Cheap disk are not better than good V-brakes!

Discussion in 'Mountain Bikes' started by Jerry Everetts, Oct 24, 2003.

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  1. I am going from a disk to a v-brake. I remember somebody asking about this, my bike has XTR V-brakes
    and levers, I bought a Grimeca system 7 mech disk for the front, and it sucked in comparison the the
    XTR v-brake, off it comes. only two weeks old, if anybody wants it for cheep.

    Jerry
     
    Tags:


  2. "Jerry Everetts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I am going from a disk to a v-brake. I remember somebody asking about this, my bike has XTR
    > V-brakes and levers, I bought a Grimeca system 7 mech disk for the front, and it sucked in
    > comparison the the XTR v-brake, off it comes. only two weeks old, if anybody wants it for cheep.
    >
    > Jerry
    >

    Don't you mean system 9 from eBay? I've posted this before, and I'll say it again. They are shit.

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
  3. Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
    > "Jerry Everetts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>I am going from a disk to a v-brake. I remember somebody asking about this, my bike has XTR
    >>V-brakes and levers, I bought a Grimeca system 7 mech disk for the front, and it sucked in
    >>comparison the the XTR v-brake, off it comes. only two weeks old, if anybody wants it for cheep.
    >>
    >>Jerry
    >>
    >
    >
    > Don't you mean system 9 from eBay? I've posted this before, and I'll say it again. They are shit.
    >
    actually it is a system 7, mechanical, with a 160mm rotor.
     
  4. D H

    D H Guest

    "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Jerry Everetts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > I am going from a disk to a v-brake. I remember somebody asking about this, my bike has XTR
    > > V-brakes and levers, I bought a Grimeca system 7 mech disk for the front, and it sucked in
    > > comparison the the XTR v-brake, off it comes. only two weeks old, if anybody wants it for
    cheep.
    > >
    > > Jerry
    > >
    >
    > Don't you mean system 9 from eBay? I've posted this before, and I'll say
    it
    > again. They are shit.

    Yup. He did tell you. And we told you that even the best mechanicals do not equal good
    hydraulics. Can't happen. A cable is a cable is a cable. It stretches some, it drags against a
    housing, it does eventually break. Sure hydraulics have their limitations and downsides too, if
    you fear leaks, etc. I personally don't because they are FAR more rare than cable problems.
    Don't give up on discs just because you tried crap. Buy Hayes or XT or Hope hydros and see what
    you've missed. I will NEVER go back to rim-eating, grabby, useless-in-the-wet brakes again.
    --
    Off to ride the mountains, D H Reply to newsgroup. Spam is out of control.
     
  5. Michael Dart

    Michael Dart Guest

    "D H" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > "Jerry Everetts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > I am going from a disk to a v-brake. I remember somebody asking about this, my bike has XTR
    > > > V-brakes and levers, I bought a Grimeca system 7 mech disk for the front, and it sucked in
    > > > comparison the the XTR v-brake, off it comes. only two weeks old, if anybody wants it for
    > cheep.
    > > >
    > > > Jerry
    > > >
    > >
    > > Don't you mean system 9 from eBay? I've posted this before, and I'll
    say
    > it
    > > again. They are shit.
    >
    > Yup. He did tell you. And we told you that even the best mechanicals
    do
    > not equal good hydraulics. Can't happen. A cable is a cable is a cable. It stretches some, it
    > drags against a housing, it does eventually break. Sure hydraulics have their limitations and
    > downsides too, if you fear leaks,
    etc.
    > I personally don't because they are FAR more rare than cable problems. Don't give up on discs
    > just because you tried crap. Buy Hayes or XT or Hope hydros and see what you've missed. I will
    > NEVER go back to
    rim-eating,
    > grabby, useless-in-the-wet brakes again.
    > --
    > Off to ride the mountains, D H Reply to newsgroup. Spam is out of control.
    >

    Preach it Brother!!!

    Mike - couldn't have said it better myself.
     
