Charly Gaul



B

Bob Martin

Guest
Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
He was 72.
 
M

Mark & Steven Bornfeld

Guest
Bob Martin wrote:

> Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
> He was 72.



Another great one gone. I hope Benjo can post a suitable tribute.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
 
C

Callistus Valerius

Guest
>
> Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
> He was 72.


Gaul admitted taking amphetamines when he won the tdf.
 
S

Scott

Guest
Callistus Valerius wrote:
> >
> > Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
> > He was 72.

>
> Gaul admitted taking amphetamines when he won the tdf.


So?

Geez, he won in '58, died in '05, and you can't wait to besmirch his
memory.
 
Callistus Valerius wrote:
> >
> > Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
> > He was 72.

>
> Gaul admitted taking amphetamines when he won the tdf.


Yeah and who didn't take drugs then? Nobody!
Got news for you, from the beginning of cycle racing up to the 60's
there would have been no racing with out dope. It is just what they
did. They also smoked and drank and gambled and womanized. Big Deal!
 
B

Bob Schwartz

Guest
Callistus Valerius wrote:
>>Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
>>He was 72.

>
>
> Gaul admitted taking amphetamines when he won the tdf.


Dumbass,

Of course he took amphetamines. They were legal. Everybody
that won the Tour in the 1950s took amphetamines.

Bob Schwartz
 
B

benjo maso

Guest
"Callistus Valerius" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> >
>> Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
>> He was 72.

>
> Gaul admitted taking amphetamines when he won the tdf.



So what? It wasn't prohibited. Yes, he toook amphetamines, and yes, he took
more than most other riders. Jean Kirchen, the best Luxemburg rider in
Gaul's early years, told me that Charly once said to him: "Jean, I'm
worried". "But why?" "Because I'm taking amphetamines". "But you dont have
too worry about it, we're all do". "Yes, I know, but I take too much". But
did he owe his victories to it? Hardly. On the contrary, it was more often
counterproductive. He lost the Tour of '55 because he took too many
amphitamine in the stage to Avignon, he almost lost the Tour of '58 because,
having taken too much in the TT on the Mont-Ventoux, he had a breakdown next
day. What's more, it influenced his character. It made him troublesome, too
self-assured and convinced of his own invicibility. He lost the Tour of '56
because he thought he didn't need his teammates. He lost the Giro of '57
because when he stopped to have a pee, Bobet and Geminiani attacked him. Of
course, it was against all the unwritten rules of cycling, but nobody cared:
it served the cocky ******* right. But that wasn't the only prize he had to
pay, It shortened his career and when he stopped he was hooked and
everything he did - running a bar, marrying twice - went wrong. But, and
that's the only thing that really counts, he redeemed himself. He broke with
his past, lived more or less as a hermit and didn't want anything to do with
cycling anymorel. It took him several years, but he recoverd completely and
came back to the world. In the 1980's he allowed his first interviews since
several years and when the Tour started in Luxemburg in 1989, he assited the
ceremonies. He even went to the annual reunions of bicycle racers in the
Beaujolais and Gemenos. And all the riders noticed that he had changed
thouroughly. There were few traces of his self-centredness anymore, and he
was genuinly interested in his ex-collegues and in cycling in general. He
appeared frequently on Luxemburg TV, making comments on the Giro and the
Tour. His favorite rider by far was Marco Pantani, whom he saw as his worthy
successor. Pantani was honoured and went a couple of times to Luxemburg to
see his predecessor. And when Pantani died, in spite of his poor health - he
was hardly able to walk - Gaul flew to Italy to pay his respect to poor
Marco. When the people at the sidewalk recognized him, they applauded and
cheered him. So would I have done, if I had been there. He had been a great
rider, one of the greatest climbers ever, but later in his life he also
showed he was a great human being. May he rest in peace.

Benjo Maso
 
S

Steven Bornfeld

Guest
benjo maso wrote:
> "Callistus Valerius" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>>>Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
>>>He was 72.

>>
>> Gaul admitted taking amphetamines when he won the tdf.

