Chain keeps falling off on Gary Fisher Cake 2 DLX

[Greg Tokarski]

Hi all.

I got GaryFisher Cake 2dlx like 3 months ago. Well, I did
not have a chance to ride it much for the 1st month, but by
now I am having all sorts of problems with shifting and
chain falling off. The chain usually falls off when climbing
and when I hit some kind of little bump... Oh, and I have to
be on the mid or smallest ring in the front - which of
course is always the case while climbing. Sometimes the
chain falls off (always towards the frame - left, which I am
sure everybody guessed) when I am going down hill - usually
when I am not pedaling, but just going down and hit a bump.
I am pretty sure it's the full suspension that's doing it.

At this point the place I got the bike at worked with me a
lot, but without actually one of them taking the bike on the
trail I doubt if they figure it out. We just replaced front
derailleur with XT (used to be LX) - that certainly improved
shifting (had problems shifting to the bigger ring on the
front) and adjusting tension of the chain (by shortening it
and adjusting the spring) helped a lot.. but.. still I loose
the chain, useally when it's really very inconvenient.

I do realize that my skill is maybe not that great, but if I
pay that kind of $ for a bike, it certainly should not have
issues that my old (8+ yrs) Novara did not have.

Does anyone have ideas or suggestion? Could there be an
actual issue with this specific GF bike? I did not talk to
GF people yet.. I think I might have to as well, but I think
you pple may have a lot of good input too.

Any ideas will be very much appreciated.

Thx.

Greg T.

[email protected]

 

[D T W .../\\...]

"Greg Tokarski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all.
>
> I got GaryFisher Cake 2dlx like 3 months ago. Well, I did
> not have a chance to ride it much for the 1st month, but
> by now I am having all sorts of problems with shifting and
> chain falling off.

snip
>
> Does anyone have ideas or suggestion? Could there be an
> actual issue with this specific GF bike? I did not talk to
> GF people yet.. I think I might have to as well, but I
> think you pple may have a lot of good input too.
>
> Any ideas will be very much appreciated.
>
> Thx. Greg T.
>

Keeping the cogs and rings clean and the chain properly
lubed is a priority with my Klein Adept.

It has a similar design and is prone to chain suck.

- DTW .../\.../\.../\...

I've spent most of my money on mountain biking and
windsurfing. The rest I've just wasted.

 

[Chris]

"Greg Tokarski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all.
>
> I got GaryFisher Cake 2dlx like 3 months ago. Well, I did
> not have a chance to ride it much for the 1st month, but
> by now I am having all sorts of problems with shifting and
> chain falling off. The chain usually falls off when
> climbing and when I hit some kind of little bump... Oh,
> and I have to be on the mid or smallest ring in the front
> - which of course is always the case while climbing.
> Sometimes the chain falls off (always towards the frame -
> left, which I am sure everybody guessed) when I am going
> down hill - usually when I am not pedaling, but just going
> down and hit a bump. I am pretty sure it's the full
> suspension that's doing it.
>
> At this point the place I got the bike at worked with me a
> lot, but without actually one of them taking the bike on
> the trail I doubt if they figure it out. We just replaced
> front derailleur with XT (used to be LX) - that certainly
> improved shifting (had problems shifting to the bigger
> ring on the front) and adjusting tension of the chain (by
> shortening it and adjusting the spring) helped a lot..
> but.. still I loose the chain, useally when it's really
> very inconvenient.
>
> I do realize that my skill is maybe not that great, but if
> I pay that kind of $ for a bike, it certainly should not
> have issues that my old (8+ yrs) Novara did not have.
>
> Does anyone have ideas or suggestion? Could there be an
> actual issue with this specific GF bike? I did not talk to
> GF people yet.. I think I might have to as well, but I
> think you pple may have a lot of good input too.
>
> Any ideas will be very much appreciated.
>

Like others have said, it's mostly because of the
craptacular Bontrager crank. It's also partially a problem
in the Cake's design - they've not proven to be the best
bikes. You can get a RaceFace Prodigy model for like $70 on
Nashbar now - you won't get any better for under $100.

That being said, don't let this get you down...especially
after you hear all the anti-GF propaganda that's sure to
come your way. You can still totally ride that bike for
years and enjoy every bit of it.

Chris

 

[Bomba]

On Mon, 17 May 2004 14:30:58 -0700, Greg Tokarski wrote:

> Hi all.
>
> I got GaryFisher Cake 2dlx like 3 months ago. Well, I did
> not have a chance to ride it much for the 1st month, but
> by now I am having all sorts of problems with shifting and
> chain falling off. The chain usually falls off when
> climbing and when I hit some kind of little bump... Oh,
> and I have to be on the mid or smallest ring in the front
> - which of course is always the case while climbing.
> Sometimes the chain falls off (always towards the frame -
> left, which I am sure everybody guessed) when I am going
> down hill - usually when I am not pedaling, but just going
> down and hit a bump. I am pretty sure it's the full
> suspension that's doing it.

