chicken stock and whole wheat experimentation

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Julia Altshuler, Dec 17, 2003.

  1. A few weeks ago I had a chest cold and posted asking why the chicken soup we'd made from scratch
    didn't taste as good as I remember it should. Y'all gave me good possibilities. I now have a
    definitive answer: because it isn't duck stock. We made duck stock the other day (from the
    Thanksgiving Day duck carcass), and it tastes wonderful.

    Tonight I did some baking. I made the cranberry-orange bread recipe in Silver Palate which I've made
    before and liked. Ever interested in hiding a little extra healthy stuff in food, I substituted half
    whole wheat flour for the 2 cups of white flour the recipe calls for. I figured it would give the
    bread a nice texture, a grainier flavor and make it a little less sweet. Uh-huh. It came out edible
    but not very good. Next time I'm going back to tried and true.

    --Lia
     
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  2. Hahabogus

    Hahabogus Guest

    Julia Altshuler <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]_s03:

    > A few weeks ago I had a chest cold and posted asking why the chicken soup we'd made from scratch
    > didn't taste as good as I remember it should. Y'all gave me good possibilities. I now have a
    > definitive answer: because it isn't duck stock. We made duck stock the other day (from the
    > Thanksgiving Day duck carcass), and it tastes wonderful.
    >
    > Tonight I did some baking. I made the cranberry-orange bread recipe in Silver Palate which I've
    > made before and liked. Ever interested in hiding a little extra healthy stuff in food, I
    > substituted half whole wheat flour for the 2 cups of white flour the recipe calls for. I figured
    > it would give the bread a nice texture, a grainier flavor and make it a little less sweet. Uh-huh.
    > It came out edible but not very good. Next time I'm going back to tried and true.
    >
    > --Lia
    >
    >

    Was it the lack of gluten? There are wheat gluten additives for sale in most stupid markets. 2 tbsps
    of wheat gluten (from the box) might have been what you needed.

    --
    And the beet goes on! (or under) -me just a while ago
     
  3. "Julia Altshuler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]_s03...
    > A few weeks ago I had a chest cold and posted asking why the chicken soup we'd made from scratch
    > didn't taste as good as I remember it should. Y'all gave me good possibilities. I now have a
    > definitive answer: because it isn't duck stock. We made duck stock the other day (from the
    > Thanksgiving Day duck carcass), and it tastes wonderful.
    >
    > Tonight I did some baking. I made the cranberry-orange bread recipe in Silver Palate which I've
    > made before and liked. Ever interested in hiding a little extra healthy stuff in food, I
    > substituted half whole wheat flour for the 2 cups of white flour the recipe calls for. I figured
    > it would give the bread a nice texture, a grainier flavor and make it a little less sweet. Uh-huh.
    > It came out edible but not very good. Next time I'm going back to tried and true.
    >
    > --Lia

    Was the whole wheat flour "bread" flour or was it "pastry" flour. It makes a difference. The pastry
    flour is made from a softer wheat and will not support a rise. Janet
     
  4. hahabogus wrote:

    > Was it the lack of gluten? There are wheat gluten additives for sale in most stupid markets. 2
    > tbsps of wheat gluten (from the box) might have been what you needed.

    No, this was a quick bread and the texture was fine so I don't think gluten was the problem. The
    problem was my inability to foresee how the flavors would (or wouldn't) go together. The bread is
    edible. I only made one loaf, and I'm sure we'll finish it. The whole wheat flour lessened the
    sweetness which was necessary to offset the tart cranberries, and it was overpowering so you didn't
    get the nice orange taste of the peel and juice. Basically the whole wheat flour took a delicately
    flavored bread/cake and turned it into generic whole wheat muffin type bread.

