cholesterol good or bad

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Susma Rio Sep, Nov 6, 2003.

  1. I read in a pharmaceutical book that the harm of cholesterol is not definitely proven, but the
    practice is to reduce it.

    I am spending a tidy sum everyday to bring down my cholesterol, in order to reduce the risk of blood
    and heart troubles.

    What is the fact about cholesterol and blood and heart troubles.

    Is the practice of reducing cholesterol like bloodletting in olden days?

    Please give me the facts about cholesterol.

    Susma Rio Sep
     
    Tags:


  2. Jeff

    Jeff Guest

    "Susma Rio Sep" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I read in a pharmaceutical book that the harm of cholesterol is not definitely proven, but the
    > practice is to reduce it.

    Based on the basic pathology of arterial plaques, including the fact the cholesterol has been shown
    to be in plaques, the fact the people with a high LDL and low HDL have higher rates of heart
    attacks, I would say that for all practical purposes, it is proven. Plus, it has been shown that
    cholesterol lowering drugs do decrease the risk of heart attacks in certain patients.

    > I am spending a tidy sum everyday to bring down my cholesterol, in order to reduce the risk of
    > blood and heart troubles.

    Perhaps you should take cheaper measures, like eating less and find cheaper ways to excercise.

    > What is the fact about cholesterol and blood and heart troubles.
    >
    > Is the practice of reducing cholesterol like bloodletting in olden days?

    Gee, I hope not. Bloodletting was never proven. Cholesterol's role in heart attacks is proven.

    > Please give me the facts about cholesterol.

    More information is available by searching google.

    Jeff

    > Susma Rio Sep
     
  3. Nicholas

    Nicholas Guest

    There's a strong enough epidemiological positive correlation to suggest that high cholesterol
    levels are correlated with heart troubles The kind of correlation is that people with heart attacks
    and coronary vascular diseases and arterial plaques have always higher than 180 cholesterol levels,
    while countries where cholesterol levels are lower heart attacks, coronary vascular disease and
    heart troubles are far more lower The evidence also is strong because in clinical trials they was
    able to lower risk and prevent heart troubles just by lowering cholesterol showing that cholesterol
    may be the primary or the only causal factor These studies are also consistent with experiment on
    cholesterol raising and lowering in animals Arterial plaques doesn't exist in a body where
    cholesterol level is low and in fact in countries where cholesterol levels are low arteriosclerosis
    is unknown and it's well known that by lowering cholesterol levels with diet or also statin drugs
    incidence and risk rate for coronary diseases as well as risk of heart attack decrease
    Incidentally, countries with both an high salt intake and a low cholesterol intake have a greater
    levels of hemorragic strokes Strokes are caused by rupture of cerebral intracranial vessels in the
    brain by lack of blood flow that it's positively related with a diet high in fat (mono, poly or
    sat) and by chonically high pressure Cholesterol seems to strengthen these arteries when they're
    already weakened by high blood pressure This means that when pressure level are normal, low levels
    of cholesterol are not any longer positively correlated with higher risk of hemorrhagic stroke Low
    cholesterol levels are therefore positively correlated with high level of stroke only in the
    presence of high blood pressure to coincide with lack of blood flow Namely, high intake of salt
    That's why the only countries were lower levels of cholesterol are positively correlated with
    higher risk of stroke have alsothe highest salt intake worldwide and high levels of hypertension
    Low cholesterol level are not positively correlated to increased risk of stroke in
    non-hyperternsive people That's why Japanese have higher hemmorhagic stroke levels than Americans
    correlated with low cholesterol since they have also higher levels of hypertesion and tripled salt
    intake On the other hand Tarahumara Indians who have even lower cholesterol levels have also the
    lowest hemmorhagic stroke rate correlated with no-salt intake and normal blood pressure levels
    10%-15% fat intake usually cause a drop of HDL levels as well as LDL While the HDL levels reached
    could be considered dangerously low for people in an high-fat diet or together with others causal
    factors, it's well know that cholesterol arterial clearance rate is way more faster when fat intake
    is low or moderate so the body doesn'tneed high levels of HDL The lower the LDL the lower the need
    for high levels of HDL

    Niky

    Kenney JJ Low-fat, high-carbohydrate diets and risk factors for ischemic heart disease Am J Clin
    Nutr 1997 Nov;66(5):1293-4

    Connor WE, Cerqueira MT, Connor RW, Wallace RB, et al The plasma lipids, lipoproteins, and diet of
    the Tarahumara Indians of Mexico. Am J Clin Nutr 1978;31:1131

    Perry HM Jr, Davis BR, Price TR, Applegate WB, Fields WS, et al Effect of treating isolated systolic
    hypertension on the risk of developing various types and subtypes of stroke JAMA. 2000 Jul
    26;284(4):465-71.

