Children 'harmed' by vegan diets

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by none90810, Feb 21, 2005.

  1. none90810

    none90810 Guest

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4282257.stm

    Putting children on strict vegan diets is "unethical" and could harm
    their development, a US scientist has argued.

    Lindsay Allen, of the US Agricultural Research Service, attacked
    parents who insisted their children lived by the maxim "meat is
    murder".

    Animal source foods have some nutrients not found anywhere else, she
    told a Washington science conference.

    The Vegan Society dismissed the claims, saying its research showed
    vegans were often healthier than meat eaters.

    'Development affected'

    Professor Allen said: "There have been sufficient studies clearly
    showing that when women avoid all animal foods, their babies are born
    small, they grow very slowly and they are developmentally retarded,
    possibly permanently."


    There's absolutely no question that it's unethical for parents to bring
    up their children as strict vegans
    Professor Lindsay Allen, US Agricultural Research Service

    "If you're talking about feeding young children, pregnant women and
    lactating women, I would go as far as to say it is unethical to
    withhold these foods [animal source foods] during that period of life."

    She was especially critical of parents who imposed a vegan lifestyle on
    their children, denying them milk, cheese, butter and meat.

    "There's absolutely no question that it's unethical for parents to
    bring up their children as strict vegans," she told the annual meeting
    of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS).

    Missing nutrients

    She said the damage to a child began while it was growing in the womb
    and continued once it had been born.

    Research she carried out among African schoolchildren suggests as
    little as two spoonfuls of meat each day is enough to provide nutrients
    such as vitamin B12, zinc and iron.

    The 544 children studied had been raised on diets chiefly consisting of
    starchy, low-nutrition corn and bean staples lacking these
    micronutrients.

    Over two years, some of the children were given 2oz supplements of meat
    each day, equivalent to about two spoonfuls of mince.

    Two other groups received either a cup of milk a day or an oil
    supplement containing the same amount of energy. The diet of a fourth
    group was left unaltered.


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    The changes seen in the children given the meat, and to a lesser extent
    the milk or oil, were dramatic.

    These children grew more and performed better on problem-solving and
    intelligence tests than any of the other children at the end of the two
    years.

    They also became more active, talkative and playful at school.

    Adding either meat or milk to the diets also almost completely
    eliminated the very high rates of vitamin B12 deficiency previously
    seen in the children.

    No quick fixes

    Professor Allen stressed that although the study was conducted in a
    poor African community, its message was highly relevant to people in
    developed countries.

    She accepted that adults could avoid animal foods if they took the
    right supplements, but she said adding animal source food into the diet
    was a better way to tackle malnutrition worldwide than quick fixes with
    supplements in the form of pills.

    "Where feasible, it would be much better to do it through the diet than
    by giving pills," she said.

    "With pills it's very hard to be certain that the quantity of nutrition
    is right for everybody and it's hard to sustain."

    In Africa, good results had been obtained from giving people a dried
    meat on a stick snack which proved both nutritious and appealing.

    Professor Montague Demment, from the University of California at Davis,
    said more emphasis should be placed on animal source food to combat
    global malnutrition.

    Vegan defence

    However, the claims have been dismissed by the Vegan Society in the UK.

    In a statement, it said increasing numbers of people were opting for a
    plant-based diet.

    Kostana Azmi, the chief executive officer, said: "The vegan diet can
    provide you with more energy, nutrition, and is bursting with
    goodness."

    She said plant sources were sometimes a safer, and cheaper source of
    nutrients.

    For instance, animal sources of omega-3 oils, needed for the
    development of the brain and nervous system, were often contaminated
    with pollutants, such as mercury in fish.

    In addition, the vegan diet was often a healthier alternative. She said
    dairy and meat products were rich in saturated fat, while plant based
    diets were low in it.

    The society does recommend that vegans supplement their diet with
    vitamin B-12 pills.

    The US Agricultural Research Service is part of the US Department of
    Agriculture.
     
    Tags:


  2. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    Ignoramus15794 <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Would be more interesting to know if children are harmed by low carb
    > diets. My child is not low carbing, so this question is of theoretical
    > nature.


    I think it depends on how you define low. 20g of carbs a day would likely
    stunt development. OTOH, 500 g of carbs a day will likely produce a fat
    child. 250g a day might be just right, depending on the kid.
     