>
>
>
> So what? It wasn't prohibited. Yes, he toook amphetamines, and yes, he took
> more than most other riders. Jean Kirchen, the best Luxemburg rider in
> Gaul's early years, told me that Charly once said to him: "Jean, I'm
> worried". "But why?" "Because I'm taking amphetamines". "But you dont have
> too worry about it, we're all do". "Yes, I know, but I take too much". But
> did he owe his victories to it? Hardly. On the contrary, it was more often
> counterproductive. He lost the Tour of '55 because he took too many
> amphitamine in the stage to Avignon, he almost lost the Tour of '58 because,
> having taken too much in the TT on the Mont-Ventoux, he had a breakdown next
> day. What's more, it influenced his character. It made him troublesome, too
> self-assured and convinced of his own invicibility. He lost the Tour of '56
> because he thought he didn't need his teammates. He lost the Giro of '57
> because when he stopped to have a pee, Bobet and Geminiani attacked him. Of
> course, it was against all the unwritten rules of cycling, but nobody cared:
> it served the cocky ******* right. But that wasn't the only prize he had to
> pay, It shortened his career and when he stopped he was hooked and
> everything he did - running a bar, marrying twice - went wrong. But, and
> that's the only thing that really counts, he redeemed himself. He broke with
> his past, lived more or less as a hermit and didn't want anything to do with
> cycling anymorel. It took him several years, but he recoverd completely and
> came back to the world. In the 1980's he allowed his first interviews since
> several years and when the Tour started in Luxemburg in 1989, he assited the
> ceremonies. He even went to the annual reunions of bicycle racers in the
> Beaujolais and Gemenos. And all the riders noticed that he had changed
> thouroughly. There were few traces of his self-centredness anymore, and he
> was genuinly interested in his ex-collegues and in cycling in general. He
> appeared frequently on Luxemburg TV, making comments on the Giro and the
> Tour. His favorite rider by far was Marco Pantani, whom he saw as his worthy
> successor. Pantani was honoured and went a couple of times to Luxemburg to
> see his predecessor. And when Pantani died, in spite of his poor health - he
> was hardly able to walk - Gaul flew to Italy to pay his respect to poor
> Marco. When the people at the sidewalk recognized him, they applauded and
> cheered him. So would I have done, if I had been there. He had been a great
> rider, one of the greatest climbers ever, but later in his life he also
> showed he was a great human being. May he rest in peace.
>
> Benjo Maso
>
>


Thanks, Benjo.

Steve
 
K

Kenny

Guest
Dauphiné-Libéré
1953 2nd 1. Teisseire, L. - 2. Gaul, C. - 3. Robic, J.

Tour de France
1955 3rd 1. Bobet, L. - 2. Brankart, J. - 3. Gaul, C. - 4. Fornara, P.
- 5. Rolland, A.
1958 1st 1. Gaul, C. - 2. Favero, V. - 3. Geminiani, R. - 4.
Adriaensens, J. - 5. Nencini, G.
1961 3rd 1. Anquetil, J. - 2. Carlesi, G. - 3. Gaul, C. - 4.
Massignan, I. - 5. Junkermann, H.

Giro d'Italia
1956 1st 1. Gaul, C. - 2. Magni, F. - 3. Coletto, A. - 4. Maule, C. -
5. Moser, A.
1957 4th 1. Nencini, G. - 2. Bobet, L. - 3. Baldini, E. - 4. Gaul, C.
- 5. Geminiani, R.
1959 1st 1. Gaul, C. - 2. Anquetil, J. - 3. Ronchini, D. - 4. Van
Looy, R. - 5. Massignan, I.
1960 3rd 1. Anquetil, J. - 2. Nencini, G. - 3. Gaul, C. - 4.
Massignan, I. - 5. Hoevenaers, J.
1961 4th 1. Pambianco, A. - 2. Anquetil, J. - 3. Suarez, A. - 4. Gaul,
C. - 5. Carlesi, G.

Tour de France KOM
1955 1st 1. Gaul, C. - 2. Bobet, L. - 3. Brankart, J.
1956 1st 1. Gaul, C. - 2. Bahamontes, F. - 3. Huot, V.
1958 2nd 1. Bahamontes, F. - 2. Gaul, C. - 3. Dotto, J.
1959 2nd 1. Bahamontes, F. - 2. Gaul, C. - 3. Saint, G.
1961 2nd 1. Massignan, I. - 2. Gaul, C. - 3. Junkermann, H.

Wordchampionship
1954 3rd 1. Bobet, L. - 2. Schaer, F. - 3. Gaul, C. - 4. Gismondi, M.
- 5. Anquetil, J.
 
C

Callistus Valerius

Guest
>
> So what? It wasn't prohibited. Yes, he toook amphetamines, and yes, he

took
> more than most other riders. Jean Kirchen, the best Luxemburg rider in
> Gaul's early years, told me that Charly once said to him: "Jean, I'm
> worried". "But why?" "Because I'm taking amphetamines". "But you dont have
> too worry about it, we're all do". "Yes, I know, but I take too much". But
> did he owe his victories to it? Hardly. On the contrary, it was more often
> counterproductive. He lost the Tour of '55 because he took too many
> amphitamine in the stage to Avignon, he almost lost the Tour of '58

because,
> having taken too much in the TT on the Mont-Ventoux, he had a breakdown

next
> day. What's more, it influenced his character. It made him troublesome,

too
> self-assured and convinced of his own invicibility. He lost the Tour of

'56
> because he thought he didn't need his teammates. He lost the Giro of '57
> because when he stopped to have a pee, Bobet and Geminiani attacked him.