    Kenney JJ, Barnard RJ, Inkeles S. Very-low-fat diets donot necessarily promote small, dense LDL
    particles. Am J Clin Nutr. 1999;70:423- 4.

    Gillman MW, Cupples LA, Gagnon D, Posner BM, Ellison RC, Castelli WP, et al Protective effect of
    fruits and vegetables on development of stroke in men JAMA. 1995 Apr 12;273(14):1113-7

    Grundy SM Prevention of coronary heart disease through cholesterol reduction Am Fam Physician. 1997
    May 1;55(6):2250-8.

    Brinton EA, Eisenberg S, Breslow JL. A low-fat diet decreases high density lipoprotein (HDL)
    cholesterol levels by decreasing HDL apolipoprotein transport rates. J Clin Invest 1990;85:144-51.

    Rader DJ, Ikewaki K, Duverger N, et al. Very low high-density lipoproteins without coronary
    atherosclerosis Lancet 1993;342:1455-8.
     
  4. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    [email protected] (Susma Rio Sep) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > I read in a pharmaceutical book that the harm of cholesterol is not definitely proven, but the
    > practice is to reduce it.
    >
    > I am spending a tidy sum everyday to bring down my cholesterol, in order to reduce the risk of
    > blood and heart troubles.
    >
    > What is the fact about cholesterol and blood and heart troubles.
    >
    > Is the practice of reducing cholesterol like bloodletting in olden days?
    >
    > Please give me the facts about cholesterol.
    >
    > Susma Rio Sep

    Apparently those with high cholesterol have a greater incidence of cardio vascular disease.
    Unfortunately no studies have *proven* this to be the case. What is ignored is that those with lower
    levels of cholesterol have higher incidences of cancers. Your bloodletting analogy is supremely
    appropriate.

    TC
     
  5. Once upon a time, our fellow Susma Rio Sep rambled on about "cholesterol good or bad." Our champion
    De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

    >I read in a pharmaceutical book that the harm of cholesterol is not definitely proven, but the
    >practice is to reduce it.

    Correct!

    There is a very recent news story on it.

    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_14553.html "Current cholesterol measurements don't
    gauge the number or size of LDL particles, Haffner said. But measuring apoB indicates the number of
    LDL particles and whether they are the small, denser particles that are more dangerous.

    ``That is what is a better risk factor for heart disease,'' Haffner said."

    SOURCE: Williams K, Sniderman AD, Sattar N. Comparison of the Associations of Apolipoprotein B and
    Low-Density Lipoprotein Cholesterol With Other Cardiovascular Risk Factors in the Insulin Resistance
    Atherosclerosis Study (IRAS). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&-
    list_uids=14581403&dopt=Abstract Circulation. 2003 Oct 27 [Epub ahead of print] PMID: 14581403

    To wit: Apolipoprotein B (apoB) explains why people with low to normal cholersol levels still end up
    getting heart disease.

    Most of the people on this ng, don't keep up with current events. :(
    --
    John Gohde, Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a Science!

    Get started on improving your personal health and fitness, today.
    http://www.Tutorials.NaturalHealthPerspective.com/ Offering easy to understand lessons that will
    change your life.
     
  6. Nicholas

    Nicholas Guest

    "tcomeau" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] (Susma Rio Sep) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > I read in a pharmaceutical book that the harm of cholesterol is not definitely proven, but the
    > > practice is to reduce it.
    > >
    > > I am spending a tidy sum everyday to bring down my cholesterol, in order to reduce the risk of
    > > blood and heart troubles.
    > >
    > > What is the fact about cholesterol and blood and heart troubles.
    > >
    > > Is the practice of reducing cholesterol like bloodletting in olden days?
    > >
    > > Please give me the facts about cholesterol.
    > >
    > > Susma Rio Sep
    >
    > Apparently those with high cholesterol have a greater incidence of cardio vascular disease.
    > Unfortunately no studies have *proven* this to be the case. What is ignored is that those with
    > lower levels of cholesterol have higher incidences of cancers. Your bloodletting analogy is
    > supremely appropriate.

