Charly Gaul

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Bob Martin, Dec 6, 2005.

  1. Bob Martin

    Bob Martin Guest

    Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
    He was 72.
     
    Tags:


  2. Bob Martin

    Bob Martin Guest

  3. Bob Martin wrote:

    > Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
    > He was 72.



    Another great one gone. I hope Benjo can post a suitable tribute.

    Steve

    --
    Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
    http://www.dentaltwins.com
    Brooklyn, NY
    718-258-5001
     
  4. >
    > Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
    > He was 72.


    Gaul admitted taking amphetamines when he won the tdf.
     
  5. Scott

    Scott Guest

    Callistus Valerius wrote:
    > >
    > > Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
    > > He was 72.

    >
    > Gaul admitted taking amphetamines when he won the tdf.


    So?

    Geez, he won in '58, died in '05, and you can't wait to besmirch his
    memory.
     
  6. Callistus Valerius wrote:
    > >
    > > Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
    > > He was 72.

    >
    > Gaul admitted taking amphetamines when he won the tdf.


    Yeah and who didn't take drugs then? Nobody!
    Got news for you, from the beginning of cycle racing up to the 60's
    there would have been no racing with out dope. It is just what they
    did. They also smoked and drank and gambled and womanized. Big Deal!
     
  7. Bob Schwartz

    Bob Schwartz Guest

    Callistus Valerius wrote:
    >>Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
    >>He was 72.

    >
    >
    > Gaul admitted taking amphetamines when he won the tdf.


    Dumbass,

    Of course he took amphetamines. They were legal. Everybody
    that won the Tour in the 1950s took amphetamines.

    Bob Schwartz
     
  8. benjo maso

    benjo maso Guest

    "Callistus Valerius" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > >
    >> Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
    >> He was 72.

    >
    > Gaul admitted taking amphetamines when he won the tdf.



    So what? It wasn't prohibited. Yes, he toook amphetamines, and yes, he took
    more than most other riders. Jean Kirchen, the best Luxemburg rider in
    Gaul's early years, told me that Charly once said to him: "Jean, I'm
    worried". "But why?" "Because I'm taking amphetamines". "But you dont have
    too worry about it, we're all do". "Yes, I know, but I take too much". But
    did he owe his victories to it? Hardly. On the contrary, it was more often
    counterproductive. He lost the Tour of '55 because he took too many
    amphitamine in the stage to Avignon, he almost lost the Tour of '58 because,
    having taken too much in the TT on the Mont-Ventoux, he had a breakdown next
    day. What's more, it influenced his character. It made him troublesome, too
    self-assured and convinced of his own invicibility. He lost the Tour of '56
    because he thought he didn't need his teammates. He lost the Giro of '57
    because when he stopped to have a pee, Bobet and Geminiani attacked him. Of
    course, it was against all the unwritten rules of cycling, but nobody cared:
    it served the cocky bastard right. But that wasn't the only prize he had to
    pay, It shortened his career and when he stopped he was hooked and
    everything he did - running a bar, marrying twice - went wrong. But, and
    that's the only thing that really counts, he redeemed himself. He broke with
    his past, lived more or less as a hermit and didn't want anything to do with
    cycling anymorel. It took him several years, but he recoverd completely and
    came back to the world. In the 1980's he allowed his first interviews since
    several years and when the Tour started in Luxemburg in 1989, he assited the
    ceremonies. He even went to the annual reunions of bicycle racers in the
    Beaujolais and Gemenos. And all the riders noticed that he had changed
    thouroughly. There were few traces of his self-centredness anymore, and he
    was genuinly interested in his ex-collegues and in cycling in general. He
    appeared frequently on Luxemburg TV, making comments on the Giro and the
    Tour. His favorite rider by far was Marco Pantani, whom he saw as his worthy
    successor. Pantani was honoured and went a couple of times to Luxemburg to
    see his predecessor. And when Pantani died, in spite of his poor health - he
    was hardly able to walk - Gaul flew to Italy to pay his respect to poor
    Marco. When the people at the sidewalk recognized him, they applauded and
    cheered him. So would I have done, if I had been there. He had been a great
    rider, one of the greatest climbers ever, but later in his life he also
    showed he was a great human being. May he rest in peace.

