Civil Unrest in France, What Gives?

[limerickman]

Interesting that YOUR country tracks numbers concerning ones religion..The U.S. government does not collect information on the religious beliefs of U.S. citizens and other residents...not through the census, or in household surveys, or on immigration forms....

Our goverment doesn't TRACK numbers concerning religion.

People have the choice of whether or not to respond to the question of their religius affiliation on the demographic survey.
If they chose to do so, they do.
If they don't, they don't.

 

[ptlwp]

wanst morrison a drugged up hippie that couldnt write worth a ****?

why in gods name would you want to visit his stinking grave?

He's hot, he's an icon, and he died young.....leaving the crowd asking for more.....

 

[Cannibal2]

Our goverment doesn't TRACK numbers concerning religion.

People have the choice of whether or not to respond to the question of their religius affiliation on the demographic survey.
If they chose to do so, they do.
If they don't, they don't.

Ok...So, your data is flawed and you can't compare data from various regions because the collection of this information is based upon one volunteering it...Ok I get it...it's like saying my country has more "natural blondes" than yours...but how can you substantiate that statement it????


So, you may retract your previous assertion...

 

[Chance3290]

I cannot tell you how many of those immigrants are working.
Quite frankly I don't care how many of them are working either.

Unlike your country - we have had budget surplus's for the past 8 years.
Tax take is up, year on year and our government provide all of the social
safety nets possible.
I'm not saying that this place is perfect but people here are prepared to
give others a chance.

I have no difficulty with the redistribution of wealth.
In fact, i respectfully suggest that if wealth was more evenly distributed this world would be a safer place than it is now.

If people there are prepared to give others a chance, why are there reports of violence against immigrants?
If you don't care about how many immigrants are working, then you shouldn't have a problem with millions more flooding into your country, rioting when they are not GIVEN jobs, and burning Ireland.
Right now the french government is most probably trying find out how all this happened. The french people already know and have known for years.
The french government, like the aforementioned people on this forum, seem to be good at pointing out the problems in other parts of the world, whilst ignoring (or denying) problems in their own backyard.

You may not care how many people are working, and contributing to the good of the whole, in Ireland, but I care about workers and non-workers in the US.
The US has many problems. A large problem is the GIVENS. They are given things from a young age. They are GIVEN public housing, public health, public education. Then, when they are old enough to go to work, they decline and are GIVEN welfare. And when they are not GIVEN something, they revolt. And whose fault is this? The fault lies with the government that has allowed this behavior, and expects the majority to work hard and pay taxes to pay for the social programs that allows the GIVENS to do nothing.
So Thank GOD for the illegal aliens that flood the US from south of the border. They do the work that the GIVENS don't want to do.

And 'redistribution of wealth' is a silly concept that has never and will never work.
Billions have been spent in Africa trying to eliminate famine and AIDS. And to what end? Might as well as used the money to built tennis courts in the desert.
Change will only come with redistribution of power and education.

 

[ptlwp]

OMH,

Never been keen on the Reg Grundies my-self. I guess you could say either I am a born commando or a true swinger.

Personally I've never been concerned about language either as it usually only takes me a day or two to understand enough of the local language to get by.

With regard to the Francoise; I have noticed that they take exception to others speaking their own native language. In Paris, they even take exception to those who attempt to speak French and don't do a very good job of it.

Out of Paris they find it amusing that you try and are not so seriously affronted by poor attempts, but still look down their noses at you. I find this very interesting since they still seem want you to spend their money with them.

Seemingly, there are two kinds of customers, but only one type of money!

Still we should not forget that they had a substantial portion of their population that were willing to co-operate with ******.

KInd regards,

Thanks for pointing out that not every Frenchmen was a partisan and not every German was a Nazi. Not to mention, the fuhrer??? fukwit, was an Austrian, not a German......but I don't like beer, except an occasional Michelob lite to chase a bit of Stoli and bratwurst leaves me cold. The lederhosen are the ugliest and funniest things I have ever seen. IMO Germans have the class of "a New Years Day parade".......

now the French, we got a gift certificate to eat at a very elite French restaurant last year, Le Bec Fin, Georges Perriers place....I guess French cuisine isn't my style, but my husband learned French in school and the waiter nearly cried with joy when he spoke such nice french!!!....don't even remember what I had.....I'd take Italian anytime, tira misu, music to my ears...

