Chain lube comparison

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Ken C. M., Feb 27, 2006.

  1. Ken C. M.

    Ken C. M. Guest

    I just did a little test last week. Here is what I did:

    1) Used two bikes
    2) Bike A I used a Teflon based tube call it PED. Bike B I used a wax
    based cleaner lube call it RRL.
    3) Rode both bikes a similar number of miles.
    4) Rode both under similar conditions.

    Here is my opinion of the results. The PED Teflon based lube is not
    "extra dry" as the maker claims. It attracts and holds on to far to much
    dust and dirt. The RRL cleaner lube does not attract or hold dirt and
    dust nearly as much as the PED Teflon lube. I back pedaled the chains
    through a paper towel between rides, the Teflon lube left more grime on
    the paper towel than the wax cleaner lube. At the end of the week I
    cleaned the derailers and found that the Teflon lube was much harder to
    clean than the wax cleaner lube.

    My opinion: Teflon lubes might be suitable for other conditions, however
    in dry areas / conditions the wax based lube is clearly a better choice.
    This is just my opinion however.

    Ken
    --
    You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
    having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

    Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/
     
    Tags:


  2. Leo Lichtman

    Leo Lichtman Guest

    "Ken C. M." wrote: (clip) My opinion: Teflon lubes might be suitable for
    other conditions, however in dry areas / conditions the wax based lube is
    clearly a better choice. (clip)
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Ken, if I read your post correctly, you compared one teflon lube to one
    wax-based lube. While I think your method of comparison has some validity,
    I also think you over-generalized by saying "Teflon lubes may be suitable
    for other conditions...". "Teflon lubes" encompases a large number of
    products, and your comparison was based on only one.

    Further, I am not convinced that an accumulation of oily or waxy dirt on the
    outside of a chain is particularly harmful. The area of a chain that
    carries load, and that wears, is the inside contact of the rollers to the
    pins, and the outside contact of the rollers with the teeth. Do we know
    whether the two types of lube you compared differ in the accumulation of
    dirt in those two areas?
     
  3. Ken C. M.

    Ken C. M. Guest

    Leo Lichtman wrote:
    > "Ken C. M." wrote: (clip) My opinion: Teflon lubes might be suitable for
    > other conditions, however in dry areas / conditions the wax based lube is
    > clearly a better choice. (clip)
    > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    > Ken, if I read your post correctly, you compared one teflon lube to one
    > wax-based lube. While I think your method of comparison has some validity,
    > I also think you over-generalized by saying "Teflon lubes may be suitable
    > for other conditions...". "Teflon lubes" encompases a large number of
    > products, and your comparison was based on only one.
    >

    Very true, perhaps further testing would produce more / better results.
    Perhaps if I had more bikes / riders that could all ride similar number
    of miles under similar conditions the results could / would be more
    accurate.

    > Further, I am not convinced that an accumulation of oily or waxy dirt on the
    > outside of a chain is particularly harmful. The area of a chain that
    > carries load, and that wears, is the inside contact of the rollers to the
    > pins, and the outside contact of the rollers with the teeth. Do we know
    > whether the two types of lube you compared differ in the accumulation of
    > dirt in those two areas?
    >
    >

    Again you are right of course, but in my opinion if the wax cleaner lube
    is collection less grime on the outside of the chain, it is probably
    collecting less on the more critical parts of the chain as well. In my
    opinion.

    Ken
    --
    You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
    having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

    Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/
     
  4. landotter

    landotter Guest

    If you scrub your chain dry after letting the teflon lube's carrier
    evaporate, it's extremely clean.

    It's kind of a yawn issue though. People spend way too much time
    obsessing over their chains. Clean it, lube it, wipe the outside dry,
    then get on with your life.
     
  5. SMS

    SMS Guest

    Ken C. M. wrote:

    > Again you are right of course, but in my opinion if the wax cleaner lube
    > is collection less grime on the outside of the chain, it is probably
    > collecting less on the more critical parts of the chain as well. In my
    > opinion.