    Benjo Maso
     
  9. benjo maso wrote:
    > "Callistus Valerius" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    >>>Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
    >>>He was 72.

    >>
    >> Gaul admitted taking amphetamines when he won the tdf.

    >
    >
    >
    > So what? It wasn't prohibited. Yes, he toook amphetamines, and yes, he took
    > more than most other riders. Jean Kirchen, the best Luxemburg rider in
    > Gaul's early years, told me that Charly once said to him: "Jean, I'm
    > worried". "But why?" "Because I'm taking amphetamines". "But you dont have
    > too worry about it, we're all do". "Yes, I know, but I take too much". But
    > did he owe his victories to it? Hardly. On the contrary, it was more often
    > counterproductive. He lost the Tour of '55 because he took too many
    > amphitamine in the stage to Avignon, he almost lost the Tour of '58 because,
    > having taken too much in the TT on the Mont-Ventoux, he had a breakdown next
    > day. What's more, it influenced his character. It made him troublesome, too
    > self-assured and convinced of his own invicibility. He lost the Tour of '56
    > because he thought he didn't need his teammates. He lost the Giro of '57
    > because when he stopped to have a pee, Bobet and Geminiani attacked him. Of
    > course, it was against all the unwritten rules of cycling, but nobody cared:
    > it served the cocky bastard right. But that wasn't the only prize he had to
    > pay, It shortened his career and when he stopped he was hooked and
    > everything he did - running a bar, marrying twice - went wrong. But, and
    > that's the only thing that really counts, he redeemed himself. He broke with
    > his past, lived more or less as a hermit and didn't want anything to do with
    > cycling anymorel. It took him several years, but he recoverd completely and
    > came back to the world. In the 1980's he allowed his first interviews since
    > several years and when the Tour started in Luxemburg in 1989, he assited the
    > ceremonies. He even went to the annual reunions of bicycle racers in the
    > Beaujolais and Gemenos. And all the riders noticed that he had changed
    > thouroughly. There were few traces of his self-centredness anymore, and he
    > was genuinly interested in his ex-collegues and in cycling in general. He
    > appeared frequently on Luxemburg TV, making comments on the Giro and the
    > Tour. His favorite rider by far was Marco Pantani, whom he saw as his worthy
    > successor. Pantani was honoured and went a couple of times to Luxemburg to
    > see his predecessor. And when Pantani died, in spite of his poor health - he
    > was hardly able to walk - Gaul flew to Italy to pay his respect to poor
    > Marco. When the people at the sidewalk recognized him, they applauded and
    > cheered him. So would I have done, if I had been there. He had been a great
    > rider, one of the greatest climbers ever, but later in his life he also
    > showed he was a great human being. May he rest in peace.
    >
    > Benjo Maso
    >
    >


    Thanks, Benjo.

    Steve
     
  10. Kenny

    Kenny Guest

    Dauphiné-Libéré
    1953 2nd 1. Teisseire, L. - 2. Gaul, C. - 3. Robic, J.

    Tour de France
    1955 3rd 1. Bobet, L. - 2. Brankart, J. - 3. Gaul, C. - 4. Fornara, P.
    - 5. Rolland, A.
    1958 1st 1. Gaul, C. - 2. Favero, V. - 3. Geminiani, R. - 4.
    Adriaensens, J. - 5. Nencini, G.
    1961 3rd 1. Anquetil, J. - 2. Carlesi, G. - 3. Gaul, C. - 4.
    Massignan, I. - 5. Junkermann, H.

