Chain slip problem?

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Stephen \, Jun 14, 2003.

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  1. Stephen \

    Stephen \ Guest

    Another mainteneance question I'm afraid. My chain has started slipping a lot on the outer chainring
    - I can see that the chain does not fit snuggly to it anymore so I'm assuming it's worn looking at
    the pictures at Sheldon Brown. Last time I replaced this it cost me £135 and I was thinking of
    getting a new bike (approx £400) at xmas anyway so it seems a bit daft to go too mad on the repair.
    I've never fixed anything like this myself before so what are the options for me? I'm thinking I can
    replace the outer chainring only and put on a new chain figuring that the outer ring on the front
    has had most wear and that the rears will be evenly worn so they can last another 6 months. Another
    point is that the gears make an awful noise when the chain slips to the centre chainring on the
    front - is that a symptom of the same problem or just a setup/alignment problem? if it's a seperate
    problem then that on top of adding the new chain and chainring and I'm probably out of my depth and
    may as well let someone else do it all. I'm doing about 100 miles a week on roads by the way.

    Thanks for the help.
     
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  2. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 12:11:21 +0100, "Stephen \(aka steford\)"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    For £135 you can get a good quality chain, a replacement cassette, and the tools to do the job - and
    probably still have enough left over for a celebratory pint afterwards :)

    Opinions only but...

    >Another mainteneance question I'm afraid. My chain has started slipping a lot on the outer
    >chainring - I can see that the chain does not fit snuggly to it anymore so I'm assuming it's worn

    The ring? Maybe, but probably not. If the chain is coming off the big ring it could well be
    adjustment. The chain looks as if it's loose on the rings on all my bikes even when the chain is
    new. To identify chain wear measure the chain carefully as per the Usual Source - I use an
    engineers' 12" steel rule for this, as it's more accurate than a tape measure or a plastic jobby.

    I have rings on my tourer which have outlasted several chains, more than one cassette and indeed one
    entire bike :)

    >I've never fixed anything like this myself before so what are the options for me?

    Measure chain, if worn, replace. A chain tool is cheap (if you don't have one the Park CT-5 is just
    the job) and if you buy a chain with a Powerlink you'll have no trouble fitting the new one. Check
    cassette / block. If chain is worn beyond 1/16" of stretch per 12" of chain the sprockets may well
    be worn, the simplest way to find out is to add the new chain, try it for a short ride (checking all
    gears) and see if it slips, clatters or jumps.

    Adjusting the gears is also a doddle. Assuming you have Shimano go to shimano.com and download their
    service unstructions (available as PDF). The adjustment instructions are good and reasonably
    straightforward.

    One tool well worth having is a basic workstand. It can pay for itself in a season if you do all
    your own maintenance instead of taking the bike to a shop.

    Guy
    ===
    ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com Advance
    notice: ADSL service in process of transfer to a new ISP. Obviously there will be a week of downtime
    between the engineer removing the BT service and the same engineer connecting the same equipment on
    the same line in the same exchange and billing it to the new ISP.
     
  3. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Stephen (aka steford) wrote:
    > Another mainteneance question I'm afraid. My chain has started slipping a lot on the outer
    > chainring - I can see that the chain does not fit snuggly to it anymore

    IF a new chain skips on it (jumping over the teeth once in gear when power is applied) AND the teeth
    look worn then it needs replacing ASAP, no question about it. The chainring itself might be ok if
    you mean the chain ever comes off when changing gear or pedalling very gently.

    Are you sure it's skipping at the front - sometimes can be hard to tell whether it's front or back?
    Worn rear sprockets are more common.

    > Last time I replaced this it cost me £135

    You what?!!!! :)

    Chainrings are usually easy to replace and don't have to cost much. What cranks have you got?
    Make & model?

    > and I was thinking of getting a new bike (approx £400) at xmas anyway so it seems a bit daft to go
    > too mad on the repair. I've never fixed anything like this myself before so what are the options
    > for me? I'm thinking I can replace the outer chainring only and put on a new chain figuring that
    > the outer ring on the front has had most wear and that the rears will be evenly worn so they can
    > last another 6 months.

    Depending on how worn chain is, you might have to replace the rear sprockets (cassette or freewheel)
    at the back as well if the chain is replaced.

    > Another point is that the gears make an awful noise when the chain slips to the centre chainring
    > on the front - is that a symptom of the same problem or just a setup/alignment problem?