I have heard that the Germans eat 5 large meals a day with lots of desserts mit schlagg.....I've never been there and don't plan to go there ever...I just think that they need to be watched; they get a bit too uptite when the job situation goes bad............as though they are owed high paying jobs with security...Hah!!!!!

 

[ptlwp]

He's probably suffering from dementia at his age.

He is obviously a lot sharper than you seem to be, dear.

OMH

 

[ptlwp]

Merci !

JBG - any prediction for the Eng V Aus game on Saturday (rugby union) ?

How bout them Eagles? How 'bout that T.O. I feel rather sorry for him. Like a child who had a hissy fit and now, admitting the errors of his ways, is still not forgiven.....probably because his ways won't change, as a tiger's stripes don't change.

 

[Chance3290]

With all due respect you know **** all about it.

To be honest with you the Rioting thing does seem to happen in very poor areas. Brixton, LA, Paris, little different really. As for why they are poor, it certainly isn't always because they are lazy, quite the reverse is true in my experience.

Right Whingers love to do their sound bite hatchet jobs, but here in the real world that just ain't enough to sort out the problem. Sound bites and sound bite driven policy (eg: "Crack Down") just inflames the situation and spreads resentment. What is *really* needed is a long term sustained effort to identify and address the needs of the community, it doesn't even necessarily have to be spectacular, just practical stuff like good *affordable* housing, work, security and food on the table.

Please don't tell me that you believe the french government is "Right Whingers."
Funny thou, how even the most liberal governments seem to rely on right wing tactics (eg: "Crack Down") when the peasants revolt.

You are correct about long-term vs short-term solutions. I think the problem for most governments is that they look for 'short-long term solutions. They think of "When this will keep THEM quiet until we're out of office." Type solutions. This only prolongs the inevitable.

 

[limerickman]

If people there are prepared to give others a chance, why are there reports of violence against immigrants?
.

Reports of violence are in France - and the violence has nothing to do with religion.

I live approx 700 miles west of France in a place called Ireland.

If you don't care about how many immigrants are working, then you shouldn't have a problem with millions more flooding into your country, rioting when they are not GIVEN jobs, and burning Ireland.
.

.......but people aren't rioting - despite the 10 fold increase in emigration in to this country.

Right now the french government is most probably trying find out how all this happened. The french people already know and have known for years.
The french government, like the aforementioned people on this forum, seem to be good at pointing out the problems in other parts of the world, whilst ignoring (or denying) problems in their own backyard.

Really ?
denying that there have been problems in working class areas in France ?

No they haven't - and to suggest otherwise is rubbish.

You may not care how many people are working, and contributing to the good of the whole, in Ireland, but I care about workers and non-workers in the US.
The US has many problems.

I don't care because I am prepared to pay my taxes.
I am fortunate - I earn lots of money and I have no diffuclty with paying taxes. None whatsoever.

The US has many problems. A large problem is the GIVENS. They are given things from a young age. They are GIVEN public housing, public health, public education. Then, when they are old enough to go to work, they decline and are GIVEN welfare. And when they are not GIVEN something, they revolt. And whose fault is this? The fault lies with the government that has allowed this behavior, and expects the majority to work hard and pay taxes to pay for the social programs that allows the GIVENS to do nothing.
So Thank GOD for the illegal aliens that flood the US from south of the border. They do the work that the GIVENS don't want to do.

Seems your country does have a lot of problems : I would wager that expenditure on military hardware far outstrips any amounts that paid in social welfare to people who don't work over there.
sure aren't they all cut off social welfare after six months anyhow ?
So how come your country's finances are in the **** ?
Hmm ?
Your country's problems is that the rich don't pay tax and any tax taken is spent on the military and unwinnable wars and such like.

And 'redistribution of wealth' is a silly concept that has never and will never work.
Billions have been spent in Africa trying to eliminate famine and AIDS. And to what end? Might as well as used the money to built tennis courts in the desert.
Change will only come with redistribution of power and education.

really ?
Your country did pretty well out of Africa.
And now you codemn Africa ?

 

[ptlwp]

If the persons causing the riots and and trouble; in the USA, they would be jailed, tried and a judge or jury of their peers would decide what would happen to them under the laws of the land.