    Giro d'Italia
    1956 1st 1. Gaul, C. - 2. Magni, F. - 3. Coletto, A. - 4. Maule, C. -
    5. Moser, A.
    1957 4th 1. Nencini, G. - 2. Bobet, L. - 3. Baldini, E. - 4. Gaul, C.
    - 5. Geminiani, R.
    1959 1st 1. Gaul, C. - 2. Anquetil, J. - 3. Ronchini, D. - 4. Van
    Looy, R. - 5. Massignan, I.
    1960 3rd 1. Anquetil, J. - 2. Nencini, G. - 3. Gaul, C. - 4.
    Massignan, I. - 5. Hoevenaers, J.
    1961 4th 1. Pambianco, A. - 2. Anquetil, J. - 3. Suarez, A. - 4. Gaul,
    C. - 5. Carlesi, G.

    Tour de France KOM
    1955 1st 1. Gaul, C. - 2. Bobet, L. - 3. Brankart, J.
    1956 1st 1. Gaul, C. - 2. Bahamontes, F. - 3. Huot, V.
    1958 2nd 1. Bahamontes, F. - 2. Gaul, C. - 3. Dotto, J.
    1959 2nd 1. Bahamontes, F. - 2. Gaul, C. - 3. Saint, G.
    1961 2nd 1. Massignan, I. - 2. Gaul, C. - 3. Junkermann, H.

    Wordchampionship
    1954 3rd 1. Bobet, L. - 2. Schaer, F. - 3. Gaul, C. - 4. Gismondi, M.
    - 5. Anquetil, J.
     
  11. >
    > So what? It wasn't prohibited. Yes, he toook amphetamines, and yes, he

    took
    > more than most other riders. Jean Kirchen, the best Luxemburg rider in
    > Gaul's early years, told me that Charly once said to him: "Jean, I'm
    > worried". "But why?" "Because I'm taking amphetamines". "But you dont have
    > too worry about it, we're all do". "Yes, I know, but I take too much". But
    > did he owe his victories to it? Hardly. On the contrary, it was more often
    > counterproductive. He lost the Tour of '55 because he took too many
    > amphitamine in the stage to Avignon, he almost lost the Tour of '58

    because,
    > having taken too much in the TT on the Mont-Ventoux, he had a breakdown

    next
    > day. What's more, it influenced his character. It made him troublesome,

    too
    > self-assured and convinced of his own invicibility. He lost the Tour of

    '56
    > because he thought he didn't need his teammates. He lost the Giro of '57
    > because when he stopped to have a pee, Bobet and Geminiani attacked him.

    Of
    > course, it was against all the unwritten rules of cycling, but nobody

    cared:
    > it served the cocky bastard right. But that wasn't the only prize he had

    to
    > pay, It shortened his career and when he stopped he was hooked and
    > everything he did - running a bar, marrying twice - went wrong. But, and
    > that's the only thing that really counts, he redeemed himself. He broke

    with
    > his past, lived more or less as a hermit and didn't want anything to do

    with
    > cycling anymorel. It took him several years, but he recoverd completely

    and
    > came back to the world. In the 1980's he allowed his first interviews

    since
    > several years and when the Tour started in Luxemburg in 1989, he assited

    the
    > ceremonies. He even went to the annual reunions of bicycle racers in the
    > Beaujolais and Gemenos. And all the riders noticed that he had changed
    > thouroughly. There were few traces of his self-centredness anymore, and he
    > was genuinly interested in his ex-collegues and in cycling in general. He
    > appeared frequently on Luxemburg TV, making comments on the Giro and the
    > Tour. His favorite rider by far was Marco Pantani, whom he saw as his

    worthy
    > successor. Pantani was honoured and went a couple of times to Luxemburg to
    > see his predecessor. And when Pantani died, in spite of his poor health -

    he
    > was hardly able to walk - Gaul flew to Italy to pay his respect to poor
    > Marco. When the people at the sidewalk recognized him, they applauded and
    > cheered him. So would I have done, if I had been there. He had been a

    great
    > rider, one of the greatest climbers ever, but later in his life he also
    > showed he was a great human being. May he rest in peace.
    >
    > Benjo Maso


