Chalo among the fashion victims and other impressionables

[Clive George]

"Andre Jute" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>You have to set the truck up right or you can take a nasty spill if
>you release directly into the over-the-kamm eddying. The best sort of
>truck is a refrigerated truck, among other reasons because its weight
>causes smooth transitions in motion. The rear doors are opened at 45
>degrees or more, depending on the width of the road, and stayed with
>rods attached to the lock mechanisms with ratcheting pipe clamps. The
>space at the bottom across the back and below the doors is filled in
>with 19mm ply; you need three 8x4ft sheets. When the truck accelerates
>after releasing you, and you slow anyway because the grade isn't steep
>enough for the speed, the width of the aero envelope puts your
>exposure to the buffeting further back where it is already much
>weaker. I know quite a bit about airflow over and behind fast cars
>(I'm the author of a book on designing and building prototype and one-
>off cars), and this problem is another reason I didn't even think of
>trying for the 100mph rather than the 100kph.

TBH going for 100kph with mechanical assistance isn't really pushing
things - that sort of speed is achievable on your own, given a suitable
hill. Having something slightly more aerodynamic than your gazelle will help
(which isn't exactly hard), and choosing the right day for the tailwind.
Tandems are very good for this - more weight for the frontal area, and dead
stable at speed. Or a suitably faired recumbent. And yes, I've done it. No
trucks, plywood, road closures, etc, just two of us, one bike, and the
corner with the water flowing over it coming up
reallyveryquicklytimetobrakeHARD.

FWIW the road near Cambridge mentioned before was well-enough surfaced.

clive

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Jan 25, 12:47 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 07:40:44 -0800 (PST), [email protected] wrote:
> >On Jan 25, 10:08 am, Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> I deliberately delayed giving a full explanation, and several times
> >> gave Fogel the tip that he made wrong assumptions, to give him time to
> >> apologize. He didn't.
>
> >And he shouldn't.
>
> >- Frank Krygowski
>
> Dear Frank,
>
> I won't.
>
> First Andre started off with the casual comment that he did well over
> 100 kmh "downhill, of course."
>
> When several people pointed out the unlikelihood of that, he whined
> that we might as well ask for proof that the sun came up.
>
> Pressed for the place, he came up with an obscure road.
>
> Gradually he developed a whole new story involving a truck and
> recording his speed "on a certified calibrated government approved
> speedometer."
>
> It's just as plausible as his original story. If encouraged, he'd
> probably develop a long story about that amazing speedometer and why
> he didn't mention the speed that it supposedly recorded.
>
> His story wouldn't show any awareness that his "downhill, of course"
> was nonsense--riders have been beating 60 mph while drafting on the
> flats for over a century.
>
> It doesn't really matter whether Andre actually thinks that it's
> necessary to add "downhill, of course" while not mentioning "behind a
> truck," whether he really knows of a "certified calibrated government
> approved speedometer," or whether he's just a compulsive Munchausen
> who plans to keep changing his stories until they're believed--who's
> going to believe his next implausible story? He'll just claim that
> everyone who doubted him was making foolish assumptions and should
> have realized that he was drafting a truck downhill. Or that the sun
> was up, just in Thailand, not Ireland. Or whatever dodge he thinks
> will keep people talking to him.
>
> If you met a fellow who told stories that way outside the internet,
> you'd simply walk away from him and his explanations about how honest
> he is.
>
> I don't plan to feed the troll.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel

Well said!

Of course, we now know that "Andrew McCoy, aka Andre Jute" is the
answer to the question "What happens when the bald faced lies of Bill
Baka join forces with the towering ego of Jobst Brandt?".

