"City Bike" Hot New Category at Bicycle Industry Show



In article <[email protected]>,
Matt O'Toole <[email protected]> writes:
> Wired has a nice article about how non-sport bikes are hot sellers again:
>
> http://www.wired.com/cars/coolwheels/news/2007/09/interbike_urbanbikers


I've empirically observed a growing trend in
more practical uses of bicycles than sports
equipment, myself.

I like it.

But I also like that bicycles /can/ be sports
equipment. Or recreational equipment. Or
work vehicles.

Bicycles are so versatile, it blows my mind.

It's all too easy to get locked into a mindset
about one's own style of cycling, and dismiss
all the others. But I must admit I enjoy a
certain pleasure in seeing sprouts of acceptance
of cycling as a serious, true mode of transportation.
I hope it thrives.

Some people have taken issue with the nomenclature:
"city bike", and I kinda feel the same way. I'm rather
taken with the description of bicycling as "Folk
Transportation". I suppose if one wants to be fancily
Euro about it, they can get on their VolksFahrrad.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
 
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
> are no lights supplied until you get all the way up to their top-of-the-line
> model, the World Adventure-http://www.schwinnbike.com/products/bikes_detail.php?id=954.


They put vertical dropouts and a chain tensioner on a bike that comes
*from the factory* with a gearhub?!?!! Are they on crack? (I mean,
this is Pacific Cycle we're talking about, so it's probably a
combination of betel nut and counterfeit Valium, but still... WTF?)

Chalo
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Chalo <[email protected]> writes:
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>
>> are no lights supplied until you get all the way up to their top-of-the-line
>> model, the World Adventure-http://www.schwinnbike.com/products/bikes_detail.php?id=954.

>
> They put vertical dropouts and a chain tensioner on a bike that comes
> *from the factory* with a gearhub?!?!!


People like to screw around with stuff.
That's why there are so many twisty-turny
knobs on sound system equipment.

> Are they on crack? (I mean,
> this is Pacific Cycle we're talking about, so it's probably a
> combination of betel nut and counterfeit Valium, but still... WTF?)


I think it's /customers/ of whom are being spoken.
Whatever they're (we're) on is anybody's guess.

Anyways, throw some features in, and up the price, and
yer off 'n runnin'.

At least it doesn't have slidy-outy coffee cup holders.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
 
On Sep 28, 7:05 am, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "Good" is such a relative term.
>
> Let's just say it's extremely rare (like never), to see one of these
> commute bikes out at night using only the dynamo lights. Of course the
> integrated dynamo lights are the only dynamos you're going to see around
> for commuters in most parts of the U.S., for technical and demographic
> reasons.
>
> I wouldn't say they're good. They're adequate "being seen lights" though
> the lack a standlight. They're probably good enough for riding slowly on
> familiar streets.


I'm amazed that professionals like Joe Breeze, the people at
Specialized, the people at Shimano, etc. (not to mention hundreds of
European manufacturers) don't bow to your authoritative knowledge!
Somehow, they don't seem to recognize that you're the World's Greatest
Authority on bike lighting. They think generator lights are a good
idea, and they don't repeat all your dire warnings!

> If some large company would make the effort to build a Cree based dynamo
> light in large quantities then the cost of the components of that light
> would come way down.


This will happen. Patience.

- Frank Krygowski
 
>> "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Wired has a nice article about how non-sport bikes are hot sellers again:
>>> http://www.wired.com/cars/coolwheels/news/2007/09/interbike_urbanbikers
>>> "City Bike" Hot New Category at Bicycle Industry Show


> BobT" <[email protected]> writes:
>> Oh no!
>> My commuter/touring bike and I might become hip!


Tom Keats wrote:
> Not if you're over a certain age and your bike is
> under a certain age.
> Actually, I doubt touring bikes will ever become hip.
> But then, ya never know.


You missed it! That was so 1978.
Another bike shop manager marvelled at the 'touring' fad at the time and
commented to me "We could sell dog turds in plastic bags if they were
marked 'touring'".
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
>> "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Wired has a nice article about how non-sport bikes are hot sellers again:
>>> http://www.wired.com/cars/coolwheels/news/2007/09/interbike_urbanbikers
>>> "City Bike" Hot New Category at Bicycle Industry Show


> BobT" <[email protected]> writes:
>> Oh no!
>> My commuter/touring bike and I might become hip!


