Cheap Bikes vs expensive bikes - what are the real differences?

[Pyromancer]

First off, thanks to all who answered my Brompton questions, I'll be obtaining one at some point in
the not too distant future!

Having read quite a few threads (well, glanced through them when time permits, anyway), I've noticed
that the "wisdom of the group" appears to be that an entry-level machine should cost between 350 and
500 quid, and that spending well over a grand for a good upright or 'bent is perfectly reasonable.

I've never ridden an "expensive" bike, the last one I had (which got nicked) cost me a tenner 2nd
hand, and only cost the original owner about 80 quid when it was new. Big, heavy, clunky MTB type
thing, but solidly put together and seemed to work pretty well. Prior to that I'd various bikes in
the 100 quid range over the years, except I did once buy a racer off a cousin which had once cost
about 400, and that was noticeably lighter than some of the others.

Anyway, the thing I'm wondering is what, exactly, do you get for the extra money? I'm not knocking
it, just curious as to what is the real difference between a 100 quid ex-catalogue hybrid from the
bike shop down the road and the kind of (to me) esoteric hardware that gets mentioned here?

Btw, my first bike was by a company called "Vindec" (IIRC), and was a clone of the Raleigh Chopper.
3 speed S/A hub gears, soft fat tyres, great fun for a teenager though! I've not seen bikes like
that for years, does anyone still make them, or did the BMX craze kill them off?

--
- Pyromancer, speaking for himself. http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk <-- Pagan Gothic Rock!
http://www.littlematchgirl.co.uk <-- Electronic Metal! http://www.revival.stormshadow.com <-- The
Gothic Revival.

 

[The Real Slim S]

Hi, I am far from an expert on these things but will offer my opinions. I have just got a bike for
£1100 -an Orbea Liege. I am absolutely over the moon with it. I used to have a cheaper £120 "racer"
a Falcon Butler or something. All I can say is that the difference is PHENOMENAL. That cheaper racer
might have been perfectly adequate for most folks pottering about. However, I have road racing
ambitions and want to get up to speed.

For a start the Liege weighs about 8.7kg, most quality bikes will be something similar. The other
bike was nearer to 20kg !! Not much of a difference? Over 25 miles its a big difference believe me
!!! Try carrying two 15lb Christmas turkeys around with you a bit and you'll see what I mean. It
handles much better. It flys around corners and is responsive - it almost tells if you are not
riding properly

Secondly the gear changing and ratios of those gears are like comparing a clapped out mini to a BMW
M5. In another league altogether. The gear changing is light, crisp and immediate - no clanking
around whilst it misses the change and you lose all your momentum!! I feel much more confident with
the braking system. I was always very nervous on my old bike when approaching a down hill bend and I
would be braking at the top of the hill practically. Now I can sail around at speed and with
confidence about what the bike will do, no problem.

When on my old bike I sometimes got mingled in with a load of road racers on Tueday evenings when
cycling out on my own. These guys would just blow me away. Now I can easily keep up with most of
them and can overtake many of them.

I don't think you have to spend quite as much as I did but I think you will find that in cycling
like many other things in life, you really do what you pay for. The way I looked at it was that I
wanted the bike to last me two years. Okay, an "extra" £500 for a better bike over two years is
peanuts - less than a fiver or two pints of beer a week. If I was going to be Armstrong/Ullrich
material at the end of this period (not likely for a 36 year old, admitedly) then I would spend
whatever necessary. If not then I have had the enjoyment from a lovely bike. So far it has given me
great fun and I love it.

Good luck.

"Pyromancer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> First off, thanks to all who answered my Brompton questions, I'll be obtaining one at some point
> in the not too distant future!
>
> Having read quite a few threads (well, glanced through them when time permits, anyway), I've
> noticed that the "wisdom of the group" appears to be that an entry-level machine should cost
> between 350 and 500 quid, and that spending well over a grand for a good upright or 'bent is
> perfectly reasonable.
>
> I've never ridden an "expensive" bike, the last one I had (which got nicked) cost me a tenner 2nd
> hand, and only cost the original owner about 80 quid when it was new. Big, heavy, clunky MTB type
> thing, but solidly put together and seemed to work pretty well. Prior to that I'd various bikes in
> the 100 quid range over the years, except I did once buy a racer off a cousin which had once cost
> about 400, and that was noticeably lighter than some of the others.
>
> Anyway, the thing I'm wondering is what, exactly, do you get for the extra money? I'm not knocking
> it, just curious as to what is the real difference between a 100 quid ex-catalogue hybrid from the
> bike shop down the road and the kind of (to me) esoteric hardware that gets mentioned here?
>
> Btw, my first bike was by a company called "Vindec" (IIRC), and was a clone of the Raleigh
> Chopper. 3 speed S/A hub gears, soft fat tyres, great fun for a teenager though! I've not seen
> bikes like that for years, does anyone still make them, or did the BMX craze kill them off?
>
> --
> - Pyromancer, speaking for himself. http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk <-- Pagan Gothic Rock!
> http://www.littlematchgirl.co.uk <-- Electronic Metal! http://www.revival.stormshadow.com <--
> The Gothic Revival.