 

[Michael Press]

In article <invalid-9F1057.18593024012008@shawnews>,
Ralph Barone <invalid@not_real.ca> wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Andre Jute wrote:
> > > On Jan 23, 8:27 pm, Andrew Price <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:43:15 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
> > >>
> > >> [---]
> > >>
> > >>> And I'd still be pleased to find that my skepticism is wrong and that
> > >>> there is a paved farm lane long enough and steep enough for that kind
> > >>> of bike to do well over 100 kmh.
> > >> Patience, patience my good man ! That will all be confirmed as soon as
> > >> Mr Jute posts a reference to the relevant Google Maps page ...
> > >
> > > Yes, I was amazed that Fogel should start calling me a liar before I
> > > could even answer. I hadn't realized that, in Fogel's McCathyite
> > > worldview, rec.bicycles.tech is so largely populated by liars that
> > > anyone saying the sun shines outside should first present a notarized
> > > report from the weather bureau. Mind you, I was amused by some of
> > > Fogel's erroneous presumptions, like the farm lane being "private",
> > > which is putting words into my mouth that I never spoke.
> > >
> > This would not be the first time, or even second time that Mr. Fogel has
> > erroneously called someone a liar on rec.bicycles.*.
>
> This would not be the first time, or even second time that somebody has
> called Mr Jute a liar either. You just need to look in rec.audio.*
> instead of rec.bicycling.*.

I just now looked. Let the games begin.
Andre, Pee Wee Herman wants his bicycle returned.

> Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, so you should not
> be surprised when people question claims which appear to be hanging
> three standard deviations off the center of the bell curve.

--
Michael Press

 

[Michael Press]

In article
<e4ef5f22-05b8-4340-9eda-0950aad6f7b3@m34g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
[email protected] wrote:

> On Jan 23, 2:00 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >
> > I'd love to be convinced that Andre has actually gone well over 100
> > kmh down some private farm road on that bike, but experience leads me
> > to expect otherwise.
>
> Well, he could have been drafting Bill Baka's tricycle. ;-)

We have a winnah!

--
Michael Press

 

[Michael Press]

In article <invalid-9F1057.18593024012008@shawnews>,
Ralph Barone <invalid@not_real.ca> wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Andre Jute wrote:
> > > On Jan 23, 8:27 pm, Andrew Price <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:43:15 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
> > >>
> > >> [---]
> > >>
> > >>> And I'd still be pleased to find that my skepticism is wrong and that
> > >>> there is a paved farm lane long enough and steep enough for that kind
> > >>> of bike to do well over 100 kmh.
> > >> Patience, patience my good man ! That will all be confirmed as soon as
> > >> Mr Jute posts a reference to the relevant Google Maps page ...
> > >
> > > Yes, I was amazed that Fogel should start calling me a liar before I
> > > could even answer. I hadn't realized that, in Fogel's McCathyite
> > > worldview, rec.bicycles.tech is so largely populated by liars that
> > > anyone saying the sun shines outside should first present a notarized
> > > report from the weather bureau. Mind you, I was amused by some of
> > > Fogel's erroneous presumptions, like the farm lane being "private",
> > > which is putting words into my mouth that I never spoke.
> > >
> > This would not be the first time, or even second time that Mr. Fogel has
> > erroneously called someone a liar on rec.bicycles.*.
>
> This would not be the first time, or even second time that somebody has
> called Mr Jute a liar either. You just need to look in rec.audio.*
> instead of rec.bicycling.*.
>
> Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, so you should not
> be surprised when people question claims which appear to be hanging
> three standard deviations off the center of the bell curve.

To save others a bit of work, here is one side of the argument
from rec.audio.tubes.

<2ae7e6c0-9f72-4295-a6c6-a3c45064b2b6@r60g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>

--
Michael Press

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article
<[email protected]>,
Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Jan 25, 3:40 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> > On Jan 25, 10:08 am, Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > I deliberately delayed giving a full explanation, and several
> > > times gave Fogel the tip that he made wrong assumptions, to give
> > > him time to apologize. He didn't.
> >
> > And he shouldn't.
> >
> > - Frank Krygowski
>
> Too late now, Frank. We've all seen that Fogel is dumb enough to make
> unwarranted assumptions and from there to jump to erroneous
> conclusions and unfounded accusations.
>
> You're the one keeping this unpleasantness alive. I don't care ****
> what Fogel says. He's had his chance. So why not let it ride so we
> can keep at least the semblance of civility?