Tom Keats wrote:
> Not if you're over a certain age and your bike is
> under a certain age.
> Actually, I doubt touring bikes will ever become hip.
> But then, ya never know.


You missed it! That was so 1978.
Another bike shop manager marvelled at the 'touring' fad at the time and
commented to me "We could sell dog turds in plastic bags if they were
marked 'touring'".
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> are no lights supplied until you get all the way up to their top-of-the-line
>> model, the World Adventure-http://www.schwinnbike.com/products/bikes_detail.php?id=954.


Chalo wrote:
> They put vertical dropouts and a chain tensioner on a bike that comes
> *from the factory* with a gearhub?!?!! Are they on crack? (I mean,
> this is Pacific Cycle we're talking about, so it's probably a
> combination of betel nut and counterfeit Valium, but still... WTF?)


Or just PCP and toluene? Sky Yaeger isn't at Bianchi any longer.
Bianchi also has an internal gear bike with the wrong ends and a
tensioner for 2008. Whatever for? Why, 'urban bike' with disc brake of
course.
O tempora, O mores.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
> At least it doesn't have slidy-outy coffee cup holders.

You can make fun of cup holders all you want, but people sometimes decide
with $23k car to buy based on how many cupholders it has. The bike industry
could do far worse than incorporate the means to easily carry your Starbucks
or Peets coffee back home.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Tom Keats" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Chalo <[email protected]> writes:
>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>
>>> are no lights supplied until you get all the way up to their
>>> top-of-the-line
>>> model, the World
>>> Adventure-http://www.schwinnbike.com/products/bikes_detail.php?id=954.

>>
>> They put vertical dropouts and a chain tensioner on a bike that comes
>> *from the factory* with a gearhub?!?!!

>
> People like to screw around with stuff.
> That's why there are so many twisty-turny
> knobs on sound system equipment.
>
>> Are they on crack? (I mean,
>> this is Pacific Cycle we're talking about, so it's probably a
>> combination of betel nut and counterfeit Valium, but still... WTF?)

>
> I think it's /customers/ of whom are being spoken.
> Whatever they're (we're) on is anybody's guess.
>
> Anyways, throw some features in, and up the price, and
> yer off 'n runnin'.
>
> At least it doesn't have slidy-outy coffee cup holders.
>
>
> cheers,
> Tom
>
> --
> Nothing is safe from me.
> I'm really at:
> tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
 
Fri, 28 Sep 2007 04:05:00 -0700, SMS:

>Gooserider wrote:
>
>> Cheaper is better for a dedicated commuter, I think. Of course, that depends
>> on the type of commute. But for something that may be locked to a rack all
>> day, or will be used for stops at the grocery store on the way home from
>> work---yes. They're making a big deal about the dynohub lights, but I don't
>> know how bright these lights will be. I know that there are good generator
>> lights(Lumotec, etc), but are these cheap ones good?


They are good enough to do the job - ride around the city or on smaller
streets in the suburbs. Brighter than much of the slamp-on headlights with
integrated battery-compartment.


>Let's just say it's extremely rare (like never), to see one of these
>commute bikes out at night using only the dynamo lights.


Ridiculous. have you been to central europe: Netherlands, germany,
switzerland? Towns are full of bikes at night - most with dynamo lights!

>I wouldn't say they're good. They're adequate "being seen lights" though
>the lack a standlight.


You don't know what you are talking about. The most standard Lumotec found
on european commuter bikes today is the "Lumotec Oval Senso Plus" - of
course with LED-standlight powered by a capacitor. On the back nearly all
commuter bikes (at least in germany) today are equipped with
dynamo-powered LED-lights with similar capacitor-standlight.

>If some large company would make the effort to build a Cree based dynamo
>light in large quantities then the cost of the components of that light
>would come way down.


They will be available in 2-3 weeks: Busch&Müller Lumotec Fly IQ. Much
brighter and more efficient shaped beam like the Solidlights 1203D you
always praise (much dimmer than a standard Lumotec halogen light - but a
little wider). Or the Inoled 20+ Model 2008. Or the Supernova E3 Model
2008...

