China Economy Closes On U.s. And Japan

[Carrera]

I suppose I tend to go on about this point like a dog with a bone but I say it again: The U.S. and U.K. are getting to a stage where they cease to have a definition of national interest. The populations have diversified to such an extent they're now employing scores of nationalities in high positions. There have been so many cases of Russians feeding classified information back to Russia from employment positions in the U.S. and U.K. or Chinese spies simply getting a classified job in the U.S.
Now we see how this Iranian translator has stuffed NATO up.
Let me say there is no way any American or Brit would be employed in Russian nuclear technological faculties. That's why the U.S. doesn't really know a great deal about Russia's hidden technology.
As for the U.K., these days you stand a better chance of employment in MI5 if you hail from maybe Egypt or Syria than if you're, say, Welsh or a Scot. There have been so many cases of information being sent back to other countries the U.S. no longer shares sensitive information with British Intelligence, although the U.S. Intelligence itself is pretty lax. Both countries are slowly suffering disastrous setbacks through the political correctness dogma which undermines common sense.
Bombing China's Embassy won't help. The U.S. gave a Chinese national access to classified nuclear secrets and blood is thicker than water. The Chinese specialist simply opted to help his own country get the upper hand.

I would say that Belgrade bombing being one of the most stupid thing the Yanks did, knowingly or unknowingly. Irrespective of intelligence or other benefits, it basically fired up the Chinese people and saw the US for what it is. Up to that point, many Mainland Chinese perceived the US as the snow wonderland and believed all that Hollywood gloss of the US.

As for the intelligence staffing and gathering. Actually, intelligence on China is much easier to obtain for the Western countries through money. As demonstrated on the numerous spy/defection cases to the west, money has been the most effective channel to gather Chinese intelligence data by far. And to date, it has been relatively easy, much easier than the Chinese trying to get any data out of any Western countries.

 

[sogood]

I see we have a graduate from the London School of Economic's...NOT You need to stick to your specialty-whatever that might be Incidentally, is that a womens frame bike in your avatar In regard to your comment about soldiers (don't know how that fits into this thread ) I heard that the Chinese Secret Police are doing a swimmingly good job themselves

Wahaha... Starting personal attacks based on male vs female bike frames? You are just brilliant! But the really disappointing part is that you can't even get your facts right on a basic bike model. The Cameleonte model range is a unisexed hybrid range, nothing to do with male or female. With this pathetic level of fact finding and skewed standard of flaming, I think you should go and take a Christmas day outdoor swim to cool your senses!

 

[sogood]

The Chinese specialist simply opted to help his own country get the upper hand.

Which case were you referring to? That well known case relating to the Los Alamos scientist Wen Ho Lee got dragged through the media causing such a sensation, and the end result of charges were just some lax procedural issues that I get the impression (many similar reports of mishandling of data in the news) was repeated daily at most facilities of similar level at that time. Nothing to do with spying. At the end, a judge apologized to him on behalf of the US government for the way he was locked up in solitary confinement for so long and the way he was treated throughout the whole case.

 

[davidmc]

Wahaha... Starting personal attacks based on male vs female bike frames? You are just brilliant! But the really disappointing part is that you can't even get your facts right on a basic bike model. The Cameleonte model range is a unisexed hybrid range, nothing to do with male or female. With this pathetic level of fact finding and skewed standard of flaming, I think you should go and take a Christmas day outdoor swim to cool your senses!

My apologies. I don't know anybody who rides a hybrid bike except a couple of casual type rider's. Oh well, to each his own. As to the 'Whahaha' comment you habitually preface your comments with, I attempted to research it via the dictionary & could'nt find it Christmas day Christmas day ...See my signature. Incidentally, you didn't explain what your comment about U.S. soldiers has anything at all to do w/ the Chinese artificially 'pegging' their currency Please to explain. I ask because not only was it not germaine to the conversation but it reveals your true agenda. Why don't you start a seperate thread for that kind of 'flaming'
I can't figure you out. You come off as a fiscal libertarian/conservative but, based on your off-hand remarks, come-off as a social liberal. Am I right

 

[sogood]

My apologies. I don't know anybody who rides a hybrid bike except a couple of casual type rider's.

You are most deficient in your understanding of non-casual type riders. Most of the non-casual type riders have a number of bikes. You are shaming yourself through the pathetic "evidence" you bring up!

 

[davidmc]

You are most deficient in your understanding of non-casual type riders. Most of the non-casual type riders have a number of bikes. You are shaming yourself through the pathetic "evidence" you bring up!

'round these parts, hybrid=casual/leisure. I'm not making this stuff up, I'm just stating what I have encountered. A hybrid will do what it is intended/designed to do-leisure-type, non-extreme riding. Nothing wrong w/ that. I do commend you ,however, for riding bikes.

