Chain cleaning controversy!

[Dan Burkhart]

I was reading the VELONEWS website a few days ago, and I ran
across this article by Lennard Zinn:
http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/10011.0.html

In it he dispenses his advice on caring for chains, including
cleaning.
Zinn recommends simply wiping the chain off and re-lubing, as
opposed to shaking the chain in solvent.
The reasoning is that shaking in solvent will drive the gunk
further into the chain than possible by wiping it down.

Since this is directly contrary to what I have done (I shake
in solvent), and since I trust the accumulated wisdom of
R.B.T. more than I do Mr. Zinn, I thought I'd put this out for
consideration.

Also, he recommends using chain-length gauges, which I feel
deserves mockery.
So get to it!

-Owen

I know this topic is one of the hot buttons here and I usually stay out of it, but I have an extra 2 cents on me today, so here it is.
I had no idea how much grit can be harboured in chains and cogs until I invested in an ultrasonic cleaner. The chains and cogs of all the bikes we service get the treatment and once a week, the solvent bath is changed. You would not beleive, (OK, maybe you would) the pile of sand and crud that accumulates in the bottom of the tank. I have a hard time convincing myself that leaving that grit in the chain is a good thing.
However, as others have pointed out, at the price of replacement chains, how much of your time are you willing to devote to chain cleaning?

Dan

 

[Ludmila Borgschatz-Thudpucker, MD]

"Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Yes, I already knew that word (came up in here, IIRC); had just never
> heard of "concatenary". Perhaps he concocted the word between the two
> (catenary and concatenate)?
>
> Concoctenary?!? <eg>

He confabulated the word. He conflated concatenate and caternary.

 

[Neil Brooks]

Neil Brooks writes:

>Oil flows and prefers small gaps, called capillaries. Grit is a solid
>and does not flow... unless oil is added to make it enter inside the
>chain links to get on the link pins and wear them out.
>
>> Just my $0.02. Academic, too. I've only cleaned off the bike a
>> time or two. Even with quick-links, more work than I wanted to do.

Jobst Brandt responded:

>So don't tell others how the don't care lazy guy does it. That
>doesn't help folks who want to know what causes chain wear and how to
>clean a chain.

I may no longer change the oil on my car for myself, but that doesn't
mean that I don't have an informed opinion about it.

In this particular case, after watching all of this back-and-forth for
*years*, I have a good deal of info (having read your treatise in the
FAQ way back when, arguably, I have the better part of YOUR knowledge
as well).

It's quite reasonable to say, and to advocate as a position, that I
(and, it seems, quite a few others) have made a cost-benefit decision
that off-bike cleaning doesn't offer enough incremental benefit for
us.

What I would say that you likely do NOT know is just how much
incremental wear *I* am subjecting my chain to by using *my* approach.
If, for example, I am getting 80% of the benefit of, say, an off-bike,
ultrasonic cleaning with 25% of the time and effort, then "my"
approach may be of interest to others.

So there ;-)

 

[Friday]

Leo Lichtman wrote:
> "MykalCrooks" wrote: (clip) In a year when protractors and T-squares were
> upon the drafting tables in highschool, our instructor would would protest
> with a loud slap of a yardstick upon the desk whenever a student erroneously
> called a scale a ruler.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> See, the thing is, a ruler is a straightedge used for ruling, or drawing
> lines. You could really get the drafting instructor would be really PO'd if
> he found you drawing lines with a scale. That would be like stirring paint
> with a screwdriver, or prying lids with a knife. What REALLY got him mad,
> though, was the kid who squeezed the bow compass shut, and they let it fly
> open, firing the nut across the room.
>
>

Since CAD drawing came in the only instrument used is a keyboard. You
guys are obviously really old.


Friday

 

[Ron Ruff]

Neil Brooks wrote:
> If, for example, I am getting 80% of the benefit of, say, an off-bike,
> ultrasonic cleaning with 25% of the time and effort, then "my"
> approach may be of interest to others.

An important point that rarely gets addressed... and a big reason IMO
why this always devolves into a religious argument. I don't know how
much (if any) extra life I can could get out of a chain (and cogs) by
regular removal and thorough cleaning. What I do know is that my cheap
chains regularly last more than 5,000 miles in fairly harsh conditions,
with minimal work or expense... and that is good enough for me. The
chain is pretty clean and smells lemony, too...

For various reasons some persons would prefer the thorough cleaning
even if it *didn't* result in longer chain life... but many others
would rather not spend any more time than necessary fiddling with it.

