Chain waxing + graphite question



H

HarryB

Guest
I have been hot waxing my chains for the last year or so and have been
quite pleased with the results. Before I rewax I take the still cool
"cake" of wax out of the cooker and scrape off the small amount of
sediment (dirt) that has settled to the bottom of the cake.

I have read that some people recommend adding some graphite to the wax
to help increase the life of the chain. However, if I add graphite to
the wax, wouldn't it settle to the bottom of the wax cake after I'm
done with waxing? In that case, wouldn't I remove the graphite when I
scrape off the sediment, defeating the purpose of adding the graphite?

Harry
 
On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 07:08:22 -0600, HarryB <[email protected]> wrote:

>I have read that some people recommend adding some graphite to the wax
>to help increase the life of the chain. However, if I add graphite to
>the wax, wouldn't it settle to the bottom of the wax cake after I'm
>done with waxing? In that case, wouldn't I remove the graphite when I
>scrape off the sediment, defeating the purpose of adding the graphite?


I don't add graphite and don't see what is would do. I do add maybe
5% motor oil to the wax. Parrafin wax is a bad lubricant. When a
part gets scratched, the wax doesn't flow into the sratch. Maybe the
small amount of oil in the wax will do that. I've had great luck in
waxing chains in SoCal, where it is dry. I usually rewax when the
chain squeeks. Getting caught in the rain will ruin a wax job almost
instantly. I rode a waxed tandem chain in the rain one day. Next
morning the dried chain already had rust spots.

You can put a layer of screen on the bottom of your wax pot and avoid
having to scrape the black layer off.
 
"HarryB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have been hot waxing my chains for the last year or so and have been
> quite pleased with the results. Before I rewax I take the still cool
> "cake" of wax out of the cooker and scrape off the small amount of
> sediment (dirt) that has settled to the bottom of the cake.
>
> I have read that some people recommend adding some graphite to the wax
> to help increase the life of the chain. However, if I add graphite to
> the wax, wouldn't it settle to the bottom of the wax cake after I'm
> done with waxing? In that case, wouldn't I remove the graphite when I
> scrape off the sediment, defeating the purpose of adding the graphite?
>
> Harry


I've used this product in the past. Seems to work great. And now with a
new distributor, should be available.

www.chainbutter.com
 
On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 17:15:51 -0600, "Mike"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>"HarryB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> I have been hot waxing my chains for the last year or so and have been
>> quite pleased with the results. Before I rewax I take the still cool
>> "cake" of wax out of the cooker and scrape off the small amount of
>> sediment (dirt) that has settled to the bottom of the cake.
>>
>> I have read that some people recommend adding some graphite to the wax
>> to help increase the life of the chain. However, if I add graphite to
>> the wax, wouldn't it settle to the bottom of the wax cake after I'm
>> done with waxing? In that case, wouldn't I remove the graphite when I
>> scrape off the sediment, defeating the purpose of adding the graphite?
>>
>> Harry

>
> I've used this product in the past. Seems to work great. And now with a
>new distributor, should be available.
>
>www.chainbutter.com
>

I don't see where ChainButter is better than the hot wax method I
presently use. They recommend basically the same procedure for
ChainButter that I use for hot waxing my chains. However, I use a
FryDaddy deep fryer to heat the wax, so there is little danger of
fire. I don't keep accurate notes, but am quite sure I get much better
mileage between waxings than the 300 - 500 miles they claim for
ChainButter. [1] The hot wax cost me only pennys and I expect to use
the same wax for a long time. The ChainButter costs $19.95 + shipping.

[1] I recently replaced the drive chain on our tandem (it broke) which
had just over 2,000 miles on it. I had waxed it either two or three
times and it had only stretched 25% according to my Park Tools Chain
Checker.

Harry
 
In article <[email protected]>,
HarryB <[email protected]> wrote:

> I have been hot waxing my chains for the last year or so and have been
> quite pleased with the results. Before I rewax I take the still cool
> "cake" of wax out of the cooker and scrape off the small amount of
> sediment (dirt) that has settled to the bottom of the cake.
>
> I have read that some people recommend adding some graphite to the wax
> to help increase the life of the chain. However, if I add graphite to
> the wax, wouldn't it settle to the bottom of the wax cake after I'm
> done with waxing? In that case, wouldn't I remove the graphite when I
> scrape off the sediment, defeating the purpose of adding the graphite?
>
> Harry


Don't use graphite- it's messy and corrosive if the chain gets wet.
Teflon is a better additive. In fact, lose the wax and use pure Teflon
lubricant from Dupont.

