chris hoy vs philippe gilbert

[leanman]

i'm trying to see where weights for the legs are good are bad. where they help and hamper you.
who would win in a 1k race. outside, on flat ground.
chris hoy or Philippe Gilbert
5k?
10k
20k?
30k?
40k?
50 mile rr? same course no domistiques
75 mile rr? same course no domistiques.
my point is if chris hoy does very heavy squats for his start in track racing and for power, why wouldnt it work for him in a long and longer road race on flat ground?
he rides a lot of miles, so his specific riding training is there. .. why would most road racers beat him in longer races,with no hills, and he kill the road racers in shorter stuff?at what distance would the heavy squats not help him, and start to hamper him? and why? he rides a ton..so there are no hills to say a much bigger guy cant ride up hill as fast as a smaller man.so lets say chris can beat philippe at 1k 5k and 10k, why wouldnt he be able to beat philippe at 20k plus? would that mean that distance riding is what you need to be good at 20k plus ditances? so if chris rides more he'll win every flat rr around?
very curious
thanks

 

[daveryanwyoming]

Google:

- Neuromuscular power
- AWC (Anaerobic Work Capacity)
- CP (Critical Power)

And understand every rider has a blend of all three and many riders have far greater strengths in one vs the others. Then consider the ways the events you described favor riders with those different strengths. If that doesn't work Google: Power Profiling...

-Dave

 

[velomanct]

Heavy squats are definitely completely useless past any duration of 20 seconds.

The kilo is about a minute, and heavy squats may improve ones time for it, but that is because the rider MAY see the benefit in his start. The squats would do nothing for his anaerobic capacity or ability to ride the last 40 seconds of the kilo.

Road racers would smoke Hoy in a road race because Hoy doesn't train his threshold power like they do. Same reason Hoy would smoke them in a drag race.

This is really quite simple.

I'm also willing to bet that Hoy would still be a world class track sprinter if never touched a barbell in his life.

 

[frenchyge]

my point is if chris hoy does very heavy squats for his start in track racing and for power, why wouldnt it work for him in a long and longer road race on flat ground?

Because as has been pointed out several times before on your other threads, leg strength doesn't factor into long and longer road racing on flat ground.

Obviously, stating this repeatedly isn't getting any more convincing, so perhaps you'll need to do a little independent research on the subject in order to get a better answer than what asking the same question repeatedly has been able to provide.

 

[Enriss]

The squats would do nothing for his anaerobic capacity or ability to ride the last 40 seconds of the kilo.

I intend to test this with an n=1 test this spring. I've heard terrifying things about 20-rep breathing rep squat programs, and I'm going to see if I don't build some anaerobic work capacity from them.

 

[leanman]

velomanct
you comment here

Heavy squats are definitely completely useless past any duration of 20 seconds.

so reading your post, it looks like chris is only better than philippe for the first 20 seconds up to a minute??
i dont know the distance, but i would think all of chris' power plus his 200 miles a week riding would make him very hard to beat from 40k on down, vs just a normal road racer that rides twice the miles..
are there studies that say guys that ride a lot plus squat a ton are no better than guys that just ride??
where can i read up on these studies?
thanks

 

[gman0482]

I don't know of any studies that say weight lifting = cycling champion, but I think there are facts, that guys who just focus on cycling, rank as some of the best in the world.

Comparing those 2 is like apples & oranges.

(My .02cents)
-Greg

 

[frenchyge]

are there studies that say guys that ride a lot plus squat a ton are no better than guys that just ride??

Studies don't say that any rider is better than any other rider, that's why we have races.

Comparing those 2 is like apples & oranges.

Precisely. Who would win a slowpitch softball game between the New England Patriots and the Pakistan National Cricket Team? One the one hand, the NFL players are a lot bigger and probably hit for more power, but on the other hand, the cricket players get a lot more practice throwing, batting and catching balls -- tough call. No matter who wins, though, it doesn't say anything about how a competitive-league amateur softball team should prepare for their season.

Bottom line is that if you want to do heavy squats or upper body weightlifting, then do it. No one here is going to try and stop you.

 

[Enriss]

Bottom line is that if you want to do heavy squats or upper body weightlifting, then do it. No one here is going to try and stop you.

That's only because we haven't given out our addresses I'm sure.

 

[Felt_Rider]

Bottom line is that if you want to do heavy squats or upper body weightlifting, then do it. No one here is going to try and stop you.

Like Dacen mentioned in another thread if I were a competitive road cyclist I would love it if my competition believed in lifting. I would encourage them and pat them on the back and say, "you know you should try to lift more and cycle less. It is the new hot thing to do. Lance does it ya know."

Back when I competed in lifting I may have been guilty doing the opposite here and suggested to my potential competition should consider endurance activities because it may help their one rep max.

 

[fergie]

so reading your post, it looks like chris is only better than philippe for the first 20 seconds up to a minute??

Not a fair comparison as Hoy's events are 9.8sec to 43sec in duration and Gilbert's races are 4-6 hours in duration. Better to look at the Kilo and Pursuit and to say that even though the Kilo has a high aerobic components (around 49-51%) that Hoy would dominate a rider like Wiggins yet add just 3km and make it a pursuit which is 95% aerobic none of Hoy's strength would count for anything against an aerobic monster like Wiggins.

i dont know the distance, but i would think all of chris' power plus his 200 miles a week riding would make him very hard to beat from 40k on down, vs just a normal road racer that rides twice the miles.

Most of those miles are warming up and cooling down from highly anaerobic efforts and a lot of recovery miles. Compared to Wiggins who did a lot of consistent miles at very high aerobic tempos. As we all know just saying a rider does 200miles a week means nothing.

are there studies that say guys that ride a lot plus squat a ton are no better than guys that just ride??

Tissot - Official Timekeeper

All the times from the last few years Track World Cups and World Championships. Don't see any of the sprinters feature in the endurance events and none of the pursuiters feature in the sprint events. This is the difference between 200m-750m and 4000m to 40000m.

Now the Omnium (5-6 events from flying 200m to 15km Points Race) is an Olympic event I would expect that the sprinters who contest this even will see a decline in their performance as they develop the ability to ride a 3000m pursuit and the 2-3 mass start events.