Chain Waxing Followup

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by HarryB, Apr 9, 2006.

  1. HarryB

    HarryB Guest

    I just rewaxed (with pure paraffin) my chain and post the following
    observations:

    1) I got about 900 (898 to be exact) miles between waxings this time
    (I didn't keep detailed notes of my prior waxing frequency, but
    guessed I got upwards of 700 miles between waxings.)

    2) All miles were ridden on pavement and none in the rain.

    3) During the last couple hundred miles or so I would get some
    occasional squeaking during the last half of longer rides (40+ miles),
    but would not hear any squeaking on rides that were shorter. I don't
    know why.

    HarryB
    PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
    "work." I'm simply posting this as an FYI.
     
    Tags:


  2. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 19:34:25 -0500, HarryB <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I just rewaxed (with pure paraffin) my chain and post the following
    >observations:
    >
    >1) I got about 900 (898 to be exact) miles between waxings this time
    >(I didn't keep detailed notes of my prior waxing frequency, but
    >guessed I got upwards of 700 miles between waxings.)
    >
    >2) All miles were ridden on pavement and none in the rain.
    >
    >3) During the last couple hundred miles or so I would get some
    >occasional squeaking during the last half of longer rides (40+ miles),
    >but would not hear any squeaking on rides that were shorter. I don't
    >know why.
    >
    >HarryB
    >PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
    >"work." I'm simply posting this as an FYI.


    If you have the capability to measure chain wear easily, adding that
    data would be very helpful.
    --
    Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
    Some gardening required to reply via email.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
     
  3. > PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
    > "work." I'm simply posting this as an FYI.


    The issue with hot waxing a chain isn't about protecting the chain or
    squeaking, but rather shifting performance. I can't tell you how many "hot
    waxers" (which were especially prevalent in the 90s, for whatever reason)
    would come in complaining their bikes weren't shifting well. We'd re-lube
    the chain with more-conventional products, and voila, shifting problem gone.
    This repeated itself far too many times to be any sort of random thing.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


    "HarryB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >I just rewaxed (with pure paraffin) my chain and post the following
    > observations:
    >
    > 1) I got about 900 (898 to be exact) miles between waxings this time
    > (I didn't keep detailed notes of my prior waxing frequency, but
    > guessed I got upwards of 700 miles between waxings.)
    >
    > 2) All miles were ridden on pavement and none in the rain.
    >
    > 3) During the last couple hundred miles or so I would get some
    > occasional squeaking during the last half of longer rides (40+ miles),
    > but would not hear any squeaking on rides that were shorter. I don't
    > know why.
    >
    > HarryB
    > PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
    > "work." I'm simply posting this as an FYI.
     
  4. In article <[email protected]>,
    HarryB <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I just rewaxed (with pure paraffin) my chain and post the following
    > observations:
    >
    > 1) I got about 900 (898 to be exact) miles between waxings this time
    > (I didn't keep detailed notes of my prior waxing frequency, but
    > guessed I got upwards of 700 miles between waxings.)
    >
    > 2) All miles were ridden on pavement and none in the rain.
    >
    > 3) During the last couple hundred miles or so I would get some
    > occasional squeaking during the last half of longer rides (40+ miles),
    > but would not hear any squeaking on rides that were shorter. I don't
    > know why.
    >
    > HarryB
    > PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
    > "work."


    You have an odd way of showing it.

    > I'm simply posting this as an FYI.


    --
    Michael Press
     
  5. HarryB wrote:
    > I just rewaxed (with pure paraffin) my chain and post the following
    > observations:
    >
    > 1) I got about 900 (898 to be exact) miles between waxings this time
    > (I didn't keep detailed notes of my prior waxing frequency, but
    > guessed I got upwards of 700 miles between waxings.)
    >
    > 2) All miles were ridden on pavement and none in the rain.
    >
    > 3) During the last couple hundred miles or so I would get some
    > occasional squeaking during the last half of longer rides (40+ miles),
    > but would not hear any squeaking on rides that were shorter. I don't
    > know why.
    >
    > HarryB
    > PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
    > "work." I'm simply posting this as an FYI.



    And have you experienced the allegedly common "shifting problems"?
     
  6. > And have you experienced the allegedly common "shifting problems"?

