Civil Unrest in France, What Gives?



James Bruce Gil

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ptlwp said:
I didn't vote for Eisenhower (too young), nor Kennedy, too young, and I didn't vote for either of the Bushes. If everyone else in this country runs scared "domino theory", "its them or us" "axis of evil", what can I say? That half the people in this country are a**h****.....and that about says it.

After all Republicans have lots of friends in the industrial war machine complex to have any need to NOT start a war, now do they?

Petals,

There are always war profiteers. I don't think any political party could say that they were as pure as the driven snow in relation to this one. Any industrialist will happily produce components for war purposes, once they realise that many of the machine tools they have for general manufacturing can equally be used to make weapons and they can charge a whole lot more for them.

The other thing about components for weapons is that there is of course a huge profit in maintaining and updating the components with very little scrutiny from the military forces who are otherwise focussed. Large figures can be earned or even defrauded with very little chance of ever being caught out. Its a real gravy train for those who are in it.

Kind regards,
 

James Bruce Gil

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ptlwp said:
If America didn't come to the aid Europe and Asia, I can assure you that you'd (anyone who would have survived), would be eating a lot of bratwurst or sushi!!!!

How can you tell who is in the French Army? They are the ones who are standing with hands up!!!

eh, rather like that one....

Petals,

Over this way it would probably be sushi. Mind you I like both Bratwurst and sushi.

So far as the French Army goes; In the Pacific they seem to be standing over the islanders so that France can dig up any available mineral resource and test weapons away from France or committing terrorist acts against friendly countries like New Zealand.

Kind regards,
 

Carrera

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Communism is a more advanced social order than capitalism. Of that I have no doubt at all. Both Einstein and Plato idealised communism. Tolstoy probably derived his communist thought from Plato and Marx and Engels borrowed accordingly.
However, communism needed reform and needed to adapt to the modern world. But before you get too carried away by how great capitalism is supposed to be, consider:
(1) Virtually all war is motivated by capitalist greed for material gain. The Iraq war plunged the U.S. into a diplomatic crisis as a result of the greed of a few corrupt leaders who led their people down the garden path. Oil and greed for oil and money was the reason behind it all.
(2) Crime is linked to capitalism. Crime is what you get when the average person is exposed to an ideology of advertising yet may not have the means to be "a success". The entire prison population in the U.S. exists on a massive scale due to the lower welfare of the U.S. population coupled with the heavy advertising and ethos of material gain.
(3) Communism and socialism is based on efficiency and organisation. If I invited all you guys to go on a hike with me in the taiga, the best way to preserve harmony and co-operation would be to share our resources equally. The alternative would be to fight and squabble who gets most.
So, in short, communism needed reforming. It is possibly the only alternative to Christian/Islamic religious extremism within the U.S. and Arab World.



wolfix said:
To desire a system anything like China's is not wanting the best for the people. The human rights people will tell you that.
The basic ideology of socialism/communism conflicts heavily with capitolism....
Russia's sports programs were legalized slavery. There is thought out there that Russia would have to return every medal they ever won if they didn't cheat.
The people had to be content. Otherwise they faced Siberia of the KBG.. Forced contentment is not a good place to be.

It is impossible for communism and capitolism to run side by side. It goes against the makeup of man. In capitolism, every man has a shot. In communism, only the few have a chance at a good life.
In America there is a myth going on about our medical health system. They say we need a national health care system. There already is. If you are poor, there are safety nets in place that would make the middle class green with envy. The poor in America have faster and more efficeint health care then the Canadian's do with their 'Free" health care. Of course it is not free..... They just pay taxes so high out of their income. They "pre-pay" a larger ratio of income then Americans do..... Someone needs to explain the concept of the "free system' to me.
 

Colorado Ryder

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wolfix said:
But the talking heads in our government in the late 30's were concerned with Russia. They knew where all this was headed. America was not all that concerned with Poland, Austria, and Czechoslovaki. The threat of Russia was what concerned America.
In the 30's the US was concerned with Japanese expansion in Asia. Which is why the US put an embargo on oil and scrap iron exports to Japan. The embargo is what led Japan to believe that they had to defeat the US in order to secure adequate resources. Stevebaby's argument that the Pacific war was over East Indian oil is pure rubbish. The US produced all of its own oil supply in the 1940's.
Stevebaby must be reading a different history book. The one that leaves out Nanking, the enslavement of Korea, the invasion of Manchuria.
 

wolfix

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Carrera said:
(3) Communism and socialism is based on efficiency and organisation. If I invited all you guys to go on a hike with me in the taiga, the best way to preserve harmony and co-operation would be to share our resources equally. The alternative would be to fight and squabble who gets most.
So, in short, communism needed reforming. It is possibly the only alternative to Christian/Islamic religious extremism within the U.S. and Arab World.
Lets examine this ...... Let's take that communistic hike. And for the fun of it, lets hike the Ho Ching Ming Trail. Ok, so we share. Sounds great. Human nature is the base problem with communism. I want more then you. And maybe I should get more then you because I am larger and I carry a bigger pack ..... So I take more. Then we come to a fork in the trail ...... I want to go this way. You want to go that way. The rest of the group do not know which way to go. If they go with capitolistic me , they know that once they get to the end, they can have the things they want if they work har enough. If they go with you and your cat, they know that when they get to the end, they will have to go to work , and do more work then their fair share, because of the 2 guys in the back who insist on more Snickers bars that will not pull their own weight.

