China Overtaking Europe

[Carrera]

The latest data concludes China has just overtaken Italy in the world economic ratings and is soon going to overtake Britain and France. The growth of China's economy has been under-estimated by both the Chinese government and in other countries.
China's productivity and economic advancement is proceeding at a dramatic rate, twice as fast as previously thought.
China has some huge advantages over Europe. There is no religious extremism allowed in China and so it's far more stable than France for foreign investment. Jobs being created revolve around core manufacturing. China now is like the U.S. after WW2 with manufacturing positively booming within the country.
And China is well-set to win more medals than any other country in the next Olympics as they adopted the old Soivet athletics program that won Moscow so many gold medals.
"One report says that China's economy is growing faster than any other major country, and that it has surpassed Italy to become the sixth largest economy in the world.
At current exchange levels, China could overtake France next year, and the UK by 2005 or 2006, Bloomberg said.
China's trade volume is forecast to hit a record $500bn (£344.4bn; 564.4 euros) in 2001, while its gross domestic product was about $1.16 trillion."

 

[wolfix]

They also have no enviromental concerns which cripple Europe/USA.
They have no governmental regulations which cripple Europe/USA.
They are not labor friendly.
Just here in my home towm there has been an explosion of Chinise take-out & "all you can eat" mystery buffets.
They talk funny.

 

[MountainPro]

They talk funny.

and a bank manager earns $2.00 an hour, just think how little they are paying thier factory workers. China will over take us all soon...still, i have my health and mental faculties...i spose in future years i could make a living selling ear wax to the Chinese candle manufacturing consortuim....

 

[Carrera]

There's too much negativity about China. China will become a very powerful economic giant where western companies will make enormous amounts of money. Chinese people will also loosen up a hell of a lot. Chinese people now have a taste for the good life, discos, fashion, coffee-shops and especially tourism.
The Chinese government is also relaxing and it's pretty obvious politicians will be forced to treat their people better as they prosper and become more free.
The only real concern is relations with Japan that are a bit sour.
I know many Chinese people personally and let me say they're a good laugh and very hospitable. Their main interest is getting a good education and making money.
Plus, they can cook damned good food!

and a bank manager earns $2.00 an hour, just think how little they are paying thier factory workers. China will over take us all soon...still, i have my health and mental faculties...i spose in future years i could make a living selling ear wax to the Chinese candle manufacturing consortuim....

 

[Billsworld]

There's too much negativity about China. China will become a very powerful economic giant where western companies will make enormous amounts of money. Chinese people will also loosen up a hell of a lot. Chinese people now have a taste for the good life, discos, fashion, coffee-shops and especially tourism.
The Chinese government is also relaxing and it's pretty obvious politicians will be forced to treat their people better as they prosper and become more free.
The only real concern is relations with Japan that are a bit sour.
I know many Chinese people personally and let me say they're a good laugh and very hospitable. Their main interest is getting a good education and making money.
Plus, they can cook damned good food!

I think you have more faith in the communists to "relax" than I do. I would look for them to become a stronger military force with thier windfall profits from slave labour, faster than they might "relax" Look for them do develop huge amounts of nuclear power first . Thank the Madalyn Notsobright for helping them along.

 

[Jupiler]

The latest data concludes China has just overtaken Italy in the world economic ratings and is soon going to overtake Britain and France. The growth of China's economy has been under-estimated by both the Chinese government and in other countries.
China's productivity and economic advancement is proceeding at a dramatic rate, twice as fast as previously thought.
China has some huge advantages over Europe. There is no religious extremism allowed in China and so it's far more stable than France for foreign investment. Jobs being created revolve around core manufacturing. China now is like the U.S. after WW2 with manufacturing positively booming within the country.
And China is well-set to win more medals than any other country in the next Olympics as they adopted the old Soivet athletics program that won Moscow so many gold medals.
"One report says that China's economy is growing faster than any other major country, and that it has surpassed Italy to become the sixth largest economy in the world.
At current exchange levels, China could overtake France next year, and the UK by 2005 or 2006, Bloomberg said.
China's trade volume is forecast to hit a record $500bn (£344.4bn; 564.4 euros) in 2001, while its gross domestic product was about $1.16 trillion."

The fact that the Chinese economy is booming is undeniable, but you don't mention that there are 1.5 million chinese people and just about 50 or 60 million Italians, which means that the great majority of Chinese are still dirt poor...

