Chain lube comparison



SMS wrote:
> landotter wrote:
>
>> I guess I sounded a little antagonistic, and I don't mean to be. A lot
>> of your cleaning info is right on.
>
>
> I've long since stopped taking anything posted on Usenet personally. I
> know that when it comes to chain cleaning and lubrication, that many
> otherwise logical individuals don't look at the big picture.
>
>> But the lube you recommend is indeed chain lube, but it's for chains
>> where it's "flung off" and meant to be replenished frequently.
>
>
> It isn't flung off when it's used on a bicycle chain.
>
I don't know that it's flung off but the liquid seeps out of the side
plates pretty quickly.

Ken
--
You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/
 
Zoot Katz wrote:
> On 27 Feb 2006 19:10:33 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
>>Lots of lubes are "good." If someone wants to proclaim a certain lube
>>to be "best" they'd better provide data. Or at least, tack on "IMHO."
>>
>>Got any data?
>
>
> Boeing Boeshield T9 4 oz $ 4.99
> White Lightening 4 oz $ 3.99
> Phil Wood Tenacious Oil 4 oz $ 2.99
> Cling-Tuf Bar and Chain Oil, 128 oz $4.29
Well that data just proves one thing it's cheap stuff.

Ken
--
You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/
 
Matt O'Toole wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 18:39:44 -0500, Ken C. M. wrote:
>
>
>>Ah well from what little I know of northern Cali, it seems that it may
>>not be as dusty as south Florida.
>
>
> Maybe in a redwood forest, but most of CA has fine clay dirt that gets
> ground to a powder from trail traffic. In summer it's ankle
> deep in places, and like riding through tan flour. There is no harsher
> environment for a bicycle chain.
>
> After years of riding through this stuff, I've figured out there's little
> difference in what lube you use. The key is wiping the outside of the
> chain as clean as possible, before and after riding.
>
> Matt O.
Well wiping the outside is part of my routine, maybe not before and
after every ride but often enough to keep the outside clean.

Ken
--
You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/
 
Pat Lamb wrote:
> SMS wrote:
> >
> > What else is in the wax cleaner lube? Does it re-flow after it's quickly
> > scraped away by the links and rollers moving against each other?
> >
> > The crux of the chain lube debate seems to be centered around whether a
> > clean chain that isn't lubricated is better than a properly lubricated
> > chain that attracts dirt to the chain.
> >
> > Steve
> > "http://bicyclechain.info/"
>
> Do you get your domains wholesale? Is it worth it to buy a new domain
> every time you get called on pompous pronouncements without anything to
> back them up?


When your ego is much, much bigger than your brain, you bet it is!
 
Zoot Katz wrote:

>
> Bar-oil looks and acts like Phil's Tenacious Oil.
>


Funny thing about that, eh? Kinda like the uncanny similarity between
certain marine greases (e.g., LubriMatic) and Phil's Waterproof Grease.
I wonder what's going on??? You don't think.......
 
[email protected] wrote:
> SMS wrote:
> >
> > I strongly agree with the following statement, because it is based on
> > factual information of the actual properties of the lubricant:
> >
> > "...motorcycle chain and chainsaw lubricants are better yet, because
> > they have volatile solvents that allow good penetration for their
> > relatively viscous lubricant. Paraffin (canning wax), although clean,
> > works poorly because it is not mobile and cannot replenish the bearing
> > surfaces once it has been displaced. This becomes apparent with any
> > water that gets on the chain. It immediately squeaks."
>
> You strongly agree with that statement because that statement agrees
> with you. It's standard Scharf technique: quotations in place of
> data.
>


That "statement" has been lifted verbatim from the slowtwitch.com site,
which itself is pretty devoid of any data. So, Scharf concocts "his"
OSAF by quoting someone else's OSAF. Amazing.

slowtwitch.com on chains:

http://tinyurl.com/g9e8y


> >
> > I've never used synthetic two-stroke oil, but if it's like most
> > multi-weight motor oils, it's not suitable for chain lubrication.
>
> And you know that because of what data?
>
> IOW, you're still making pronouncements based on your personal opinion.
> On the subject of chain lube, everyone seems to have a personal
> opinion. Your declaring yourself to be an "expert" really, truly does
> _not_ make you more knowledgeable than anyone else. And neither does a
> hastily constructed web page!
>
> Let's have some data.
>
> - Frank Krygowski
 
Zoot Katz wrote:
> On 27 Feb 2006 19:10:33 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Lots of lubes are "good." If someone wants to proclaim a certain lube
>> to be "best" they'd better provide data. Or at least, tack on "IMHO."
>>
>> Got any data?
>
> Boeing Boeshield T9 4 oz $ 4.99
> White Lightening 4 oz $ 3.99
> Phil Wood Tenacious Oil 4 oz $ 2.99
> Cling-Tuf Bar and Chain Oil, 128 oz $4.29

OK, I'm convinced chainsaw oil is cheaper than any of the
bicycling-labeled oils. That's one of cleaner, better lubricating,
cheaper. Now anyone want to argue "Better"?