I offer them rewards for their motivation. You offer them ...What? The warm fuzzy feeling of helping the unmotivated?

Communism punishes the motivated individuals. And the truth is, the motivated individuals are the ones who create a better society.

Of course I have noticed that communism is usually enforced with a large military.

"Virtually all war is motivated by capitalist greed for material gain." When the Russian tanks rolled over Afghanistan in the late 70's it was because 2 capitolistic countries were going at it?

Our prisons are full because of the lack of proper values. The welfare system of this country is what has caused the defeatism of individuals. And it is this defeatism that has filled the prisons. Our system has rewarded bad behavior since the mid 60's.

Carrera. .... I think I have seen you post the fact you have a nice bike. Unless you are a trust fund baby, you were motivated to work for it.
Would you want to share it??? Would you want to let everyone ride it?
And you have a education and have studied in many places. {I think I have that right.} Somewhere along the way you worked extra hard for these privledges. Why?
The key to social justice is to provide jobs for everyone.
 

Colorado Ryder

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Carrera said:
(1) Virtually all war is motivated by capitalist greed for material gain. The Iraq war plunged the U.S. into a diplomatic crisis as a result of the greed of a few corrupt leaders who led their people down the garden path. Oil and greed for oil and money was the reason behind it all.
(2) Crime is linked to capitalism. Crime is what you get when the average person is exposed to an ideology of advertising yet may not have the means to be "a success". The entire prison population in the U.S. exists on a massive scale due to the lower welfare of the U.S. population coupled with the heavy advertising and ethos of material gain.
Pol Pot and his killing fields! ****** and his unique brand of socialism. Stalin and his purges. Mao and his gang of four. What was that about war and crime being linked to capitalism?
 

limerickman

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Jan 5, 2004
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Carrera said:
Communism is a more advanced social order than capitalism. Of that I have no doubt at all. Both Einstein and Plato idealised communism. Tolstoy probably derived his communist thought from Plato and Marx and Engels borrowed accordingly.
However, communism needed reform and needed to adapt to the modern world. But before you get too carried away by how great capitalism is supposed to be, consider:
(1) Virtually all war is motivated by capitalist greed for material gain. The Iraq war plunged the U.S. into a diplomatic crisis as a result of the greed of a few corrupt leaders who led their people down the garden path. Oil and greed for oil and money was the reason behind it all.
(2) Crime is linked to capitalism. Crime is what you get when the average person is exposed to an ideology of advertising yet may not have the means to be "a success". The entire prison population in the U.S. exists on a massive scale due to the lower welfare of the U.S. population coupled with the heavy advertising and ethos of material gain.
(3) Communism and socialism is based on efficiency and organisation. If I invited all you guys to go on a hike with me in the taiga, the best way to preserve harmony and co-operation would be to share our resources equally. The alternative would be to fight and squabble who gets most.
So, in short, communism needed reforming. It is possibly the only alternative to Christian/Islamic religious extremism within the U.S. and Arab World.


Communism can't possible work, carrera because of the human element.
Look at the old Soviet setup, it became totalitarian essentially.

Democracy isn't perfect but I know which system I prefer to live under.
 

jhuskey

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Oct 6, 2003
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limerickman said:
Communism can't possible work, carrera because of the human element.
Look at the old Soviet setup, it became totalitarian essentially.

Democracy isn't perfect but I know which system I prefer to live under.


Lim,I believe it can work just as soon as we humans repress all of our emotions like the ficticious Vulcans from Star Trek.
Until then capitalism works for me. I for one, resent the fact that anyone out there thinks that I should strive and work for a piece of the pie and then give half to someone that makes little effort,and I guess that is part of it.
My measure of greed.
 

James Bruce Gil

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jhuskey said:
Lim,I believe it can work just as soon as we humans repress all of our emotions like the ficticious Vulcans from Star Trek.
Until then capitalism works for me. I for one, resent the fact that anyone out there thinks that I should strive and work for a piece of the pie and then give half to someone that makes little effort,and I guess that is part of it.
My measure of greed.

Huskey,

And all this time I had presumed there would be beer, men &/or women and song for all the good citizens of St Sara d'Beer's utopian society. What ever happened to that wowser tax that was going to bankroll it?