Unlike what others have told you, this is not a chainsuck
issue and is unlikely to have anything to do with your
crankset. It's a knee-jerk thing: Gary Fisher bike + chain
issues = chainsuck caused by Bontrager cranks.

The symptoms you describe are usually caused by having too
much chain. This may be compounded when the suspension
compresses and gives you even more slack.

Firstly, I would check the length of your chain - it sounds
like it may be too long. Wrap the chain round the largest
ring at the front and the largest at the rear and pull the
derailleur tight. If you can remove links then do so.

Secondly, check there are no bent links in the chain or
bent teeth on the chainrings that could be knocking the
chain off.

And finally, adjust your technique for the downhills. The
less chain on the rings / cogs at any one time means more
chain slack, less tension and the more likely the chain is
to jump off. So, don't descend in the small ring, use the
large ring if possible.

--
a.m-b FAQ: http://www.j-harris.net/bike/ambfaq.htm

b.bmx FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/bmx_faq.htm

 

[Greg Tokarski]

Thx for all the replies.

I've done much more research.. I wish I've done it right
before buying the bike.. but then again, GF did feel
right - I guess if I can resolve this issue I may be
happy after all...

Anyhow, on the web (and here) I found that replacing the
crankset may be the way to go.. I do have to say I do not
quite understand how that will resolve the problem.. but
obviously it might help. There's an antisuck device from GF,
but I've read it's pretty useless. I've also read somewhere
that just replacing the bottom bracket may help a lot and is
cheaper than replacing the whole crankset.... Personally, I
am noticing how the tentioner on the rear derailleur is
living the chain a bit loose after a bump.. I wonder if
maybe one with a better spring it'd do better by responding
a bit faster to loosing tention?

So.. if anyone has any thought on these issues, especially
with specific suggestions - like what sort of crankset or
whatever, may be worht investing into, I'd appreciate it. I
think I'll talk to the pple at the bike shop (again on
Wed... I am thinking about calling GF, but then again, I
wander what is the point anyhow. BTW the bike shop replaced
my front derailleur from LX to XT - that sure helped a lot
with shifting; but I still loose the chain from time to time
when I climb (and have a bump; or really crank to loosen the
load and shift to a lower gear for example)....

On a downhill I am learning to not go on the lowest front
chainring and I lost my chain on a downhill only 1ce since
the XT change.

Well, once again, any more ideas would be appreciated;
especially the specific ones I can bring up to either GF or
my bike store... (they gave me "lifetime of adjustment" with
a new bike... so far all of this has been adjustments to
make the bike work right...

[email protected]

 

[Tm]

"Greg Tokarski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thx for all the replies.
>
... I am thinking about calling GF,
> but then again, I wander what is the point anyhow.

I would make a free phone call before I spent any money on a
brand new bike.

Good Luck

 

[Zilla]

TM <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Greg Tokarski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Thx for all the replies.
>>
> ... I am thinking about calling GF,
>> but then again, I wander what is the point anyhow.
>
> I would make a free phone call before I spent any money on
> a brand new bike.
>
> Good Luck

Amen! My '01 Trek Fuel 90 had chain suck issues (new model
year) so I kept calling/e-mailing Trek, sending them links
from folks who had similar problems. They attributed it to a
long BB, so they changed mine from a 73x113mm to 73x110mm
under warranty. Never had chain suck for 2.5 years now...

--
- Zilla Cary, NC (Remove XSPAM)

 

[Per ElmsäTer]

Greg Tokarski wrote:
> Thx for all the replies.
>
> I've done much more research.. I wish I've done it right
> before buying the bike.. but then again, GF did feel
> right - I guess if I can resolve this issue I may be
> happy after all...
>
> Anyhow, on the web (and here) I found that replacing the
> crankset may be the way to go.. I do have to say I do not
> quite understand how that will resolve the problem.. but
> obviously it might help.

Read Bombas reply again. You don't have any chainsuck
problems, at least not that you have described.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

[nuker]

i dont' have the chain falling off issue, but i have chainsuck problems. it often happens shifting to the small ring up front. and near the end of my ride...typically when things are a bit dirty.

that space between the crank and the swingarm is so small that I can't believe that a chain can get through there. well, my friends, it can, and it takes a whole lot of aluminum with it.

my swingarm is gouged to hell from 6 instances of chain suck. that's 12 passes of my chain between the crank and swingarm. it's killer.

i replaced the crank to xt and even had a new chain put on cuz the last chainsuck destroyed my chain by bending a link.

since then, i've had 2 more incidences of chainsuck. i'm sure there's more to come, but i have been assured by my bike shop and fisher that my swing arm will be replaced under warranty should this affect the structural integrity of the swingarm.

at this rate, it won't be long until i get a replacement.