--
Mike DeMicco <[email protected]>
 
On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 17:15:51 -0600, "Mike"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>"HarryB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...

....
> I've used this product in the past. Seems to work great. And now with a
>new distributor, should be available.
>
>www.chainbutter.com


How about hydrogenated palm oil or some other processed vegetable oil
that's close to solid at room temperature? It would be a lot cheaper.

Something like Crisco, but a little more solid. Cocoa butter? It
would smell nice.
 
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 09:45:22 -0800, Mike DeMicco
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> HarryB <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I have been hot waxing my chains for the last year or so and have been
>> quite pleased with the results. Before I rewax I take the still cool
>> "cake" of wax out of the cooker and scrape off the small amount of
>> sediment (dirt) that has settled to the bottom of the cake.
>>
>> I have read that some people recommend adding some graphite to the wax
>> to help increase the life of the chain. However, if I add graphite to
>> the wax, wouldn't it settle to the bottom of the wax cake after I'm
>> done with waxing? In that case, wouldn't I remove the graphite when I
>> scrape off the sediment, defeating the purpose of adding the graphite?
>>
>> Harry

>
>Don't use graphite- it's messy and corrosive if the chain gets wet.
>Teflon is a better additive. In fact, lose the wax and use pure Teflon
>lubricant from Dupont.


What is the exact name of this product, and why is it better than the
hot wax method that I'm now using? My priorities are as follows
(highest priority first):
1) Clean chain
2) Reduced chain wear
3) Low cost
4) Ease of relubing

Harry
 
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 09:45:22 -0800, Mike DeMicco
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Don't use graphite- it's messy and corrosive if the chain gets wet.
>Teflon is a better additive. In fact, lose the wax and use pure Teflon
>lubricant from Dupont.


I assume this "pure Teflon lubricant" is some sort of marketing
nonsense. Pure Teflon is solid. I suspect SB's Real Man Saddles
would work better than Dupont's Real Man Teflon Lube...

Pat

Email address works as is.
 
HarryB wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 09:45:22 -0800, Mike DeMicco
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> > HarryB <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> I have been hot waxing my chains for the last year or so and have been
> >> quite pleased with the results. Before I rewax I take the still cool
> >> "cake" of wax out of the cooker and scrape off the small amount of
> >> sediment (dirt) that has settled to the bottom of the cake.
> >>
> >> I have read that some people recommend adding some graphite to the wax
> >> to help increase the life of the chain. However, if I add graphite to
> >> the wax, wouldn't it settle to the bottom of the wax cake after I'm
> >> done with waxing? In that case, wouldn't I remove the graphite when I
> >> scrape off the sediment, defeating the purpose of adding the graphite?
> >>
> >> Harry

> >
> >Don't use graphite- it's messy and corrosive if the chain gets wet.
> >Teflon is a better additive. In fact, lose the wax and use pure Teflon
> >lubricant from Dupont.

>
> What is the exact name of this product,


It *might* be "DuPont Teflon Multi-Use Lubricant", a liquid with teflon
solids which sets up dry. On the back, it says Mfg. & Dist. By Finish
Line, Inc. I've used it on a number of things (pivots, etc.) with good
results, but never on a chain (I have my own "chain ritual"). The good
news is that a 4oz bottle is ~$3.39 at a big box home improvement
center, so it's much cheaper than stuff with the official Finish Line
label.

> and why is it better than the
> hot wax method that I'm now using? My priorities are as follows
> (highest priority first):
> 1) Clean chain
> 2) Reduced chain wear
> 3) Low cost
> 4) Ease of relubing
>
> Harry
 
Mike DeMicco wrote:
>
> Don't use graphite- it's messy and corrosive if the chain gets wet.
>


Corrosive? How?

E.P.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Ozark Bicycle" <[email protected]> wrote:

> HarryB wrote:


> > What is the exact name of this product,

>
> It *might* be "DuPont Teflon Multi-Use Lubricant", a liquid with teflon
> solids which sets up dry. On the back, it says Mfg. & Dist. By Finish
> Line, Inc. I've used it on a number of things (pivots, etc.) with good
> results, but never on a chain (I have my own "chain ritual"). The good
> news is that a 4oz bottle is ~$3.39 at a big box home improvement
> center, so it's much cheaper than stuff with the official Finish Line
> label.