"There is no religious extremism allowed in China and so it's far more stable than France for foreign investment."
As far as I know they don't allow religion period! What does religion has to do with the economic problems of france anyhow

"And China is well-set to win more medals than any other country in the next Olympics as they adopted the old Soivet athletics program that won Moscow so many gold medals."

Again, logically they should be winning the most medals with that huge population. By the way, did they adopt the Soviet doping programs as well??

 

[davidmc]

I know many Chinese people personally and let me say they're a good laugh and very hospitable. Their main interest is getting a good education and making money.
Plus, they can cook damned good food!

Are you aware of their expenditures as a % of GDP Isn't it up @ 20 or so Also, as others have noted, they have no regard for environmental not to mention copyright protection hence, WTO violations. They will, no doubt get, the seal of approval because they buy other countries debt/s.

 

[Billsworld]

Are you aware of their expenditures as a % of GDP Also, as others have noted, they have no regard for environmental not to mention copyright protection hence, WTO violations. They will, no doubt get, the seal of approval because they buy other countries debt/s.

Well put DV....Whos debt Are you refering to??? . I wonder if we can get the UN to have China to forget about the debt we have borrowed of late

 

[ptlwp]

Inevitable, I'd say.

 

[limerickman]

The latest data concludes China has just overtaken Italy in the world economic ratings and is soon going to overtake Britain and France. The growth of China's economy has been under-estimated by both the Chinese government and in other countries.
China's productivity and economic advancement is proceeding at a dramatic rate, twice as fast as previously thought.
China has some huge advantages over Europe. There is no religious extremism allowed in China and so it's far more stable than France for foreign investment. Jobs being created revolve around core manufacturing. China now is like the U.S. after WW2 with manufacturing positively booming within the country.
And China is well-set to win more medals than any other country in the next Olympics as they adopted the old Soivet athletics program that won Moscow so many gold medals.
"One report says that China's economy is growing faster than any other major country, and that it has surpassed Italy to become the sixth largest economy in the world.
At current exchange levels, China could overtake France next year, and the UK by 2005 or 2006, Bloomberg said.
China's trade volume is forecast to hit a record $500bn (£344.4bn; 564.4 euros) in 2001, while its gross domestic product was about $1.16 trillion."

In terms of economies, you're going the same root as an ex-member who attempted to compare apples with pears.

The Chinese economy is growing - so you're correct.
But that's about as informative as saying the grass is green.
To compare China to a country like Italy or France is non-sensical.

In case you haven't heard we're in an era of globalisation : to extract any relevant data, you need to compare economic blocks and not individual countries (and especially not individual countries where the basis economic tenet of labour numbers are so disparate).

So to try to draw an inference, you need to compare China with the EU or China with India, or China with North America.

In terms of economic performance, Europe is the strongest performing economic block anywhere on the planet.
That is the benchmark for measuring how successful China is.

The others here have posted points about how deregulated China is, how it ignores Kyoto, how it ignore WTO.
This all contributes to China's economic progress.
But China - as regards Europe - is the ha'penny place, despite it's economic growth of recent years.

 

[Billsworld]

In terms of economies, you're going the same root as an ex-member who attempted to compare apples with pears.

The Chinese economy is growing - so you're correct.
But that's about as informative as saying the grass is green.
To compare China to a country like Italy or France is non-sensical.

In case you haven't heard we're in an era of globalisation : to extract any relevant data, you need to compare economic blocks and not individual countries (and especially not individual countries where the basis economic tenet of labour numbers are so disparate).

So to try to draw an inference, you need to compare China with the EU or China with India, or China with North America.

In terms of economic performance, Europe is the strongest performing economic block anywhere on the planet.
That is the benchmark for measuring how successful China is.

The others here have posted points about how deregulated China is, how it ignores Kyoto, how it ignore WTO.
This all contributes to China's economic progress.
But China - as regards Europe - is the ha'penny place, despite it's economic growth of recent years.

I have heard it said that the state of California is the 5th largest economy in the world. Thats one state

 

[limerickman]

I have heard it said that the state of California is the 5th largest economy in the world. Thats one state

That is correct :

But my point is that California functions within an economic entity called the USA.

China's economic success is centred on the eastern chinese coast around Shanghai.