    The real issue is how well the wax based lube is actually lubricating.
    Hot waxing chains is ineffective in terms of lubrication, even though
    the chain remains clean.

    What else is in the wax cleaner lube? Does it re-flow after it's quickly
    scraped away by the links and rollers moving against each other?

    The crux of the chain lube debate seems to be centered around whether a
    clean chain that isn't lubricated is better than a properly lubricated
    chain that attracts dirt to the chain.

    Steve
    "http://bicyclechain.info/"
     
  6. Ken C. M.

    Ken C. M. Guest

    landotter wrote:
    > If you scrub your chain dry after letting the teflon lube's carrier
    > evaporate, it's extremely clean.
    >

    If you mean wiping the outside of the chain after letting the carrier
    evaporate, this was part of my method.

    > It's kind of a yawn issue though. People spend way too much time
    > obsessing over their chains. Clean it, lube it, wipe the outside dry,
    > then get on with your life.
    >

    Right you are. But this was just a test to compare what I had been using
    (PED) and a bottle of some stuff (RRL) that was given to me by the owner
    of the shop where I bought my 'bent.

    Ken (O.C.D.) M.
    --
    You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
    having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

    Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/
     
  7. Ken C. M.

    Ken C. M. Guest

    SMS wrote:
    > Ken C. M. wrote:
    >
    >> Again you are right of course, but in my opinion if the wax cleaner
    >> lube is collection less grime on the outside of the chain, it is
    >> probably collecting less on the more critical parts of the chain as
    >> well. In my opinion.

    >
    >
    > The real issue is how well the wax based lube is actually lubricating.
    > Hot waxing chains is ineffective in terms of lubrication, even though
    > the chain remains clean.
    >

    Well lube threads seem to take on a life of thier own here. Everyone has
    a favorite. Everyone thinks one type is better than another. The truth
    is chains are a consumable.

    > What else is in the wax cleaner lube? Does it re-flow after it's quickly
    > scraped away by the links and rollers moving against each other?
    >

    Well I am not on the inside of the formula of RRL, so I do not know what
    else is in there.

    > The crux of the chain lube debate seems to be centered around whether a
    > clean chain that isn't lubricated is better than a properly lubricated
    > chain that attracts dirt to the chain.
    >

    So is it better to lube or not to lube, that is the question. I say lube
    with a dry wax type lube. Just my 2 cents.

    Ken
    --
    You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
    having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

    Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/
     
  8. Pat Lamb

    Pat Lamb Guest

    SMS wrote:
    >
    > What else is in the wax cleaner lube? Does it re-flow after it's quickly
    > scraped away by the links and rollers moving against each other?
    >
    > The crux of the chain lube debate seems to be centered around whether a
    > clean chain that isn't lubricated is better than a properly lubricated
    > chain that attracts dirt to the chain.
    >
    > Steve
    > "http://bicyclechain.info/"


    Do you get your domains wholesale? Is it worth it to buy a new domain
    every time you get called on pompous pronouncements without anything to
    back them up?
     
  9. Ken C. M.

    Ken C. M. Guest

    SMS wrote:
    > Ken C. M. wrote:
    >
    >> Again you are right of course, but in my opinion if the wax cleaner
    >> lube is collection less grime on the outside of the chain, it is
    >> probably collecting less on the more critical parts of the chain as
    >> well. In my opinion.

    >
    >
    > The real issue is how well the wax based lube is actually lubricating.
    > Hot waxing chains is ineffective in terms of lubrication, even though
    > the chain remains clean.
    >
    > What else is in the wax cleaner lube? Does it re-flow after it's quickly
    > scraped away by the links and rollers moving against each other?
    >
    > The crux of the chain lube debate seems to be centered around whether a
    > clean chain that isn't lubricated is better than a properly lubricated
    > chain that attracts dirt to the chain.
    >
    > Steve
    > "http://bicyclechain.info/"

    I just looked at your method. Bar and chain oil?!? Well ok, I guess if
    it works for you. I tried synthetic two stroke oil and it was the worst
    stuff I ever tried on a chain.