    So he was doper, and his favorite modern cyclist was another doper.
    Sounds like, from your description, that he was whooping it up on speed,
    after he retired. Like Pantini whooped it up on cocaine, after his
    retirement. I wonder if they shared a crack pipe, the times Marco visited
    him? Well, at least he didn't die from the "cycling disease" (heart attack
    by age 50), and lived a normal lifespan.
    >
    >
     
  12. The guy who cuts my hair (for like the past 15 years) was a childhood
    friend of Charly Gaul. It has made for some interesting conversations
    over the years.

    He said when they were young, they would follow the TdF religiously via
    radio, and play this game where they each had a collection of marbles,
    and each was named after one of the famous pro racers. Then they would
    roll them down hills to see who won.

    He's let me look at some old books about Charly .. unfortunately for me
    they were in French.
     
  13. Callistus Valerius wrote:

    > So he was doper, and his favorite modern cyclist was another doper.
    > Sounds like, from your description, that he was whooping it up on speed,
    > after he retired. Like Pantini whooped it up on cocaine, after his
    > retirement. I wonder if they shared a crack pipe, the times Marco visited
    > him?


    Hey, let's cop an attitude! Got any more stones handy?

    Are you testifying here that you've never used/abused any drugs,
    including alcohol, tobacco, anithistamines/"cold" meds, pain meds,
    antidepressants, cannabis-- anything whatsoever? Because if you have,
    maybe you're just lucky you can still so loudly count yourself among
    the "righteous", seeing that good people have gotten "hooked" on all
    that stuff.

    Ah, the War on People continues... --Tom Paterson
     
  14. Mad Dog

    Mad Dog Guest

    benjo maso says...

    >So what? It wasn't prohibited. Yes, he toook amphetamines, and yes, he took
    >more than most other riders. Jean Kirchen, the best Luxemburg rider in
    >Gaul's early years, told me that Charly once said to him: "Jean, I'm
    >worried". "But why?" "Because I'm taking amphetamines". "But you dont have
    >too worry about it, we're all do". "Yes, I know, but I take too much". But
    >did he owe his victories to it? Hardly. On the contrary, it was more often
    >counterproductive. He lost the Tour of '55 because he took too many
    >amphitamine in the stage to Avignon, he almost lost the Tour of '58 because,
    >having taken too much in the TT on the Mont-Ventoux, he had a breakdown next
    >day. What's more, it influenced his character. It made him troublesome, too
    >self-assured and convinced of his own invicibility. He lost the Tour of '56
    >because he thought he didn't need his teammates. He lost the Giro of '57
    >because when he stopped to have a pee, Bobet and Geminiani attacked him. Of
    >course, it was against all the unwritten rules of cycling, but nobody cared:
    >it served the cocky bastard right. But that wasn't the only prize he had to
    >pay, It shortened his career and when he stopped he was hooked and
    >everything he did - running a bar, marrying twice - went wrong. But, and
    >that's the only thing that really counts, he redeemed himself. He broke with
    >his past, lived more or less as a hermit and didn't want anything to do with
    >cycling anymorel. It took him several years, but he recoverd completely and
    >came back to the world. In the 1980's he allowed his first interviews since
    >several years and when the Tour started in Luxemburg in 1989, he assited the
    >ceremonies. He even went to the annual reunions of bicycle racers in the
    >Beaujolais and Gemenos. And all the riders noticed that he had changed
    >thouroughly. There were few traces of his self-centredness anymore, and he
    >was genuinly interested in his ex-collegues and in cycling in general. He
    >appeared frequently on Luxemburg TV, making comments on the Giro and the
    >Tour. His favorite rider by far was Marco Pantani, whom he saw as his worthy
    >successor. Pantani was honoured and went a couple of times to Luxemburg to
    >see his predecessor. And when Pantani died, in spite of his poor health - he
    >was hardly able to walk - Gaul flew to Italy to pay his respect to poor
    >Marco. When the people at the sidewalk recognized him, they applauded and
    >cheered him. So would I have done, if I had been there. He had been a great
    >rider, one of the greatest climbers ever, but later in his life he also
    >showed he was a great human being. May he rest in peace.