    Some noise when front-changing is normal.

    > if it's a seperate problem then that on top of adding the new chain and chainring and I'm probably
    > out of my depth and may as well let someone else do it all.

    I'm sure you could sort it out if you take it step by step:

    See: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html (sprocket & chain wear, etc)

    1. Check chainring bolts are tight, chainring is not bent, derailleurs are working well.

    2. If chainring really does look shagged (very pointy, or thin spindly or shark-like teeth) or are
    sure chain skips on it, replace (it could perhaps be used on a future bike if expense is hard to
    justify). A 5mm allen key is the only tool (usually) required.

    3. Consider replacing the chain (or definitely replace if replacing chainrings & sprockets)

    4. If new chain skips, replace cassette (by bike shop or purchase tools and DIY).

    ~PB
     
  4. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    > One tool well worth having is a basic workstand.

    Not essential, though. Every single job on the bike can be done without at home, if needs be. Drive
    trains do work upside down :)

    ~PB
     
  5. Ian Smith

    Ian Smith Guest

    On Sat, 14 Jun, Just zis Guy, you know? <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I have rings on my tourer which have outlasted several chains, more than one cassette and indeed
    > one entire bike :)

    But they do eventually wear out - I'm on teh second middle & large rings on my tourer. The middle
    one in particular had an interesting tooth profile - shaped like a breaking wave in section - 45
    degree or so back face rising to a small hook and concave vertical front face.

    However, my experience is that when the ring wear gets enough that chain slips there, there's no
    doubt about it - stand on teh pedals while starting and the cranks turn (accompanied by a sort of
    thu-thu-thu-thu-thud) but you don't go anywhere very much.

    regards, Ian SMith
    --
    |\ /| no .sig
    |o o|
    |/ \|
     
  6. M Series

    M Series Guest

    I'd be very surprised if you had to chain the chain ring. I have one a 16 year old on my tourer that
    has done many thousands of miles. The teeth look worn but with regular chain changing it works just
    fine. I know they will eventually wear out. The sprockets are newer but still done thousands of
    miles and work well.

    My advice would be to get a new chain first (~£10) and removal tool (they last for years, mine cost
    less than a tenner many years ago) fit it, remembering to make sure you have the same number of
    links as the one you take off, a too long chain (loose) will slip. Tinker with the adjusters on the
    rear mech, the front does nothing when you are not changing gear and don't ride so that the chain is
    'crossed', that is with a 7 speed block use only the four smallest sprockets with the largest chain
    ring, with middle chainring use only sprockets 2-5 and with smallest chain ring use sprockets 1-4

    "Stephen (aka steford)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Another mainteneance question I'm afraid. My chain has started slipping a lot on the outer
    > chainring - I can see that the chain does not fit snuggly to it anymore so I'm assuming it's worn
    > looking at the pictures at Sheldon Brown. Last time I replaced this it cost me £135 and I was
    > thinking of getting a new bike (approx £400) at xmas anyway so it seems a bit daft to
    go
    > too mad on the repair. I've never fixed anything like this myself before
    so
    > what are the options for me? I'm thinking I can replace the outer
    chainring
    > only and put on a new chain figuring that the outer ring on the front has had most wear and that
    > the rears will be evenly worn so they can last another 6 months. Another point is that the gears
    > make an awful noise when the chain slips to the centre chainring on the front - is that a symptom
    of
    > the same problem or just a setup/alignment problem? if it's a seperate problem then that on top of
    > adding the new chain and chainring and I'm probably out of my depth and may as well let someone
    > else do it all. I'm doing about 100 miles a week on roads by the way.
    >
    > Thanks for the help.
     