    --Lia
     
  5. Janet Bostwick wrote:

    > Was the whole wheat flour "bread" flour or was it "pastry" flour. It makes a difference. The
    > pastry flour is made from a softer wheat and will not support a rise. Janet

    It was King Arthur brand "traditional whole wheat flour, stone gound from hard red wheat." I'm
    looking at the package for more information on whether it is bread or pastry flour but don't see
    any. Am I right that hard wheat yields bread flour? Either way, the problem wasn't so much with the
    rise as with the flavor. The bread is perfectly edible; it just isn't delicately flavored.

    --Lia
     
  6. "Julia Altshuler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]_s53...
    > Janet Bostwick wrote:
    >
    > > Was the whole wheat flour "bread" flour or was it "pastry" flour. It
    makes
    > > a difference. The pastry flour is made from a softer wheat and will not support a rise. Janet
    >
    >
    > It was King Arthur brand "traditional whole wheat flour, stone gound from hard red wheat." I'm
    > looking at the package for more information on whether it is bread or pastry flour but don't see
    > any. Am I right that hard wheat yields bread flour? Either way, the problem wasn't so much with
    > the rise as with the flavor. The bread is perfectly edible; it just isn't delicately flavored.
    >
    > --Lia
    I believe that the KA pastry whole wheat is clearly labeled as such on the front of the package.
    You're right, hard wheat yields either all purpose or bread flour. Personally, I find whole wheat
    can produce a harsh flavor to bread. If you want to experiment with this further, you might try the
    KA "white" whole wheat flour. It is a lighter colored grain and more mild flavored. I assume that
    you are making a quick bread rather than a yeast bread. Try changing the sugar portion to something
    different like honey or molasses. They might compliment the whole wheat better. Janet
     
  7. Mike Pearce

    Mike Pearce Guest

    "Janet Bostwick" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >

    > I believe that the KA pastry whole wheat is clearly labeled as such on the front of the package.
    > You're right, hard wheat yields either all purpose
    or
    > bread flour. Personally, I find whole wheat can produce a harsh flavor to bread. If you want to
    > experiment with this further, you might try the KA "white" whole wheat flour. It is a lighter
    > colored grain and more mild flavored.

    Janet:

    When I make bread I usually use an 80/20 mix of white bread flour and whole wheat. A while back I
    mistakenly bought a bag of KA white whole wheat flour and figured I'd just use is in place of the
    whole wheat. It made a huge difference. Not a good one for my taste, but very noticeable. So yeah, I
    agree with you completely that it has a much milder flavor and it also seems produce a smother
    texture than their regular whole wheat. I think it would be worth a try for anyone who wants to head
    in the whole wheat direction but finds whole wheat too strongly flavored.

    -Mike
     
  8. Janet Bostwick wrote:

    > I believe that the KA pastry whole wheat is clearly labeled as such on the front of the package.
    > You're right, hard wheat yields either all purpose or bread flour. Personally, I find whole wheat
    > can produce a harsh flavor to bread. If you want to experiment with this further, you might try
    > the KA "white" whole wheat flour. It is a lighter colored grain and more mild flavored. I assume
    > that you are making a quick bread rather than a yeast bread. Try changing the sugar portion to
    > something different like honey or molasses. They might compliment the whole wheat better.

    I'll keep an eye out for the King Arthur "white" whole wheat flour you mention. I don't bake nearly
    enough, and when I do, I can't help experimenting. Even when it is a recipe I like, I feel compelled
    to change it somehow. That's what happened this time. I couldn't leave well enough alone. I'm
    intrigued by the this whole wheat flour you mention. What's "white" about it? Have they used the
    germ but not the bran? Milled it finer? Used a different wheat? If it is just a package of flour
    with mixed white and whole wheat, I could achieve the same thing at home by using only 10% whole
    wheat instead of half.

    (I've just looked at the King Arthur website
    http://ww2.kingarthurflour.com/cgibin/htmlos.cgi/02217.5.1034559375984270887 and see the answers to
    my questions. This might be what I'm looking for. Thanks.)

    --Lia
     
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