 

[sogood]

'round these parts, hybrid=casual/leisure. I'm not making this stuff up, I'm just stating what I have encountered. A hybrid will do what it is intended/designed to do-leisure-type, non-extreme riding. Nothing wrong w/ that. I do commend you ,however, for riding bikes.

You may not think you are making this stuff up, but your skewed perception of cycling as a sport and daily transport is so terribly narrow, it's not worth continuing. Hundreds and thousands of high mileage tourers/commuters use hybrid bikes with total mileage no lower than the sports road riders. And your narrow reading of "Camaleonte IV" without taking into account of "morphed" bit just shows your poor research and understanding of an issue before firing with both guns.

 

[davidmc]

You may not think you are making this stuff up, but your skewed perception of cycling as a sport and daily transport is so terribly narrow, it's not worth continuing. Hundreds and thousands of high mileage tourers/commuters use hybrid bikes with total mileage no lower than the sports road riders. And your narrow reading of "Camaleonte IV" without taking into account of "morphed" bit just shows your poor research and understanding of an issue before firing with both guns.

You are correct. There is a wide range of bikes in this category however-both of us digress. You made a point about economics I find incomprehensible-non-floating currencies are equated fairly w/ floating currencies. I don't see how anyone in a country that has a stock market can put forth this assertion. I beleive Australia has a stock market & it fluctuates as do all fair stock markets w/ floating currencies. China's currency does not fluctuate. They are not playing by the rules, thus hurting workers in countries who do play by the rules (fluctuating currency valuations redulting in elastic markets) You also wove an occurence involving the U.S. military into this discussion, for what reason I do not know

 

[sogood]

They are not playing by the rules, thus hurting workers in countries who do play by the rules...

Haha, the US should be the last country to complain about not playing by the rules within the WTO framework. BTW, what rules are you talking about wrt currency? The setting of a country's currency is the soverign right of the country concerned. Believing your politicians and media in their China bashing and off-loading of their own economic responsibilities is as ignorant as your understanding of hybrid bikes within the cycling community.

 

[davidmc]

Haha, the US should be the last country to complain about not playing by the rules within the WTO framework. BTW, what rules are you talking about wrt currency? The setting of a country's currency is the soverign right of the country concerned. Believing your politicians and media in their China bashing and off-loading of their own economic responsibilities is as ignorant as your understanding of hybrid bikes within the cycling community.

Is your countries currency pegged I doubt it. This discussion doesn't seem to be advancing very far mon ami China is the only major trading partner that I'm aware of that doesn't allow its currency to float BUT thats O.K. according to the bank/country of 'sogood' Again, I ask you-where did you recieve your degree in economics and are you over 15yrs of age &, if so, how many years under 20 Now I see why no one else seems interested in responding to your rantings I'm moving on. You might want to try & attempt to read the financial times if it isn't beyond your comprehension & you might learn something about fair trade practices.

 

[sogood]

Is your countries currency pegged

You are indeed confused, and badly at that! I would suggest that you start with a bit of Wikipedia. Watching Fox News has a deleterious effect on one's intelligence!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchange_rate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating_currency
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renminbi#Exchange_rate

 

[davidmc]

You are indeed confused, and badly at that! I would suggest that you start with a bit of Wikipedia. Watching Fox News has a deleterious effect on one's intelligence!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchange_rate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating_currency
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renminbi#Exchange_rate

Ah ha So you admit your error.

A floating currency is a currency that uses a floating exchange rate as its exchange rate regime. A floating currency is contrasted with a fixed currency.

In the modern world, the majority of the world's currencies are floating, including the most widely traded currencies: the United States dollar, the Japanese yen, the euro, the British pound and the Australian dollar. From 1946 to the early 1970s, the Bretton Woods system made fixed currencies the norm; however, in 1971, the United States government abandoned the gold standard, so that the US dollar was no longer a fixed currency, and most of the world's currencies followed suit.

A floating currency is one where targets other than the exchange rate itself are used to administer monetary policy. See open market operations.

The People's Republic of China recently repegged their currency, which was formerly affixed to the US dollar.

I won't hold it against you

 

[davidmc]

You are indeed confused, and badly at that! I would suggest that you start with a bit of Wikipedia. Watching Fox News has a deleterious effect on one's intelligence!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchange_rate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating_currency
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renminbi#Exchange_rate

That must have went over your head. Adults use this debating tactic from time to time. I should have guessed that you wouldn't have caught-on. Oh well Incidentally Fox (faux) News is one of your countrymen's invention Please explain. Additionally, your PM is conservative so you have the best of both worlds-a right wing news organization & a right wing PM. All that aside, I do like the Australians I have met w/ one exception that is

 

[willocrew]

The Solow Economic model explains China's rapidly growing economy.

However it also predicts deminishing returns to capital investment.

Consequently, the model predicts a tapering off of China's growth, as it approaches the likes of US, Japan.

 

[willocrew]

It is simple. They are cheating by not allowing their currency to float as the U.S. & U.K. (pretty much-everyone) do.