  3. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    Ignoramus15794 <[email protected]> wrote:
    > On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 18:18:31 -0500, Roger Zoul
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Ignoramus15794 <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> Would be more interesting to know if children are harmed by low carb
    >>> diets. My child is not low carbing, so this question is of
    >>> theoretical nature.

    >>
    >> I think it depends on how you define low. 20g of carbs a day would
    >> likely stunt development. OTOH, 500 g of carbs a day will likely
    >> produce a fat child. 250g a day might be just right, depending on
    >> the kid.

    >
    > I do not think that it is proper to refer to grams regardless of the
    > weight of the child, but I agree that there is some best amount,
    > depending on the child.


    Not many kids will need 500 g of carbs per day. It's not rocket science.
     
  4. "none90810" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > Kostana Azmi, the chief executive officer, said: "The vegan diet can
    > provide you with more energy, nutrition, and is bursting with
    > goodness."
    >
    > The society does recommend that vegans supplement their diet with
    > vitamin B-12 pills.
    >

    It made me laugh to read the two above sentences. Apparently there isn't
    enough "goodness" to avoid supplementing during pregnancy. Although, to say
    that developed countries can benefit, it doesn't seem that it'd be such an
    issue since anyone that visits a doctor will likely be given prenatal pills.

    Interesting research though,
    Mark
     
  5. On 21 Feb 2005 22:54:43 GMT, Ignoramus15794
    <[email protected]id> wrote:

    >
    >Would be more interesting to know if children are harmed by low carb
    >diets. My child is not low carbing, so this question is of theoretical
    >nature.


    I began LCing when my daughters were 2 and 3 years old. While I did
    not and have not pushed them towards a Low-Carb diet they decided on
    their own that they preferred meats, fruits and vegetables to make up
    the bulk of their diets (diet in the sense of 'what they eat' not
    'deliberately restrictive eating plan') and self-limit grains and
    sugars. Recently they came home from a birthday party complaining
    that there hadn't been enough Good Things To Eat and they hadn't want
    to fill up on honey-popcorn and candy so could they have a nice plate
    of broccoli please? You can bet I quickly steamed them up some!

    On a typical day they would probably take in under 100g of carb - they
    are 10 and (almost) 9 years old now. The elder girl is at the 80th
    percentile for both height and weight (with very little extraneous fat
    - she's just a very active girl with plenty of muscle) while the
    younger is at the 75th percentile for height and the 50th for weight.
    They are involved with swimming and karate on a regular basis, and
    love to spend their own time in training for these sports as well as
    their regular training sessions. They are both extremely bright with
    reading and mathematics ages (as tested by the school) a good 4 years
    ahead of their chronological ages.

    For my kids, keeping them on a lower-carb plan seems not to have given
    them any problems so far.

    Aramanth
     
  6. revek

    revek Guest

    Roger Zoul wrote:
    > Ignoramus15794 <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Would be more interesting to know if children are harmed by low carb
    > > diets. My child is not low carbing, so this question is of
    > > theoretical nature.

    >
    > I think it depends on how you define low. 20g of carbs a day would
    > likely stunt development. OTOH, 500 g of carbs a day will likely
    > produce a fat child. 250g a day might be just right, depending on the
    > kid.


    LittleBigMan (aka the grandkid) gets a maintenence type lowcarb diet, most
    days, somewhere between 100 and 150g, (but when he's with either set of
    grandparents it tends to go up another 50 grams or so-mostly junk food of
    course, I am a grandparent after all).

    He adores jerky, and cheese smothered anything, peanut butter, and bananas
    (his one really high carb fruit). He's not all that fond of wheat products
    (including sugar drenched cereals), and although corn chips are ok once in a
    while he likes plain popcorn much better. He actually likes spinach and
    broccoli and prefers them to peas and corn.

    His "bad food" passions are Diet Rite Tangerine soda and duck sauce
    drenched rice.

    Of course he loves chocolate, but he prefers the dark. His momma lowcarbed
    during pregnancy and lactation.

    He is in the 75th percentile for his age group (height, weight and
    mental/social development), according to WIC, and 'textbook perfect'
    according to his pediatrician, who seems moderately impressed with how
    healthy and bright he is, which makes me wonder what she normally deals
    with.