Your actions belie your words. The hint of troll is getting ever
stronger.

 

[[email protected]]

On Jan 25, 12:20 pm, Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Andre Jute
> Zero patience for Monday morning quarterbacks

And I have no patience for deceptive advertisers. Nor for trolls.

- Frank Krygowski

 

[Andre Jute]

On Jan 25, 7:13 pm, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <invalid-9F1057.18593024012008@shawnews>,
>  Ralph Barone <invalid@not_real.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> >  Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Andre Jute wrote:
> > > > On Jan 23, 8:27 pm, Andrew Price <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:43:15 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > >> [---]
>
> > > >>> And I'd still be pleased to find that my skepticism is wrong and that
> > > >>> there is a paved farm lane long enough and steep enough for that kind
> > > >>> of bike to do well over 100 kmh.
> > > >> Patience, patience my good man ! That will all be confirmed as soonas
> > > >> Mr Jute posts a reference to the relevant Google Maps page ...
>
> > > > Yes, I was amazed that Fogel should start calling me a liar before I
> > > > could even answer. I hadn't realized that, in Fogel's McCathyite
> > > > worldview, rec.bicycles.tech is so largely populated by liars that
> > > > anyone saying the sun shines outside should first present a notarized
> > > > report from the weather bureau. Mind you, I was amused by some of
> > > > Fogel's erroneous presumptions, like the farm lane being "private",
> > > > which is putting words into my mouth that I never spoke.
>
> > > This would not be the first time, or even second time that Mr. Fogel has
> > > erroneously called someone a liar on rec.bicycles.*.
>
> > This would not be the first time, or even second time that somebody has
> > called Mr Jute a liar either.  You just need to look in rec.audio.*
> > instead of rec.bicycling.*.
>
> I just now looked.

If you looked, did you find out who this Ralph Barone is? Is he one of
those anklenippers still smouldering because he was a camp follower to
the Magnequest Scum who got scorched a little when I burned them? I
don't have time to waste looking up every resentful little wannebe
flame warrior, so I'd be glad if you would share what you learned with
me.

>Let the games begin.

With so many bloodthirsty jokers screaming for blood on the carpet,
I'm starting to generate a sneaking regard for the monk Telemachus, he
whose fame rests largely on being the spoilsport who closed down the
Colosseum.

> Andre, Pee Wee Herman wants his bicycle returned.

Who's Pee Wee Herman? I'm sorry, you'll have to explain your joke, if
it is a joke, of course.

> > Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, so you should not
> > be surprised when people question claims which appear to be hanging
> > three standard deviations off the center of the bell curve.

Was this Barone berk always this pompous? Hell, no wonder I trashed
him from my hard disk at the first opportunity.

> --
> Michael Press

What's your relationship to Barone and Pee Wee Herman, Michael -- do
you supply their trainer wheels?

Andre Jute
Infinitely curious

 

[Andre Jute]

Carl Fogel now admits he called me a liar. His "evidence" is that a
calibrated recording speedometer fitted by law to longdistance trucks
in Europe is "implausible". Fogel further says irrationally that
anything I say in future will be a lie. Fogel has been caught out
before erroneously accusing innocent parties of lying; I don't know if
he went as far as to claim anything they said in future would also be
a lie. I gave him an opportunity to reexamine his assumptions and back
off: he tries to make that into an element of deceit. He puts words I
never spoke into my mouth in his attempts to prove his points. He
refuses to apologise.

Carl Fogel is a liar and has neither morality nor manners. That's a
pretty good definition of netscum.

Unlike the habit of Fogel and his fellow travellers of snipping my
messages out of context, I reprint Fogel's self-incriminating letter
in full below.