 

[Espressopithecus (Java Man)]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> I know this topic is one of the hot buttons here and I usually stay out
> of it, but I have an extra 2 cents on me today, so here it is.

Thanks, and here's mine.

I don't clean my chain until it squeaks enough to drown out the music
playing on my Ipod. I fill my helmet with solvent, swish the chain in
it, hang it out to dry, then finish by spraying it with WD40. I do all
this while tying and soldering my spokes so my wheels hang straight
forever. I'm always careful to avoid getting grease on the chain -- I
reserve the grease for installing cranks. ;-)

Rick No-name

 

[Bill Sornson]

Ludmila Borgschatz-Thudpucker, MD wrote:
> "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Yes, I already knew that word (came up in here, IIRC); had just never
>> heard of "concatenary". Perhaps he concocted the word between the
>> two (catenary and concatenate)?
>>
>> Concoctenary?!? <eg>

> He confabulated the word. He conflated concatenate and caternary.

Confirmationary concoctination! (And not just coincidentiarily, either.)

 

[Leo Lichtman]

"Friday" wrote: Since CAD drawing came in the only instrument used is a
keyboard. You guys are obviously really old.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I may be older than you, but I wouldn't attempt CAD drawing without a mouse.

 

[RonSonic]

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 22:16:35 GMT, Friday <[email protected]> wrote:

>Leo Lichtman wrote:
>> "MykalCrooks" wrote: (clip) In a year when protractors and T-squares were
>> upon the drafting tables in highschool, our instructor would would protest
>> with a loud slap of a yardstick upon the desk whenever a student erroneously
>> called a scale a ruler.
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> See, the thing is, a ruler is a straightedge used for ruling, or drawing
>> lines. You could really get the drafting instructor would be really PO'd if
>> he found you drawing lines with a scale. That would be like stirring paint
>> with a screwdriver, or prying lids with a knife. What REALLY got him mad,
>> though, was the kid who squeezed the bow compass shut, and they let it fly
>> open, firing the nut across the room.
>>
>>
>
>Since CAD drawing came in the only instrument used is a keyboard. You
>guys are obviously really old.

I am presently learning to do schematic capture and PCB design on these
confangled contraptions. I tell ya, for the simple stuff I design and build,
tape and ink on mylar film would be so much easier. Oh well, it isn't easier for
the board houses so I get a new learning curve to climb.

Ron

 

[damyth]

Dan Burkhart wrote:
- snipped -
> However, as others have pointed out, at the price of replacement
> chains, how much of your time are you willing to devote to chain
> cleaning?
>
> Dan
>
>
> --
> Dan Burkhart


There is no need to spend any "additional" time to cleaning chains. I
have two chains for each bike I have. The "dirty" chain goes in the
solvent bottle, and the "newer" chain gets put on the bike. The dirty
chain gets fished out of the solvent bottle after a day or so, and by
the time the "newer" chain becomes dirty, the now clean (older) chain
goes back on the bike.

Round robin both chains until it's time to replace both due to wear.

In addition, with the advent of rear clusters more than 8 spds, I think
chains are becoming more expensive. I still recall the good old days
where even the "best" chain in the Sedisport line-up could be had for a
song. Now even the most mundane "black" SRAM 9 speed chain easily
costs over $20, never mind the "fancier" ones.

 

[Leo Lichtman]

"damyth" wrote: (clip) The dirty chain gets fished out of the solvent
bottle after a day or so, and by the time the "newer" chain becomes dirty,
the now clean (older) chain goes back on the bike. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The part where you remove the chain from the solvent and let it air-dry for
weeks(?) is important--it allows the solvent to evaporate from inside the
links, helping the oil penetrate when it is applied.

Sorni, this is an example of what I consider appropriate clipping. Do you
have a problem with it?

 

[bill]