(I know, pick two...)

Pat
 
Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> Zoot Katz wrote:
>
>> Bar-oil looks and acts like Phil's Tenacious Oil.
>>
>
>
> Funny thing about that, eh? Kinda like the uncanny similarity between
> certain marine greases (e.g., LubriMatic) and Phil's Waterproof Grease.
> I wonder what's going on??? You don't think.......

Duh. Packaging is everything.
 
Ken C. M. wrote:
> landotter wrote:
> > Ken C. M. wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Now now, I am SURE that chain lube has a higher degree of lubricity than
> >>Amour brand lard! Perharp not much but definately some.
> >
> >
> >
> > I never said that the poster was endorsing it for bicycle use. It does,
> > however, make a damn nice pie crust. Try that with your wax lube.
> >
> Well I try to avoid things with lard. I would be more likely to use it
> on a bike chain.
>

>

Asides like this are why Usenet is the place it is...


I don't make pies often, and I don't eat a ton of meat--but I'll have
ya know that lard is almost tasteless, fairly low in cholesterol, has
no trans fat, and makes a flakey crust.

It's a sleeper fat.

\O/
 
landotter wrote:
> >
>
> >
>
> Asides like this are why Usenet is the place it is...
>
>
> I don't make pies often, and I don't eat a ton of meat--but I'll have
> ya know that lard is almost tasteless, fairly low in cholesterol, has
> no trans fat, and makes a flakey crust.
>
> It's a sleeper fat.
>
> \O/

Not sure if you are serious or not but check out articles like
http://www.manbir-online.com/nutrition/fats.1.htm
which quote results pretty different from what you suggest (for lard)
 
In article <[email protected]>,
landotter ([email protected]) wrote:
>
> Ken C. M. wrote:
> > landotter wrote:
> > > Ken C. M. wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>Now now, I am SURE that chain lube has a higher degree of lubricity than
> > >>Amour brand lard! Perharp not much but definately some.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I never said that the poster was endorsing it for bicycle use. It does,
> > > however, make a damn nice pie crust. Try that with your wax lube.
> > >
> > Well I try to avoid things with lard. I would be more likely to use it
> > on a bike chain.
> >
>
> >
>
> Asides like this are why Usenet is the place it is...
>
>
> I don't make pies often, and I don't eat a ton of meat--but I'll have
> ya know that lard is almost tasteless, fairly low in cholesterol, has
> no trans fat, and makes a flakey crust.
>
> It's a sleeper fat.

<URL:http://www.britishlard.co.uk/>

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
Never trust a man with more than one moustache.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"landotter" <[email protected]> writes:

>> Well I try to avoid things with lard. I would be more likely to use it
>> on a bike chain.
>>
>
>>
>
> Asides like this are why Usenet is the place it is...
>
>
> I don't make pies often, and I don't eat a ton of meat--but I'll have
> ya know that lard is almost tasteless, fairly low in cholesterol, has
> no trans fat, and makes a flakey crust.

IMO Crisco browns better. Crisco is also often used as a patch lubricant
with black powder firearms. Lard is not recommended for this application,
IIRC because it contains too much metal-eating salts.

I doubt either Crisco or lard would make a good chain lubricant,
but they might be useful for chain cleaning as per this old post:
http://tinyurl.com/jzvdv

If one goes this route, Crisco might be pareve and halal.
But using rats in such a manner would probably cancel that out.


cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
 
gds wrote:
> landotter wrote:
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > Asides like this are why Usenet is the place it is...
> >
> >
> > I don't make pies often, and I don't eat a ton of meat--but I'll have
> > ya know that lard is almost tasteless, fairly low in cholesterol, has
> > no trans fat, and makes a flakey crust.
> >
> > It's a sleeper fat.
> >
> > \O/
>
> Not sure if you are serious or not but check out articles like
> http://www.manbir-online.com/nutrition/fats.1.htm
> which quote results pretty different from what you suggest (for lard)

It's reasonably healthy, compared to stuff like beef fat, or palm oil.
I don't eat it but a couple times a year when I'm arsed to make a pie
crust though. LOL

A cup only has 65% of the USRDA of cholesterol.

http://www.calorie-count.com/calories/item/4002.html
 
"Bill Baka" wrote: (clip) soak it in gasoline, and then soak it in
something like 10W motor oil? (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The motor oil should be hot. Because, when you soak it in gasoline (or any
solvent,) you get penetration to the inside of the links. Then, when you
soak it in oil, you want to evaporate the solvent from inside the links.
Otherwise, the migration of the solvent out of the links, and the migration
of the oil into the links will be very slow. If the oil is hot, the solvent
will flash off, leaving the inside dry. That makes it easy for the oil to
be sucked in as the chain cools.

The use of heated oil also alows you to use a thicker oil, which will
lubricate better and sling off less.
 