  7. Stephen \

    Stephen \ Guest

    "Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Stephen (aka steford) wrote:
    > > Another mainteneance question I'm afraid. My chain has started slipping a lot on the outer
    > > chainring - I can see that the chain does not fit snuggly to it anymore
    >
    > IF a new chain skips on it (jumping over the teeth once in gear when power is applied) AND the
    > teeth look worn then it needs replacing ASAP, no question about it. The chainring itself might be
    > ok if you mean the chain ever comes off when changing gear or pedalling very gently.
    >
    > Are you sure it's skipping at the front - sometimes can be hard to tell whether it's front or
    > back? Worn rear sprockets are more common.
    >
    > > Last time I replaced this it cost me £135
    >
    > You what?!!!! :)
    >
    > Chainrings are usually easy to replace and don't have to cost much. What cranks have you got? Make
    > & model?
    >
    > > and I was thinking of getting a new bike (approx £400) at xmas anyway so it seems a bit daft to
    > > go too mad on the repair. I've never fixed anything like this myself before so what are the
    > > options for me? I'm thinking I can replace the outer chainring only and put on a new chain
    > > figuring that the outer ring on the front has had most wear and that the rears will be evenly
    > > worn so they can last another 6 months.
    >
    > Depending on how worn chain is, you might have to replace the rear sprockets (cassette or
    > freewheel) at the back as well if the chain is replaced.
    >
    > > Another point is that the gears make an awful noise when the chain slips to the centre chainring
    > > on the front - is that a symptom of the same problem or just a setup/alignment problem?
    >
    > Some noise when front-changing is normal.
    >
    > > if it's a seperate problem then that on top of adding the new chain and chainring and I'm
    > > probably out of my depth and may as well let someone else do it all.
    >
    > I'm sure you could sort it out if you take it step by step:
    >
    > See: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html (sprocket & chain wear, etc)
    >
    > 1. Check chainring bolts are tight, chainring is not bent, derailleurs are working well.
    >
    > 2. If chainring really does look shagged (very pointy, or thin spindly or shark-like teeth) or
    > are sure chain skips on it, replace (it could perhaps be used on a future bike if expense is
    > hard to justify). A 5mm allen key is the only tool (usually) required.
    >
    > 3. Consider replacing the chain (or definitely replace if replacing chainrings & sprockets)
    >
    > 4. If new chain skips, replace cassette (by bike shop or purchase tools and DIY).
    >
    > ~PB
    >
    Thanks very much. I'll reread the Sheldon Brown tutorial as, unfortinately, I'm not too well up on
    exactly what bit is what when it comes to gears/chains etc. The £135 cost last time replaced
    everything - I am doing approx 4500 miles a year on this bike so not a huge price to pay but more
    than I want to fork out between now and xmas if I can help it. I shall go through your points
    probbaly replacing the chain as a relatively simple 1st step to see what happens.
     
  8. Stephen \

    Stephen \ Guest

    "M Series" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I'd be very surprised if you had to chain the chain ring. I have one a 16 year old on my tourer
    > that has done many thousands of miles. The teeth
    look
    > worn but with regular chain changing it works just fine. I know they will eventually wear out. The
    > sprockets are newer but still done thousands of miles and work well.
    >
    > My advice would be to get a new chain first (~£10) and removal tool (they last for years, mine
    > cost less than a tenner many years ago) fit it, remembering to make sure you have the same number
    > of links as the one you take off, a too long chain (loose) will slip. Tinker with the adjusters on
    > the rear mech, the front does nothing when you are not changing gear and don't ride so that the
    > chain is 'crossed', that is with a 7 speed block
    use
    > only the four smallest sprockets with the largest chain ring, with middle chainring use only
    > sprockets 2-5 and with smallest chain ring use
    sprockets
    > 1-4
    >
    Thanks - will pickup a chain on Monday I think and give this a go. Thanks for all the advice.
     
  9. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Might not be a bad idea to replace chain anyway, but just to warn you, if an old chain skips, a new
    one will skip worse. You'll almost certainly have to replace the cassette as well (if old chain has
    done several thousand miles).

    ~PB
     
  10. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 23:25:59 +0100, "Stephen \(aka steford\)"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Thanks very much. I'll reread the Sheldon Brown tutorial as, unfortinately, I'm not too well up on
    >exactly what bit is what when it comes to gears/chains etc.

    Try also <http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/FAQindex.shtml> - click on the broken bit on the
    picture of the bike :)

    >The £135 cost last time replaced everything - I am doing approx 4500 miles a year on this bike

    As I said before, that money will buy you not only the components you need but the tools as well,
    and should leave you with cash in hand.

    I do about the same mileage. A chain lasts me a year on the tourer, a cassette probably two chains.
    There is a tendency hereabouts to rotate three chains, swapping at intervals: since chains and
    cassettes wear together that gives you about three times the life from a cassette. I don't do that
    because these days I ride a recumbent and that has three lengths of 9-speed chain joined end to end.
    Three lots of that is dearer than a cassette :)

    Guy
    ===
    ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com Advance
    notice: ADSL service in process of transfer to a new ISP. Obviously there will be a week of downtime
    between the engineer removing the BT service and the same engineer connecting the same equipment on
    the same line in the same exchange and billing it to the new ISP.
     