    There are a number of things that some might say "work" but don't work as
    well as they could. If you don't know any better, does that make it fine? If
    someone is willing to put up with less-than-optimal shifting in order to get
    an unusual gear combination to work, does that mean it would be acceptable
    to everyone?

    We get customers who will come in requesting a 39t middle for their Ultegra
    6503 crankset (stock is 30/42/52) and tell us that a friend of their 3rd
    cousin says it works fine, no reason not to do it. We explain the reasons it
    won't work as well as stock, but they'll have none of that, because the
    friend of their 3rd cousin says it works fine, and besides, they also read
    that it worked fine in newsgroups. Have they ridden a bike with that
    arrangement? No. But they've heard it works fine. Of course, we have a
    history with the customer, and know that this guy is pretty picky about
    stuff, so we very reluctantly agree to do the work for him.

    We make the change, adjust things as best we can, but notice that we really
    can't get it to shift from the 39 to the 30 nearly as well as before...
    quite a bit of hesitation. It will eventually drop down, but you have to
    plan ahead a bit, and really ease off on the pressure. The customer gets it
    back, rides it, and is quite upset that it doesn't work as well as it did
    with the 42. "Your mechanics don't know what they're doing" (which would
    include me, since I'm the most-experienced mechanic, among other things). So
    the guy leaves, mad, planning never to come back again etc. A few months
    later we find that he's essentially "gone through" a number of shops, and
    about a year later he's back with us, with a bit less attitude and a bit
    more appreciation for what it means when someone says that something that's
    not standard "works fine."

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


    "Ozark Bicycle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > HarryB wrote:
    >> I just rewaxed (with pure paraffin) my chain and post the following
    >> observations:
    >>
    >> 1) I got about 900 (898 to be exact) miles between waxings this time
    >> (I didn't keep detailed notes of my prior waxing frequency, but
    >> guessed I got upwards of 700 miles between waxings.)
    >>
    >> 2) All miles were ridden on pavement and none in the rain.
    >>
    >> 3) During the last couple hundred miles or so I would get some
    >> occasional squeaking during the last half of longer rides (40+ miles),
    >> but would not hear any squeaking on rides that were shorter. I don't
    >> know why.
    >>
    >> HarryB
    >> PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
    >> "work." I'm simply posting this as an FYI.

    >
    >
    > And have you experienced the allegedly common "shifting problems"?
    >
     
  7. Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    > > And have you experienced the allegedly common "shifting problems"?

    >
    > There are a number of things that some might say "work" but don't work as
    > well as they could. If you don't know any better, does that make it fine?



    Ah! The soft put down from the Trek dealer! This dog of yours won't
    hunt. I don't "force feed" hot waxing to others, but I have done it
    myself since 1990.

    Here's my personal experience: I tried waxing solely in an attempt to
    have a clean drive train. Unexpected benefits included longer cog,
    chainring and chain life. Did shifting performance suffer? Never. My
    bikes shift *at least* as well as any among the various groups I've
    ridden with all those years.
















    If
    > someone is willing to put up with less-than-optimal shifting in order to get
    > an unusual gear combination to work, does that mean it would be acceptable
    > to everyone?
    >
    > We get customers who will come in requesting a 39t middle for their Ultegra
    > 6503 crankset (stock is 30/42/52) and tell us that a friend of their 3rd
    > cousin says it works fine, no reason not to do it. We explain the reasons it
    > won't work as well as stock, but they'll have none of that, because the
    > friend of their 3rd cousin says it works fine, and besides, they also read
    > that it worked fine in newsgroups. Have they ridden a bike with that
    > arrangement? No. But they've heard it works fine. Of course, we have a
    > history with the customer, and know that this guy is pretty picky about
    > stuff, so we very reluctantly agree to do the work for him.
    >
    > We make the change, adjust things as best we can, but notice that we really
    > can't get it to shift from the 39 to the 30 nearly as well as before...
    > quite a bit of hesitation. It will eventually drop down, but you have to
    > plan ahead a bit, and really ease off on the pressure. The customer gets it
    > back, rides it, and is quite upset that it doesn't work as well as it did
    > with the 42. "Your mechanics don't know what they're doing" (which would
    > include me, since I'm the most-experienced mechanic, among other things). So
    > the guy leaves, mad, planning never to come back again etc. A few months
    > later we find that he's essentially "gone through" a number of shops, and
    > about a year later he's back with us, with a bit less attitude and a bit
    > more appreciation for what it means when someone says that something that's
    > not standard "works fine."
    >
    > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    > www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
    >
    >
    > "Ozark Bicycle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > HarryB wrote:
    > >> I just rewaxed (with pure paraffin) my chain and post the following
    > >> observations:
    > >>
    > >> 1) I got about 900 (898 to be exact) miles between waxings this time
    > >> (I didn't keep detailed notes of my prior waxing frequency, but
    > >> guessed I got upwards of 700 miles between waxings.)
    > >>
    > >> 2) All miles were ridden on pavement and none in the rain.
    > >>
    > >> 3) During the last couple hundred miles or so I would get some
    > >> occasional squeaking during the last half of longer rides (40+ miles),
    > >> but would not hear any squeaking on rides that were shorter. I don't
    > >> know why.
    > >>
    > >> HarryB
    > >> PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
    > >> "work." I'm simply posting this as an FYI.