    This shows how ignorant you're Just ask an oncologist ! Low cholesterol doesn't have the ability to
    *cause* cancer What is well known instead is the fact that cancer and depression cause dysgeusia; an
    appetite disorder that causes aversion to any kind of dietary fat So, when this happen cholesterol
    lower because of dietary protein, fat and cholesterol aversion Low cholesterol is now the cause of
    cancer (just try find some physiological mechanism suggesting that having a lower cholesterol level
    cause cancer and let me know) but actually cancer is the cause of lower cholesterol This is well
    known by oncologists

    Many pathological processes are linked with lowered cholesterol levels: alcoholism, pulmunary
    disease and lung cancer Alcoholists have low cholesterol levels and so alcholism is correlated with
    low cholesterol, but guess what ? Low cholesterol doesn't cause a glass of liquor to magically
    appear in your hand !!

    Br Med J 313:651-2,'96 Havin too much evidence (depression, suicide and low cholesterol)


    >
    > TC
     
  7. B-Ob1

    B-Ob1 Guest

    see below

    Nicholas wrote:

    > "tcomeau" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > [email protected] (Susma Rio Sep) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > I read in a pharmaceutical book that the harm of cholesterol is not definitely proven, but the
    > > > practice is to reduce it.
    > > >
    > > > I am spending a tidy sum everyday to bring down my cholesterol, in order to reduce the risk of
    > > > blood and heart troubles.
    > > >
    > > > What is the fact about cholesterol and blood and heart troubles.
    > > >
    > > > Is the practice of reducing cholesterol like bloodletting in olden days?
    > > >
    > > > Please give me the facts about cholesterol.
    > > >
    > > > Susma Rio Sep
    > >
    > > Apparently those with high cholesterol have a greater incidence of cardio vascular disease.
    > > Unfortunately no studies have *proven* this to be the case. What is ignored is that those with
    > > lower levels of cholesterol have higher incidences of cancers. Your bloodletting analogy is
    > > supremely appropriate.
    >
    > This shows how ignorant you're Just ask an oncologist ! Low cholesterol doesn't have the ability
    > to *cause* cancer What is well known instead is the fact that cancer and depression cause
    > dysgeusia; an appetite disorder that causes aversion to any kind of dietary fat So, when this
    > happen cholesterol lower because of dietary protein, fat and cholesterol aversion Low cholesterol
    > is now the cause of cancer (just try find some physiological mechanism suggesting that having a
    > lower cholesterol level cause cancer and let me know) but actually cancer is the cause of lower
    > cholesterol This is well known by oncologists
    >
    > Many pathological processes are linked with lowered cholesterol levels: alcoholism, pulmunary
    > disease and lung cancer Alcoholists have low cholesterol levels and so alcholism is correlated
    > with low cholesterol, but guess what ? Low cholesterol doesn't cause a glass of liquor to
    > magically appear in your hand !!
    >
    > Br Med J 313:651-2,'96 Havin too much evidence (depression, suicide and low cholesterol)
    >
    > >
    > > TC

    This Cholesterol thing is a MYTH...however I'll explain later as E-Bay needs my attention. B-0b1
     
  8. Mattlb

    Mattlb Guest

    Susma Rio Sep wrote:
    >
    > I read in a pharmaceutical book that the harm of cholesterol is not definitely proven, but the
    > practice is to reduce it.
    >
    > I am spending a tidy sum everyday to bring down my cholesterol, in order to reduce the risk of
    > blood and heart troubles.
    >
    > What is the fact about cholesterol and blood and heart troubles.

    One simple fact is that high blood cholesterol is found in half of people who get coronary heart
    disease. In the other half something else is to blame. Cholesterol itself isn't to blame as long as
    it isn't oxidised (damaged). If you feed rabbits damaged cholesterol they get atherosclerosis; if
    you feed them undamaged cholesterol they don't (rabbits and animals in general don't get
    atherosclerosis in the wild, it's very much a human disease). Cooking at high temperatures or for
    long durations increases the amount of damaged cholesterol a person eats.

