Challenging dinner guests

Dave Smith said:

jmcquown said:

To my understanding, Vegans don't eat any animal products at all.

Strictly

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vegetables and grains. No butter, no nothing that has anything to

do with

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animals including butter or milk from cows or goats. Strict Vegans

also

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won't eat honey although I have no idea what this has to do with

"animal"

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products since bees aren't animals. Vegetarians are more moderate,

using

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dairy products including cheese, butter but won't eat meat, fish or

poultry.

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From what I can gather, veganism is a way of living that excludes all

forms of

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exploitation of animals.

BTW.... Bees are animals. Their view is that bees are enslaved and

exploited in

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order to produce honey. In reality, and that may be a difficult

concept for

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vegans to wrap their heads around, only one bee in a hive is

enslaved. That is

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the queen. The rest of the bees are free to come and go as they

please. If

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something happens to the queen the whole hive will get up and move.

It is fascinating that something like honey can not be vegan because

it involves

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the exploitation of an animal that has a natural tendency to live

wherever there

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is a queen and spends its entire live flying back and forth to gather

pollen

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without any training at all. Yet Vegans generally espouse the virtues

of organic

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farming. That means that they use [censored] for fertilizer. Most of that

[censored] comes

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from cows and other animals on farms that are raising them for meat,

or milk.

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I wonder how they would ever have survived in the 19th century,

before the days

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of mechanized tractors. Farmers generally used horses or oxen to work

their

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fields. They used them to pull plows, the haul wagons, to operate

various types

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of farm equipment. The entire agricultural system replied almost

entirely on the

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exploitation of animals.

Most of the world still exploits animals for farming, the human
animal.... besides all the world's rice paddys lookit all those illegal
beaners pickin' veggies... even if they ain't quite human they are
indeed animals.

Anyways, there ain't any such thing as a vegetarian/vegan, every last
one of them
cheats regularly.

Sheldon

Wayne Boatwright said:

On Fri 18 Mar 2005 09:07:38p, Dave Smith wrote in rec.food.cooking:

Quoted message said:

From what I can gather, veganism is a way of living that excludes

all

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forms of exploitation of animals.

These must be the same people that wear plastic shoes.

Plastic is made from petroleum/oil, which once was animals.

"Bob" <virtualgoth@die_spammer.biz> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ophelia said:

A vegetarian friend of mine says he will eat nothing with a face

...so eggs, jellyfish, clams, oysters, and scallops would be okay? (I'm
not sure it's accurate to say that skate has a face, either.)

Or was he just being glib?

Not sure🙂 I will ask him next time I see him

Sheldon said:

Quoted message said:

I wonder how they would ever have survived in the 19th century,

before the days

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of mechanized tractors. Farmers generally used horses or oxen to work

their

Quoted message said:

fields. They used them to pull plows, the haul wagons, to operate

various types

Quoted message said:

of farm equipment. The entire agricultural system replied almost

entirely on the

Quoted message said:

exploitation of animals.

Most of the world still exploits animals for farming, the human
animal.... besides all the world's rice paddys lookit all those illegal
beaners pickin' veggies... even if they ain't quite human they are
indeed animals.

They may consider human exploitation on another level. From my experience,
people who are overly concerned with animal welfare usually don't care
about humans. Animals are still used in most forms of agricultural, and
the more "organic" the farming the more we use animals. I wonder if most
people realize how important bees are to agriculture. Most orchard owners
around here either own their own bees or pay a local apiary to bring hives
in to their orchards because are fundamental to flower fertilization, and
having active bee hives close to an orchard increases productivity by as
much as 50%. Worms are another animal vital to our agriculture. As they
burrow through the ground they leave castings (worm [censored]) full of useful
fertilizer, and their tunnels help with aeration and drainage of the soil.
Organic farmers use bug warfare to protect their gardens from pests. They
will use certain types of insects in their gardens in order to keep the
food free of others.