    Thanks for the historical summary. I happened to go exploring some of my racing
    history books in search of Gaul facts and factiods last summer when I heard his
    health was declining. But I like the mix of perspectives you present here.

    And about caffeine - despite quite a large bit of research into its
    physiological effects, it still is not all that well understood. For example,
    it is generally thought of as a stimulant but often acts as a depressent. Most
    experts classify it as a vaso-constrictor, a class of compounds often thought to
    lower athletic performance, yet many top athletes swear by its ability to
    improve their performance. And they have plenty of real world evidence to
    support those beliefs.
     
  15. >
    > Hey, let's cop an attitude! Got any more stones handy?
    >
    > Are you testifying here that you've never used/abused any drugs,
    > including alcohol, tobacco, anithistamines/"cold" meds, pain meds,
    > antidepressants, cannabis-- anything whatsoever? Because if you have,
    > maybe you're just lucky you can still so loudly count yourself among
    > the "righteous", seeing that good people have gotten "hooked" on all
    > that stuff.
    >
    > Ah, the War on People continues... --Tom Paterson


    My issue is as long as the system rewards the dopers, and punishes the
    non-dopers, the champions will always be suspect. If you don't dope, you
    don't win, it's as simple as that. Think of all the legitimate champions we
    would have had, if it wasn't for the frauds that are gaming the system today
    and yesterday.

    To answer your question, I have and continue to drink soft drinks, I
    drank coffee years ago, but do not now, I smoked a cigarette when I was 15.
    And I was down wind from a cyclist that was smoking some weed before the
    start of a road race. Do electrolyte pills count? I do use those, so I
    guess you're right, I'm a bum too.
     
  16. Callistus Valerius wrote:
    > My issue is as long as the system rewards the dopers, and punishes the
    > non-dopers, the champions will always be suspect. If you don't dope, you
    > don't win, it's as simple as that. Think of all the legitimate champions we
    > would have had, if it wasn't for the frauds that are gaming the system today
    > and yesterday.


    If it wasn't illegal (prohibited by sanctioning rules, etc etc) then
    Gaul, in particular, wasn't a "fraud". Moreover, the widespread use of
    amphetimines in the pro peloton was common knowledge-- who was being
    "fooled"?

    The "system" includes testing that isn't effective at finding doping.
    Police raids and border searches-- even poor refrigeration!-- have done
    far, far better at catching dopers and suppliers than testing blood and
    urine samples.

    If your issue is with the system, why attack only the riders? Go after
    Dick Pound and the other assholes who make rules they can't enforce--
    and don't even pretend to enforce fairly (see "Bode Miller").

    > To answer your question, I have and continue to drink soft drinks, I
    > drank coffee years ago, but do not now, I smoked a cigarette when I was 15.
    > And I was down wind from a cyclist that was smoking some weed before the
    > start of a road race. Do electrolyte pills count? I do use those, so I
    > guess you're right, I'm a bum too.


    Good thing you didn't get tested at work (assuming) Monday morning
    after you ingested that Teen Spirit. The War, you know... no
    explanations are accepted!

    Bum? I continue in bemusement at people who know about the real world,
    "how the game is played", but get all Puritanical when the subject is
    sports.

    You're entitled to your opinion inre Pantani. I saw one editorial that
    decried sympathy for him as "the easy way". Again, fine, as long as
    Pound and the like get to pay their fair share of the cost. Of course,
    that's not part of the deal, is it? --D-y
     
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