Of
> course, it was against all the unwritten rules of cycling, but nobody

cared:
> it served the cocky ******* right. But that wasn't the only prize he had

to
> pay, It shortened his career and when he stopped he was hooked and
> everything he did - running a bar, marrying twice - went wrong. But, and
> that's the only thing that really counts, he redeemed himself. He broke

with
> his past, lived more or less as a hermit and didn't want anything to do

with
> cycling anymorel. It took him several years, but he recoverd completely

and
> came back to the world. In the 1980's he allowed his first interviews

since
> several years and when the Tour started in Luxemburg in 1989, he assited

the
> ceremonies. He even went to the annual reunions of bicycle racers in the
> Beaujolais and Gemenos. And all the riders noticed that he had changed
> thouroughly. There were few traces of his self-centredness anymore, and he
> was genuinly interested in his ex-collegues and in cycling in general. He
> appeared frequently on Luxemburg TV, making comments on the Giro and the
> Tour. His favorite rider by far was Marco Pantani, whom he saw as his

worthy
> successor. Pantani was honoured and went a couple of times to Luxemburg to
> see his predecessor. And when Pantani died, in spite of his poor health -

he
> was hardly able to walk - Gaul flew to Italy to pay his respect to poor
> Marco. When the people at the sidewalk recognized him, they applauded and
> cheered him. So would I have done, if I had been there. He had been a

great
> rider, one of the greatest climbers ever, but later in his life he also
> showed he was a great human being. May he rest in peace.
>
> Benjo Maso


So he was doper, and his favorite modern cyclist was another doper.
Sounds like, from your description, that he was whooping it up on speed,
after he retired. Like Pantini whooped it up on cocaine, after his
retirement. I wonder if they shared a crack pipe, the times Marco visited
him? Well, at least he didn't die from the "cycling disease" (heart attack
by age 50), and lived a normal lifespan.
>
>
 
The guy who cuts my hair (for like the past 15 years) was a childhood
friend of Charly Gaul. It has made for some interesting conversations
over the years.

He said when they were young, they would follow the TdF religiously via
radio, and play this game where they each had a collection of marbles,
and each was named after one of the famous pro racers. Then they would
roll them down hills to see who won.

He's let me look at some old books about Charly .. unfortunately for me
they were in French.
 
Callistus Valerius wrote:

> So he was doper, and his favorite modern cyclist was another doper.
> Sounds like, from your description, that he was whooping it up on speed,
> after he retired. Like Pantini whooped it up on cocaine, after his
> retirement. I wonder if they shared a crack pipe, the times Marco visited
> him?


Hey, let's cop an attitude! Got any more stones handy?

Are you testifying here that you've never used/abused any drugs,
including alcohol, tobacco, anithistamines/"cold" meds, pain meds,
antidepressants, cannabis-- anything whatsoever? Because if you have,
maybe you're just lucky you can still so loudly count yourself among
the "righteous", seeing that good people have gotten "hooked" on all
that stuff.

Ah, the War on People continues... --Tom Paterson
 
M

Mad Dog

Guest
benjo maso says...

