Changing from threaded headset to threadless



K

Ken M

Guest
I would like to change my forks from the stock suspension fork to this
one at nashbar:
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=86&subcategory=1182&sku=13283&brand=\
but this one is a threadless stem system and the one currently on my
bike is of the threaded design. I have no experience with the threadless
design. But I'm somewhat familiar with the threaded. I have looked at
this page at park tools site:
http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=65 and of course they
want you to purchase all their tools to do the job. And they make it
look complicated. Is it as complex as they make it out to be? This is
the bike I want to do the conversion on:
http://www.raleighusa.com/items.asp?deptid=7&itemid=228&va=0 Can a
novice do this, or should I have a local bike shop do it for me?

Ken

--
Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride. ~John F. Kennedy
 
Ken,

There are real bike shop guys here and they'll tell you the real truth.
What follows is the "barbarian in a garage" truth. I think threadless
headsets are easier to set up than threaded ones. The rumour I believe
is that's why they exist, so it will be easier to mass produce the
bicycles with no skill involved, just a preset torque air wrench.

* Hex Wrenches, for stem removal

Well, I guess. Back out the clamp bolt (using a hex wrench, 5 mm?) on
the stem and whock it with a hammer. Protect the bolt (and stem) with a
scrap of wood. Send the stem to me.

Unscrew the headset cap and put it in a zip loc plastic bag. Take off
the spacer, and unscrew the top fork race, this usually needs a 32 mm
special wrench or a 12 inch adjustable wrench. It's big. Put them and
the bearings in the bag. Slide the fork out and put the lower bearings
in the bag.

* Race Remover

I use a steel rod or a tube or a screwdriver. Slide it inside the
headtube and rest it against the bearing race. Tap one side then tap the
other side. Repeat. It will eventually fall out. Do the other race.

There's a race on the fork too. Same deal. Tap one side and then the
other. It will eventually come off. They're tight. Put the races in the
bag, seal it and send it to me.

* Headset Press

Make sure you know which race is top and which is bottom. Usually the
one with the more umbrella shape is the bottom one. To keep out rain.
Rest the lower race on a piece of wood, put a piece of wood on the top
of the headtube and tap the headtube so that the race goes up into the
headtube and bottoms. If this is really really tight and it feels like
it doesn't want to go in: take it to your lbs and let them try their
headset press.

* Crown Race Puller
I think he probably tells you what I told you above.

* Crown Race Installer
Put the crown race on the fork, put the dropouts on some wood, and clamp
and adjustable wrench tight around the fork. Tap down on both sides
of the wrench alternately and it will go on. This tends to damage the
paint on the steerer but since it's going inside the headtube anyway ...
I hope you ordered the right size there's 27.0 and 26.4 mm.

* Degreaser

Well, if you're sending me the unused parts ... Seriously, I clean
everything before I put it back together. Plus I lubricate everything as
I put it together. Bearings want to be well lubricated with "surgically
clean" grease.

* Measuring Caliper
Useful when you can't get the crown race on. It helps you figure out
why. I have hand filed down the seat to make a 26.4 fit, but as noted
above I'm a barbarian.

* Rags
I typically use the seat of my pants, but as noted above ...

Charles

PS As philosophy I like to get the tools and and do it myself even if it
ends up being slightly more expensive. And even if I end up having to
take it to my lbs. If you have the tools and the will the knowledge will
come.

Ken M wrote:
> I would like to change my forks from the stock suspension fork to this
> one at nashbar:
> http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=86&subcategory=1182&sku=13283&brand=\
> but this one is a threadless stem system and the one currently on my
> bike is of the threaded design. I have no experience with the threadless
> design. But I'm somewhat familiar with the threaded. I have looked at
> this page at park tools site:
> http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=65 and of course they
> want you to purchase all their tools to do the job. And they make it
> look complicated. Is it as complex as they make it out to be? This is
> the bike I want to do the conversion on:
> http://www.raleighusa.com/items.asp?deptid=7&itemid=228&va=0 Can a
> novice do this, or should I have a local bike shop do it for me?
>
> Ken
>
 
In article <[email protected]>, Charles Smith
<[email protected]> wrote:

> * Headset Press
>
> Make sure you know which race is top and which is bottom. Usually the
> one with the more umbrella shape is the bottom one. To keep out rain.
> Rest the lower race on a piece of wood, put a piece of wood on the top
> of the headtube and tap the headtube so that the race goes up into the
> headtube and bottoms.