It is bad enough that these poor misguided vegans are denying themselves
some of the basic foods of the human diet, but they are being duped into
buying "organic" foods which exploit more animals than the large,
chemically assisted, commercial operations.

Quoted message said:

Anyways, there ain't any such thing as a vegetarian/vegan, every last
one of them
cheats regularly.

Sheldon

On Sat 19 Mar 2005 07:04:16a, Ophelia wrote in rec.food.cooking:

Quoted message said:

"Bob" <virtualgoth@die_spammer.biz> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ophelia said:

A vegetarian friend of mine says he will eat nothing with a face

...so eggs, jellyfish, clams, oysters, and scallops would be okay? (I'm
not sure it's accurate to say that skate has a face, either.)

Or was he just being glib?

Not sure🙂 I will ask him next time I see him

LOL! Not to forget Pansies! :-) I've seen them served in salads.

--
Wayne Boatwright
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974

"Wayne Boatwright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat 19 Mar 2005 07:04:16a, Ophelia wrote in rec.food.cooking:

Quoted message said:

"Bob" <virtualgoth@die_spammer.biz> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ophelia wrote:

> A vegetarian friend of mine says he will eat nothing with a face

...so eggs, jellyfish, clams, oysters, and scallops would be okay? (I'm
not sure it's accurate to say that skate has a face, either.)

Or was he just being glib?

Not sure🙂 I will ask him next time I see him

LOL! Not to forget Pansies! :-) I've seen them served in salads.

Pansies???????? I never saw that🙂

One time on Usenet, Dave Smith <[email hidden]> said:

<snip>

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They can boycott meat until the cows come home.

Heh -- this would make a great sig quote...

--
J.J. in WA ~ mom, vid gamer, novice cook ~
"You still haven't explained why the pool is
filled with elf blood." - Frylock, ATHF

Dave Smith wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

It is fascinating that something like honey can not be vegan because

it involves

Quoted message said:

the exploitation of an animal that has a natural tendency to live

wherever there

Quoted message said:

is a queen and spends its entire live flying back and forth to gather

pollen

Quoted message said:

without any training at all. Yet Vegans generally espouse the virtues

of organic

Quoted message said:

farming. That means that they use [censored] for fertilizer. Most of that

[censored] comes

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from cows and other animals on farms that are raising them for meat,

or milk.

Honey by definition is vegan because it is derived directly from
animals. But many vegans (or people who claim to be vegans, if you get
off on identifying hypocrisy in all forms) don't consider it a major
transgression to eat honey and do so. Many vegans, believe it or not,
are fairly reasonable people and realize that it is impossible to exist
on Earth without doing some damage to the environment and killing some
lifeforms. They still prefer to minimize the damage. Why does it have
to be all or nothing?--commit suicide or eat meat everyday?

Quoted message said:

I wonder how they would ever have survived in the 19th century,

before the days

Quoted message said:

of mechanized tractors. Farmers generally used horses or oxen to work

their

Quoted message said:

fields. They used them to pull plows, the haul wagons, to operate

various types

Quoted message said:

of farm equipment. The entire agricultural system replied almost

entirely on the

Quoted message said:

exploitation of animals.

Only a dumbass vegan would say that veganism is a way of eating that
should be adopted all over the world, and should have been practiced by
everyone in the past. It's only viable in a society with the means such
that people can survive without eating animal products. That wasn't
always possible. it's still not possible, or at least not healthy, for
people who don't have the time and money to consider how they're
getting their B12, etc. It's a luxury, in a sense. The reasoning for
many is that if we *can* do it, we should; not that it should be done
in all cases no matter what the cost.

There a lot of proselytizing vegetarians and vegans whose behavior is
hypocritical, but I think it's unfair to denounce all of them. (I, by
the way, am neither vegan nor vegetarian. But I don't resent those who
are. I don't understand why so many people seem to take it as a
personal affront.)