 

[Peter B]

"Pyromancer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Anyway, the thing I'm wondering is what, exactly, do you get for the extra money? I'm not knocking
> it, just curious as to what is the real difference between a 100 quid ex-catalogue hybrid from the
> bike shop down the road and the kind of (to me) esoteric hardware that gets mentioned here?

I bought my first "proper" mountain bike in '92 after previously owning a couple of psuedo ones. I
was a little bothered that it cost 800 quid but my doubts were swept aside during the first off-road
ride, a lot of it is subjective but quite honestly it felt so much different. It sounds corny but it
did really feel an extension of me rather than something I sit on and pedal.<1> I still own that
bike (some bits beside the frame are still original) although it spends most of the time hanging in
the garage as 3.5 years ago I bought a full susser in deference to my aging body and didn't hesitate
at paying the £1300 it cost, the subsequent enjoyment I've had is beyond costing.

As regards road bikes as a schoolboy I owned a decent one but my interest waned and when it was
re-kindled I bought a heavy gas-pipe special and didn't ride much. Then I bought a decent bike for a
bargain price and realised why I hadn't enjoyed riding, it was the feel again. After 9 years that
got trashed in an rta so I bought another £1400 bike, it's very, very nice but apart from the
improved transmission features it actually doesn't enhance my riding experience over the £800 pound
bike it replaced by a wide margin, the laws of diminishing returns I guess.

<1> This is the main thing to me, the feel and the way the bike reacts to your inputs, other
benefits are smoother operating parts but in fairness even budget range equipment performs well
these days. I also windsurf and have tinkered with flying things and the most important factor
again is response to my inputs, the better the response the more at one you feel with it. All
wasted on a trip to the paper shop of course

Pete

 

[Wafflydirtycatl]

>Anyway, the thing I'm wondering is what, exactly, do you get for the extra money? I'm not knocking
>it, just curious as to what is the real difference between a 100 quid ex-catalogue hybrid from the
>bike shop down the road and the kind of (to me) esoteric hardware that gets mentioned here?

A world of difference in quality of ride.

I had a cheapy - an eastern european made thing in bright pearly pink that weighed a ton. To ride
more than a couple of miles was *exhausting* and any incline was *knackering*. But it got me from A
to B - but it didn't *encourage* me to do more A to Bs and indeed try for A to C, D, E etc.

Then I got a better quality, lighter-weight hybrid. Instant doubling of mileage without effort. The
bike is still with me, in good nick, after 14 years. I still use it occasionally.

I now have a Bianchi San Remo. To buy new these days you are looking at about 850 squid - see
http://www.awcycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=1-0-21-1304 Mine is an older model (different colour,
same spec as far as I can see - but I've got a female specific saddle, mudguards & rear rack on
mine). It is a joy to ride. Plain & simple. It doesn't just "do" it makes cycling enjoyable, fun, a
breeze....

Don't get me wrong, my old pink peril served its purpose, but the *joy* of cycling was opened up to
me in owning a "better" bike.