    > >
    > >
    > > And have you experienced the allegedly common "shifting problems"?
    > >
     
  8. > Ah! The soft put down from the Trek dealer! This dog of yours won't
    > hunt. I don't "force feed" hot waxing to others, but I have done it
    > myself since 1990.
    >
    > Here's my personal experience: I tried waxing solely in an attempt to
    > have a clean drive train. Unexpected benefits included longer cog,
    > chainring and chain life. Did shifting performance suffer? Never. My
    > bikes shift *at least* as well as any among the various groups I've
    > ridden with all those years.


    No soft put-down intended, just personal experience. And didn't know you
    were a "waxer." I guess this is the ultimate "Your Mileage May Vary" sort of
    thing. Our experiences are quite different. Maybe it's those junk Trek bikes
    we sell? :>)

    Anyway, we've gone too long without a serious disagreement on something, so
    I'm relieved that the world now seems to be back in order again.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


    "Ozark Bicycle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    >> > And have you experienced the allegedly common "shifting problems"?

    >>
    >> There are a number of things that some might say "work" but don't work as
    >> well as they could. If you don't know any better, does that make it fine?

    >
    >
    > Ah! The soft put down from the Trek dealer! This dog of yours won't
    > hunt. I don't "force feed" hot waxing to others, but I have done it
    > myself since 1990.
    >
    > Here's my personal experience: I tried waxing solely in an attempt to
    > have a clean drive train. Unexpected benefits included longer cog,
    > chainring and chain life. Did shifting performance suffer? Never. My
    > bikes shift *at least* as well as any among the various groups I've
    > ridden with all those years.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > If
    >> someone is willing to put up with less-than-optimal shifting in order to
    >> get
    >> an unusual gear combination to work, does that mean it would be
    >> acceptable
    >> to everyone?
    >>
    >> We get customers who will come in requesting a 39t middle for their
    >> Ultegra
    >> 6503 crankset (stock is 30/42/52) and tell us that a friend of their 3rd
    >> cousin says it works fine, no reason not to do it. We explain the reasons
    >> it
    >> won't work as well as stock, but they'll have none of that, because the
    >> friend of their 3rd cousin says it works fine, and besides, they also
    >> read
    >> that it worked fine in newsgroups. Have they ridden a bike with that
    >> arrangement? No. But they've heard it works fine. Of course, we have a
    >> history with the customer, and know that this guy is pretty picky about
    >> stuff, so we very reluctantly agree to do the work for him.
    >>
    >> We make the change, adjust things as best we can, but notice that we
    >> really
    >> can't get it to shift from the 39 to the 30 nearly as well as before...
    >> quite a bit of hesitation. It will eventually drop down, but you have to
    >> plan ahead a bit, and really ease off on the pressure. The customer gets
    >> it
    >> back, rides it, and is quite upset that it doesn't work as well as it did
    >> with the 42. "Your mechanics don't know what they're doing" (which would
    >> include me, since I'm the most-experienced mechanic, among other things).
    >> So
    >> the guy leaves, mad, planning never to come back again etc. A few months
    >> later we find that he's essentially "gone through" a number of shops, and
    >> about a year later he's back with us, with a bit less attitude and a bit
    >> more appreciation for what it means when someone says that something
    >> that's
    >> not standard "works fine."
    >>
    >> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    >> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
    >>
    >>
    >> "Ozark Bicycle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >> >
    >> > HarryB wrote:
    >> >> I just rewaxed (with pure paraffin) my chain and post the following
    >> >> observations:
    >> >>
    >> >> 1) I got about 900 (898 to be exact) miles between waxings this time
    >> >> (I didn't keep detailed notes of my prior waxing frequency, but
    >> >> guessed I got upwards of 700 miles between waxings.)
    >> >>
    >> >> 2) All miles were ridden on pavement and none in the rain.
    >> >>
    >> >> 3) During the last couple hundred miles or so I would get some
    >> >> occasional squeaking during the last half of longer rides (40+ miles),
    >> >> but would not hear any squeaking on rides that were shorter. I don't
    >> >> know why.
    >> >>
    >> >> HarryB
    >> >> PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
    >> >> "work." I'm simply posting this as an FYI.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > And have you experienced the allegedly common "shifting problems"?
    >> >