Yes, that is it. See
http://www.performancelubricant.dupont.com/dp_products_multi.html . It
may be made by Finish Line, but it is sold under the DuPont brand name.
It says it can be used on bicycle chains.
>
> > and why is it better than the
> > hot wax method that I'm now using? My priorities are as follows
> > (highest priority first):
> > 1) Clean chain
> > 2) Reduced chain wear
> > 3) Low cost
> > 4) Ease of relubing


Because wax is a poor lubricant, doesn't last, and doesn't hold up to
water. I've used the DuPont lubricant on my mountain bike chain, and it
stays clean. I have only tried the squeeze bottle, not the spray.

ProLink is also a good lube, but the chain doesn't stay as clean in the
presence of dirt as with the Teflon lubricant.

--
Mike DeMicco <[email protected]>
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Ed Pirrero" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Mike DeMicco wrote:
> >
> > Don't use graphite- it's messy and corrosive if the chain gets wet.
> >

>
> Corrosive? How?
>
> E.P.


It's called galvanic corrosion, caused when two dissimilar metals are
brought together in the presence of an electrolyte (e.g., water). Do a
Google search for more information.

--
Mike DeMicco <[email protected]>
 
Mike DeMicco wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Ed Pirrero" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Mike DeMicco wrote:
> > >
> > > Don't use graphite- it's messy and corrosive if the chain gets wet.
> > >

> >
> > Corrosive? How?
> >
> > E.P.

>
> It's called galvanic corrosion, caused when two dissimilar metals are
> brought together in the presence of an electrolyte (e.g., water). Do a
> Google search for more information.
>
> --
> Mike DeMicco <[email protected]>


Which two dissimilar metals are we talking about here? I don't believe
carbon is a metal.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"flatline" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Mike DeMicco wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "Ed Pirrero" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Mike DeMicco wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Don't use graphite- it's messy and corrosive if the chain gets wet.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Corrosive? How?
> > >
> > > E.P.

> >
> > It's called galvanic corrosion, caused when two dissimilar metals are
> > brought together in the presence of an electrolyte (e.g., water). Do a
> > Google search for more information.
> >
> > --
> > Mike DeMicco <[email protected]>

>
> Which two dissimilar metals are we talking about here? I don't believe
> carbon is a metal.


I don't know if it is or is not, but frankly I don't care. For the
purposes of galvanic corrosion, graphite is highly incompatible with
steel or aluminum. That is a fact. Look it up. The military has
universally banned graphite in lubricants, just because of the corrosion
problem.

--
Mike DeMicco <[email protected]>
 
On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 09:49:52 -0800, Mike DeMicco
<[email protected]> wrote:

[---]

>Because wax is a poor lubricant, doesn't last, and doesn't hold up to
>water.


That's also what I've often read elsewhere; but surely wax must offer
some advantages - how else do you explain the almost religious fervour
of its proponents?
 
Andrew Price wrote:
>
> >Because wax is a poor lubricant, doesn't last, and doesn't hold up to
> >water.

>
> That's also what I've often read elsewhere; but surely wax must offer
> some advantages - how else do you explain the almost religious fervour
> of its proponents?


And the chains also seem to last longer compared to any other lube...

I'm starting to believe that cleanliness of the chains is *very*
important in achieving a long life (and reduced friction)... more so
than lubrication.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Ron Ruff" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Andrew Price wrote:
> >
> > >Because wax is a poor lubricant, doesn't last, and doesn't hold up to
> > >water.

> >
> > That's also what I've often read elsewhere; but surely wax must offer
> > some advantages - how else do you explain the almost religious fervour
> > of its proponents?

>
> And the chains also seem to last longer compared to any other lube...


Do you have proof of that? I tried wax, but quickly got tired of having
it fail mid ride; as a minimum causing squeaking and as a maximum,
severe chainsuck. Also, it's worthless when it gets wet. I then tried
blending wax with oil, but that defeated the cleanliness aspect of the
wax. Besides, it was a PITA to go through the whole ritual and has to be
done too often for my liking. Plus the wax flakes off and builds up on
cogs, chainrings and pulleys and thus is not as clean as everyone makes
it out to be.

> I'm starting to believe that cleanliness of the chains is *very*
> important in achieving a long life (and reduced friction)... more so
> than lubrication.


That may be true, but there are other lubes that are fairly clean and
lubricate better and last longer.

--
Mike DeMicco <[email protected]>
 
Mike DeMicco wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Ed Pirrero" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Mike DeMicco wrote:
> > >
> > > Don't use graphite- it's messy and corrosive if the chain gets wet.
> > >

> >
> > Corrosive? How?
> >
> > E.P.