 

[Billsworld]

That is correct :

But my point is that California functions within an economic entity called the USA.

China's economic success is centred on the eastern chinese coast around Shanghai.

I wasnt really looking for a battle, but I would like to see the EU vs.US, or North America. Not sure which would be larger in ecenomic sense.. My guess is NA would dwarf EU. I think dave and wolfix have touched several times on the reasons China can boom . They are not weighed down with providing social services to anyone that happens to not want to work. No imigration problems .No enviromental regulations. Basicly have slave lobour. I think unlike the former USSR, they will NOT go down the path of becoming a little bit more capitalistic. They will begin to provide the people with things like electricity (nuclear ), running water and more public transportation. These are enough of standard of living changes to keep most of the masses in China happy and working. Question is ...when the masses want freedom, will they clamp down or loosen up??

 

[Carrera]

Hmmm, I'm afraid we seem to be destined to disagree. However, I think david will be on your side over this one (China).
A few months ago, I shared the same European dream you do but my feeling is Europe is going to sour - which is a pity. I don't believe Europe can hope to compete with China and I'll go so far to say China will definitely be the next global superpower.
China is the only military/economic rival to the U.S. Europe has a higher living standard than the U.S. but level of jobs created fall way short of what is required. Europe isn't creating sufficent manufacturing jobs while China is soaring ahead.
The Chinese military program is progressing and heavily linked to the space program so China is expected to leave Europe way behind militarily.
If China's economy continues to grow at this rate it will be right up there with the U.S. very shortly and it's set to overtake France within a very short space of time.
"On the new data, China has eclipsed Italy as the world’s sixth largest economy and should overtake France and Britain next year. It would already have done so if Hong Kong, which is accounted for separately, had been factored in.
China’s GDP is now reckoned to have been worth just under 16trillion yuan, or $1.93 trillion (£1.1 trillion) last year, 16.8 per cent more than it had thought. Projections by Goldman Sachs show that, on present trends, China will leapfrog the US to become the world’s biggest economy by 2035."

In terms of economies, you're going the same root as an ex-member who attempted to compare apples with pears.

The Chinese economy is growing - so you're correct.
But that's about as informative as saying the grass is green.
To compare China to a country like Italy or France is non-sensical.

In case you haven't heard we're in an era of globalisation : to extract any relevant data, you need to compare economic blocks and not individual countries (and especially not individual countries where the basis economic tenet of labour numbers are so disparate).

So to try to draw an inference, you need to compare China with the EU or China with India, or China with North America.

In terms of economic performance, Europe is the strongest performing economic block anywhere on the planet.
That is the benchmark for measuring how successful China is.

The others here have posted points about how deregulated China is, how it ignores Kyoto, how it ignore WTO.
This all contributes to China's economic progress.
But China - as regards Europe - is the ha'penny place, despite it's economic growth of recent years.

 

[limerickman]

I wasnt really looking for a battle, but I would like to see the EU vs.US, or North America. Not sure which would be larger in ecenomic sense.. My guess is NA would dwarf EU. I think dave and wolfix have touched several times on the reasons China can boom . They are not weighed down with providing social services to anyone that happens to not want to work. No imigration problems .No enviromental regulations. Basicly have slave lobour. I think unlike the former USSR, they will NOT go down the path of becoming a little bit more capitalistic. They will begin to provide the people with things like electricity (nuclear ), running water and more public transportation. These are enough of standard of living changes to keep most of the masses in China happy and working. Question is ...when the masses want freedom, will they clamp down or loosen up??

According to "The Economist" the EU is the largest trading entity on the planet.

 

[Carrera]

Another point: Chinese students form the core of my local university and come here to study owed to rich parents e.t.c.
China is churning out thousands more graduates than in Britain (where student levels have dropped hugely due to no more state funding). Now, many Chinese are here studying business and English.
China will have a better, more educated workforce than we have in a few more decades. I speak also from personal experience as I know a lot of Chinese people and meet students all the time.
The only snag is they have a tendency to wear these ridiculous long-johns in the gym.

 

[limerickman]

Hmmm, I'm afraid we seem to be destined to disagree. However, I think david will be on your side over this one (China).

This discussion isn't about whom is on who's side.

A few months ago, I shared the same European dream you do but my feeling is Europe is going to sour - which is a pity. I don't believe Europe can hope to compete with China and I'll go so far to say China will definitely be the next global superpower.