Andre Jute
Zero tolerance for the enemies of fidelity

Here's Fogel's letter in full:

On Jan 25, 6:47 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 07:40:44 -0800 (PST), [email protected] wrote:
> >On Jan 25, 10:08 am, Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> I deliberately delayed giving a full explanation, and several times
> >> gave Fogel the tip that he made wrong assumptions, to give him time to
> >> apologize. He didn't.
>
> >And he shouldn't.
>
> >- Frank Krygowski
>
> Dear Frank,
>
> I won't.
>
> First Andre started off with the casual comment that he did well over
> 100 kmh "downhill, of course."
>
> When several people pointed out the unlikelihood of that, he whined
> that we might as well ask for proof that the sun came up.
>
> Pressed for the place, he came up with an obscure road.
>
> Gradually he developed a whole new story involving a truck and
> recording his speed "on a certified calibrated government approved
> speedometer."
>
> It's just as plausible as his original story. If encouraged, he'd
> probably develop a long story about that amazing speedometer and why
> he didn't mention the speed that it supposedly recorded.
>
> His story wouldn't show any awareness that his "downhill, of course"
> was nonsense--riders have been beating 60 mph while drafting on the
> flats for over a century.
>
> It doesn't really matter whether Andre actually thinks that it's
> necessary to add "downhill, of course" while not mentioning "behind a
> truck," whether he really knows of a "certified calibrated government
> approved speedometer," or whether he's just a compulsive Munchausen
> who plans to keep changing his stories until they're believed--who's
> going to believe his next implausible story? He'll just claim that
> everyone who doubted him was making foolish assumptions and should
> have realized that he was drafting a truck downhill. Or that the sun
> was up, just in Thailand, not Ireland. Or whatever dodge he thinks
> will keep people talking to him.
>
> If you met a fellow who told stories that way outside the internet,
> you'd simply walk away from him and his explanations about how honest
> he is.
>
> I don't plan to feed the troll.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel

 

[Andre Jute]

On Jan 25, 8:04 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Jan 25, 12:20 pm, Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Andre Jute
> > Zero patience for Monday morning quarterbacks
>
> And I have no patience for deceptive advertisers.  Nor for trolls.
>
> - Frank Krygowski

Hey, Frank, I told you several times your assumptions were wrong. If
you can't take a broad hint to shut up until the facts are in, don't
blame me when you look like a fool for shooting off your mouth. The
guys with their brains in gear who patiently asked the right questions
didn't make fools of themselves like you and Fogel did. It is not my
problem if you two are Darwinian accidents looking for a place to
happen. That premature ejaculator Fogel maliciously rushed in to call
me a liar without giving me a chance to answer questions, and is now
reduced to ludicrously irrational claims that anything i say in future
will be a lie. Both of you were deliberately deaf to explicit
warnings. You did it to yourselves.

Andre Jute
Relentless rigour -- Gaius Germanicus

 

[Clive George]

"Andre Jute" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:c625901a-3613-4bd6-8782-338a5348e3c5@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

>Hey, Frank, I told you several times your assumptions were wrong. If
>you can't take a broad hint to shut up until the facts are in, don't
>blame me when you look like a fool for shooting off your mouth. The
>guys with their brains in gear who patiently asked the right questions
>didn't make fools of themselves like you and Fogel did. It is not my
>problem if you two are Darwinian accidents looking for a place to
>happen. That premature ejaculator Fogel maliciously rushed in to call
>me a liar without giving me a chance to answer questions, and is now
>reduced to ludicrously irrational claims that anything i say in future
>will be a lie. Both of you were deliberately deaf to explicit
>warnings. You did it to yourselves.

Question is, are you here to shout at people, or for other reasons?