  6. Gwood

    Gwood Guest

    Not to belabor this, but I've been seriously considering going to mechanical discs recently. At this
    point I'm forced to rely on hearsay and advertising (yikes) as opposed to personal experience. I
    ride with slightly older XT V brakes right now, and they have their limitations. About to hit the
    Oregon monsoon season, so the limitations will be growing.

    On the flip side, I'm fairly light and ride a fairly light XC setup. I do techie trails without a
    lot of screamin downhill. After some web searching, I had pretty much set my sights on 6" Avid
    ball-bearing style mechanicals. Gotta get me some decent disc wheels first, so I've been stalling in
    my quest....

    With this info, am I really going to see a big benefit from hydro brakes over mechanical? I'm not
    looking for flame wars on people's personal preferences, just wondering if the extra
    cost/weight/maintenance is worth it in my case?

    TIA Gary

    "D H" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > "Jerry Everetts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > I am going from a disk to a v-brake. I remember somebody asking about this, my bike has XTR
    > > > V-brakes and levers, I bought a Grimeca system 7 mech disk for the front, and it sucked in
    > > > comparison the the XTR v-brake, off it comes. only two weeks old, if anybody wants it for
    > cheep.
    > > >
    > > > Jerry
    > > >
    > >
    > > Don't you mean system 9 from eBay? I've posted this before, and I'll
    say
    > it
    > > again. They are shit.
    >
    > Yup. He did tell you. And we told you that even the best mechanicals
    do
    > not equal good hydraulics. Can't happen. A cable is a cable is a cable. It stretches some, it
    > drags against a housing, it does eventually break. Sure hydraulics have their limitations and
    > downsides too, if you fear leaks,
    etc.
    > I personally don't because they are FAR more rare than cable problems. Don't give up on discs
    > just because you tried crap. Buy Hayes or XT or Hope hydros and see what you've missed. I will
    > NEVER go back to
    rim-eating,
    > grabby, useless-in-the-wet brakes again.
    > --
    > Off to ride the mountains, D H Reply to newsgroup. Spam is out of control.
     
  7. Bob M

    Bob M Guest

    On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:13:10 -0800, Gwood <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Not to belabor this, but I've been seriously considering going to mechanical discs recently. At
    > this point I'm forced to rely on hearsay and advertising (yikes) as opposed to personal
    > experience. I ride with slightly older XT V brakes right now, and they have their limitations.
    > About to hit the Oregon monsoon season, so the limitations will be growing.
    >
    > On the flip side, I'm fairly light and ride a fairly light XC setup. I do techie trails without a
    > lot of screamin downhill. After some web searching, I had pretty much set my sights on 6" Avid
    > ball-bearing style mechanicals. Gotta get me some decent disc wheels first, so I've been stalling
    > in my quest....
    >
    > With this info, am I really going to see a big benefit from hydro brakes over mechanical? I'm not
    > looking for flame wars on people's personal preferences, just wondering if the extra
    > cost/weight/maintenance is worth it in my case?
    >
    > TIA Gary
    >

    I think so. I went to mechanical disk on the front only, and there's no more squealing and it stops
    better (particularly in the wet and snow).

    --
    Bob M in CT Remove 'x.' to reply
     
  8. Jonesy

    Jonesy Guest

    "D H" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...

    > > Don't you mean system 9 from eBay? I've posted this before, and I'll say
    > it
    > > again. They are shit.
    >
    > And we told you that even the best mechanicals do not equal good hydraulics. Can't happen.

    While *strictly* true, most folks will enjoy the large V-to-disc benefits far more than the small
    mech-to-hydro benefits. Especially when price is factored in.

    > A cable is a cable is a cable.

    This is actually a plus. Cables are very reliable, known systems. Especially in bicycle
    applications. They don't leak, never get cavitation, are not hydroscopic, and never boil due to heat
    build-up in the caliper.

    > It stretches some

    Myth.

    > it drags against a housing

    Teflon against teflon makes this point moot.

    > it does eventually break

    Not if you replace them every two years (YMMV.) A whole set of brake cables is pretty damn cheap.
    And easy to install. Cheap and easy - Sorni's favorite combo.

    > Sure hydraulics have their limitations and downsides too, if you fear leaks, etc.

    Especially when it leaks right on the pads. Some hydros are a PITA to bleed.