>So what? It wasn't prohibited. Yes, he toook amphetamines, and yes, he took
>more than most other riders. Jean Kirchen, the best Luxemburg rider in
>Gaul's early years, told me that Charly once said to him: "Jean, I'm
>worried". "But why?" "Because I'm taking amphetamines". "But you dont have
>too worry about it, we're all do". "Yes, I know, but I take too much". But
>did he owe his victories to it? Hardly. On the contrary, it was more often
>counterproductive. He lost the Tour of '55 because he took too many
>amphitamine in the stage to Avignon, he almost lost the Tour of '58 because,
>having taken too much in the TT on the Mont-Ventoux, he had a breakdown next
>day. What's more, it influenced his character. It made him troublesome, too
>self-assured and convinced of his own invicibility. He lost the Tour of '56
>because he thought he didn't need his teammates. He lost the Giro of '57
>because when he stopped to have a pee, Bobet and Geminiani attacked him. Of
>course, it was against all the unwritten rules of cycling, but nobody cared:
>it served the cocky ******* right. But that wasn't the only prize he had to
>pay, It shortened his career and when he stopped he was hooked and
>everything he did - running a bar, marrying twice - went wrong. But, and
>that's the only thing that really counts, he redeemed himself. He broke with
>his past, lived more or less as a hermit and didn't want anything to do with
>cycling anymorel. It took him several years, but he recoverd completely and
>came back to the world. In the 1980's he allowed his first interviews since
>several years and when the Tour started in Luxemburg in 1989, he assited the
>ceremonies. He even went to the annual reunions of bicycle racers in the
>Beaujolais and Gemenos. And all the riders noticed that he had changed
>thouroughly. There were few traces of his self-centredness anymore, and he
>was genuinly interested in his ex-collegues and in cycling in general. He
>appeared frequently on Luxemburg TV, making comments on the Giro and the
>Tour. His favorite rider by far was Marco Pantani, whom he saw as his worthy
>successor. Pantani was honoured and went a couple of times to Luxemburg to
>see his predecessor. And when Pantani died, in spite of his poor health - he
>was hardly able to walk - Gaul flew to Italy to pay his respect to poor
>Marco. When the people at the sidewalk recognized him, they applauded and
>cheered him. So would I have done, if I had been there. He had been a great
>rider, one of the greatest climbers ever, but later in his life he also
>showed he was a great human being. May he rest in peace.


Thanks for the historical summary. I happened to go exploring some of my racing
history books in search of Gaul facts and factiods last summer when I heard his
health was declining. But I like the mix of perspectives you present here.

And about caffeine - despite quite a large bit of research into its
physiological effects, it still is not all that well understood. For example,
it is generally thought of as a stimulant but often acts as a depressent. Most
experts classify it as a vaso-constrictor, a class of compounds often thought to
lower athletic performance, yet many top athletes swear by its ability to
improve their performance. And they have plenty of real world evidence to
support those beliefs.
 
C

Callistus Valerius

Guest
>
> Hey, let's cop an attitude! Got any more stones handy?
>
> Are you testifying here that you've never used/abused any drugs,
> including alcohol, tobacco, anithistamines/"cold" meds, pain meds,
> antidepressants, cannabis-- anything whatsoever? Because if you have,
> maybe you're just lucky you can still so loudly count yourself among
> the "righteous", seeing that good people have gotten "hooked" on all
> that stuff.
>
> Ah, the War on People continues... --Tom Paterson


My issue is as long as the system rewards the dopers, and punishes the
non-dopers, the champions will always be suspect. If you don't dope, you
don't win, it's as simple as that. Think of all the legitimate champions we
would have had, if it wasn't for the frauds that are gaming the system today
and yesterday.

To answer your question, I have and continue to drink soft drinks, I
drank coffee years ago, but do not now, I smoked a cigarette when I was 15.
And I was down wind from a cyclist that was smoking some weed before the
start of a road race. Do electrolyte pills count? I do use those, so I
guess you're right, I'm a bum too.
 
Callistus Valerius wrote:
> My issue is as long as the system rewards the dopers, and punishes the
> non-dopers, the champions will always be suspect. If you don't dope, you
> don't win, it's as simple as that. Think of all the legitimate champions we
> would have had, if it wasn't for the frauds that are gaming the system today
> and yesterday.


If it wasn't illegal (prohibited by sanctioning rules, etc etc) then
Gaul, in particular, wasn't a "fraud". Moreover, the widespread use of
amphetimines in the pro peloton was common knowledge-- who was being
"fooled"?

The "system" includes testing that isn't effective at finding doping.
Police raids and border searches-- even poor refrigeration!-- have done
far, far better at catching dopers and suppliers than testing blood and
urine samples.

If your issue is with the system, why attack only the riders? Go after
**** Pound and the other assholes who make rules they can't enforce--
and don't even pretend to enforce fairly (see "Bode Miller").

> To answer your question, I have and continue to drink soft drinks, I
> drank coffee years ago, but do not now, I smoked a cigarette when I was 15.
> And I was down wind from a cyclist that was smoking some weed before the
> start of a road race. Do electrolyte pills count? I do use those, so I
> guess you're right, I'm a bum too.


Good thing you didn't get tested at work (assuming) Monday morning
after you ingested that Teen Spirit. The War, you know... no
explanations are accepted!

Bum? I continue in bemusement at people who know about the real world,
"how the game is played", but get all Puritanical when the subject is
sports.

You're entitled to your opinion inre Pantani. I saw one editorial that
decried sympathy for him as "the easy way". Again, fine, as long as
Pound and the like get to pay their fair share of the cost. Of course,
that's not part of the deal, is it? --D-y
 

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