Just my 0.02 euros

Cheers, helen s

~~~~~~~~~~
This is sent from a redundant email Mail sent to it is dumped My correct one can be gleaned from
h$**$*$el$**e$n$**$d$**$o$*$t**$$s$**$im$mo$ns*@a$**o$l.c$$*o$*m*$ by getting rid of the
overdependence on money and fame
~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Philthy]

> First off, thanks to all who answered my Brompton questions, I'll be obtaining one at some point
> in the not too distant future!
No bother matey...

> Anyway, the thing I'm wondering is what, exactly, do you get for the extra money? I'm not knocking
> it, just curious as to what is the real difference between a 100 quid ex-catalogue hybrid from the
> bike shop down the road and the kind of (to me) esoteric hardware that gets mentioned here?

In a nutshell (Mountain bike related, don't own a road bike!), WEIGHT, durability, handling,
Shifting is far far smoother, gear ratio's tend to be better. & the component spec is a million
miles away in quality & robustness. If you intend on using it a lot it will last far longer between
services. I could go on. But I do have a slightly different opinion on this in that I like to build
my bikes up from scratch with my own spec and have done on some cheaper frames in the past with
great success, It's nice to have something that no-one else has got.

Cya Phil
PS forgot to mention comfort, a good saddle is a must..

 

[Peter Clinch]

Pyromancer wrote:

> Having read quite a few threads (well, glanced through them when time permits, anyway), I've
> noticed that the "wisdom of the group" appears t=
o
> be that an entry-level machine should cost between 350 and 500 quid

It depends what area you're looking at. For someone starting off with a =

general purpose bike just to get about on I'd personally put a good=20 entry level at around =A3200,
for which you can get a sound basic bike=20 that does the stuff as long as it's sensibly specced
(i.e., no full=20 suspension or disc brakes at that price). In that area you've got mass=20
production economies of scale and supply competition is intense to keep=20 prices low. OTOH, if you
want good sports machinery (on or off road)=20 you'd probably be better off spending the
=A3350-=A3500 mentioned above.

> that spending well over a grand for a good upright or 'bent is perfectl=
y
> reasonable.

Yup!

> Anyway, the thing I'm wondering is what, exactly, do you get for the extra money? I'm not knocking
> it, just curious as to what is the real difference between a 100 quid ex-catalogue hybrid from the
> bike shop down the road and the kind of (to me) esoteric hardware that gets mentioned here?

Everything just works better, smoother and more easily for longer.=20 Adjustments tend to be more
infrequent, and when they need doing they're =

generally more painless. Things don't break off because they're poorly=20 made. The whole riding
experience is a more pleasurable one, with your=20 bike almost coercing you to get out and use it.

Pete. --=20 Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics,
Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email protected]
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Bikingbill]

Peter Clinch <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> Pyromancer wrote:
>
>> Having read quite a few threads (well, glanced through them when time permits, anyway), I've
>> noticed that the "wisdom of the group" appears t
> o
>> be that an entry-level machine should cost between 350 and 500 quid
>
> It depends what area you're looking at. For someone starting off with a general purpose bike just
> to get about on I'd personally put a good entry level at around £200, for which you can get a
> sound basic bike that does the stuff as long as it's sensibly specced (i.e., no full suspension or
> disc brakes at that price). In that area you've got mass production economies of scale and supply
> competition is intense to keep prices low. OTOH, if you want good sports machinery (on or off
> road) you'd probably be better off spending the £350-£500 mentioned above.
>
>> that spending well over a grand for a good upright or 'bent is perfectl
> y
>> reasonable.
>
> Yup!
>
>> Anyway, the thing I'm wondering is what, exactly, do you get for the extra money? I'm not
>> knocking it, just curious as to what is the real difference between a 100 quid ex-catalogue
>> hybrid from the bike shop down the road and the kind of (to me) esoteric hardware that gets
>> mentioned here?
>
> Everything just works better, smoother and more easily for longer. Adjustments tend to be more
> infrequent, and when they need doing they're generally more painless. Things don't break off
> because they're poorly made. The whole riding experience is a more pleasurable one, with your bike
> almost coercing you to get out and use
> it.
>
> Pete.

FWIW I'd warn against the sub-£200 bikes. A friend bought one, but there were too many 'compromises'
to make it a good choice. Heavy frame, clunky gear change, awkward riding position, dreadful saddle.
Result is it's seldom used. I feel at this price the bikes are built down to the price. £300+ is
probably a better mark for a beginner. Unless they can find a 'last-year's model' £300 bike reduced
or get something 2nd hand. Regards, Bill
--
Cyclists are always well-balanced.

 

[Peter Clinch]

bikingbill wrote:

> FWIW I'd warn against the sub-=A3200 bikes. A friend bought one, but th=
ere
> were too many 'compromises' to make it a good choice. Heavy frame, clunky gear change, awkward