....<snip>

There is a better method to install the headset cups that doesn't
require the purchase of a dedicated tool. You can construct your home
homemade press; the parts are easily obtainable at a hardware store for
under $10.**

It's important when making your own press that particular attention be
paid to choice of bushings - don't using bushings that contact the
actual race portion of the headset cups. My homemade press has been
used to press in about 1/2 dozen headset cup pairs - both 1" and 1 1/8"
without complication. Grease the inside of the headtube before
installing.

Notwithstanding the above instructions, I would recommend to the
original poster that he turn the task of swapping out the headsets over
to the local LBS. Watch and learn the first time, try it for yourself
the second.


> PS As philosophy I like to get the tools and and do it myself even if
> it
> ends up being slightly more expensive. And even if I end up having to
> take it to my lbs. If you have the tools and the will the knowledge
> will
> come.


I've found re-ordering the formula can save $ and follicles. That is:
First the will, then the knowledge, and lastly, the tools.

Luke



**
An online description is available
here:http://www.mindspring.com/~d.g1/headset.html
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Charles Smith <[email protected]> wrote:

> There are real bike shop guys here and they'll tell you the real truth.
> What follows is the "barbarian in a garage" truth. I think threadless
> headsets are easier to set up than threaded ones. The rumour I believe
> is that's why they exist, so it will be easier to mass produce the
> bicycles with no skill involved, just a preset torque air wrench.


That may be why they are widely used. Why they exist is
another story. They were invented for off-the-road
bicycles because the quill stem design is not strong
enough for hauling on the bars the way off-the-road
cyclists do.

The design also has other advantages over the quill stem
design. This is one of those odd cases where a new design
on a bicycle is a true advance.

--
Michael Press
 
Charles Smith wrote:

> * Headset Press
>
> Rest the lower race on a piece of wood, put a piece of wood on the top
> of the headtube and tap the headtube so that the race goes up into the
> headtube and bottoms. If this is really really tight and it feels like
> it doesn't want to go in: take it to your lbs and let them try their
> headset press.


This is good advice for an _all steel_ headset, but if you try to
install a headset with aluminum or plastic parts this way you're liable
to damage it.

Sheldon "A Hammer Is Sometimes The Right Tool" Brown
Newtonville, Massachusetts
+-----------------------------------------------+
| I don't need instructions, I have a hammer. |
| -- T.W. Wier |
+-----------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
 
Uhh, are you aware that the fork you linked to is for 1-1/8th inch
headsets?

If you have a threaded headset now, your bike almost definitely has a
1-inch headtube.
 
Dave wrote:
> Uhh, are you aware that the fork you linked to is for 1-1/8th inch
> headsets?
>
> If you have a threaded headset now, your bike almost definitely has a
> 1-inch headtube.
>

Yes I am aware that the fork I linked to is for a 1 & 1/8th inch
headset. Will this be a problem? I was under the impression that if I
change the headset that will work with the fork I want to install on the
bike.

Ken
--
Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride. ~John F. Kennedy
 
Ken, confused, wrote:

> Yes I am aware that the fork I linked to is for a 1 & 1/8th inch
> headset. Will this be a problem? I was under the impression that if I
> change the headset that will work with the fork I want to install on the
> bike.


Sure, the HS will work with the fork, but not with the bike.

The head tube on the bike is the determining factor - although a
smaller headset will often work in bigger headtube with shims, the
opposite will never work.