    Ken
    --
    You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
    having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

    Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/
     
  10. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 14:52:10 -0500, "Ken C. M."
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I just looked at your method. Bar and chain oil?!? Well ok, I guess if
    >it works for you.


    That's what I started using after trying waxes. I found a gallon of
    the winter grade stuff. What I like about it is that it lasts a long
    time in this wet climate. About four times longer than wax in winter.
    The cassette and idler pulleys seem to get scummier but the
    lubrication keeps working. Chain saw bar oil is good stuff.
    --
    zk
     
  11. Ken C. M.

    Ken C. M. Guest

    Zoot Katz wrote:
    > On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 14:52:10 -0500, "Ken C. M."
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I just looked at your method. Bar and chain oil?!? Well ok, I guess if
    >>it works for you.

    >
    >
    > That's what I started using after trying waxes. I found a gallon of
    > the winter grade stuff. What I like about it is that it lasts a long
    > time in this wet climate. About four times longer than wax in winter.
    > The cassette and idler pulleys seem to get scummier but the
    > lubrication keeps working. Chain saw bar oil is good stuff.

    Well I guess it depends mostly on the conditions that you ride in. Here
    in mostly dry south Florida it's dry, except for when you get caught in
    a summer thunderstorm. So most of the time it is pretty dusty and all
    the wet type lubricants I have tried just get clogged with dust and dirt
    too quickly.

    Ken
    --
    You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
    having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

    Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/
     
  12. SMS

    SMS Guest

    Ken C. M. wrote:

    > I just looked at your method. Bar and chain oil?!? Well ok, I guess if
    > it works for you. I tried synthetic two stroke oil and it was the worst
    > stuff I ever tried on a chain.


    I don't use chainsaw oil, I use foaming chain lube. For those that
    remove their chain and soak it in oil, using chainsaw oil is about the
    best option.

    I strongly agree with the following statement, because it is based on
    factual information of the actual properties of the lubricant:

    "...motorcycle chain and chainsaw lubricants are better yet, because
    they have volatile solvents that allow good penetration for their
    relatively viscous lubricant. Paraffin (canning wax), although clean,
    works poorly because it is not mobile and cannot replenish the bearing
    surfaces once it has been displaced. This becomes apparent with any
    water that gets on the chain. It immediately squeaks."

    I've never used synthetic two-stroke oil, but if it's like most
    multi-weight motor oils, it's not suitable for chain lubrication.

    Steve
    "http://bicyclechain.info/"
     
  13. SMS

    SMS Guest

    Pat Lamb wrote:

    > Do you get your domains wholesale? Is it worth it to buy a new domain
    > every time you get called on pompous pronouncements without anything to
    > back them up?


    I finally put up the chain web site as a result of all the
    misinformation regarding waxing that has been popping up lately. If it
    can stop just a few people from irrational activities, then it's worth
    the $6, and the affiliate fees that are generated are usually sufficient
    to cover the small cost.

    What do you regard as pompous? The fact that I simply restate what
    nearly everyone already knows, that wax is ineffective as a lubricant?
     
  14. SMS

    SMS Guest

    Zoot Katz wrote:

    > That's what I started using after trying waxes. I found a gallon of
    > the winter grade stuff. What I like about it is that it lasts a long
    > time in this wet climate. About four times longer than wax in winter.
    > The cassette and idler pulleys seem to get scummier but the
    > lubrication keeps working. Chain saw bar oil is good stuff.


    It is unsurprising that the best lubricant for chains is a lubricant
    that is designed specifically for chains.

    The fact that it works well, and is very inexpensive are also positives.
    Why spend time and money using ineffective chain lubrication methods?
     
  15. Ken C. M.

    Ken C. M. Guest

    SMS wrote:
    > Ken C. M. wrote:
    >
    >> I just looked at your method. Bar and chain oil?!? Well ok, I guess if
    >> it works for you. I tried synthetic two stroke oil and it was the
    >> worst stuff I ever tried on a chain.