    --
    revek
    This sentence no verb. This sentence short. This signature done.
     
  7. "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Ignoramus15794 <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Would be more interesting to know if children are harmed by low carb
    >> diets. My child is not low carbing, so this question is of theoretical
    >> nature.

    >
    > I think it depends on how you define low. 20g of carbs a day would likely
    > stunt development. OTOH, 500 g of carbs a day will likely produce a fat
    > child. 250g a day might be just right, depending on the kid.
    >
    >


    Some children with violent seizures have been put on a low carb (no carb)
    diet with great results. There has been plenty of research done in this
    area. There is no such thing as an essential carb. HTH
     
  8. No problem Ig.

    I feel (in the interests of honesty) that the odds are my kids would
    have been tall and smart even if they didn't LC. My 6'8" husband
    meant they got a lot of genes for 'tall' and we are both fairly
    intelligent. In fact, he's got a PhD in Tachyon Physics and currently
    works as a research scientist. So, they get a lot of encouragement at
    home to make the most of their brains which goes a long way towards
    their precocious reading and mathematical ability.

    Aramanth


    On 22 Feb 2005 01:16:13 GMT, Ignoramus15794
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Thanks, Aramanth and revek.
    >
    >i
    >
    >On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 11:28:45 +1030, Aramanth Dawe <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> On 21 Feb 2005 22:54:43 GMT, Ignoramus15794
    >><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>>Would be more interesting to know if children are harmed by low carb
    >>>diets. My child is not low carbing, so this question is of theoretical
    >>>nature.

    >>
    >> I began LCing when my daughters were 2 and 3 years old. While I did
    >> not and have not pushed them towards a Low-Carb diet they decided on
    >> their own that they preferred meats, fruits and vegetables to make up
    >> the bulk of their diets (diet in the sense of 'what they eat' not
    >> 'deliberately restrictive eating plan') and self-limit grains and
    >> sugars. Recently they came home from a birthday party complaining
    >> that there hadn't been enough Good Things To Eat and they hadn't want
    >> to fill up on honey-popcorn and candy so could they have a nice plate
    >> of broccoli please? You can bet I quickly steamed them up some!
    >>
    >> On a typical day they would probably take in under 100g of carb - they
    >> are 10 and (almost) 9 years old now. The elder girl is at the 80th
    >> percentile for both height and weight (with very little extraneous fat
    >> - she's just a very active girl with plenty of muscle) while the
    >> younger is at the 75th percentile for height and the 50th for weight.
    >> They are involved with swimming and karate on a regular basis, and
    >> love to spend their own time in training for these sports as well as
    >> their regular training sessions. They are both extremely bright with
    >> reading and mathematics ages (as tested by the school) a good 4 years
    >> ahead of their chronological ages.
    >>
    >> For my kids, keeping them on a lower-carb plan seems not to have given
    >> them any problems so far.
    >>
    >> Aramanth
     
  9. revek

    revek Guest

    Aramanth Dawe wrote:
    > No problem Ig.
    >
    > I feel (in the interests of honesty) that the odds are my kids would
    > have been tall and smart even if they didn't LC. My 6'8" husband
    > meant they got a lot of genes for 'tall' and we are both fairly
    > intelligent. In fact, he's got a PhD in Tachyon Physics and currently
    > works as a research scientist. So, they get a lot of encouragement at
    > home to make the most of their brains which goes a long way towards
    > their precocious reading and mathematical ability.
    >
    > Aramanth


    As another data point, my kidling comes from just the opposite background.
    2 families of short folks, who have a wide IQ spread. I'm not naming names
    (to protect the guilty) but some of the stupids pulled could have damaged
    genetic matierial (or be evidence of same).

    --
    revek
    You are in a maze of twisty little messages, all alike.
     
  10. None Given

    None Given Guest

    "revek" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > He is in the 75th percentile for his age group (height, weight and
    > mental/social development), according to WIC, and 'textbook perfect'
    > according to his pediatrician, who seems moderately impressed with how
    > healthy and bright he is, which makes me wonder what she normally deals
    > with.



    Probably kids who drink a lot of soft drinks and juice and eat chips and
    sugary cereals.

