Chains, chainsets and cassettes

[Ian B.]

I've made a shopping list on wiggle for a new chain, cassette and
chainset to replace my old rusty ones. The chain is the main problem
(rusty) but none are in great conditions so I thought I'd replace the lot.

I was wondering if anyone could give me advice as to anything I've
overlooked, compatibility for example (it's for a 7 speed Raleigh MTB
from ~1998). Also is this an over-ambitious project, seeing as I've
never done much bike repair before? Still, not the end of the world if I
have problems as I can always return incorrect stuff!

Shimano HG40 Chain - http://tinyurl.com/mejo5
Shimano HG30 Cassette - http://tinyurl.com/m5frf
Shimano T303 Chainset - http://tinyurl.com/ru4z5

Other stuff:
LifeLine Bicycle Tool Set (to do all this stuff!!) -
http://tinyurl.com/nnhsp
Transfil Gear Cable Inner (seems logical to change these now) -
http://tinyurl.com/rggk5
Spare Chain Pins (so I can remove the chain for cleaning?) -
http://tinyurl.com/qj47s
Grease (for greasing appropriate stuff) - http://tinyurl.com/m74ro

Sorry for the long post, thanks for reading!
Ian

 

[Mark Thompson]

> Spare Chain Pins (so I can remove the chain for cleaning?) -
> http://tinyurl.com/qj47s

Noooo, you want a powerlink. <www.mtbr.com/reviews/Chain/product_
20594.shtml> or google should provide plenty of gushing reviews about them.
Cost £2 to £3 from LBS - get a lesson in how to get 'em open as well
(there's a knack to it).

The chain tool in the tool kit will let you remove the chain without a
powerlink, but it takes much longer and is a complete faff.

You shouldn't need the spare chain pins at all.

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>,
Ian B. ('[email protected]') wrote:

> I've made a shopping list on wiggle for a new chain, cassette and
> chainset to replace my old rusty ones. The chain is the main problem
> (rusty) but none are in great conditions so I thought I'd replace the
> lot.
>
> I was wondering if anyone could give me advice as to anything I've
> overlooked, compatibility for example (it's for a 7 speed Raleigh MTB
> from ~1998).
>
> Also is this an over-ambitious project, seeing as I've
> never done much bike repair before? Still, not the end of the world if
> I have problems as I can always return incorrect stuff!
>
> Shimano HG40 Chain - http://tinyurl.com/mejo5

Don't get a Shimano chain. The joining pins are a clumsy solution - SRAM
chains with magic links are much better.

> Shimano HG30 Cassette - http://tinyurl.com/m5frf
>
> Shimano T303 Chainset - http://tinyurl.com/ru4z5

Is this compatible with your existing bottom bracket? If not you may need
to replace your bottom bracket as well. Shimano seem to change bottom
bracket designs fairly frequently, for no obvious technical reason.

> Spare Chain Pins (so I can remove the chain for cleaning?) -
> http://tinyurl.com/qj47s

Don't. They're not worth it. Get a SRAM chain.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

A message from our sponsor: This site is now in free fall

 

[Jim Price]

Mark Thompson wrote:
>> Spare Chain Pins (so I can remove the chain for cleaning?) -
>> http://tinyurl.com/qj47s
>
> Noooo, you want a powerlink. <www.mtbr.com/reviews/Chain/product_
> 20594.shtml> or google should provide plenty of gushing reviews about them.
> Cost £2 to £3 from LBS - get a lesson in how to get 'em open as well
> (there's a knack to it).

Don't spend that much on one, when you can get a Sram pc48 7/8 speed
chain with a powerlink for £5 from the likes of Merlin or Spa Cycles.

> The chain tool in the tool kit will let you remove the chain without a
> powerlink, but it takes much longer and is a complete faff.

You will need the chain tool to remove links to get the new chain to the
correct length.

> You shouldn't need the spare chain pins at all.

Indeed. Or the Shimano chain.

I'd put the money saved on the chain and pins towards a shimano deore
M510 chainset instead of the one you have linked to at Wiggle. Its an
extra 20 quid, but its worth it.

If the OP is going to buy a cheap all in one toolkit and he has a
Decathlon store near him, he should check them out. There's nothing
wrong with their gear cables except the extra weight of change in your
pocket. The Park tools web site is good on what to do with the tools though.