    Even damaged cholesterol isn't directly to blame. The problem comes when it damages the proteins
    that carry it around the body, specifically low density lipoprotein known as LDL. Damaged LDL not
    only lodges in the wall of the blood vessels, it also triggers white blood cells to consume
    it. There's usually so much LDL that the white blood cells burst and release all the damaged
    cholesterol back out again, along with all their destructive enzymes and free radicals.
    This increases the size of the deposit (plaque) in the blood cell wall and starts a vicious
    cycle which eventually ends up with a plaque big enough to block blood flow and you get a
    heart attack.

    Avoiding oxidised cholesterol is the key, but obviously the more cholesterol there is in the blood
    the more likely some of it will be (or get) oxidised. This is why people with a genetic disorder
    that keeps their blood LDL high are prone to atherosclerosis.

    MattLB
     
  9. Trent Duke

    Trent Duke Guest

    It is believed that LDL is bad and HDL is good.

    Based on lots of evidence!

    Trent

    -- Look and Feel Great! FREE weight loss and anti-aging group. Join now @
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/weightloss_health

    > From: [email protected] (Susma Rio Sep) Organization: http://groups.google.com
    > Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition Date: 6 Nov 2003 14:30:47 -0800 Subject: cholesterol good or bad
    >
    > I read in a pharmaceutical book that the harm of cholesterol is not definitely proven, but the
    > practice is to reduce it.
    >
    > I am spending a tidy sum everyday to bring down my cholesterol, in order to reduce the risk of
    > blood and heart troubles.
    >
    > What is the fact about cholesterol and blood and heart troubles.
    >
    > Is the practice of reducing cholesterol like bloodletting in olden days?
    >
    > Please give me the facts about cholesterol.
    >
    > Susma Rio Sep
     
  10. Jmk

    Jmk Guest

    Well, the question was not what is the best predictor of heart disease -- I'm guessing CRP is the
    current best predictor but I'm not sure -- but is cholestoral harmful. High cholesterol levels have
    been linked not only to heart disease but also to stroke, memory loss and kidney disease. I'm sure
    that others can add to this list.

    On 11/6/2003 10:10 PM, John 'the Man' wrote:
    > Once upon a time, our fellow Susma Rio Sep rambled on about "cholesterol good or bad." Our
    > champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...
    >
    >
    >>I read in a pharmaceutical book that the harm of cholesterol is not definitely proven, but the
    >>practice is to reduce it.
    >
    >
    > Correct!
    >
    > There is a very recent news story on it.
    >
    > http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_14553.html "Current cholesterol measurements
    > don't gauge the number or size of LDL particles, Haffner said. But measuring apoB indicates the
    > number of LDL particles and whether they are the small, denser particles that are more dangerous.
    >
    > ``That is what is a better risk factor for heart disease,'' Haffner said."
    >
    > SOURCE: Williams K, Sniderman AD, Sattar N. Comparison of the Associations of Apolipoprotein B and
    > Low-Density Lipoprotein Cholesterol With Other Cardiovascular Risk Factors in the Insulin
    > Resistance Atherosclerosis Study (IRAS). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrie-
    > ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14581403&dopt=Abstract Circulation. 2003 Oct 27 [Epub ahead of print] PMID:
    > 14581403
    >
    > To wit: Apolipoprotein B (apoB) explains why people with low to normal cholersol levels still end
    > up getting heart disease.
    >
    > Most of the people on this ng, don't keep up with current events. :(
    > --
    > John Gohde, Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a Science!
    >
    > Get started on improving your personal health and fitness, today.
    > http://www.Tutorials.NaturalHealthPerspective.com/ Offering easy to understand lessons that will
    > change your life.