Uh, I meant honey by definition is NOT vegan.

One time on Usenet said:

Uh, I meant honey by definition is NOT vegan.

I wondered about that...

--
J.J. in WA ~ mom, vid gamer, novice cook ~
"You still haven't explained why the pool is
filled with elf blood." - Frylock, ATHF

Ophelia said:

"jmcquown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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Maverick said:

"Dave Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Dan Abel wrote:
>
>> I don't agree with Dave's attitude on this, but he is correct in
>> posting
>> that many people give a vegetarian diet a try for a year or so

and

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>> then
>> give it up.
> You don't agree with my attitude? My attitude is that I am not
> interested
> in
> indulging people who are temporarily adopting a diet that is
> different
> from
> mine.

Thankfully, I don't have any vegetarian/vegan (didn't know there

was a

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difference) friends. Our friends all agree with Ron White's
statement of "I didn't climb to the top of the [censored] food chain

to

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eat carrots!"

Bret

To my understanding, Vegans don't eat any animal products at all.
Strictly
vegetables and grains. No butter, no nothing that has anything to

do with

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

animals including butter or milk from cows or goats. Strict Vegans

also

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

won't eat honey although I have no idea what this has to do with

"animal"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

products since bees aren't animals. Vegetarians are more moderate,

using

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

dairy products including cheese, butter but won't eat meat, fish or

Quoted message said:

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poultry.

A vegetarian friend of mine says he will eat nothing with a face

O

Probably doesn't stop him from stuffing his meat in any face he can
get. hehe

Peter Aitken said:

Anyone who eats fish is not a vegetarian. Case closed.

I call 'em pesco-vegetarians. There's a lot of them out there.

Steve

Steve Pope said:

Peter Aitken said:

Anyone who eats fish is not a vegetarian. Case closed.

I call 'em pesco-vegetarians. There's a lot of them out there.

Steve

Nonsense... those are called pelicans.

Sheldon

Crush on Lyle said:

Honey by definition is vegan because it is derived directly from
animals. But many vegans (or people who claim to be vegans, if you get
off on identifying hypocrisy in all forms) don't consider it a major
transgression to eat honey and do so. Many vegans, believe it or not,
are fairly reasonable people and realize that it is impossible to exist
on Earth without doing some damage to the environment and killing some
lifeforms. They still prefer to minimize the damage. Why does it have
to be all or nothing?--commit suicide or eat meat everyday?

Extremism seems to be what some people prefer. I would put milk products
in the category as honey. You don't have kill a cow to get milk from it,
though cows that stop producing usually end up in someone's oven.

Quoted message said:

Only a dumbass vegan would say that veganism is a way of eating that
should be adopted all over the world, and should have been practiced by
everyone in the past. It's only viable in a society with the means such
that people can survive without eating animal products.

The vegans I have known would never espouse it as a way of life for
everyone. It's a rebellious sort of life style that differentiates them
from the rest of the world.

Quoted message said:

There a lot of proselytizing vegetarians and vegans whose behavior is
hypocritical, but I think it's unfair to denounce all of them. (I, by
the way, am neither vegan nor vegetarian. But I don't resent those who
are. I don't understand why so many people seem to take it as a personal
affront.)

I don't take it as a personal front. I just refuse to cater to them. I
once had a vegan show up at our place for a Christmas gathering. My
nephew's daughter, unbeknownst to me, was (temporarily) a vegan. I didn't
know she was a vegan and I didn't know that she was coming. Her father had
put some vegan goodies together for her but forgot them at home. As we were
trying to put dinner for 16 on the table my wife was running around trying
to find something that would suit her diet. This same girl, just a year
and a half later, was sitting across from me at a brunch buffet chowing
down on a plate full of ham, eggs, chicken and fish. Just like every other
vegetarian I have ever known she went back to the pleasures of eating
flesh.