Why don't the French simply arrest these folk, try them and sentence them? If they are violating immigration laws, or sedition laws, destruction of property, disorderly behavior, a felony, a misdemeanor or even, malicious mischief, surely they have broken the law and should be treated as one would be treated if they had broken the law, each and every one of them and sentenced accordingly...no talk of ethnic cleansing or such mass emmigration is really needed, I don't think.

Simply trying these people for their transgressions should be implemented, first of all. Then, a more broad answer to the problem addressed.

First, the gendarmes should be arresting folk....it would seem to me.

In the 1960's here during all the goings on with Viet Nam and the Democratic Convention, surely, mass arrests were made and everyone got their day in court.......even Abbie Hoffman, (rip), The Black Panthers, The Symbionese Liberation Army, the Chicago Seven and all sorts of maniacal groups such as Charles Manson Family......and his harem of horrorific harlots.



OMHippie

 

[Carrera]

"Britain is full, and enough refugees of one sort or another are still arriving without us opening our arms in welcome to those now setting fire to buildings and cars in France."

I think you are going to be in for a shock. If there is a right-wing reaction in France and Jean-Marie Le Penn gains ground, the U.K. will be taking in many thousands of immigrants from France. Many of these folks do indeed want to come to the U.K. since we are the most popular destination for most immigrants.

The French can be pragmatic, when they aren't being irrational. They dealt with Saddam who ran the most secular country in the Middle East. He kept the Muslims under very strict control.
France has half the population density of Britain, so they can take more than we can. Britain is full, and enough refugees of one sort or another are still arriving without us opening our arms in welcome to those now setting fire to buildings and cars in France.

 

[Chance3290]

If the persons causing the riots and and trouble; in the USA, they would be jailed, tried and a judge or jury of their peers would decide what would happen to them under the laws of the land.

Why don't the French simply arrest these folk, try them and sentence them? If they are violating immigration laws, or sedition laws, destruction of property, disorderly behavior, a felony, a misdemeanor or even, malicious mischief, surely they have broken the law and should be treated as one would be treated if they had broken the law, each and every one of them and sentenced accordingly...no talk of ethnic cleansing or such mass emmigration is really needed, I don't think.

Simply trying these people for their transgressions should be implemented, first of all. Then, a more broad answer to the problem addressed.

First, the gendarmes should be arresting folk....it would seem to me.

In the 1960's here during all the goings on with Viet Nam and the Democratic Convention, surely, mass arrests were made and everyone got their day in court.......even Abbie Hoffman, (rip), The Black Panthers, The Symbionese Liberation Army, the Chicago Seven and all sorts of maniacal groups such as Charles Manson Family......and his harem of horrorific harlots.


OMHippie

HHRUMPHH! Well said.

What did you think of TO's apolgy? Maybe he should be sat down for a T.O. as a child would.

 

[Carrera]

The following poem was published not too long ago in the Daily Mail and was criticized for taking too simpllistic a view of a "more complex situation."
I have to admit is a bit of a giggle, especially in view of the fact a friend of mind received a misdirected giro cheque for over 2000 pounds to cover one month!
I come for visit, get treated regal,
So I stay, who care I illegal?
I cross border, poor and broke,
Take bus, see employment folk,
Nice man treat me good in there,
Say I need to see welfare.
Welfare say, 'You come no more,
We send plenty cash right to your door.'
Welfare cheques, they make you wealthy,
NHS, it keeps you healthy!
By and by, I got plenty money,
Thanks to you, British dummy.
Write to friends in motherland,
Tell them come as fast as you can.
They come in rags on the back of trucks,
I buy big house with welfare bucks.
They come here, we live together,
More welfare cheques, it gets better
Fourteen families they moving in,
But neighbour's patience wearing thin.
Kids need dentist? Wife need pills?
We get free! We got no bills! Britishman crazy!
He pay all year, To keep us illegals in comfort here.
We think UK is very good place!
Much too good for the British race.
If they don't like us, they can go.There's lots of room elsewhere you know

Scotland, Ireland, and Wales have very small Muslim populations, these countries need to expand their horizons and allow the muslim culture to inter-mingle with their own. It doesn't matter that Britain is full. Britain is a nation of 'HAVES' and these poor, unfortunate people of 'have nots.' You MUST allow tens of thousands more in and allow their culture and beliefs to supercede the current laws of the nation. And let's not forget Canada. I understand that they have a territory or two that have a total population of 36 people. Will the Canadian government open their doors and borders to these poor unfortunates? Many Muslims are all ready using the lack Canadian immigration laws to enter the US through Canada. Let's let them stay in Quebec and Ottawa. Heck, you can easily put 3-4 million in the Yukon alone.