  11. Stephen \

    Stephen \ Guest

    "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 23:25:59 +0100, "Stephen \(aka steford\)"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Thanks very much. I'll reread the Sheldon Brown tutorial as,
    unfortinately,
    > >I'm not too well up on exactly what bit is what when it comes to gears/chains etc.
    >
    > Try also <http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/FAQindex.shtml> - click on the broken bit on the
    > picture of the bike :)
    >
    > >The £135 cost last time replaced everything - I am doing approx 4500 miles a year on this bike
    >
    > As I said before, that money will buy you not only the components you need but the tools as well,
    > and should leave you with cash in hand.
    >
    > I do about the same mileage. A chain lasts me a year on the tourer, a cassette probably two
    > chains. There is a tendency hereabouts to rotate three chains, swapping at intervals: since chains
    > and cassettes wear together that gives you about three times the life from a cassette. I don't do
    > that because these days I ride a recumbent and that has three lengths of 9-speed chain joined end
    > to end. Three lots of that is dearer than a cassette :)
    >
    The thing is the more I replace the more I'm out of my depth and the more I feel the need to get a
    pro in to do it. I'm totally relaiant on this bike so it has to work meaning I have to finish it and
    get it set up and ready to go over a weekend. As I said I want to do the minimum work on this to
    keep it going until xmas - so I figured a new chain and outer chain ring would be not too hard to
    fit and may see me through. Of course if this isn't the case then it's pointless to try the work
    myself anyway. The above link looks useful - thanks for that.
     
  12. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 11:48:52 +0100, "Stephen \(aka steford\)"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >The thing is the more I replace the more I'm out of my depth and the more I feel the need to get a
    >pro in to do it.

    Understood. Remember, though, that a bike is just about the only consumer durable manufactured these
    days which is designed to be serviceable by the end user. Haynes do a tolerably good bike service
    manual, and Lennard Zinn has written several excellent books - but it ain't rocket science. Bikes
    are incredibly simple machines.

    >I'm totally relaiant on this bike so it has to work meaning I have to finish it and get it set up
    >and ready to go over a weekend.

    Same here - I was a one-bike commuter for some time. Now I have a spare bike or two :)

    >As I said I want to do the minimum work on this to keep it going until xmas - so I figured a new
    >chain and outer chain ring would be not too hard to fit and may see me through.

    Which is fair, except the ring is less likely to be the problem than the cassette / block -
    but whatever.

    Guy
    ===
    ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com Advance
    notice: ADSL service in process of transfer to a new ISP. Obviously there will be a week of downtime
    between the engineer removing the BT service and the same engineer connecting the same equipment on
    the same line in the same exchange and billing it to the new ISP.
     
  13. Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
    >I do about the same mileage. A chain lasts me a year on the tourer, a cassette probably two
    >chains. There is a tendency hereabouts to rotate three chains, swapping at intervals: since
    >chains and cassettes wear together that gives you about three times the life from a cassette. I
    >don't do that because these days I ride a recumbent and that has three lengths of 9-speed chain
    >joined end to end.

    Alternatively, there is a tendancy to share the cassette wear over three chains, which you do these
    days without swapping the chains, having three chains on the bike at once. (If it was worth rotating
    between three of your chains, it would be worth an upright rider swapping between nine.)
     
  14. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    "Alan Braggins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > Alternatively, there is a tendancy to share the cassette wear over three chains, which you do
    > these days without swapping the chains, having three chains on the bike at once. (If it was worth
    > rotating between three of
    your
    > chains, it would be worth an upright rider swapping between nine.)

    That's the theory, although a failed idler bearing shredded all three in double-quick time a
    while back :-(

    --
    Guy
    ===
    I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
    about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
    wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.
     
  15. David Green

    David Green Guest

    "Stephen \(aka steford\)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...

    > Thanks - will pickup a chain on Monday I think and give this a go. Thanks for all the advice.

    An even smarter approach is to buy two new chains, and then every 6-8 weeks, swap them. Clean the
    'used' chain thoroughly (by immersion in a solvent like white spirit or paraffin), then relube it
    (by submerging in chainsaw oil) before packing it way until the new chain swap.

    If you follow a routine like this your chain will always be well lubricated internally where it
    matters and wear will be minimised, so you wont need to buy new sprockets or chainrings so often.

    David green cambridge.
     
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