> riding position, dreadful saddle. Result is=

> it's seldom used. I feel at this price the bikes are built down to the price. =A3300+ is probably
> a better mark for a beginner. Unless they ca=
n
> find a 'last-year's model' =A3300 bike reduced or get something 2nd han=
d.=20

I'd agree that =A3300 is better, if you happen to have it, and also I'd=20 avoid spending less than
~=A3200. But between the two there's an area=20 where you can get something better in just about
every way than what I=20 paid =A3200 for back in '89, when =A3200 was worth rather more than it is=
=20
now. And that bike did me very well for the best part of a decade, just =

putting on better bits as the originals wore out.

Pete. --=20 Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics,
Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email protected]
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Tony W]

"Peter Clinch" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

>I'd agree that £300 is better, if you happen to have it, and also I'd avoid spending less than
>~£200. But between the two there's an area where you can get something better in just about every
>way than what I paid £200 for back in '89, when £200 was worth rather more than it is now. And that
>bike did me very well for the best part of a decade, just putting on better bits as the originals
>wore out.

It also depends on what type of bike you want. A pretty good hardtail MTB can be had for 250 GBP but
a good, basic (disc free), mid range one will leave little change from about 600 GBP.

For a full sus you can get a worthless clunker for peanuts or spent a grand on a real entry
level machine.

A nice hybrid can be purchased from 200 up and by 300 its going to be pretty good.

A 'road' bike (racer/audax/tourer) probably needs 500 or so to get you started and more than a grand
would be easy to spend.

Yes, a good, basic bike can be had for 200-300 notes -- but if this is the budget then best value
will be had by going for a nice sensible hybrid -- which will do everything OK but nothing
spectacularly.

T

 

[Iarocu]

Pyromancer <[email protected]> wrote in message > Anyway, the thing I'm wondering
is what, exactly, do you get for the
> extra money? I'm not knocking it, just curious as to what is the real difference between a 100
> quid ex-catalogue hybrid from the bike shop down the road and the kind of (to me) esoteric
> hardware that gets mentioned here?
>
>Hi
I,d second the commments that for an entry level hybrid/mtb £300 is the area to start at or £300
bikes reduced. Bargain basement bike components never work very well and need regular adjustment
to keep working. £300 quality components work well and rarely need adjustment. Spend more and
they,ll be even smoother,lighter and last longer.But keep your old bike for nipping to the shops
etc. A £300 bike will be better quality than most of the "bikes" around and hence a target for
the light fingered and its handy having a scrapper you,re happy parking anywhere. This is also
an advantage of a hybrid set up with mudguards and city tyres - very unfashionable appearance.
The neanderthals won,t be interested in it if its non suspension (living near Glasgow I have to
think about this unfortunatly). happy shopping Iain C

 

[Bikingbill]

Peter Clinch <[email protected]> wrote in news:3F3A05AE.2090400 @dundee.ac.uk:

> bikingbill wrote:
>
>> FWIW I'd warn against the sub-£200 bikes. A friend bought one, but th
> ere
>> were too many 'compromises' to make it a good choice. Heavy frame, clunky gear change, awkward
>> riding position, dreadful saddle. Result
is
>
>> it's seldom used. I feel at this price the bikes are built down to
the
>> price. £300+ is probably a better mark for a beginner. Unless they ca
> n
>> find a 'last-year's model' £300 bike reduced or get something 2nd han
> d.
>
> I'd agree that £300 is better, if you happen to have it, and also I'd avoid spending less than
> ~£200. But between the two there's an area where you can get something better in just about every
> way than what I paid £200 for back in '89, when £200 was worth rather more than it is now. And
> that bike did me very well for the best part of a decade,
just
> putting on better bits as the originals wore out.
>
> Pete.

I suppose my point was really that in my friend's case the sub-£200 bike was false economy as she
hasn't been 'inspired' by it and has rarely used it. I agree you can get perfectly good bikes in
that range - but if the rider is inexperienced he/she may not be able to identify the good from the
less good. Maybe I'd advise that if the budget is very tight the inexperienced buyer should take
someone along who knows a bit more about both bikes and their likely use of one. My LBS had a 2nd
hand titanium racer [not my size :-(] for £250 earlier this year - so there is no doubt there are
bargains out there. Bill

--
Cyclists are always well-balanced.

 

[James Hodson]

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:03:47 +0100, Peter Clinch
<[email protected]> wrote:

>It depends what area you're looking at. For someone starting off with a general purpose bike just
>to get about on I'd personally put a good entry level at around £200, for which you can get a sound
>basic bike that does the stuff as long as it's sensibly specced (i.e., no full suspension or disc
>brakes at that price).

I'd say between £300 and £400 for one of a hybrid, cheapo-jimbo road bike, MTB without suspension
(apart from the tyres).

James

--
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