Bill Baka wrote:

> You guys seem to be taking this way too far. Why not just put in one
> master link, and take off your chain every 3 months or so, soak it in
> gasoline, and then soak it in something like 10W motor oil? I don't even

Be careful here. What you want to use is SAE 30 oil, NOT any oil that
starts with 10W, i.e. 10W30.

The advantage of the chainsaw oils is that they don't fling off as
easily as motor oil.
 
SMS wrote:
> Bill Baka wrote:
>
> > You guys seem to be taking this way too far. Why not just put in one
> > master link, and take off your chain every 3 months or so, soak it in
> > gasoline, and then soak it in something like 10W motor oil? I don't even
>
> Be careful here. What you want to use is SAE 30 oil, NOT any oil that
> starts with 10W, i.e. 10W30.

And why would that be?

In other words, got data?

- Frank Krygowski
 
Zoot Katz wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 16:11:58 -0500, "Ken C. M."
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>>I just looked at your method. Bar and chain oil?!? Well ok, I guess if
> >>>it works for you.
> >>
> >>
> >> That's what I started using after trying waxes. I found a gallon of
> >> the winter grade stuff. What I like about it is that it lasts a long
> >> time in this wet climate. About four times longer than wax in winter.
> >> The cassette and idler pulleys seem to get scummier but the
> >> lubrication keeps working. Chain saw bar oil is good stuff.
> >
> >Well I guess it depends mostly on the conditions that you ride in. Here
> >in mostly dry south Florida it's dry, except for when you get caught in
> >a summer thunderstorm. So most of the time it is pretty dusty and all
> >the wet type lubricants I have tried just get clogged with dust and dirt
> >too quickly.
>
> I'm talking about the joe-bike urban mount that sees daily use
> throughout the year. It's ridden in regular wetness of varying degrees
> 9 months of that year. Road dirt get thrown up as a slurry. If it's
> bad, I just scrape the muck off the idler wheels and from between the
> cog wheels before re-lubing. I lube a chain maybe five times before
> tossing it. (~3000 Km)
>
> Bar-oil looks and acts like Phil's Tenacious Oil. Different properties
> than two-stroke oil. (yuck!)
>
> I stopped buying fancy chain for the joe-bike but I've broken two of
> the cheapo ones so I stopped buying those too. My chain costs are
> about $2.00 per month for ~6000 Km per year. . . and, I spend minimal
> time messing with the dirty things.
>
> I haven't fanatically cleaned a chain in ages unless I was making it
> into belt-buckles. The bike still shifts smoothly and pedals free.
>
> I use a contact lens cleanser bottle for dispensing the bar oil one
> drop at a time at each plate/roller contact point. Then I back pedal
> and wipe off the outside plates with a rag dampened in mineral spirits
> or WD-40. Then I forget about it for 600 Km or so.
> --
> zk

In general I agree with ZK's comments for an urban bike in a northern
city.

For my own experience riding in the desert I have found even less fuss
is needed.
I really don't see many chain problems in the dry climate and I simply
lube with Tri-Flow every 500 miles or so. I also wipe the chain down
after every ride.

My current chain has 2500 miles on it and looks and performs like new!

I have never heard of so many issues with chains outside of this group.
Gary
 
<[email protected]> wrote : And why would that be? (not use 10W-30)
>
> In other words, got data?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I don't got no steenkin' data, but I got info. 10W-30 is equialent to a 10W
oil at room temperature. In an engine, this allows easier cranking in cold
climates. On a bike chain, it would be the same as using 10W oil, so if you
want 30 weight, use 30 weight.
 
Leo Lichtman wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote : And why would that be? (not use 10W-30)
>> In other words, got data?
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> I don't got no steenkin' data, but I got info. 10W-30 is equialent to a 10W
> oil at room temperature. In an engine, this allows easier cranking in cold
> climates. On a bike chain, it would be the same as using 10W oil, so if you
> want 30 weight, use 30 weight.

If the "10W" kicks in at lower temperatures, wouldn't you want that at
riding temperatures of, say, 30F? Wouldn't your plain old 30 weight be
close to paraffin at that temperature? And we all know, 'cause Scharf
Says, that paraffin isn't a lubricant.

Pat
 
Ken C. M. wrote:

> landotter wrote:
>> But the lube you recommend is indeed chain lube, but it's for chains
>> where it's "flung off" and meant to be replenished frequently.
>>
> Yeah that spin off is probably what keeps the wet lubes seeping out of
> the side plates on a bike. And unless you like to stop and wipe your
> chain down every few miles that stuff makes a hell of a mess of your
> drive line. And needs to be re-applied often, but as is the case with the
> wax lubes too.

You have a completely different experience with it than me, then. I use
chainsaw bar oil, and it lasts hundreds of kilometers, rain or shine,
whereas when I used a wax based lube, I had to replace every few days and
every time I rode in the rain. On sporadically rainy brevets, I had to
lube multiple times over the course of the ride.

When I oil the chain, I put a single drop at one edge of each roller, and
haven't experienced an unreasonably messy drive train.

--
Benjamin Lewis
 
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