Europe outperforms China : if you're sour living in Europe you'd be really sour in China.

China’s GDP is now reckoned to have been worth just under 16trillion yuan, or $1.93 trillion (£1.1 trillion) last year, 16.8 per cent more than it had thought. Projections by Goldman Sachs show that, on present trends, China will leapfrog the US to become the world’s biggest economy by 2035."

$1.93 trillion is 10 time smaller than the EU current GDP.
2004 EU GDP = $11.3 trillion (that's 9 times the size of China's GDP)
source EUStat 2004

China is the only military/economic rival to the U.S. Europe has a higher living standard than the U.S. but level of jobs created fall way short of what is required. Europe isn't creating sufficent manufacturing jobs while China is soaring ahead.

Your taking rubbish again :
US GDP is 4.1%
EU is 4.3%.

 

[Carrera]

Er, I'm planning on learning Mandarin actually but I'll skip the script and try Romananized alphabet.
I firmly believe China will be the next (possibly biggest) global superpower.
I concede Europe has a far higher standard of living but Europe's economic growth isn't so impressive. Europeans simply won't be able to sustain their present living standard and welfare without vital economic growth. China has no such handicap.
"Over the past decade, according to the International Monetary Fund's latest World Economic Outlook, growth in the core economies of the EU that make up the eurozone has been a miserable two per cent per annum. Growth in China has been more than four times faster.Today, as a result of reforms dating back to the late 1970s, China has the most dynamic economy in the world and quite possibly in all history. Europe, by contrast, is fast becoming the "sick man" of the developed world - a title held by Japan for most of the past 15 years."

This discussion isn't about whom is on who's side.




Europe outperforms China : if you're sour living in Europe you'd be really sour in China.




$1.93 trillion is 10 time smaller than the EU current GDP.
2004 EU GDP = $11.3 trillion (that's 9 times the size of China's GDP)
source EUStat 2004






Your taking rubbish again :
US GDP is 4.1%
EU is 4.3%.

 

[wolfix]

The EU is the largest econmic block since sometime 2004.... Isn't there talk of a merger with North America?
I think there has been a lightening up of Chinese supression. But if they continue to embrace the policies of the rest of the world they will face the same problems as the other industrial countries face. The major one will be the human rights people will be crawling all over them. The envoromental people will be there... And China is just across a mudpuddle from California, so then people like Snoop Dogg, Barbra Streisand, and that guy from MASH will really have something to do......... Of course that guy from MASH will not be welcome. The Chinese will remember him from re-runs of MASH and think he was a real soldier. I am sure they still have bad feelings about him, Radar, Hawkeye, and Colonel Potter. And don't let me get started on Colonel Blake......

 

[Carrera]

I see China as going the way of seventies and eighties Japan but bigger terrain.
Still there is vast poverty in the country and outside urban areas. However, the cities are prospering, especially Bejing. Then you have Hong Kong which is reasonably content with China so far.
I have a friend who went to China and she told me the place is positively booming. In fact, it's getting more expensive over there for tourists than it used to be.
As for the E.U. six months ago I was a believer in the E.U. dream but the truth is Germany has huge unemployment and slow economic growth. Italy has already been overtaken by China and that's official. France is to be overtaken very shortly.
Maybe the most promising E.U. economy at present is Estonia (Ireland too), however, but this growth isn't shared throughout the E.U.
And above all the major flaw: Europe can never rival the U.S. so let's not kid ourselves. The problem is Europe is too divided and diverse and can never have one, concrete line of policy (in economic terms it will be tough and in foreign policy probably impossible).
So, you Americans on the forum might as well admit it. It's China you're awed by not Europe. Correct?

The EU is the largest econmic block since sometime 2004.... Isn't there talk of a merger with North America?
I think there has been a lightening up of Chinese supression. But if they continue to embrace the policies of the rest of the world they will face the same problems as the other industrial countries face. The major one will be the human rights people will be crawling all over them. The envoromental people will be there... And China is just across a mudpuddle from California, so then people like Snoop Dogg, Barbra Streisand, and that guy from MASH will really have something to do......... Of course that guy from MASH will not be welcome. The Chinese will remember him from re-runs of MASH and think he was a real soldier. I am sure they still have bad feelings about him, Radar, Hawkeye, and Colonel Potter. And don't let me get started on Colonel Blake......