off with a
filter, tell me if it's still going for a universe record.

--

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
--
S'endormir au volant, c'est très dangereux.
S'endormir à vélo, c'est très rare.
S'endormir à pied, c'est très con.
- Geluck, P.
 
S

Smokey

Guest
Owen Pope wrote:
> I was reading the VELONEWS website a few days ago, and I ran
> across this article by Lennard Zinn:
> http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/10011.0.html
>
> In it he dispenses his advice on caring for chains, including
> cleaning.
> Zinn recommends simply wiping the chain off and re-lubing, as
> opposed to shaking the chain in solvent.
> The reasoning is that shaking in solvent will drive the gunk
> further into the chain than possible by wiping it down.
>
> Since this is directly contrary to what I have done (I shake
> in solvent), and since I trust the accumulated wisdom of
> R.B.T. more than I do Mr. Zinn, I thought I'd put this out for
> consideration.
>
> Also, he recommends using chain-length gauges, which I feel
> deserves mockery.
> So get to it!
>
> -Owen


I used to remove chains and shake them in solvent or use one of the
chain cleaning machines. Now I use Prolink without any other cleaning
procedure as it seems to do a good job of floating the dirt away. I
lube it after a ride, leave it on overnight, then wipe all excess away.
I only lube when the chain is making noise or the shifting indicates
it's time for a lubing. I think most people over-lube their chains and
shorten their life with the dirt the excess lube attracts. I've got one
of the Park chain gauges, which only cost $10, is easier and more
accurate than measuring, and has paid for itself in longer cassette
life. If that deserves mockery, then so be it!

Smokey
 
M

MykalCrooks

Guest
"Owen Pope" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> A scale? What would you use a scale for?
>
> I just think that it's easier to use a ruler or tape
> measure...


Meaning of SCALE: an indicator having a graduated sequence of marks

In a year when protractors and T-squares were upon the drafting tables in
highschool, our instructor would would protest with a loud slap of a
yardstick upon the desk whenever a student erroneously called a scale a
ruler.

mC
 
O

Owen Pope

Guest
"Leo Lichtman" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> "Owen Pope" wrote: A scale? What would you use a scale
> for? (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> I'll bet you think he meant weigh the chain. Well, I think
> he meant measure the chain.


I did. I have never heard scale used like that before.
 
O

Owen Pope

Guest
[email protected] wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Owen Pope writes:


<other stuff>

>> So get to it!

>
> Are you trying to make this look lke a troll with that
> comment? It just might be, considering the opening line of
> the referenced FAQ.


That was certainly not my intention, though it seems to be a
logical conclusion.

Oh well. I guess I'll go work on my tact.


-Owen
 
O

Owen Pope

Guest
Sandy <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> If only we had Harry back, with his waxed wife and chain,
> we could beat the head covering thingie thread. BTW, since
> I cut it off with a filter, tell me if it's still going for
> a universe record.


Is chain-waxing that controversial?
I used to do it, and was pleased with the results, but
eventually I got tired of the hassle.
Seems straigtforward enough to me.


-Owen
 
N

Neil Brooks

Guest
On 3 Jul 2006 20:20:37 GMT, Owen Pope <[email protected]> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> Owen Pope writes:

>
><other stuff>
>
>>> So get to it!

>>
>> Are you trying to make this look lke a troll with that
>> comment? It just might be, considering the opening line of
>> the referenced FAQ.

>
>That was certainly not my intention, though it seems to be a
>logical conclusion.
>
>Oh well. I guess I'll go work on my tact.
>
>
>-Owen


FWIW, while I have no reason to doubt your sincerity, you may want to
simply search the forum for threads about chain cleaning and
lubrication.

It's difficult to imagine that there are many opinions that have NOT
been previously represented.

And ... FWIW ... I use WD-40 as a spray degreaser (with a rag backing
the chain), then lube with a Mobil 1/Mineral spirits home brew AFTER a
ride (to allow the spirits to evap and leave the M1 behind).

Works just fine. Are there better ways? Maybe, but *I* don't really
care ;-)
 
L

Leo Lichtman

Guest
"MykalCrooks" wrote: (clip) In a year when protractors and T-squares were
upon the drafting tables in highschool, our instructor would would protest
with a loud slap of a yardstick upon the desk whenever a student erroneously
called a scale a ruler.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
See, the thing is, a ruler is a straightedge used for ruling, or drawing
lines. You could really get the drafting instructor would be really PO'd if
he found you drawing lines with a scale. That would be like stirring paint
with a screwdriver, or prying lids with a knife. What REALLY got him mad,
though, was the kid who squeezed the bow compass shut, and they let it fly
open, firing the nut across the room.