    --
    jmk in NC
     
  11. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    "Nicholas" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "tcomeau" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > [email protected] (Susma Rio Sep) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > I read in a pharmaceutical book that the harm of cholesterol is not definitely proven, but the
    > > > practice is to reduce it.
    > > >
    > > > I am spending a tidy sum everyday to bring down my cholesterol, in order to reduce the risk of
    > > > blood and heart troubles.
    > > >
    > > > What is the fact about cholesterol and blood and heart troubles.
    > > >
    > > > Is the practice of reducing cholesterol like bloodletting in olden days?
    > > >
    > > > Please give me the facts about cholesterol.
    > > >
    > > > Susma Rio Sep
    > >
    > > Apparently those with high cholesterol have a greater incidence of cardio vascular disease.
    > > Unfortunately no studies have *proven* this to be the case. What is ignored is that those with
    > > lower levels of cholesterol have higher incidences of cancers. Your bloodletting analogy is
    > > supremely appropriate.
    >
    > This shows how ignorant you're Just ask an oncologist ! Low cholesterol doesn't have the ability
    > to *cause* cancer What is well known instead is the fact that cancer and depression cause
    > dysgeusia; an appetite disorder that causes aversion to any kind of dietary fat So, when this
    > happen cholesterol lower because of dietary protein, fat and cholesterol aversion Low cholesterol
    > is now the cause of cancer (just try find some physiological mechanism suggesting that having a
    > lower cholesterol level cause cancer and let me know) but actually cancer is the cause of lower
    > cholesterol This is well known by oncologists
    >
    > Many pathological processes are linked with lowered cholesterol levels: alcoholism, pulmunary
    > disease and lung cancer Alcoholists have low cholesterol levels and so alcholism is correlated
    > with low cholesterol, but guess what ? Low cholesterol doesn't cause a glass of liquor to
    > magically appear in your hand !!
    >
    > Br Med J 313:651-2,'96 Havin too much evidence (depression, suicide and low cholesterol)
    >
    >

    Hey maroon... I did not say that low cholesterol CAUSES cancer. What I said was: "those with lower
    levels of cholesterol have higher incidences of cancers". You have real problems reading and writing
    the english language.

    TC
     
  12. Jmk

    Jmk Guest

    On 11/7/2003 10:12 AM, tcomeau wrote:
    > "Nicholas" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >>"tcomeau" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    >>news:[email protected]...
    >>
    >>>[email protected] (Susma Rio Sep) wrote in message
    >>
    >> news:<[email protected]>...
    >>
    >>>>I read in a pharmaceutical book that the harm of cholesterol is not definitely proven, but the
    >>>>practice is to reduce it.
    >>>>
    >>>>I am spending a tidy sum everyday to bring down my cholesterol, in order to reduce the risk of
    >>>>blood and heart troubles.
    >>>>
    >>>>What is the fact about cholesterol and blood and heart troubles.
    >>>>
    >>>>Is the practice of reducing cholesterol like bloodletting in olden days?
    >>>>
    >>>>Please give me the facts about cholesterol.
    >>>>
    >>>>Susma Rio Sep
    >>>
    >>>Apparently those with high cholesterol have a greater incidence of cardio vascular disease.
    >>>Unfortunately no studies have *proven* this to be the case. What is ignored is that those with
    >>>lower levels of cholesterol have higher incidences of cancers. Your bloodletting analogy is
    >>>supremely appropriate.
    >>
    >>This shows how ignorant you're Just ask an oncologist ! Low cholesterol doesn't have the ability
    >>to *cause* cancer What is well known instead is the fact that cancer and depression cause
    >>dysgeusia; an appetite disorder that causes aversion to any kind of dietary fat So, when this
    >>happen cholesterol lower because of dietary protein, fat and cholesterol aversion Low cholesterol
    >>is now the cause of cancer (just try find some physiological mechanism suggesting that having a
    >>lower cholesterol level cause cancer and let me know) but actually cancer is the cause of lower
    >>cholesterol This is well known by oncologists
    >>
    >>Many pathological processes are linked with lowered cholesterol levels: alcoholism, pulmunary
    >>disease and lung cancer Alcoholists have low cholesterol levels and so alcholism is correlated
    >>with low cholesterol, but guess what ? Low cholesterol doesn't cause a glass of liquor to
    >>magically appear in your hand !!
    >>
    >>Br Med J 313:651-2,'96 Havin too much evidence (depression, suicide and low cholesterol)
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    > Hey maroon... I did not say that low cholesterol CAUSES cancer. What I said was: "those with lower
    > levels of cholesterol have higher incidences of cancers". You have real problems reading and
    > writing the english language.
    >
    > TC

    TC, do you have citations for this? I know that you are pretty good about your references so I
    thought that I would ask. My search came up empty (except for one really old article which I suspect
    you are not referring to) although I did find this:

    Lower Cholesterol for Improved Cancer Survival
    http://www.nealhendrickson.com/mcdougall/030800pulowercholesterol.htm

    ---

    Nutrient intake and risk of subtypes of esophageal and gastric cancer.