You could carry on digging yourself into a flame war, which will merely make
you look like an argumentative loser, or you could have stopped before you
started insulting people, which would have kept you the moral high ground.
Oops, too late

clive

 

[Tom Sherman]

Andre Jute wrote:
> On Jan 25, 2:27 am, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> [email protected] aka Frank Krygowski wrote:> On Jan 24, 7:25 am, Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Yes, I was amazed that Fogel should start calling me a liar before I
>>>> could even answer.
>>> Hmm. I didn't realize he'd called you a liar. What I see instead is
>>> this rather mild statement: "I'd love to be convinced that Andre has
>>> actually gone well over 100
>>> kmh down some private farm road on that bike, but experience leads me
>>> to expect otherwise."...
>> "Dear Carl's" meaning was perfectly clear.
>
> And repeated several times. No one except the blind and deaf or
> unthinkingly partisan could mistake Carl Fogel's intention to call me
> a liar before I even had a chance to answer Clive George's question..
>
> I deliberately delayed giving a full explanation, and several times
> gave Fogel the tip that he made wrong assumptions, to give him time to
> apologize. He didn't.
>
Do not hold your breath waiting for an apology or retraction from Mr.
Fogel - this is at least the third time he has posted false accusations
of lying or rec.bicycles.tech, and has never recanted on the first two.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

 

[Tom Sherman]

Tim McNamara wrote:
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Jan 25, 3:40 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Jan 25, 10:08 am, Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I deliberately delayed giving a full explanation, and several
>>>> times gave Fogel the tip that he made wrong assumptions, to give
>>>> him time to apologize. He didn't.
>>> And he shouldn't.
>>>
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>> Too late now, Frank. We've all seen that Fogel is dumb enough to make
>> unwarranted assumptions and from there to jump to erroneous
>> conclusions and unfounded accusations.
>>
>> You're the one keeping this unpleasantness alive. I don't care ****
>> what Fogel says. He's had his chance. So why not let it ride so we
>> can keep at least the semblance of civility?
>
> Your actions belie your words. The hint of troll is getting ever
> stronger.
>
Mr. Jute's post was a troll in that it did attempt to lead people down
the wrong path. However, Mr. Fogel has some history on this newsgroup of
coming to the wrong conclusions, but never admitting his error.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

 

[Tom Sherman]

Andre Jute wrote:
> ...
>> Andre, Pee Wee Herman wants his bicycle returned.
>
> Who's Pee Wee Herman? I'm sorry, you'll have to explain your joke, if
> it is a joke, of course.
>
See <http://img24.photobucket.com/albums/v72/pickin_boogers/peewee.jpg>
and <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Reubens>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

 

[Ben C]

On 2008-01-26, Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
[...]
> Mr. Jute's post was a troll in that it did attempt to lead people down
> the wrong path. However, Mr. Fogel has some history on this newsgroup of
> coming to the wrong conclusions, but never admitting his error.

What makes you so sure Mr Jute isn't lying? I thought Mr Fogel made a
good case.

 

[[email protected]]

On Jan 26, 12:25 pm, Ben C <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2008-01-26, Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
> [...]
>
> > Mr. Jute's post was a troll in that it did attempt to lead people down
> > the wrong path. However, Mr. Fogel has some history on this newsgroup of
> > coming to the wrong conclusions, but never admitting his error.
>
> What makes you so sure Mr Jute isn't lying? I thought Mr Fogel made a
> good case.

Agreed. We're dealing with a troll who openly brags about misleading
and deceiving people, while simultaneously posting a house-of-cards
tower of improbabilities.

It's not impossible he found a wonderfully smooth, yet steep and
isolated farm road in rural Ireland. It's not impossible he knows
someone with a truck. It's not impossible he acquired the proper
hardware to hold the rear doors open just so, and fixed plywood to the
lower tail of the truck, and worked out a towing scheme, and
successfully got towed up to high speed, and successfully released on
the steepest part of the short hill, and had the driver synchronize
their accelerating speeds exactly to keep him within the stable draft,
and briefly hit 100 kph, then quickly braked to a safe stop without
being crashed by intense buffeting.