    > I personally don't because they are FAR more rare than cable problems.

    Having run both kinds, I have noticed no reliability differences. Mechs are cheaper to get, easier
    to set up and do the job almost as well as hydros.

    > Don't give up on discs just because you tried crap. Buy Hayes or XT or Hope hydros and see what
    > you've missed. I will NEVER go back to rim-eating, grabby, useless-in-the-wet brakes again.

    Hey, we agree on that, at least. But if someone's on a budget, then Avid mechanicals are nearly as
    good as decent hydro disks - for a fraction of the price. I liked my Hayes hydros, but I'm running
    Avid mechs now. The very small performance hit I took is more than made up for in the other ways
    mentioned.
    --
    Jonesy

    E-mail me: rfjonesy *at* hotmail *dot* com.
     
  9. Bomba

    Bomba Guest

    On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:36:01 -0800, Jonesy wrote:

    >> A cable is a cable is a cable.
    >
    > This is actually a plus. Cables are very reliable, known systems. Especially in bicycle
    > applications. They don't leak, never get cavitation, are not hydroscopic, and never boil due to
    > heat build-up in the caliper.

    Cables snap if you pull too hard.

    >> It stretches some
    >
    > Myth.

    Is this one of those engineer things when you get to be all clever and say that a cable doesn't
    'stretch'? If you're saying that cables don't lengthen a little after use, then I'll dispute that.

    >> it drags against a housing
    >
    > Teflon against teflon makes this point moot.

    Not in my experience. All the teflon cables I've had have performed worse after a good dose of
    Northern European weather.

    >> it does eventually break
    >
    > Not if you replace them every two years (YMMV.) A whole set of brake cables is pretty damn cheap.
    > And easy to install. Cheap and easy - Sorni's favorite combo.

    Good shot!

    --
    a.m-b FAQ: http://www.j-harris.net/bike/ambfaq.htm

    b.bmx FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/bmx_faq.htm
     
  10. > ok, but it took a bit more lever pressure than the XTR V-brake.

    That bothers me too. I like the adjustability of my featherlight v-brakes.

    To my replyer... I am not discounting discs entirely... but there's a bit of a weight penalty, plus
    a new hub. I'm in Florida. No downhills. Ergo, discs not needed ;)

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
  11. Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
    >>ok, but it took a bit more lever pressure than the XTR V-brake.
    >
    >
    > That bothers me too. I like the adjustability of my featherlight v-brakes.
    >
    > To my replyer... I am not discounting discs entirely... but there's a bit of a weight penalty,
    > plus a new hub. I'm in Florida. No downhills. Ergo, discs not needed ;)
    >
    PHil, I am in Florida as well, where are you at?
     
  12. Barn Barn

    Barn Barn Guest

    Opinions please. I have XTR vbrakes and the XTR shift/brake lever combo (one piece). I want to get
    disk brakes for the front but I don't want to loose my XTR shifter? I was thinking about going with
    a cable disk brake .. not ideal I know but at least that way I should be able to keep the XTR combo
    ... what would you do? I figure a really good cable disk should be comparable to a cheap to average
    hydrolic disk?

    Barn Barn

    In article <[email protected]>, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> ok, but it took a bit more lever pressure than the XTR V-brake.
    >
    >That bothers me too. I like the adjustability of my featherlight v-brakes.
    >
    >To my replyer... I am not discounting discs entirely... but there's a bit of a weight penalty, plus
    >a new hub. I'm in Florida. No downhills. Ergo, discs not needed ;)
     
  13. bomba wrote:

    > On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:36:01 -0800, Jonesy wrote:
    >>This is actually a plus. Cables are very reliable, known systems. Especially in bicycle
    >>applications. They don't leak, never get cavitation, are not hydroscopic, and never boil due to
    >>heat build-up in the caliper.
    >
    >
    > Cables snap if you pull too hard.

    I have never heard of such a thing. I believe it can happen, but is seems very unlikely, unless you
    are just standing still and trying to snap them.

    OTOH, I do replace cables and housing every spring, and I do not have the weather you guys to over
    there. But I use my brakes pretty hard (Avid Mechs) for long, sometimes steep downhills.