............. It is shameful and debilitating to the west's economies

This point on "cheating" you bring up only begins to scratch the surface of a more in depth argument made by some US economist over the undervalued Yuan. Furthermore this angle of argument is narrow and incorrect. Some economist blame poor US economic performance on the CHINA PHENOMENON. However this alleged negative China influence dims in significance when you look at the US RGDP attributed to trading with China.

I'll try to find a link to the journal that comments on this. Its very interesting.

 

[Carrera]

Merry Xmas to you both. Now, where were we.....?
I think in the future we may be looking at a far more diverse America and I can see this has been a major factor of late.
America started out through pioneers who arrived mostly from Europe with very many Irish, Slavs, Germans and Britons. English was adopted as the main language.
However, over the last few years we've seen thousands of thousands of Hispanics arrive (many in the military), more Africans, Arabs and Orientals.
This tells us that in another 20 years there is going to be a whole series of Americas in one America. There will be African America, Arab America, Hispanic America, Asian America and European America.
Somewhere at the top will be a President. As in the case with the Romans, eventually these Presidents may be African, Arab, Jewish, German and whatever.
America still isn't as diverse as Rome in 300 A.D. but it's getting there.
Even today, many military decisions are taken by Hispanic generals which, I figure, may partly explain the sudden abuses of human rights that wouldn't have been acceptable some years ago in the U.S. In countries such as Argentina, abuses of human rights are fairly commonplace. Sometimes imported ways of doing things become grafted in but we've been brainwashed into the belief all immigration must be a positive - never a negative.
This is the problem America already has - the contrast of values and the emerging Americas. This is what causes so many problems for the Romans. The Romans started out as a kind of Italian/Latin superpower with a Senate but became more diverse as time passed by and more peoples were absorbed. This diversity led to disunity in the infrastructure and contrasting value systems and many difficulties. Even Latin was virtually replaced by Greek.
I recall Margaret Thatcher did refer to this some years ago. She once stated America was turning its back on its root values and becoming too diverse. What horrifed her was the idea Spanish could be the main language in the U.S. On the quiet she believed America was becoming too open to cultural change.

Which case were you referring to? That well known case relating to the Los Alamos scientist Wen Ho Lee got dragged through the media causing such a sensation, and the end result of charges were just some lax procedural issues that I get the impression (many similar reports of mishandling of data in the news) was repeated daily at most facilities of similar level at that time. Nothing to do with spying. At the end, a judge apologized to him on behalf of the US government for the way he was locked up in solitary confinement for so long and the way he was treated throughout the whole case.

 

[davidmc]

This point on "cheating" you bring up only begins to scratch the surface of a more in depth argument made by some US economist over the undervalued Yuan. Furthermore this angle of argument is narrow and incorrect. Some economist blame poor US economic performance on the CHINA PHENOMENON. However this alleged negative China influence dims in significance when you look at the US RGDP attributed to trading with China.

I'll try to find a link to the journal that comments on this. Its very interesting.

Its simple really. Thier wages are a tiny fraction of ours & they don't enjoy workers rights. Our rich industrialists are pressed to send their production overseas to compete w/ other industrialists who do same. U.S. productivity rises every year BUT w/ a marginal wage increase due to the sea of imports that come into this country I beleive Nixon/Kissinger thought that increased trade would bring about freedoms in china. How wrong they were for all concerned. Our stores over here, all of them, should be named "China 'R' Us". Everything is made by slave (read-underpaid) &/or child labor w/o just compensation. Is the communist parties control weakening during all of this Not noticeably so.

 

[sogood]

Its simple really.

Your depth of knowledge and analytics match that of your present day President, who argued and sold his Iraq/Regime Change concept to his populace in a similar way... It's simple really!

 

[sogood]

I think in the future we may be looking at a far more diverse America...

I agree. The strength of America has always been its diversity and it's ability to attract the creme de la creme from every country. But it'll be interesting how it works out for the Muslim sub-group there in America.

 

[Carrera]

Is there really strength in diversity as the U.S. claims? Plato, for one, disagreed. Roman generals always used the diversity of people they fought against as a means to "divide and rule". They used these tactics against Britain since Britain around 100 B.C. was a tribal nation made up of groups of Celts and Germans. They were too divided to resist the unified Romans which is something Caesar understood very well.
The Greeks always analysed disunity in other societies. They understood if you arm a dozen or so ethnic groups within a country, the war is half-won before you even send your troops in.
The U.S. in my opinion never was a superpower in the sense it's been portrayed. It was the same thing with the USSR. Both countries were propped up only by nuclear weapons but internally there were all sorts of problems. The U.S. has never been tested by an invading army as Russia was in WW2 and always relied on a huge stack of weapons controlled by a political elite at the top. However, beneath all that, the U.S. has many many chinks in its armour.

I agree. The strength of America has always been its diversity and it's ability to attract the creme de la creme from every country. But it'll be interesting how it works out for the Muslim sub-group there in America.