The grease is a tad overpriced aswell - I'd want at least four times the
quantity of waterproof grease for that amount of money. Even your local
Halfords will have something just as good in their motorbike section for
a lot less.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

 

[Tim]

On 2006-03-29, Mark Thompson <pleasegivegenerously@warmmail*_turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com> wrote:
>> Spare Chain Pins (so I can remove the chain for cleaning?) -
>> http://tinyurl.com/qj47s
>
> Noooo, you want a powerlink. <www.mtbr.com/reviews/Chain/product_
> 20594.shtml> or google should provide plenty of gushing reviews about them.
> Cost £2 to £3 from LBS - get a lesson in how to get 'em open as well
> (there's a knack to it).
>
> The chain tool in the tool kit will let you remove the chain without a
> powerlink, but it takes much longer and is a complete faff.
>
> You shouldn't need the spare chain pins at all.

About £1 is usual for powerlinks from the LBSen round here. The
last one was free since they'd cashed up for the day and were wanting to
get away sharpish!
--
Tim.

[email protected]

 

[Ian B.]

Jim Price wrote:

> Don't spend that much on one, when you can get a Sram pc48 7/8 speed
> chain with a powerlink for £5 from the likes of Merlin or Spa Cycles.

Indeed, that seems to be a definite consensus here!

> I'd put the money saved on the chain and pins towards a shimano deore
> M510 chainset instead of the one you have linked to at Wiggle. Its an
> extra 20 quid, but its worth it.

What are the advantages of the M510? I'm on a very tight budget, but
also my bike is not always well looked after (sometimes I have to leave
it outside overnight) so I don't want to spend to much on parts.

> If the OP is going to buy a cheap all in one toolkit and he has a
> Decathlon store near him, he should check them out. There's nothing
> wrong with their gear cables except the extra weight of change in your
> pocket. The Park tools web site is good on what to do with the tools
> though.

Ah yes, the looney max tool box looks like it has most of the same stuff
(except for a puncture repair kit which I don't need anyhow) for £26.45?
Seems like a bargain, and in a lucky conicedence I'm going up to
Nottingham on Sunday .

> The grease is a tad overpriced aswell - I'd want at least four times the
> quantity of waterproof grease for that amount of money. Even your local
> Halfords will have something just as good in their motorbike section for
> a lot less.

Ah yes, I choose that cause I wasn't really sure what stuff is good to
use (and I have had bad experience with grease in the past!), and the
Park Tools website recommends that for most of their stuff. So just bog
standard grease for a motorbike should do the trick?

Thanks a lot for your help, it is greatly appreciated,
Ian

 

[Ian B.]

Simon Brooke wrote:

>>Shimano HG30 Cassette - http://tinyurl.com/m5frf
>>
>>Shimano T303 Chainset - http://tinyurl.com/ru4z5
>
>
> Is this compatible with your existing bottom bracket? If not you may need
> to replace your bottom bracket as well. Shimano seem to change bottom
> bracket designs fairly frequently, for no obvious technical reason.

Umm, good question, how can I tell? My current chainset has on it
something like "Shimano Dual SIS" and reading around the fact it is
Shimano seems to suggest another Shimano chainset should be ok. But I am
slightly confused on the matter, is there someway I can check if it will
be compatible without taking the current chainset off?

Thanks for the help!
Ian

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>,
Ian B. ('[email protected]') wrote:

> Jim Price wrote:
>
>> Don't spend that much on one, when you can get a Sram pc48 7/8 speed
>> chain with a powerlink for £5 from the likes of Merlin or Spa Cycles.
>
> Indeed, that seems to be a definite consensus here!
>
>> I'd put the money saved on the chain and pins towards a shimano deore
>> M510 chainset instead of the one you have linked to at Wiggle. Its an
>> extra 20 quid, but its worth it.
>
> What are the advantages of the M510? I'm on a very tight budget, but
> also my bike is not always well looked after (sometimes I have to leave
> it outside overnight) so I don't want to spend to much on parts.

I have to say that upgrading the chainset was my first thought too.

The chainset you selected was a rivetted steel one. That has one real
benefit - it's hard wearing and will survive abuse for a long time - but
a number of downsides:

* It's less stiff and will flex, leading to an irritating 'chirr' of the
chain against one of the guides of front derailleur at every
revolution, and to slightly accelerated wear of both chain and
derailleur.
* It's not serviceable, and once it's worn out all you can do is scrap
and replace; if just one ring is worn you still have to scrap the lot.
* It's heavier (although not very much).

But really the main disadvantage (on a utility bike) is the irritating
noise, so I would always prefer a stiffer chainset, which realistically
means at least an alloy spider - alloy rings aren't needed and neither
does it matter from this point of view whether they're rivetted or
bolted.

But given it is such a substantial step up in price, you need to think
about whether that is worth it to you (and if the bottom bracket flexes
you'll get a 'chirr' anyway, no matter how good the chainset).