    Mayne ST, Risch HA, Dubrow R, Chow WH, Gammon MD, Vaughan TL, Farrow DC, Schoenberg JB, Stanford JL,
    Ahsan H, West AB, Rotterdam H, Blot WJ, Fraumeni JF Jr.

    "Higher intake of nutrients found primarily in plant-based foods was associated with a reduced risk
    of adenocarcinomas of the esophagus and gastric cardia, whereas higher intake of nutrients found
    primarily in foods of animal origin was associated with an increased risk."

    ---

    "A low cholesterol level is not a risk factor for any disease. At one time, it was thought that low
    cholesterol levels might increase the risk of liver disease or cancer until scientists realized that
    they had it backwards. Cancer and liver disease cause low cholesterol levels, not the other way
    around, because they affect your body's ability to manufacture cholesterol." http://my.webmd.com/co-
    ntent/pages/1/3079_1163.htm?lastselectedguid={5FE84E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}

    --
    jmk in NC
     
  13. Nicholas

    Nicholas Guest

    > >>"tcomeau" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    > >>news:[email protected]...

    > > Hey maroon... I did not say that low cholesterol CAUSES cancer. What I said was: "those with
    > > lower levels of cholesterol have higher incidences of cancers".

    But you said it in a way that implied that lower cholesterol are somewhat causal factors in
    cancer, or also that it would be better to have high level of cholesterol to be protected from
    cancer This is not the case Cancer lower cholesterol levels, not viceversa ... !! And it's
    completely nonsense and false to say that it's ignored that people suffering from cancer have low
    cholesterol levels, in fact it's a well known mechanism that every oncologist know concerning
    dysgeusia and fat/protein aversion

    >>You have real problems reading and writing the english
    > > language.

    Maybe because I'm not english mother tongue ?! In fact, I've never studies english I just learned it
    from reading and writing in the web ...it's reallt a dirty trick of you to lay on the fact that my
    english is not perfect in order to keep claiming false theories

    My aunt died of cancer ... Do you think her death caused cancer or the cancer caused her death ? So,
    cancer cause low cholesterol levels Having low cholesterol levels is completely safe and unrelated
    with respect of cancer risk

    Niky
     
  14. B-Ob1

    B-Ob1 Guest

    see below

    MattLB wrote:

    > Susma Rio Sep wrote:
    > >
    > > I read in a pharmaceutical book that the harm of cholesterol is not definitely proven, but the
    > > practice is to reduce it.
    > >
    > > I am spending a tidy sum everyday to bring down my cholesterol, in order to reduce the risk of
    > > blood and heart troubles.
    > >
    > > What is the fact about cholesterol and blood and heart troubles.
    >
    > One simple fact is that high blood cholesterol is found in half of people who get coronary heart
    > disease. In the other half something else is to blame. Cholesterol itself isn't to blame as long
    > as it isn't oxidised (damaged). If you feed rabbits damaged cholesterol they get atherosclerosis;
    > if you feed them undamaged cholesterol they don't (rabbits and animals in general don't get
    > atherosclerosis in the wild, it's very much a human disease). Cooking at high temperatures or for
    > long durations increases the amount of damaged cholesterol a person eats.
    >
    > Even damaged cholesterol isn't directly to blame. The problem comes when it damages the proteins
    > that carry it around the body, specifically low density lipoprotein known as LDL. Damaged LDL not
    > only lodges in the wall of the blood vessels, it also triggers white blood cells to consume
    > it. There's usually so much LDL that the white blood cells burst and release all the damaged
    > cholesterol back out again, along with all their destructive enzymes and free radicals. This
    > increases the size of the deposit (plaque) in the blood cell wall and starts a vicious cycle
    > which eventually ends up with a plaque big enough to block blood flow and you get a heart
    > attack.
    >
    > Avoiding oxidised cholesterol is the key, but obviously the more cholesterol there is in the blood
    > the more likely some of it will be (or get) oxidised. This is why people with a genetic disorder
    > that keeps their blood LDL high are prone to atherosclerosis.
    >
    > MattLB