D'ohBoy
 
D'ohBoy wrote:
> Ken, confused, wrote:
>
>
>>Yes I am aware that the fork I linked to is for a 1 & 1/8th inch
>>headset. Will this be a problem? I was under the impression that if I
>>change the headset that will work with the fork I want to install on the
>>bike.

>
>
> Sure, the HS will work with the fork, but not with the bike.
>
> The head tube on the bike is the determining factor - although a
> smaller headset will often work in bigger headtube with shims, the
> opposite will never work.
>
> D'ohBoy
>

Well the outside diameter of the headtube is HUGE, looks like a mtb
headtube. So I need to measure the inside diameter of the headtube?
Meaning I have disassemble the headset in the bike now?

Ken


--
Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride. ~John F. Kennedy
 
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:53:15 -0500, Ken M <[email protected]> wrote:

>Well the outside diameter of the headtube is HUGE, looks like a mtb
>headtube. So I need to measure the inside diameter of the headtube?
>Meaning I have disassemble the headset in the bike now?


You've got a quill stem, measure the diameter of that. If it's 22.2 mm,
it's a 1" headtube and if it's a 25.4 mm stem, it's a 1 1/8" headtube.

Jasper
 
Jasper Janssen wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:53:15 -0500, Ken M <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Well the outside diameter of the headtube is HUGE, looks like a mtb
>>headtube. So I need to measure the inside diameter of the headtube?
>>Meaning I have disassemble the headset in the bike now?

>
>
> You've got a quill stem, measure the diameter of that. If it's 22.2 mm,
> it's a 1" headtube and if it's a 25.4 mm stem, it's a 1 1/8" headtube.
>
> Jasper

Hey thanks for the advise, seems like the best I have read so far. But
part of my problem may lie in the type of headset it is also, it's an
integrated set. Seems like not too many people have experience with these.

Ken
--
Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride. ~John F. Kennedy
 
"Ken M" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jasper Janssen wrote:
> > On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:53:15 -0500, Ken M <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Well the outside diameter of the headtube is HUGE, looks like a mtb
> >>headtube. So I need to measure the inside diameter of the headtube?
> >>Meaning I have disassemble the headset in the bike now?

> >
> >
> > You've got a quill stem, measure the diameter of that. If it's 22.2 mm,
> > it's a 1" headtube and if it's a 25.4 mm stem, it's a 1 1/8" headtube.
> >
> > Jasper

> Hey thanks for the advise, seems like the best I have read so far. But
> part of my problem may lie in the type of headset it is also, it's an
> integrated set. Seems like not too many people have experience with these.


Except this latest advice refers to the fork you're wanting to replace...
The stem fits entirely within the "headtube" of the fork. I find it
unlikely that the "headtube" of the frame will be so thickwalled as to try
to support the fork other than at the two sets of headset bearings.

Headsets are probably the easient bearings to take apart on the bike, you
could either take them apart to clean them, and peek down through the top
race once you pull the fork out, see if there's space for another 1/8" of
fork. Or do this quickly at the bike shop - and maybe take a look at the
build of a 1.1/8" headset made for your frame, so you can figure out if
it'll fit.
 
Ken M wrote:

> ...it's an integrated set. Seems like not too many people have experience with these.



You had a threaded *integrated* headset? Troll! J'accuse!!!

D'ohBoy
 
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:33:36 -0500, Ken M <[email protected]> wrote:

>Hey thanks for the advise, seems like the best I have read so far. But
>part of my problem may lie in the type of headset it is also, it's an
>integrated set. Seems like not too many people have experience with these.


An integrated headset with threads? Sure dude. Pull the other one.

Jasper
 
Jasper Janssen wrote:

> An integrated headset with threads? Sure dude. Pull the other one.
>
> Jasper


Yeah thats what it is, kind of strange. But thats okay I am having the
LBS do the fork conversion job for me.

Ken
--
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the
human race. ~H.G. Wells