Andreas
 
Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:38:43 -0400, Gooserider:

>>> $1900 Breezer Finesse. You're welcome.

>>
>> $1900 and no chain guard? Fail.

>
>. Crappy light


You don't know, what you are talking about. The Lumtec Fly IQ used here is
the brightest and best-shaped light for hub dynamos you can find. Will
beat most 20 W halogen lights!

Andreas
 
On Sep 29, 8:43 am, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >> are no lights supplied until you get all the way up to their top-of-the-line
> >> model, the World Adventure-http://www.schwinnbike.com/products/bikes_detail.php?id=954.

> Chalo wrote:
> > They put vertical dropouts and a chain tensioner on a bike that comes
> > *from the factory* with a gearhub?!?!! Are they on crack? (I mean,
> > this is Pacific Cycle we're talking about, so it's probably a
> > combination of betel nut and counterfeit Valium, but still... WTF?)

>
> Or just PCP and toluene? Sky Yaeger isn't at Bianchi any longer.
> Bianchi also has an internal gear bike with the wrong ends and a
> tensioner for 2008. Whatever for? Why, 'urban bike' with disc brake of
> course.
> O tempora, O mores.


Well, the frame does give you the option to change over to a
conventional derailleur arrangement if you like -- and as a
manufacturer, you can use the same frame for a lot of models. It looks
to me like Schwinn just took a hybrid frame and hung a bunch of trick
stuff on it -- going the kludge route to use the internal geared hub.
At that price point, personally, I would rather have a Pilot or a
Portland. -- Jay Beattie.
 
"Andreas Oehler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:38:43 -0400, Gooserider:
>
>>>> $1900 Breezer Finesse. You're welcome.
>>>
>>> $1900 and no chain guard? Fail.

>>
>>. Crappy light

>
> You don't know, what you are talking about. The Lumtec Fly IQ used here is
> the brightest and best-shaped light for hub dynamos you can find. Will
> beat most 20 W halogen lights!
>


Will it beat the DiNotte 200L? The NiteRider Minewt? I'm sure Frank
Krygowski will chime in---but more lumens are better. The only case in which
dynamo lights would be superior, in my mind, is touring. Otherwise, a good
LED rechargeable system is going to give you more light. Now, if I was
touring, or going to be places without access to electricity for long
stretches, then I'd run the dynamo.

The high-end luxury hybrid commuter is a product desperately seeking a
market. Trek lost a LOT of money trying that. I remember seeing Trek L200s
being blown out for $350. Bike shops aren't going to play that game again.
 
On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 04:05:00 -0700, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:

>Let's just say it's extremely rare (like never), to see one of these
>commute bikes out at night using only the dynamo lights.


Not true here in NYC. Most here commute with no front light at all. I use a
dynamo light. We don't need more. All streets have street lights.

Don <www.donwiss.com/joyrides> (e-mail link at page bottom).
 
A Muzi wrote:
>
> Bianchi also has an internal gear bike with the wrong ends and a
> tensioner for 2008. Whatever for? Why, 'urban bike' with disc brake of
> course.
> O tempora, O mores.


I see, I guess. That seems like a reason to use sliding dropouts
(with caliper tabs), not vertical ones.

One of the best things about using a gearhub IMO is a tidy, trouble-
free chainline with no chain dumping and no great-balls-o'-filth
pulleys.

Chalo
 
Don Wiss wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 04:05:00 -0700, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Let's just say it's extremely rare (like never), to see one of these
>> commute bikes out at night using only the dynamo lights.

>
> Not true here in NYC. Most here commute with no front light at all. I use a
> dynamo light. We don't need more. All streets have street lights.
>
> Don <www.donwiss.com/joyrides> (e-mail link at page bottom).


That's true, on well lit streets like in NYC you can get by with
whatever keeps you legal. Around here there are quite a few Breezer's
around but the commutes are such that everyone puts better lights on them.
 
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 14:55:57 -0700, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:

>Don Wiss wrote:
>> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 04:05:00 -0700, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Let's just say it's extremely rare (like never), to see one of these
>>> commute bikes out at night using only the dynamo lights.