>> If the OP is going to buy a cheap all in one toolkit and he has a
>> Decathlon store near him, he should check them out. There's nothing
>> wrong with their gear cables except the extra weight of change in your
>> pocket. The Park tools web site is good on what to do with the tools
>> though.
>
> Ah yes, the looney max tool box looks like it has most of the same
> stuff (except for a puncture repair kit which I don't need anyhow) for
> £26.45? Seems like a bargain, and in a lucky conicedence I'm going up
> to Nottingham on Sunday .

My experience is that cheap tools are a very bad bargain; the tools which
have earned their place in my toolbox are mainly Park, Pedro's or
Campagnolo.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Diplomacy, American: see Intelligence, Military

 

[Jim Price]

Ian B. wrote:
> Jim Price wrote:
>> I'd put the money saved on the chain and pins towards a shimano deore
>> M510 chainset instead of the one you have linked to at Wiggle. Its an
>> extra 20 quid, but its worth it.
>
> What are the advantages of the M510? I'm on a very tight budget, but
> also my bike is not always well looked after (sometimes I have to leave
> it outside overnight) so I don't want to spend to much on parts.

Its light, its made largely out of aluminium (unlike the one you're
looking at which has lots of pressed steel and plastic), it has
replaceable chainrings (the inner and middle of which are the only ones
made out of steel) so you don't need to replace the whole chainset next
time, and it looks good (subjective). Its also cheaper at chain reaction
(and worth looking for in Decathlon), and works really well with the
Sram pc48 chain (that's my touring bike setup). The m510 is a budget
chainset, whereas the t303 is for people who don't ride their bikes.
I've bent a similar chainset just by pedalling.

One more thing to check before you buy is how long your bottom bracket
is, as different chainsets sometimes need different bottom brackets. If
your cranks have bolts to hold them on, you measure the longest part of
the axle, if the cranks are secured by nuts, you don't measure the
threaded bit. The m510 uses about a 113mm axle (from memory - although
anything from 110 to 115 is likely to work OK).

>> If the OP is going to buy a cheap all in one toolkit and he has a
>> Decathlon store near him, he should check them out. There's nothing
>> wrong with their gear cables except the extra weight of change in your
>> pocket. The Park tools web site is good on what to do with the tools
>> though.
>
> Ah yes, the looney max tool box looks like it has most of the same stuff
> (except for a puncture repair kit which I don't need anyhow) for £26.45?
> Seems like a bargain, and in a lucky conicedence I'm going up to
> Nottingham on Sunday .

Some more money saved!

>> The grease is a tad overpriced aswell - I'd want at least four times
>> the quantity of waterproof grease for that amount of money. Even your
>> local Halfords will have something just as good in their motorbike
>> section for a lot less.
>
> Ah yes, I choose that cause I wasn't really sure what stuff is good to
> use (and I have had bad experience with grease in the past!), and the
> Park Tools website recommends that for most of their stuff. So just bog
> standard grease for a motorbike should do the trick?

As long as it says waterproof somewhere on the tin, yes. Its cheaper
because motorcycles need more of it. I have a 500g tub which looks like
lasting years, even though I do a lot (for a non-bike-shop version of a
lot) of bike maintenance and building.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>,
Ian B. ('[email protected]') wrote:

> Simon Brooke wrote:
>
>>>Shimano HG30 Cassette - http://tinyurl.com/m5frf
>>>
>>>Shimano T303 Chainset - http://tinyurl.com/ru4z5
>>
>> Is this compatible with your existing bottom bracket? If not you may
>> need to replace your bottom bracket as well. Shimano seem to change
>> bottom bracket designs fairly frequently, for no obvious technical
>> reason.
>
> Umm, good question, how can I tell? My current chainset has on it
> something like "Shimano Dual SIS" and reading around the fact it is
> Shimano seems to suggest another Shimano chainset should be ok. But I
> am slightly confused on the matter, is there someway I can check if it
> will be compatible without taking the current chainset off?

Shimano have used at least two different square taper systems, at least
one solid-axle splined system ('Octalink'), and now the external-bearing
hollow axle splined system called 'Hollowtech II'. As far as I know
Shimano have never produced an ISIS bottom bracket, the change in square
tapers was a long time ago, and the Hollowtech II is only on very
expensive machinery. So if your bottom bracket axle has splines it's an
Octalink (eight splines; if it has nine splines then it /is/ an ISIS)
and if it's a square taper I *think* any current Shimano square taper
will fit.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Windows 95:
You, you, you! You make a grown man cry...
M. Jagger/K. Richards

 

[Ian B.]