    --
    Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove ".nospam" to reply)
     
  14. Jonesy

    Jonesy Guest

    bomba <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:36:01 -0800, Jonesy wrote:
    >
    > >> A cable is a cable is a cable.
    > >
    > > This is actually a plus. Cables are very reliable, known systems. Especially in bicycle
    > > applications. They don't leak, never get cavitation, are not hydroscopic, and never boil due to
    > > heat build-up in the caliper.
    >
    > Cables snap if you pull too hard.

    LOL. I'd love to see you do that. I mean, really - would you like to guess the tensile strength of a
    wound cable? Now, to snap it, you have to really exceed that strength. I'm guessing, even with steel
    levers, your hand, even BOTH hands, couldn't do it. Next?

    > >> It stretches some
    > >
    > > Myth.
    >
    > Is this one of those engineer things when you get to be all clever and say that a cable doesn't
    > 'stretch'?

    It doesn't. Not to any measurable degree. I'm sure that a FAQ could be produced to prove it -
    written by an engineer, no less.

    > If you're saying that cables don't lengthen a little after use, then I'll dispute that.

    Dispute it all you like, it still isn't true.

    Here's what happens to a cable/housing/ferrule system:

    As you use the system, the housings will seat into the ferrules. This happens because nobody can
    really get a perfectly even, 90-degree cut on the housing. Cable stays the same length, housing
    shortens a little, due to "bedding in."

    > >> it drags against a housing
    > >
    > > Teflon against teflon makes this point moot.
    >
    > Not in my experience. All the teflon cables I've had have performed worse after a good dose of
    > Northern European weather.

    After having ridden years in a similar climate (Western Washington State,) I have found that
    teflon-on-teflon works great, all the time. I replace the cables every year or so, and the
    housings every two to three. I clean the gunk out if the cable hangs up much. None of the things
    mentioned are serious drawbacks to using cable anything. They are regular things you would have to
    do if you had Vs.

    > >> it does eventually break
    > >
    > > Not if you replace them every two years (YMMV.) A whole set of brake cables is pretty damn
    > > cheap. And easy to install. Cheap and easy - Sorni's favorite combo.
    >
    > Good shot!

    Thanks. I'll try JD next. :)
    --
    Jonesy

    E-mail me: rfjonesy *at* hotmail *dot* com
     
  15. Bomba

    Bomba Guest

    Jonesy wrote:

    >>Cables snap if you pull too hard.
    >
    >
    > LOL. I'd love to see you do that. I mean, really - would you like to guess the tensile strength of
    > a wound cable? Now, to snap it, you have to really exceed that strength. I'm guessing, even with
    > steel levers, your hand, even BOTH hands, couldn't do it. Next?

    I've broken several. More on the bmx, but a couple on the mountain bike. There's no way of proving
    that I didn't cut this, but here's the last Oryg cable I snapped (I kept it for spares):

    http://www.j-harris.net/bike/misc/cable1.jpg http://www.j-harris.net/bike/misc/cable2.jpg

    >>Is this one of those engineer things when you get to be all clever and say that a cable doesn't
    >>'stretch'?
    >
    >
    > It doesn't. Not to any measurable degree. I'm sure that a FAQ could be produced to prove it -
    > written by an engineer, no less.
    >
    >
    >> If you're saying that cables don't lengthen a little after use, then I'll dispute that.
    >
    >
    > Dispute it all you like, it still isn't true.
    >
    > Here's what happens to a cable/housing/ferrule system:
    >
    > As you use the system, the housings will seat into the ferrules. This happens because nobody can
    > really get a perfectly even, 90-degree cut on the housing. Cable stays the same length, housing
    > shortens a little, due to "bedding in."

    Interesting, but why do you have to adjust your gears after a couple of weeks when you put in a new
    cable (using older housing)?