 

[Per ElmsäTer]

nuker wrote:
> i dont' have the chain falling off issue, but i have
> chainsuck problems. it often happens shifting to the small
> ring up front. and near the end of my ride...typically
> when things are a bit dirty.

I noticed that my chainsuck problems were due to some grades
on the small chainring. I could feel them when I ran my
fingers around the chairing and solved the problem with a
round file and some sandpaper. No chainsuck since then.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

[Zilla]

nuker <[email protected]> wrote:
> i dont' have the chain falling off issue, but i have
> chainsuck problems. it often happens shifting to the small
> ring up front. and near the end of my ride...typically
> when things are a bit dirty.
>
> that space between the crank and the swingarm is so small
> that I can't believe that a chain can get through there.
> well, my friends, it can, and it takes a whole lot of
> aluminum with it.
>
> my swingarm is gouged to hell from 6 instances of chain
> suck. that's 12 passes of my chain between the crank and
> swingarm. it's killer.
>
> i replaced the crank to xt and even had a new chain
> put on cuz the last chainsuck destroyed my chain by
> bending a link.
>
> since then, i've had 2 more incidences of chainsuck. i'm
> sure there's more to come, but i have been assured by my
> bike shop and fisher that my swing arm will be replaced
> under warranty should this affect the structural integrity
> of the swingarm.
>
> at this rate, it won't be long until i get a replacement.
>
>
>> mad:
>
>
>
> --

Have you contacted GF on this issue?

--
- Zilla Cary, NC (Remove XSPAM)

 

[Chris]

"nuker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> i dont' have the chain falling off issue, but i have
> chainsuck problems. it often happens shifting to the small
> ring up front. and near the end of my ride...typically
> when things are a bit dirty.
>
> that space between the crank and the swingarm is so small
> that I can't believe that a chain can get through there.
> well, my friends, it can, and it takes a whole lot of
> aluminum with it.
>
> my swingarm is gouged to hell from 6 instances of chain
> suck. that's 12 passes of my chain between the crank and
> swingarm. it's killer.
>
> i replaced the crank to xt and even had a new chain
> put on cuz the last chainsuck destroyed my chain by
> bending a link.
>
> since then, i've had 2 more incidences of chainsuck. i'm
> sure there's more to come, but i have been assured by my
> bike shop and fisher that my swing arm will be replaced
> under warranty should this affect the structural integrity
> of the swingarm.
>
> at this rate, it won't be long until i get a replacement.
>
>
>

My '02 Sugar used to do the same thing - chain comes up from
the bottom-back of the chainrings, wedges between the stay
and the ring, and thoroughly pisses me off. One day, amid a
flurry of upgrades, I switched the Bontrager cranks and LX
bb for Race Face parts. Also, I switched the front
derailleur to XTR. Since then, not one chainsuck.

Who knows why. I think I got the chainline a little farther
out - shifting was better than ever though. There is a nice
gouge on the swingarm from the couple 'o chainsucks,
though. No big deal for me; it's a mountain bike, not a
piece of art.

FWIW, everyone I know that gets rid of the Bontrager stuff
finds their problem solved. Maybe your setup is a bit off,
like mine was. Has your LBS checked the chainline?

Chris

 

[nuker]

i've brought it in a few times and they are amazed at the damage it causes. they contacted GF for me and i will be taken care of under warranty. it's just a matter of how long i want to wait to get a new swing arm.

perhaps for '05 they will have solved the problem. if that is the case, my LBS says they will replace my swingarm with the '05.

if the bike changes beyond the swingarm, then i'm replacing it with the '04, and selling it so i can buy a (hopefully fixed) '05 cake. i like the bike. it's just that chainsuck driving me nuts!

 

[Ken in KC]

Originally posted by nuker
i've brought it in a few times and they are amazed at the damage it causes. they contacted GF for me and i will be taken care of under warranty. it's just a matter of how long i want to wait to get a new swing arm.

perhaps for '05 they will have solved the problem. if that is the case, my LBS says they will replace my swingarm with the '05.

if the bike changes beyond the swingarm, then i'm replacing it with the '04, and selling it so i can buy a (hopefully fixed) '05 cake. i like the bike. it's just that chainsuck driving me nuts!

As many have mentioned, what you're experiencing is specifically not chainsuck. It may be an alignment problem, it may be that you're chain is still too long. It may be that you didn't and still don't have your front DR adjusted properly but you are not chain sucking.

Ken