>
> It's called galvanic corrosion, caused when two dissimilar metals are
> brought together in the presence of an electrolyte (e.g., water). Do a
> Google search for more information.


What a polite and informative reply.

E.P.
 
On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 07:08:22 -0600, HarryB wrote:

> I have been hot waxing my chains for the last year or so and have been
> quite pleased with the results. Before I rewax I take the still cool
> "cake" of wax out of the cooker and scrape off the small amount of
> sediment (dirt) that has settled to the bottom of the cake.
>
> I have read that some people recommend adding some graphite to the wax to
> help increase the life of the chain. However, if I add graphite to the
> wax, wouldn't it settle to the bottom of the wax cake after I'm done with
> waxing? In that case, wouldn't I remove the graphite when I scrape off the
> sediment, defeating the purpose of adding the graphite?


I would think graphite would be unimaginably messy. Put a little oil in
your wax instead.

Matt O.
 
On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 09:49:52 -0800, Mike DeMicco
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> "Ozark Bicycle" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> HarryB wrote:

>
>> > What is the exact name of this product,

>>
>> It *might* be "DuPont Teflon Multi-Use Lubricant", a liquid with teflon
>> solids which sets up dry. On the back, it says Mfg. & Dist. By Finish
>> Line, Inc. I've used it on a number of things (pivots, etc.) with good
>> results, but never on a chain (I have my own "chain ritual"). The good
>> news is that a 4oz bottle is ~$3.39 at a big box home improvement
>> center, so it's much cheaper than stuff with the official Finish Line
>> label.

>
>Yes, that is it. See
>http://www.performancelubricant.dupont.com/dp_products_multi.html . It
>may be made by Finish Line, but it is sold under the DuPont brand name.
>It says it can be used on bicycle chains.
>>
>> > and why is it better than the
>> > hot wax method that I'm now using? My priorities are as follows
>> > (highest priority first):
>> > 1) Clean chain
>> > 2) Reduced chain wear
>> > 3) Low cost
>> > 4) Ease of relubing

>
>Because wax is a poor lubricant,
>

I can't agree. When I replaced the last drive chain on our tandem
(because it broke,) it had just over 2,000 miles on it. I checked it
with a Park Tools chain checker and it measured about 25% stretch. My
timing chain has about 3,200 miles on it and I just checked and it has
not even stretched 25%. (Since this chain is longer than the drive
chain, isn't shifted, and only has my torque on it, I would expect it
to last longer than the drive chain.) These chains have been
thoroughly cleaned of the original lube and only waxed. I submit that
if wax is a poor lubricant I wouldn't be seeing this kind of mileage.
>
>doesn't last,
>

I suspect that I get at least 700 miles before the chain would start
to squeak. That is much longer between relubing than other lubes I
tried. (We only ride pavement.)
>
>and doesn't hold up to water.

I do agree with that. If the chain only gets slightly wet from riding
in a light rain I didn't have to rewax, but after a downpour it
squeaks immediately. We seldom ride in the rain, so this isn't much of
a concern for me.
> I've used the DuPont lubricant on my mountain bike chain, and it
>stays clean. I have only tried the squeeze bottle, not the spray.
>
>ProLink is also a good lube, but the chain doesn't stay as clean in the
>presence of dirt as with the Teflon lubricant.
>

I have tried a couple of different lubricants, ProLink being the one I
tried the longest before switching to hot wax. I called ProLink and
followed the directions I was given for the "correct" preparation of
the chain prior to using ProLink (thoroughly saturating the chain with
ProLink.) I don't recall how often I was supposed to relube, but it
involved putting a drop of lube on each link. This takes quite a while
(a tandem has *many* links.) Some of the lube would drip off, so I had
to put down rags or cardboard to absorb the drips. Then I had to leave
the bike sit overnight or the lube would sling off. And, I was told to
be sure to relube after each ride in the rain. Then I needed to run a
cloth over the chain to take off the excess lube before riding after
relubing.

All of this was a lot of work and the chain was not whistle clean like
with the hot wax method. The chain rings, cassette, and rear
derailleur always had a black residue on them. It wasn't a heavy
residue, but it was dirty. Since I try to keep our tandem showroom
clean, a clean drive train is very important to me. Besides, I didn't
like to see a chainring tattoo on my stoker's lovely legs - she's
never had one after I switched to hot waxing.

Harry
 

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