And it's not impossible he did this risky, complicated trick (in
street clothes!) just in case he might someday get a chance to brag
about it on rec.bicycles.tech, but never bothered to publicize it
elsewhere.

On the other hand, it's also possible he's a lying troll.

Personally, I find Bill Baka to be much more believable, and much more
personable.

- Frank Krygowski

 

[Tom Sherman]

Ben C? wrote:
> On 2008-01-26, Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
> [...]
>> Mr. Jute's post was a troll in that it did attempt to lead people down
>> the wrong path. However, Mr. Fogel has some history on this newsgroup of
>> coming to the wrong conclusions, but never admitting his error.
>
> What makes you so sure Mr Jute isn't lying? I thought Mr Fogel made a
> good case.
>
I do not know if Mr. Jute is lying or not. Neither does Mr. Fogel.
However, I know of at least two (2) cases on Usenet where Mr. Fogel has
made incorrect accusations of lying; and furthermore, that Mr. Fogel has
never offered a retraction in either case.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

 

[[email protected]]

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 09:59:55 -0800 (PST), [email protected] wrote:

>On Jan 26, 12:25 pm, Ben C <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 2008-01-26, Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> [...]
>>
>> > Mr. Jute's post was a troll in that it did attempt to lead people down
>> > the wrong path. However, Mr. Fogel has some history on this newsgroup of
>> > coming to the wrong conclusions, but never admitting his error.
>>
>> What makes you so sure Mr Jute isn't lying? I thought Mr Fogel made a
>> good case.
>
>Agreed. We're dealing with a troll who openly brags about misleading
>and deceiving people, while simultaneously posting a house-of-cards
>tower of improbabilities.
>
>It's not impossible he found a wonderfully smooth, yet steep and
>isolated farm road in rural Ireland. It's not impossible he knows
>someone with a truck. It's not impossible he acquired the proper
>hardware to hold the rear doors open just so, and fixed plywood to the
>lower tail of the truck, and worked out a towing scheme, and
>successfully got towed up to high speed, and successfully released on
>the steepest part of the short hill, and had the driver synchronize
>their accelerating speeds exactly to keep him within the stable draft,
>and briefly hit 100 kph, then quickly braked to a safe stop without
>being crashed by intense buffeting.
>
>And it's not impossible he did this risky, complicated trick (in
>street clothes!) just in case he might someday get a chance to brag
>about it on rec.bicycles.tech, but never bothered to publicize it
>elsewhere.
>
>On the other hand, it's also possible he's a lying troll.
>
>Personally, I find Bill Baka to be much more believable, and much more
>personable.
>
>- Frank Krygowski

Dear Frank,

Sometimes when you flip over a rock, you find amazing things:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.audio.pro/msg/192e933593bef951

First, Andrew McCoy/Andre Jute claims that he threw a log thirty paces
to hit a tree and detonate a cigar tube full of nitrogylcerin, stuffed
into a hole drilled into the tree's four-foot thick trunk.

Few people claim to be able to throw logs 90 feet. A rock would have
been more plausible, but it would have been less impressive.

Then Jute / McCoy claims that the explosion from within the tree blew
him thirty paces away--

And fifteen feet _up_ into a tree.

Few people claim to survive explosions 90 feet away that hurl them
another 90 feet horizontally and 15 feet vertically. (Even fewer
people make such claims for a mere cigar tube of nitroglycerin
surrounded by two feet of solid wood--for that kind of effect, most of
us would make up a 50-pound bomb dropped by the Air Force.)

But presumably it will turn out that all distances were measured with
a "certified calibrated government approved" pedometer.

And the strange upward trajectory of McCoy / Jute will be explained by
the fact that he merely forgot to mention that he rode a cannonball to
the moon--

Er, Baron von Munchausen rode a cannonball fifteen feet _up_ into the
tree.

The nicest touch in the story is the "black tree snake" that was
spectating in the tree and refused to bite our hero.

Anyone who doubts the snake will be informed that the late Steve Irwin
certified the serpent on a "calibrated government approved"
herpetometer.