    Cables do stretch as the outer wires close around the core under tension. This is known as
    'constructional stretch' (spot who's been on Google :)

    >>>Teflon against teflon makes this point moot.
    >>
    >>Not in my experience. All the teflon cables I've had have performed worse after a good dose of
    >>Northern European weather.
    >
    >
    > After having ridden years in a similar climate (Western Washington State,) I have found that
    > teflon-on-teflon works great, all the time. I replace the cables every year or so, and the
    > housings every two to three. I clean the gunk out if the cable hangs up much. None of the things
    > mentioned are serious drawbacks to using cable anything. They are regular things you would have to
    > do if you had Vs.

    Mine have always fouled up on the first or second wet ride. Maybe I've just been unlucky.

    >>>>it does eventually break
    >>>
    >>>Not if you replace them every two years (YMMV.) A whole set of brake cables is pretty damn cheap.
    >>>And easy to install. Cheap and easy - Sorni's favorite combo.
    >>
    >>Good shot!
    >
    >
    > Thanks. I'll try JD next. :)

    :)
     
  16. "Jerry Everetts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
    > >>ok, but it took a bit more lever pressure than the XTR V-brake.
    > >
    > >
    > > That bothers me too. I like the adjustability of my featherlight
    v-brakes.
    > >
    > > To my replyer... I am not discounting discs entirely... but there's a
    bit of
    > > a weight penalty, plus a new hub. I'm in Florida. No downhills. Ergo, discs not needed ;)
    > >
    > PHil, I am in Florida as well, where are you at?

    Gainesville @ UF. I see you're nearby Orlando, no?

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
  17. Dave

    Dave Guest

    As an engineer who has also worked several years in a bike shop, I just can't stop myself...

    bomba <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > Cables snap if you pull too hard.

    I just dissected a brake cable and looked up its properties. (1X19 SS wire, 1/16" dia.) Several
    sources listed a minimum breaking strength of 500 pounds. Quick measurements show my Avid levers
    have about a
    1.7X leverage. Let's call it 2X. Let's even assume that the clamp bolt cuts the strength of the wire
    in half. That still means you would have to apply over 125 pounds with your 2 fingers to break
    that wire. Scary handshake! More likely a cable that breaks in service has been compromised by
    abrasion or corrosion.

    > >> It stretches some
    > >
    > > Myth.
    >
    > Is this one of those engineer things when you get to be all clever and say that a cable doesn't
    > 'stretch'? If you're saying that cables don't lengthen a little after use, then I'll dispute that.

    No, the cables don't stretch, the housings and ferrules seat in. It feels like stretch, you adjust
    it like stretch, but technically it's shrinkage. If you could generate enough force to stretch the
    cable once, it would stretch again every time you applied that much force, and you'd be adjusting
    every ride!

    All that aside, I'd gladly invest in discs if I my frame was compatable.

    Dave
     
  18. Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
    > "Jerry Everetts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
    >>
    >>>>ok, but it took a bit more lever pressure than the XTR V-brake.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>That bothers me too. I like the adjustability of my featherlight
    >
    > v-brakes.
    >
    >>>To my replyer... I am not discounting discs entirely... but there's a
    >
    > bit of
    >
    >>>a weight penalty, plus a new hub. I'm in Florida. No downhills. Ergo, discs not needed ;)
    >>>
    >>
    >>PHil, I am in Florida as well, where are you at?
    >
    >
    >
    > Gainesville @ UF. I see you're nearby Orlando, no?
    >
    Daytona area... ever get down this way?
     
  19. Bob M

    Bob M Guest

    On 29 Oct 2003 16:12:06 -0800, Dave <[email protected]> wrote:

    [cut]
    > All that aside, I'd gladly invest in discs if I my frame was compatable.
    >
    > Dave
    >

    You might consider front-only cable-operated disks. I did this because my V-brakes were squealing
    and I ride in the wet/snow/ice, and V-brakes don't like to stop in the wet. I switch to riding my
    mountain bike on the road once the snow falls. I don't ride that often (two days a week or so). This
    winter, I'm going to head out to some simple trails once they're nice and frozen.