    >
     
  9. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 01:08:46 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >The issue with hot waxing a chain isn't about protecting the chain or
    >squeaking, but rather shifting performance. I can't tell you how many "hot
    >waxers" (which were especially prevalent in the 90s, for whatever reason)
    >would come in complaining their bikes weren't shifting well. We'd re-lube
    >the chain with more-conventional products, and voila, shifting problem gone.
    >This repeated itself far too many times to be any sort of random thing.
    >
    >--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    >www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


    Mike, with all due respects, hot waxing does not deteriorate shift
    performance. By hot waxing, I don't mean the double boiler getting
    the wax to melt. I mean wax that is liquified at 300 F. Wax means
    parrafin and not melted candles. The modern, thin chains, stay supple
    and free moving, even when dry and not lubed...when they are clean.
    Most waxers, include small amounts of oil in the wax blend. I use
    about a shot glass of oil to ½ lb. of wax.

    In support of your conclusion, I built up a bike that did Ragbrai 2
    seasons. The owner only used if for that event. For the 3rd year she
    complained about skipped shifts before packing up the bike. She had
    not touched the chain since I built it. I no longer wax new builds
    but use Prolink and give some to the owners.
     
  10. Jeff Starr

    Jeff Starr Guest

    On 9 Apr 2006 20:56:27 -0700, "Ozark Bicycle"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    >> > And have you experienced the allegedly common "shifting problems"?

    >>
    >> There are a number of things that some might say "work" but don't work as
    >> well as they could. If you don't know any better, does that make it fine?

    >
    >
    >Ah! The soft put down from the Trek dealer! This dog of yours won't
    >hunt. I don't "force feed" hot waxing to others, but I have done it
    >myself since 1990.
    >
    >Here's my personal experience: I tried waxing solely in an attempt to
    >have a clean drive train. Unexpected benefits included longer cog,
    >chainring and chain life. Did shifting performance suffer? Never. My
    >bikes shift *at least* as well as any among the various groups I've
    >ridden with all those years.
    >
    >

    What drivetrain are you using? Have you used this technique on 9 or
    10 speed systems?

    Jeff
     
  11. Jeff Starr wrote:

    <snipped>

    -on waxing chains and shifting performance-
    > >
    > >Here's my personal experience: I tried waxing solely in an attempt to
    > >have a clean drive train. Unexpected benefits included longer cog,
    > >chainring and chain life. Did shifting performance suffer? Never. My
    > >bikes shift *at least* as well as any among the various groups I've
    > >ridden with all those years.
    > >
    > >

    > What drivetrain are you using? Have you used this technique on 9 or
    > 10 speed systems?
    >


    On my bikes:

    Bike A is 7SP Shimano, barend shifters w/ either a DA or Regina America
    1992 FW, depending on terrain.

    Bike B is 8SP Shimano, barend shifters w/HG cassette.

    Bike C is Shimano "8 of 9" on a 7SP freehub, barend shifters.

    So, personally, I've used waxed chains on 7, 8 and 9SP cog spacing. In
    all cases, shifting performance was A-OK.

    I have set up both Campy and Shimano bikes in 8/9/10SP with waxed
    chains (at customer's request). Again, shifting was A-OK.
     