RonSonic wrote:
> On 3 Jul 2006 16:51:27 GMT, Owen Pope <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >RonSonic <[email protected]> wrote in
> >news[email protected]:
> >
> >> On 3 Jul 2006 14:58:53 GMT, Owen Pope <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>I was reading the VELONEWS website a few days ago, and I
> >>>ran across this article by Lennard Zinn:
> >>>http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/10011.0.html
> >>>
> >>>In it he dispenses his advice on caring for chains,
> >>>including cleaning.
> >>>Zinn recommends simply wiping the chain off and re-lubing,
> >>>as opposed to shaking the chain in solvent.
> >>>The reasoning is that shaking in solvent will drive the
> >>>gunk further into the chain than possible by wiping it
> >>>down.
> >>>
> >>>Since this is directly contrary to what I have done (I
> >>>shake in solvent), and since I trust the accumulated wisdom
> >>>of R.B.T. more than I do Mr. Zinn, I thought I'd put this
> >>>out for consideration.
> >>
> >> Whatev. That is the answer to chain cleaning controversy.
> >> Cleaner is better than dirtier. How thorough you need to
> >> be depends on how ready you are to replace them. How do you
> >> clean them? However makes sense to you.
> >
> >Right. Well, I have too much time on my hands, and I would
> >like to know the cleanest method.
>
> However makes sense to you.
>
> >>>Also, he recommends using chain-length gauges, which I feel
> >>>deserves mockery.
> >>
> >> What's wrong with them. I don't use one, but then I don't
> >> throw bikes on a stand and work on dozens of them a day. If
> >> I did, then it'd make sense to just hang a guage off the
> >> stand and not have to handle a scale, dirty chain and
> >> reading glasses all at the same time.
> >
> >A scale? What would you use a scale for?
> >
> > I just think that it's easier to use a ruler or tape
> >measure,
>
> Sure, use a ruler, not a scale. Whatever you do, don't use a scale.

Ruler = a straight edge used for drawing a straight line. Sometimes
engraved with a scale for measuring.

Scale =

1. A stick of wood or other material engraved with linear divisions for
the puprose of measuring lengths or distances.
2. A device used for measuring force, viz "spring scale".

Balance = a device for measuring mass.

I say use a scale, or a gage. Rulers are for drawing

 

[bill]

Owen Pope wrote:
> I was reading the VELONEWS website a few days ago, and I ran
> across this article by Lennard Zinn:
> http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/10011.0.html
>
> In it he dispenses his advice on caring for chains, including
> cleaning.
> Zinn recommends simply wiping the chain off and re-lubing, as
> opposed to shaking the chain in solvent.
> The reasoning is that shaking in solvent will drive the gunk
> further into the chain than possible by wiping it down.
>
> Since this is directly contrary to what I have done (I shake
> in solvent), and since I trust the accumulated wisdom of
> R.B.T. more than I do Mr. Zinn, I thought I'd put this out for
> consideration.
>
> Also, he recommends using chain-length gauges, which I feel
> deserves mockery.
> So get to it!
>

Oh no, here we go again!.

I say use the chain without ever lubing. Buy new one when it squeaks.
Sure it's expensive, but it sure beats having black marks on your hands
;-)

 

[Bill Sornson]

Leo Lichtman wrote:

> "damyth" wrote: (clip) The dirty chain gets fished out of the
> solvent bottle after a day or so, and by the time the "newer" chain
> becomes dirty, the now clean (older) chain goes back on the bike.
> (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> The part where you remove the chain from the solvent and let it
> air-dry for weeks(?) is important--it allows the solvent to evaporate
> from inside the links, helping the oil penetrate when it is applied.
>
> Sorni, this is an example of what I consider appropriate clipping. Do you
> have a problem with it?

No, Leo. (I still don't get your strange quoting style, however.)

What I would have found...well, /curious/ would be if damyth had explained
his "air-drying methodology" and you had DELETED it and then ASKED about it
(like you did in those previous cases). That would just make no sense!

HTH, BS

 

[RonSonic]

On 5 Jul 2006 09:03:17 -0700, "bill" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Owen Pope wrote:
>> I was reading the VELONEWS website a few days ago, and I ran
>> across this article by Lennard Zinn:
>> http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/10011.0.html
>>
>> In it he dispenses his advice on caring for chains, including
>> cleaning.
>> Zinn recommends simply wiping the chain off and re-lubing, as
>> opposed to shaking the chain in solvent.
>> The reasoning is that shaking in solvent will drive the gunk
>> further into the chain than possible by wiping it down.
>>
>> Since this is directly contrary to what I have done (I shake
>> in solvent), and since I trust the accumulated wisdom of
>> R.B.T. more than I do Mr. Zinn, I thought I'd put this out for
>> consideration.
>>
>> Also, he recommends using chain-length gauges, which I feel
>> deserves mockery.
>> So get to it!
>>
>
>Oh no, here we go again!.
>
>I say use the chain without ever lubing. Buy new one when it squeaks.
>Sure it's expensive, but it sure beats having black marks on your hands
>;-)

No staying up nights wondering if perhaps your chain couldn't be just a little
cleaner.

Ron