My fellow travellers (communists who don't get along well with my crew
of right-wing McCarthy-ites) will be pleased to learn that I've added
"certified calibrated government-approved" South African assassins and
a squad of South American Nazis to our ranks.

Really.

No fooling.

At least, that's what Andre Jute / Andrew McCoy says:

"The apartheid security police, BOSS, twice sent assassins after
novelist Andrew McCoy on publication of 'Atrocity Week' and 'The
Insurrectionist'. South American Nazis hunted him for 'Cain's
Courage'."
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/THE%20WRITER'S%20HOUSE.html

Since tree snakes have failed my communist/right-wing/apartheid/nazi
coalition, I plan to terminate Jute / McCoy with mild prejudice next
spring by mailing one of these creatures to Ireland with instructions
to hunt him down:
http://i13.tinypic.com/53sdipy.jpg

The "certified calibrated government-approved" ruler next to my
cold-blooded assassin is 18 feet long, so Jute / McCoy will have no
chance at all.

Oops! Make that 18 inches. But it can tear a bullfrog to pieces with
those claws, so he'd better hope that it glides "away with only a
single disdainful look over its shoulder" when he finds it in his bath
tub.

Yikes! A nut who claims on his web site that the South African
government is sending assassins after them and that South American
Nazis are hunting him! Luckily, he blows himself up and hides in
trees.

I thought he was a blow-hard from the get-go, but I had no idea that
he was so flamboyant.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[Lou Holtman]

Tom Sherman wrote:
> Ben C? wrote:
>> On 2008-01-26, Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> [...]
>>> Mr. Jute's post was a troll in that it did attempt to lead people
>>> down the wrong path. However, Mr. Fogel has some history on this
>>> newsgroup of coming to the wrong conclusions, but never admitting his
>>> error.
>>
>> What makes you so sure Mr Jute isn't lying? I thought Mr Fogel made a
>> good case.
> >
> I do not know if Mr. Jute is lying or not. Neither does Mr. Fogel.
> However, I know of at least two (2) cases on Usenet where Mr. Fogel has
> made incorrect accusations of lying; and furthermore, that Mr. Fogel has
> never offered a retraction in either case.
>


Again were talking about persons instead of content. As soon as Mr Jute
revealed his 'trick' I lost interest, and thought 'idiot' whether it was
true or not. Speed towed by a car or truck doesn't count for me.

Lou

 

[Andre Jute]

On Jan 26, 5:00 pm, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Andre Jute wrote:
> > On Jan 25, 2:27 am, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >> [email protected] aka Frank Krygowski wrote:> On Jan 24, 7:25 am, Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> Yes, I was amazed that Fogel should start calling me a liar before I
> >>>> could even answer.
> >>> Hmm.  I didn't realize he'd called you a liar.  What I see insteadis
> >>> this rather mild statement:  "I'd love to be convinced that Andre has
> >>> actually gone well over 100
> >>> kmh down some private farm road on that bike, but experience leads me
> >>> to expect otherwise."...
> >> "Dear Carl's" meaning was perfectly clear.
>
> > And repeated several times. No one except the blind and deaf or
> > unthinkingly partisan could mistake Carl Fogel's intention to call me
> > a liar before I even had a chance to answer Clive George's question..
>
> > I deliberately delayed giving a full explanation, and several times
> > gave Fogel the tip that he made wrong assumptions, to give him time to
> > apologize. He didn't.
>
>  >
> Do not hold your breath waiting for an apology or retraction from Mr.
> Fogel - this is at least the third time he has posted false accusations
> of lying or rec.bicycles.tech, and has never recanted on the first two.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> "And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
> - A. Derleth

Perhaps you could let me have references to Fogel's lies. Sometimes
when I run across a particularly virulent of example of mouthfoaming
netscum I write a little article to make a moral midget notorious
above his stature.

Andre Jute
Freak show barker