Jim Price wrote:

>>> I'd put the money saved on the chain and pins towards a shimano deore
>>> M510 chainset instead of the one you have linked to at Wiggle. Its an
>>> extra 20 quid, but its worth it.
>>
>>
>> What are the advantages of the M510? I'm on a very tight budget, but
>> also my bike is not always well looked after (sometimes I have to
>> leave it outside overnight) so I don't want to spend to much on parts.
>
>
> Its light, its made largely out of aluminium (unlike the one you're
> looking at which has lots of pressed steel and plastic), it has
> replaceable chainrings (the inner and middle of which are the only ones
> made out of steel) so you don't need to replace the whole chainset next
> time, and it looks good (subjective). Its also cheaper at chain reaction
> (and worth looking for in Decathlon), and works really well with the
> Sram pc48 chain (that's my touring bike setup). The m510 is a budget
> chainset, whereas the t303 is for people who don't ride their bikes.
> I've bent a similar chainset just by pedalling.
>
> One more thing to check before you buy is how long your bottom bracket
> is, as different chainsets sometimes need different bottom brackets. If
> your cranks have bolts to hold them on, you measure the longest part of
> the axle, if the cranks are secured by nuts, you don't measure the
> threaded bit. The m510 uses about a 113mm axle (from memory - although
> anything from 110 to 115 is likely to work OK).

One problem with the M510, it's for 9 speed chainrings only isn't it?
Although I'm confused as I thought the PC48 chain was 7/8 speed, yet you
say that's the setup you have on your bike?! Am I missing something, or
do 9 speed chainsets work ok with 7/8 speed everything else?

Thanks again for all the help and advice everyone!
Ian

 

[Clive George]

"Ian B." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> One problem with the M510, it's for 9 speed chainrings only isn't it?
> Although I'm confused as I thought the PC48 chain was 7/8 speed, yet you
> say that's the setup you have on your bike?! Am I missing something, or do
> 9 speed chainsets work ok with 7/8 speed everything else?

Yes, they're fine.

cheers,
clive

 

[Jim Price]

Ian B. wrote:
> One problem with the M510, it's for 9 speed chainrings only isn't it?
> Although I'm confused as I thought the PC48 chain was 7/8 speed, yet you
> say that's the setup you have on your bike?! Am I missing something, or
> do 9 speed chainsets work ok with 7/8 speed everything else?

It works fine for 7, 8 and 9 speed, as long as you use a decent chain
like the Sram pc48 (which is technically an 8 speed chain, but works
fine for 7 speed). If you went down to Halfords and bought their 5/6/7
speed chain you'd find it wouldn't work so well, but you'd have to be
slightly mad to do that - its not even as cheap.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>,
Ian B. ('[email protected]') wrote:

> Jim Price wrote:
>
>>>> I'd put the money saved on the chain and pins towards a shimano
>>>> deore M510 chainset instead of the one you have linked to at Wiggle.
>>>> Its an extra 20 quid, but its worth it.
>>>
>>>
>>> What are the advantages of the M510? I'm on a very tight budget, but
>>> also my bike is not always well looked after (sometimes I have to
>>> leave it outside overnight) so I don't want to spend to much on
>>> parts.
>>
>>
>> Its light, its made largely out of aluminium (unlike the one you're
>> looking at which has lots of pressed steel and plastic), it has
>> replaceable chainrings (the inner and middle of which are the only
>> ones made out of steel) so you don't need to replace the whole
>> chainset next time, and it looks good (subjective). Its also cheaper
>> at chain reaction (and worth looking for in Decathlon), and works
>> really well with the Sram pc48 chain (that's my touring bike setup).
>> The m510 is a budget chainset, whereas the t303 is for people who
>> don't ride their bikes. I've bent a similar chainset just by
>> pedalling.
>>
>> One more thing to check before you buy is how long your bottom bracket
>> is, as different chainsets sometimes need different bottom brackets.
>> If your cranks have bolts to hold them on, you measure the longest
>> part of the axle, if the cranks are secured by nuts, you don't measure
>> the threaded bit. The m510 uses about a 113mm axle (from memory -
>> although anything from 110 to 115 is likely to work OK).
>
> One problem with the M510, it's for 9 speed chainrings only isn't it?
> Although I'm confused as I thought the PC48 chain was 7/8 speed, yet
> you say that's the setup you have on your bike?! Am I missing
> something, or do 9 speed chainsets work ok with 7/8 speed everything
> else?

The inside width of a 9 speed is the same as the internal width of an 8,
7, 6, or indeed 5 speed chain. It's only at ten speed that the internal
width changes. So there's no difference between a nine-speed chainring
and a five-speed chainring, except the label (and the price tag).

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; 'I think we should trust our president in every decision
;; that he makes and we should just support that'
;; Britney Spears of George W Bush, CNN 04:09:03