    This "CHOLESTEROL" thing is a MYTH as LDL is used by the liVer fOR DIGESTION in concert with the
    stomach chemistry! When FASTING (as in the time tested) it is ALWAYS high as it is NOT being
    used to digest something that is NOT there! IF the tests were run 30 minutes after eating,,a
    better value of EXTRA LDL could be assessed. The ALLOPATHIC INDUSTRY USES SCARE TACTICS TO GET
    YOUR MONEY!! B-0B1
     
  15. Robert

    Robert Guest

    "Nicholas" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Susma Rio Sep" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > I read in a pharmaceutical book that the harm of cholesterol is not definitely proven, but the
    > > practice is to reduce it.
    >
    > There's a strong enough epidemiological positive correlation to suggest
    that
    > high cholesterol levels are linked with heart troubles The kind of correlation is that people with
    > heart attacks have always
    higher
    > than 180 cholesterol

    The question that normally presents itself after that statement is are all high choesterol levels
    due to diet alone and I say no.

    > levels, while countries when cholesterol intake is lower heart attacks and heart troubles are far
    > more lower The evidence also is strong because in clinical trial they was able to
    lower
    > risk and prevent heart troubles just by lowering cholesterol showing that cholesterol may
    be
    > the primary or the only causal factor

    The cholesterol was lowered with drugs and the problem I have with that is not all but only 50% of
    people with heart problems have an elevated cholesterol and if you look at the other risk factors
    tests like homocyteine, they are not related to cholesterol level.
    > These studies are also consistent with experiment on cholesterol raising
    and
    > lowering in animals Arterial plaques doesn't exist in a body where cholesterol level is low
    and
    > in fact in countries where cholesterol levels are low arteriosclerosis is unknown and it's well
    > known that by lowering cholesterol levels with diet or also statin drugs incidence and risk rate
    > for coronary diseases as well as lowering risk of heart attack

    I am with you there but too much emphasis on total cholesterol.

    > Incidentally, countries with both an high salt intake and a low
    cholesterol
    > intake have a greater levels of hemorragic strokes

    Generalization there and not taking into account the genetic make up of the countries as there is a
    high genetic component to hypertension as you mentioned salt handling. There is a high prevalence of
    hypertension in the states among blacks as one fellow put it that it was a plus during slavery in
    helping them survive the long voyage from africa to the states. Those not able to handle the salt
    load died on the way there. Salt sensitivity hypertension is also a trait among diabetes.

    > Strokes are caused by rupture of cerebral intracranial vessels in the
    brain
    > by lack of blood flow that it's positively related with a diet high in fat (mono, poly or sat) and
    > by chonic high pressure Cholesterol seems to strengthen these arteries when they're already
    weakened
    > by high blood pressure This means that when pressure level are normal, low levels of cholesterol
    > are not any longer correlated with more incidence of stroke Low cholesterol levels are therefore
    > positively correlated with high level of stroke only in the presence of high blood pressure to
    > coincide with lack of blood flow Namely, high intake of salt That's why the only countries were
    > lower levels of cholesterol have also
    the
    > higest salt intake worldwide

    I would assume the countries with the highest salt intake would be the countries that are the
    hottest. During my vacation stay in South America is was told to eat plenty of salt and never did
    but because of the heat I got into trouble.

    > On the other hand Tarahumara Indians who have even lower cholesterol
    levels
    > have also the lowest hemmorhagic stroke rate correlated with no salt intake and normal blood
    > pressure
    levels

    Now you are in a very small genetic group of people and you are really over generalizing. The forest
    indian tribes in South America have very few sweat glands as they don't need many with the rain
    forrest. If you take these people out of the forrest and make them sweat out in the sun then they
    get into trouble. The salt loss is very different with sweat patterns. You just can't correlate two
    different genetic groups like that.

    > 10%-15% fat intake usually cause a drop of HDL levels as well as LDL

    A high LDL usually results in a low HDL.
     
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