    --
    Bob M in CT Remove 'x.' to reply
     
  20. Jonesy

    Jonesy Guest

    bomba <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Jonesy wrote:
    >
    > >>Cables snap if you pull too hard.
    > >
    > >
    > > LOL. I'd love to see you do that. I mean, really - would you like to guess the tensile strength
    > > of a wound cable? Now, to snap it, you have to really exceed that strength. I'm guessing, even
    > > with steel levers, your hand, even BOTH hands, couldn't do it. Next?
    >
    > I've broken several.

    None that were brand new, I'll wager.

    > More on the bmx, but a couple on the mountain bike. There's no way of proving that I didn't cut
    > this, but here's the last Oryg cable I snapped (I kept it for spares):

    I'm not familiar with the brand, but I will assume that it's quality is on par with RideOn or such
    like. I am going to guess that some sort of damage began the failure, and that you just finished it
    off. When I seat ferrules and housings, I use four fingers and really pull the cable hard. I do
    that ten times, adjust, and the thing stays the same for the rest of the season(s). No adjusting. I
    never need more than one finger to lock up my Avids. I think there's more going on here than mere
    cable breakage.

    > >>Is this one of those engineer things when you get to be all clever and say that a cable doesn't
    > >>'stretch'?
    > >
    > > It doesn't. Not to any measurable degree. I'm sure that a FAQ could be produced to prove it -
    > > written by an engineer, no less.
    > >
    > >> If you're saying that cables don't lengthen a little after use, then I'll dispute that.
    > >
    > > Dispute it all you like, it still isn't true.
    > >
    > > Here's what happens to a cable/housing/ferrule system:
    > >
    > > As you use the system, the housings will seat into the ferrules. This happens because nobody can
    > > really get a perfectly even, 90-degree cut on the housing. Cable stays the same length, housing
    > > shortens a little, due to "bedding in."
    >
    > Interesting, but why do you have to adjust your gears after a couple of weeks when you put in a
    > new cable (using older housing)?

    Nope. Once I install the stuff, seat the housings and ferrules, the thing stays right until I have
    to change the housings and ferrules again.

    > Cables do stretch as the outer wires close around the core under tension. This is known as
    > 'constructional stretch' (spot who's been on Google :)

    Heh. Die-drawn bicycle cables are already "pre-stretched" then. We are still talking about bicycle
    cables, right?

    > >>>Teflon against teflon makes this point moot.
    > >>
    > >>Not in my experience. All the teflon cables I've had have performed worse after a good dose of
    > >>Northern European weather.
    > >
    > > After having ridden years in a similar climate (Western Washington State,) I have found that
    > > teflon-on-teflon works great, all the time. I replace the cables every year or so, and the
    > > housings every two to three. I clean the gunk out if the cable hangs up much. None of the things
    > > mentioned are serious drawbacks to using cable anything. They are regular things you would have
    > > to do if you had Vs.
    >
    > Mine have always fouled up on the first or second wet ride. Maybe I've just been unlucky.

    I would say so! I've used RideOn, Shimano SIS and Jagwire, all Teflon/Teflon, and never had any
    problem, either with the brake or derailleur cable (that was not of my own ham-handedness.) Every so
    often (no regular interval - just when I get around to it,) I shoot out the housing with WD40, then
    compressed air. I then run a little Krytox spray into the housing and let it dry (Teflon based lube)
    Put the cable in, snug everything up - viola! ;) Run it some more until I get around to lubing (or
    replacing the cable) again. I really don't put that much effort into the whole deal.

    My cables have never broken, and they don't hang up unless I snag them on something and they get a
    kink. That's happened a couple of times. I understand that if you do that to hydro brakes, they can
    leak and leave you without brakes without your knowledge. A definite downside.

    In addition, hydro hose needs a special tool to cut, right? And some you can't cut, but need to
    leave as-is. I've never had to do it, so I don't know. My Kona came with Hayes already on it.
    --
    Jonesy

    E-mail me: rfjonesy *at* hotmail *dot* com

    > >>>>it does eventually break
    > >>>
    > >>>Not if you replace them every two years (YMMV.) A whole set of brake cables is pretty damn
    > >>>cheap. And easy to install. Cheap and easy - Sorni's favorite combo.
    > >>
    > >>Good shot!
    > >
    > >
    > > Thanks. I'll try JD next. :)
    >
    > :)
     
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