For those of you that have criticized US immigration policies, now is the time to put your money, your countries, your way of life, where your mouth is.

 

[darkboong]

Please don't tell me that you believe the french government is "Right Whingers."
Funny thou, how even the most liberal governments seem to rely on right wing tactics (eg: "Crack Down") when the peasants revolt.

That would make them Right Whingers then, wouldn't it ?

 

[Chance3290]

I don't care because I am prepared to pay my taxes.
I am fortunate - I earn lots of money and I have no diffuclty with paying taxes. None whatsoever.

Your country did pretty well out of Africa.
And now you codemn Africa ?

Its good to know that all the people Ireland, no matter what their race, creed or religion, all these people live in peace and harmony.
You earn lots of money, do you 'redistribute' most of it to those who don't have it and are not willing to work for it?
No, I think you are among the elite of the world. People that don't have to worry about money. But, since most of us do worry, I don't like my money going to people who don't want to work for it.
And I agree about spending too much money on military. I still think about that whole WWII thing. How much money was wasted during that time?Germany never invaded the US. What business was any of that of ours?

And yes, I condemn Africa. Those with power have, for decades+ used and abused their power by witholding money, food, medical aide, from millions of people who later died.
And while you can blame the US and UK for not acting 'quick enough' you must blame those in power, those who have done these things to their own people.

 

[ptlwp]

My grandparents came from Russia, at the turn of the last century, walking through Europe via horse and wagon with 6 children in tow,and getting on a boat, steerage, in Marseille France to New York.

They were all too glad to be working; even in a shitty, backbreaking sweatshop, than be in Russia under the Czar or otherwise.

They didn't riot, bust things up, set cities afire, break other people's belongings nor act like uncivilized crazies.

They worked their asses off; made things better for their children and assimilated, learned the language and dressed like the rest of the people around them.
If they had stayed in a ghetto, speaking Yiddish and, frothing at the mouth at the inequities of the USA, you would have exactly what you have with folks who can and will assimilate versus those who will not and perhaps never will fit in with the hoi poloi.

If they want to assimilate, fine. If they don't they really ought to think about moving back to their respective countries of origin and be happy for their freedom to live the way that they want to live. Life is a two way street, you cannot ever have it both ways......neither can the Islam/Muslim faction...it's the sad truth, but there you are.

 

[James Bruce Gil]

Yes, but it seems that most of them are dead now...

Wurm,

Those active in collaboration at the time are either dead or in their 80's and 90's I agree, but you are assuming that their children and grandchildren don't think along similar lines.

Just take some time to visit a few Museums in France and look at the tone of the commentary on the exhibits. You may develop a different view than you currently hold.

They are very nationalistic people and discount other cultures quite vehemently from my experience.

Kind regards,

 

[James Bruce Gil]

wanst morrison a drugged up hippie that couldnt write worth a ****?

why in gods name would you want to visit his stinking grave?

MP,

And what's wrong with being a drugged up hippie? Most of us who lived in the sixties appreciated the occasional smoke and a trip or two; And the time of free love? Well it was magnificent!!

What's wrong with you young fellows? Frustrated or something? Drop out and tune in.

Kind regards,

 

[Wurm]

What's wrong with you young fellows? Frustrated or something? Drop out and tune in.

Actually, it could be the young fellows' frustration at not being able to make enough money no matter how hard they work, what with all of the excellent economic policies of the "conservatives" lately. Maybe a few pain-killers a la Rush L. are in order?

I come for visit, get treated regal,...

If they don't like us, they can go.There's lots of room elsewhere you know

Spoken like a true Right-Whinger.

 

[James Bruce Gil]

Actually, it could be the young fellows' frustration at not being able to make enough money no matter how hard they work, what with all of the excellent economic policies of the "conservatives" lately. Maybe a few pain-killers a la Rush L. are in order?

.

Wurm,

What you need is your own plant. Its a big frustration that 5 or 6 cones won't solve.

As for hard working; I never was able to work soft, though I must admit I tried more than once.

Kind regards,