  12. HarryB

    HarryB Guest

    On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 00:55:25 GMT, Werehatrack
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 19:34:25 -0500, HarryB <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>I just rewaxed (with pure paraffin) my chain and post the following
    >>observations:
    >>
    >>1) I got about 900 (898 to be exact) miles between waxings this time
    >>(I didn't keep detailed notes of my prior waxing frequency, but
    >>guessed I got upwards of 700 miles between waxings.)
    >>
    >>2) All miles were ridden on pavement and none in the rain.
    >>
    >>3) During the last couple hundred miles or so I would get some
    >>occasional squeaking during the last half of longer rides (40+ miles),
    >>but would not hear any squeaking on rides that were shorter. I don't
    >>know why.
    >>
    >>HarryB
    >>PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
    >>"work." I'm simply posting this as an FYI.

    >
    >If you have the capability to measure chain wear easily, adding that
    >data would be very helpful.


    Great idea! The present measurements are 24 1/16" for 24 links and
    ~50% on the maligned Park Tool CC-2 Chain Checker. The chain has 2,660
    miles on it, with about 1,600 of those waxed.

    HarryB
     
  13. HarryB

    HarryB Guest

    On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 01:08:46 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
    >> "work." I'm simply posting this as an FYI.

    >
    >The issue with hot waxing a chain isn't about protecting the chain or
    >squeaking, but rather shifting performance.
    >

    I didn't know that someone had decided that the issue with hot waxing
    is shifting performance. *My* issue with hot waxing is that it meets
    my requirements better than other methods I've tried. I have not had
    problems with shifting that I have attributed to hot waxing.

    Of course, I recognize that I am a beginner compared to many who post
    here (I've only ridden about 10,000 miles since I started bike riding
    2 1/2 years ago). Maybe as I gain more experience I will become more
    discriminating and discover disadvantages with the way I hot wax, but
    for now it meets my requirements.
    >
    >I can't tell you how many "hot
    >waxers" (which were especially prevalent in the 90s, for whatever reason)
    >would come in complaining their bikes weren't shifting well. We'd re-lube
    >the chain with more-conventional products, and voila, shifting problem gone.
    >This repeated itself far too many times to be any sort of random thing.
    >
    >--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    >www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
    >

    HarryB
     
  14. HarryB

    HarryB Guest

    On 9 Apr 2006 19:58:38 -0700, "Ozark Bicycle"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >HarryB wrote:
    >> I just rewaxed (with pure paraffin) my chain and post the following
    >> observations:
    >>
    >> 1) I got about 900 (898 to be exact) miles between waxings this time
    >> (I didn't keep detailed notes of my prior waxing frequency, but
    >> guessed I got upwards of 700 miles between waxings.)
    >>
    >> 2) All miles were ridden on pavement and none in the rain.
    >>
    >> 3) During the last couple hundred miles or so I would get some
    >> occasional squeaking during the last half of longer rides (40+ miles),
    >> but would not hear any squeaking on rides that were shorter. I don't
    >> know why.
    >>
    >> HarryB
    >> PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
    >> "work." I'm simply posting this as an FYI.

    >
    >
    >And have you experienced the allegedly common "shifting problems"?
    >

    No, I haven't.

    HarryB
     
  15. HarryB wrote:
    > On 9 Apr 2006 19:58:38 -0700, "Ozark Bicycle"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >HarryB wrote:
    > >> I just rewaxed (with pure paraffin) my chain and post the following
    > >> observations:
    > >>
    > >> 1) I got about 900 (898 to be exact) miles between waxings this time
    > >> (I didn't keep detailed notes of my prior waxing frequency, but
    > >> guessed I got upwards of 700 miles between waxings.)
    > >>
    > >> 2) All miles were ridden on pavement and none in the rain.
    > >>
    > >> 3) During the last couple hundred miles or so I would get some
    > >> occasional squeaking during the last half of longer rides (40+ miles),
    > >> but would not hear any squeaking on rides that were shorter. I don't
    > >> know why.
    > >>
    > >> HarryB
    > >> PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
    > >> "work." I'm simply posting this as an FYI.

    > >
    > >
    > >And have you experienced the allegedly common "shifting problems"?
    > >

    > No, I haven't.
    >


    Me neither.
     
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