    >
    >
    > I don't use chainsaw oil, I use foaming chain lube. For those that
    > remove their chain and soak it in oil, using chainsaw oil is about the
    > best option.
    >
    > I strongly agree with the following statement, because it is based on
    > factual information of the actual properties of the lubricant:
    >
    > "...motorcycle chain and chainsaw lubricants are better yet, because
    > they have volatile solvents that allow good penetration for their
    > relatively viscous lubricant. Paraffin (canning wax), although clean,
    > works poorly because it is not mobile and cannot replenish the bearing
    > surfaces once it has been displaced. This becomes apparent with any
    > water that gets on the chain. It immediately squeaks."
    >
    > I've never used synthetic two-stroke oil, but if it's like most
    > multi-weight motor oils, it's not suitable for chain lubrication.
    >
    > Steve
    > "http://bicyclechain.info/"

    Perhaps your method may be worth trying, just as a test, but if it's
    like most of the other wet lubes I have tried it will get clogged to
    quickly. Just curious what part of the world do you live in? Whats the
    environment like? Wet? Dry? A good mix?

    Ken
    --
    You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
    having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

    Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/
     
  16. SMS

    SMS Guest

    Ken C. M. wrote:

    > Perhaps your method may be worth trying, just as a test, but if it's
    > like most of the other wet lubes I have tried it will get clogged to
    > quickly. Just curious what part of the world do you live in? Whats the
    > environment like? Wet? Dry? A good mix?


    Northern California. I spend very little time on chain maintenance.

    I probably clean the chains a few times a year, and lube them every
    month or so.

    I was amazed to see that there are still people doing hot waxing, so
    many years after it's been shown to be ineffective. The liquid stuff
    like White Lightning is at least quick, and as long as you re-apply
    often I guess it's got its benefits. I can't imagine bothering to
    re-lube as often as is suggested for the liquid wax products.
     
  17. Ken C. M. wrote:

    > Perhaps your method may be worth trying, just as a test, but if it's like
    > most of the other wet lubes I have tried it will get clogged to
    > quickly.


    When you say "clogged", are you talking about appearance, or is it causing
    functional problems? (Any you are wiping off excess lube, right?)

    --
    Benjamin Lewis
     
  18. landotter

    landotter Guest

    Ken C. M. wrote:
    > landotter wrote:
    > > If you scrub your chain dry after letting the teflon lube's carrier
    > > evaporate, it's extremely clean.
    > >

    > If you mean wiping the outside of the chain after letting the carrier
    > evaporate, this was part of my method.


    'zactly. I use nickel plated chains and scrub them with a terry cloth
    rag til they're dry and shiny.

    But as another mentioned: chains are a consumable, I mainly lube mine
    to keep it quiet, not to make it last longer.
     
  19. landotter

    landotter Guest

    SMS wrote:
    > Pat Lamb wrote:
    >
    > > Do you get your domains wholesale? Is it worth it to buy a new domain
    > > every time you get called on pompous pronouncements without anything to
    > > back them up?

    >
    > I finally put up the chain web site as a result of all the
    > misinformation regarding waxing that has been popping up lately.


    But all you've done is put up another collection of misinformation. I
    wouldn't call it pompous, and it's perhaps well intentioned--but
    otherwise pointless. You might as well be recommending Amour brand
    lard.
     
  20. Ken C. M.

    Ken C. M. Guest

    landotter wrote:
    > SMS wrote:
    >
    >>Pat Lamb wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Do you get your domains wholesale? Is it worth it to buy a new domain
    >>>every time you get called on pompous pronouncements without anything to
    >>>back them up?

    >>
    >>I finally put up the chain web site as a result of all the
    >>misinformation regarding waxing that has been popping up lately.

    >
    >
    > But all you've done is put up another collection of misinformation. I
    > wouldn't call it pompous, and it's perhaps well intentioned--but
    > otherwise pointless. You might as well be recommending Amour brand
    > lard.
    >

    Now now, I am SURE that chain lube has a higher degree of lubricity than
    Amour brand lard! Perharp not much but definately some.

    Ken
    --
    You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
    having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

    Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/
     
Loading...
Loading...