>>
>> Not true here in NYC. Most here commute with no front light at all. I use a
>> dynamo light. We don't need more. All streets have street lights.


>That's true, on well lit streets like in NYC you can get by with
>whatever keeps you legal. Around here there are quite a few Breezer's
>around but the commutes are such that everyone puts better lights on them.


Well, to be legal here one needs lights, but it is never enforced. So
headlights are rare. Blinkie tail lights are more common, but it is far
from universal.

To change the subject. In Europe (at least in The Netherlands) tail lights
can't blink. Is this technically also true in the US?

Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> writes:
>> At least it doesn't have slidy-outy coffee cup holders.

>
> You can make fun of cup holders all you want,


Thank you, I will. At least, the mechanised/motorized ones
that slide out like a CD player tray. I also like to make
fun of electric toothbrushes, electric backscratchers,
electric card shufflers, etc. But Western Civilization
really hit the skids with the advent of cable TV and handheld
remote controls, so people could watch such pap as infomercials
about auto-shifting bicycles.

I /won't/ make fun of no-draft windows on cars, nor
manual chokes. Those relics were actually practical.

> but people sometimes decide
> with $23k car to buy based on how many cupholders it has.


They're nutz. We're all nutz. I'm inclined to buy the
brand that has a picture of a lion or tiger or other
feline on the packaging. How I sorely miss Standard Lager[*]!
How I luv Tiger Sauce[tm]. How I'm now considering doing
a run to the tobacconist's for a tin of Panter cigarellos,
and maybe pick up a bottle of Chat Noir (both of which go
quite well after a lasagna feeding frenzy.)

The art of marketing is to circumvent peoples' sensibleness
and appeal instead to their base instincts. The art of being
a consumer is to (try to) remain sensible. Marketing/consuming
is such an adversarial relationship. And there're the business
folks like yourself -- clowns to the left of you, jokers to the
right ... stuck in the middle of it. You have my utmost respect
and my deepest condolences. Reconciling marketeering and consuming
must be the most demanding art of all.

> The bike industry
> could do far worse than incorporate the means to easily carry your Starbucks
> or Peets coffee back home.


It's called a Thermos[tm]. They've been around awhile ;-)
There're probably electrified/mechanised/motorized versions now.


cheers,
Tom

[*] That stuff makes the best redeyes.

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
 
On Sep 29, 2:13 pm, "Gooserider" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I'm sure Frank Krygowski will chime in---but more lumens are better.


Well, I don't want to disappoint you! ;-)

But "more lumens are better" is a much too simplistic way of
evaluating a headlight. Where you put those lumens is at least as
important. I learned that after a friend bought a fairly expensive
rechargeable halogen headlight set that was nowhere near as useful as
my "nothing special" generator set.

Others have talked of riding Paris-Brest-Paris using their SON/Lumotec
sets and having the "rechargeable" brigade ride behind them, because
they could see better by the SON's light.

> The only case in which
> dynamo lights would be superior, in my mind, is touring. Otherwise, a good
> LED rechargeable system is going to give you more light. Now, if I was
> touring, or going to be places without access to electricity for long
> stretches, then I'd run the dynamo.


I agree, I wouldn't tour without a dynamo light. (I made that mistake
once or twice, and won't repeat it.) But for me, the dynamo is
absolutely the most practical electricity source for a
transportational bike like those being discussed.

Would you really put up a rechargeable headlight system in any other
transportation vehicle? "Sorry, honey, we'll have to walk home from
the movie. I forgot to recharge my car's headlights."

- Frank Krygowski
 
On 2007-09-29, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote:

> To change the subject. In Europe (at least in The Netherlands) tail lights
> can't blink. Is this technically also true in the US?


It varies from state to state. In my neck of the woods a blinking tail
light is illegal, but I've never heard of it being enforced.
 
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007, [email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote:

>Thank you, I will. At least, the mechanised/motorized ones
>that slide out like a CD player tray. I also like to make
>fun of electric toothbrushes, electric backscratchers,
>electric card shufflers, etc.


Actually electric toothbrushes can be useful as they generally will do a
better job then you can do by hand. One thing that is useless, like the
other two you list, is electric can openers. And then maybe electric
knives, though I've never used one.

Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).