Dave Smith said:

Extremism seems to be what some people prefer. I would put milk

products

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in the category as honey. You don't have kill a cow to get milk from

it,

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though cows that stop producing usually end up in someone's oven.

I think that's sort of fair--in that if you own your own cow and treat
it well and milk it everyday, no one is really being hurt. It can also
be true on small, well-run farms. Vegans don't drink milk because they
believe that cows suffer on commercial dairy farms. The milking itself
doesn't hurt them, but the way they are raised and treated does. The
dairy industry also feeds the veal industry, as the male cows have to
go somewhere.

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The vegans I have known would never espouse it as a way of life for
everyone. It's a rebellious sort of life style that differentiates

them

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from the rest of the world.

Yes, there is often an element of that. Also, a very large percentage
of female vegans have eating disorders.

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I don't take it as a personal front. I just refuse to cater to them.

I

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once had a vegan show up at our place for a Christmas gathering. My
nephew's daughter, unbeknownst to me, was (temporarily) a vegan. I

didn't

Quoted message said:

know she was a vegan and I didn't know that she was coming. Her

father had

Quoted message said:

put some vegan goodies together for her but forgot them at home. As

we were

Quoted message said:

trying to put dinner for 16 on the table my wife was running around

trying

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to find something that would suit her diet. This same girl, just a

year

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and a half later, was sitting across from me at a brunch buffet

chowing

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down on a plate full of ham, eggs, chicken and fish. Just like every

other

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vegetarian I have ever known she went back to the pleasures of eating
flesh.

I don't think you should have to cater to them. If you have peculiar
eating habits, you should know that once you leave your own home you
have to fend for yourself in the food department.

Bob said:

Ophelia said:

A vegetarian friend of mine says he will eat nothing with a face

...so eggs, jellyfish, clams, oysters, and scallops would be okay? (I'm not
sure it's accurate to say that skate has a face, either.)

Or was he just being glib?

Bob

The last time some clown sounded off with that line in my presence, I
asked if science were to develop the proper tools and then actually
determine that fruits and vegetables do, indeed, have a "face," would he
then do us the favor of starving himself to death.

Most of the vegetarians who say things like that are being deliberately
off-putting and adversarial. They clearly do not understand how to win
friends and influence people. They deserve whatever slap in the face you
care to deliver.

jim

spamtrap said:

Rodney Myrvaagnes said:

Doug Kanter said:

"Ginny Sher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

>>Black beans give some people MUCH worse digestive discomfort than other
>>kinds of beans. Pain, in other words. I'd avoid that idea if I were you,
>>unless you know these people already like black beans in their various
>>forms.
>>
>
>Thanks for the heads-up. I'm pretty sure these people eat a lot of
>beans regularly so I don't think there would be any problem.
>
>Ginny

I wasn't clear about this. I know people who eat beans 10 times a week.
Kidney beans, pinto beans, fava beans, navy beans, all kinds. They get VERY
nasty reactions to black beans.

It does NOT matter how often your guests eat other beans. Your conclusion
that "there wouldn't be any problem" is based on air. Go ahead with your
plans, but have another side dish ready in case you see people avoiding the
black beans.

This is news to me. I love black beans, and have never seen anyone
avoid them.

I have to wonder if this is some type of twisted racial slur. A bean is
pretty much a bean. Why would he state "I wasn't clear about this. I
know people who eat beans 10 times a week. Kidney beans, pinto beans,
fava beans, navy beans, all kinds. They get VERY nasty reactions to
black beans." if not for a some ethnocentric reason? It's not like black
beans are poisonous or anything.

"Ethnocentric slur"??? You lost me there. Maybe I'm just stupid.

I guess lactose intolerance could be called ethnocentric. Is it
something like that?

My bean books don't say any special precautions are needed for black
beans vis a vis other kinds.

I wouldn't want to cause distress to any guests, of whatever
ethnicity.

Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

Let us restore integrity and honor to the White House

Ginny Sher said:

A few friends are coming over for dinner for game night. There will
be 6 of us including my best friend and her husband. He is

vegetarian

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(eats seafood & dairy)

Then he's not vegetarian.

-L.

-L. said:

Ginny Sher said:

A few friends are coming over for dinner for game night. There will
be 6 of us including my best friend and her husband. He is

vegetarian

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(eats seafood & dairy)

Then he's not vegetarian.

-L.

Yah... I know he's not a vegetarian in a technical sense and I shoulda
just said he only eats seafood. I probably could have listed the
foods that each of them will and won't eat, but it was too lengthy. I
really only meant to impart that each person had very specific foods
they either *could* eat due to doctors orders or *would* eat due to
personal choice.

One eats seafood, preferably cooked in a low-fat method and isn't
supposed to eat cheese, butter, hi sodium, etc. but he does on
occasion. She eats seafood but won't touch cheese, butter, meat, dairy
(unless ff), oil, peanut butter, avocado or pretty much anything with
fat in it.

I know, I know many of you will tell me to tell her that her diet
isn't healthy; that a body needs some fat, etc. It's futile, she's
been like this for decades and is not going to change now. She is my
best friend so I deal with it. I will go out of my way to make sure
her salad has ff dressing and the veggies or whatever, don't have any
oil or butter on them. Usually, we have some condiment like salsa to
place on an entree or vegetable dish when necessary. Her meal was
largely like ours except:

She ate her artichoke plain
She had ff salad dressing over her greens and I did not use any nuts
in her salad.
I served some french bread along with the cornbread for her.
Dessert for her was a plate of strawberries with some blueberries
sprinkled in to look pretty and a little bowl each of ff greek yogurt
and brown sugar to dip the berries in.
She had the salmon with rasp. chipotle sauce because that had no fat
in it and the asparagus.

The only thing she didn't eat was the cornbread and the key lime
cheesecake. Otherwise, it was the same meal. No biggie.

Ginny

Ginny Sher said:

Yah... I know he's not a vegetarian in a technical sense and I

shoulda

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just said he only eats seafood.

Sorry, it's just my pet peeve....people who say "I'm a vegetarian but I
eat chicken." or "I'm a vegetarian but I eat fish." Drives me nuts.

Quoted message said:

I probably could have listed the
foods that each of them will and won't eat, but it was too lengthy.

I

Quoted message said:

really only meant to impart that each person had very specific foods
they either *could* eat due to doctors orders or *would* eat due to
personal choice.

One eats seafood, preferably cooked in a low-fat method and isn't
supposed to eat cheese, butter, hi sodium, etc. but he does on
occasion. She eats seafood but won't touch cheese, butter, meat,

dairy

Quoted message said:

(unless ff), oil, peanut butter, avocado or pretty much anything with
fat in it.

I know, I know many of you will tell me to tell her that her diet
isn't healthy; that a body needs some fat, etc. It's futile, she's
been like this for decades and is not going to change now. She is my
best friend so I deal with it. I will go out of my way to make sure
her salad has ff dressing and the veggies or whatever, don't have any
oil or butter on them. Usually, we have some condiment like salsa to
place on an entree or vegetable dish when necessary. Her meal was
largely like ours except:

She ate her artichoke plain
She had ff salad dressing over her greens and I did not use any nuts
in her salad.
I served some french bread along with the cornbread for her.
Dessert for her was a plate of strawberries with some blueberries
sprinkled in to look pretty and a little bowl each of ff greek yogurt
and brown sugar to dip the berries in.
She had the salmon with rasp. chipotle sauce because that had no fat
in it and the asparagus.

The only thing she didn't eat was the cornbread and the key lime
cheesecake. Otherwise, it was the same meal. No biggie.

Ginny

Sounds like it worked out pretty well. 🙂 I don't understand how
someone could turn down key lime cheesecake, though...(Did you post the
recipe? - I will look for it!)

-L.