    --
    No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes
     
  11. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    Ignoramus15841 wrote:
    :: On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 03:23:02 GMT, JC Der Koenig
    :: <[email protected]> wrote:
    :::
    ::: "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    ::: news:[email protected]
    :::: Ignoramus15794 <[email protected]> wrote:
    ::::: Would be more interesting to know if children are harmed by low
    ::::: carb diets. My child is not low carbing, so this question is of
    ::::: theoretical nature.
    ::::
    :::: I think it depends on how you define low. 20g of carbs a day
    :::: would likely stunt development. OTOH, 500 g of carbs a day will
    :::: likely produce a fat child. 250g a day might be just right,
    :::: depending on the kid.
    ::::
    ::::
    :::
    ::: Some children with violent seizures have been put on a low carb (no
    ::: carb) diet with great results. There has been plenty of research
    ::: done in this area. There is no such thing as an essential carb.
    ::: HTH
    :::
    :::
    ::
    :: Thanks. Good point on epileptics.

    The treatment of children on ketogenic diets (more strict any your typical
    Atkins type diet) is a lessor of two evils and was done under close medical
    care. And the plenty of research had to do with the treatment of really
    sick kids, and had nothing to do with putting everyday kids on LC diets.
    Finally, the comment on there is no such thing as an essential carb just
    reflects current understanding in medical science. It does not mean that
    carbs have no role in the development of young kids.

    Still, being mindful of excessive carb intake is likely a good thing for any
    kid.
     
  12. Renegade5

    Renegade5 Guest

    >> Would be more interesting to know if children are harmed by low carb
    >> diets. My child is not low carbing, so this question is of theoretical
    >> nature.


    There have been some studies done on school age children that show
    carbs can increase their attention, memory, reasoning and other mental
    skills. Unfortunately, I don't recall the 'volume' of carbs used in
    the study.
     
  13. So basically you don't know what you're talking about.

    --
    You take stupid to a new level. -- MFW


    "Renegade5" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >>> Would be more interesting to know if children are harmed by low carb
    >>> diets. My child is not low carbing, so this question is of theoretical
    >>> nature.

    >
    > There have been some studies done on school age children that show
    > carbs can increase their attention, memory, reasoning and other mental
    > skills. Unfortunately, I don't recall the 'volume' of carbs used in
    > the study.
    >
    >
     
  14. tia

    tia Guest

    "Renegade5" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >>> Would be more interesting to know if children are harmed by low carb
    >>> diets. My child is not low carbing, so this question is of theoretical
    >>> nature.

    >
    > There have been some studies done on school age children that show
    > carbs can increase their attention, memory, reasoning and other mental
    > skills. Unfortunately, I don't recall the 'volume' of carbs used in
    > the study.
    >



    yea lets feed our school kids sugar and see how well they can pay
    attention....


    --
    _____________________________
    This be Tia's SIG!!! YAY!
     
  15. Renegade5

    Renegade5 Guest

    JC - I though you had been around here long enough to know that 'low'
    is a relative term...

    The carbs in the study came from breakfast cereal. Although I don't
    know which type (and therefore the total amount of carbs) by most
    definitions this would not be considered 'low carb'.

    The implication from this study (and some others) is that carbs
    appears to benefit a childs mental acuity... can we then infer that
    'low carb diets' are 'harmful' in the way that these high carbs are
    'helpful'? I'll leave you to make your own inferences, and connect
    the dots in any way you see fit.

    Per Dr. Sears:
    "Whether or not children eat breakfast affects their learning, but so
    does what they eat. Children who eat a breakfast containing both
    complex carbohydrates and proteins in equivalent amounts of calories
    tend to show better learning and performance than children who eat
    primarily a high protein or a high carbohydrate breakfast. Breakfasts
    high in carbohydrates with little protein seem to sedate children
    rather than stimulate their brain to learn."


    There's also some concerns about 'food and mood' including ADD,
    depression, etc. MIT has done some good research here (I'll leave you
    to search pub med, etc. if you want to read them).


    On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 14:58:26 GMT, "JC Der Koenig"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >So basically you don't know what you're talking about.
    >
    >--
    >You take stupid to a new level. -- MFW
    >
    >
    >"Renegade5" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]
    >>>> Would be more interesting to know if children are harmed by low carb
    >>>> diets. My child is not low carbing, so this question is of theoretical
    >>>> nature.

    >>
    >> There have been some studies done on school age children that show
    >> carbs can increase their attention, memory, reasoning and other mental
    >> skills. Unfortunately, I don't recall the 'volume' of carbs used in
    >> the study.
     
  16. Dr. Barry Sears?

    He wouldn't be trying to sell you anything, would he?

    --
    Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW


    "Renegade5" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > JC - I though you had been around here long enough to know that 'low'
    > is a relative term...
    >
    > The carbs in the study came from breakfast cereal. Although I don't
    > know which type (and therefore the total amount of carbs) by most
    > definitions this would not be considered 'low carb'.
    >
    > The implication from this study (and some others) is that carbs
    > appears to benefit a childs mental acuity... can we then infer that
    > 'low carb diets' are 'harmful' in the way that these high carbs are
    > 'helpful'? I'll leave you to make your own inferences, and connect
    > the dots in any way you see fit.
    >
    > Per Dr. Sears:
    > "Whether or not children eat breakfast affects their learning, but so
    > does what they eat. Children who eat a breakfast containing both
    > complex carbohydrates and proteins in equivalent amounts of calories
    > tend to show better learning and performance than children who eat
    > primarily a high protein or a high carbohydrate breakfast. Breakfasts
    > high in carbohydrates with little protein seem to sedate children
    > rather than stimulate their brain to learn."
    >
    >
    > There's also some concerns about 'food and mood' including ADD,
    > depression, etc. MIT has done some good research here (I'll leave you
    > to search pub med, etc. if you want to read them).
    >
    >
    > On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 14:58:26 GMT, "JC Der Koenig"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>So basically you don't know what you're talking about.
    >>
    >>--
    >>You take stupid to a new level. -- MFW
    >>
    >>
    >>"Renegade5" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>news:[email protected]
    >>>>> Would be more interesting to know if children are harmed by low carb
    >>>>> diets. My child is not low carbing, so this question is of theoretical
    >>>>> nature.
    >>>
    >>> There have been some studies done on school age children that show
    >>> carbs can increase their attention, memory, reasoning and other mental
    >>> skills. Unfortunately, I don't recall the 'volume' of carbs used in
    >>> the study.

    >
     
  17. Renegade5

    Renegade5 Guest

    On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 02:33:50 GMT, "JC Der Koenig"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Dr. Barry Sears?
    >
    >He wouldn't be trying to sell you anything, would he?


    You're right... better to go with the recommendations of The Atkins
    Corperation... er... I mean Foundation <tm> :)
     
  18. Xtile

    Xtile Guest

    Renegade5 wrote:
    > On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 02:33:50 GMT, "JC Der Koenig"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Dr. Barry Sears?
    >>
    >>He wouldn't be trying to sell you anything, would he?

    >
    >
    > You're right... better to go with the recommendations of The Atkins
    > Corperation... er... I mean Foundation <tm> :)
    >


    Of course with Atkins, you need not buy a single thing from his company
    to do atkins. Between the website and newsgroup you can do LC no
    problemo, unlike most other diets.
     
  19. Luna

    Luna Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Xtile <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Renegade5 wrote:
    > > On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 02:33:50 GMT, "JC Der Koenig"
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >>Dr. Barry Sears?
    > >>
    > >>He wouldn't be trying to sell you anything, would he?

    > >
    > >
    > > You're right... better to go with the recommendations of The Atkins
    > > Corperation... er... I mean Foundation <tm> :)
    > >

    >
    > Of course with Atkins, you need not buy a single thing from his company
    > to do atkins. Between the website and newsgroup you can do LC no
    > problemo, unlike most other diets.


    That's bull. You can do most diets for free. Even if you need to read
    a book to do it, there are libraries. And any diet which requires the
    purchase of supplements or diet pills isn't worth doing anyway.
     
  20. Do you read and do research using the 'superslow' protocol also?

    --
    Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW


    "Renegade5" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 02:33:50 GMT, "JC Der Koenig"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>Dr. Barry Sears?
    >>
    >>He wouldn't be trying to sell you anything, would he?

    >
    > You're right... better to go with the recommendations of The Atkins
    > Corperation... er... I mean Foundation <tm> :)
    >
     
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