It was afterall to be a bold social experiment, where every non-wowser was to have had every thing they ever wanted, funded by a tax on wowsers that wanted none of it, but needed a group to criticise and be disgusted by.

The non-wowser citizens would have all been so wrapped in partaking that they wouldn't have given even a passing thought to the fact that they were taking half from the wowsers. The wowsers themselves would have been so happy to have another group to look down upon, criticise and condemn.

You've not turned into a wowser, Huskey, surely not.

Kind regards,
 

Dondare

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Oct 13, 2005
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jhuskey said:
Lim,I believe it can work just as soon as we humans repress all of our emotions like the ficticious Vulcans from Star Trek.
Until then capitalism works for me. I for one, resent the fact that anyone out there thinks that I should strive and work for a piece of the pie and then give half to someone that makes little effort,and I guess that is part of it.
My measure of greed.
The Vulcans aren't fictitious.
 

limerickman

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Jan 5, 2004
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jhuskey said:
Lim,I believe it can work just as soon as we humans repress all of our emotions like the ficticious Vulcans from Star Trek.
Until then capitalism works for me. I for one, resent the fact that anyone out there thinks that I should strive and work for a piece of the pie and then give half to someone that makes little effort,and I guess that is part of it.
My measure of greed.

That's where we differ, JH.

I earn more than enough money - I have no difficulty paying taxes.
In fact I believe it is the duty of the State to redistribute wealth from the
"haves" to the "have nots".

But that's why you're over there and I'm over here : I think the European model is more fair.

On principle what you explained above is just one reason why i would never contemplate living in your country (and I'm not attempting to flame here).
 

James Bruce Gil

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limerickman said:
That's where we differ, JH.

I earn more than enough money - I have no difficulty paying taxes.
In fact I believe it is the duty of the State to redistribute wealth from the
"haves" to the "have nots".

But that's why you're over there and I'm over here : I think the European model is more fair.

On principle what you explained above is just one reason why i would never contemplate living in your country (and I'm not attempting to flame here).

Limerick,

I think you may have misinterpreted what Huskey was saying.

Like you, I believe that it is all of our responsibility to care for the less fortunate families, by support through a social security system. I am sure Huskey believes the same. It is just to the extent to which he should have to contribute to that support.

Every western society has a system where the individual contributes to their capacity and is taxed on their income. A couple of years back, I had a substantial portion of income being taxed at 63 cents in the dollar. It was too much, so I simply reduced my working time so that I did not exceed that threshold for 48% tax.

The communist countries have nearly all discovered that eventually taxation can get to the stage where all incentive is lost by those with the greater capacity to contribute. When this occurs it is just a matter of time before the economic downward spiral starts for obvious reasons.

Like Huskey, I don't believe I should bust my gut so that I can give more than half of it to a government to squander on weapons for some far away war.

Kind regards
 

jhuskey

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James Bruce Gil said:
Limerick,

I think you may have misinterpreted what Huskey was saying.

Like you, I believe that it is all of our responsibility to care for the less fortunate families, by support through a social security system. I am sure Huskey believes the same. It is just to the extent to which he should have to contribute to that support.

Every western society has a system where the individual contributes to their capacity and is taxed on their income. A couple of years back, I had a substantial portion of income being taxed at 63 cents in the dollar. It was too much, so I simply reduced my working time so that I did not exceed that threshold for 48% tax.

The communist countries have nearly all discovered that eventually taxation can get to the stage where all incentive is lost by those with the greater capacity to contribute. When this occurs it is just a matter of time before the economic downward spiral starts for obvious reasons.

Like Huskey, I don't believe I should bust my gut so that I can give more than half of it to a government to squander on weapons for some far away war.

Kind regards

Precisely,when the non-producers out consume the producers the society fails.
You cannot break the backs of the productive else they will lay down and give up.
It's not fair and sort of like a population moving in and claiming land they didn't earn,or is that different?
 

James Bruce Gil

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jhuskey said:
It's not fair and sort of like a population moving in and claiming land they didn't earn,or is that different?

Huskey,

The plight of displaced indigenous folk around the world is a different issue to the riots in France. Ultimately though I coincede there are similarities.

I think our European colleagues would concede that there are major problems where they have claimed sovereignty over lands that were already the traditional land of others. Zimbabwe (Rhodesia) is a case in point.

Kind regards,
 

stevebaby

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jhuskey said:
Precisely,when the non-producers out consume the producers the society fails.
You cannot break the backs of the productive else they will lay down and give up.
It's not fair and sort of like a population moving in and claiming land they didn't earn,or is that different?
Isn't that how the us came into existence?
:confused:
 

stevebaby

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wolfix said:
Canada declared war a year before America was dragged into WW2. It took aggressive acts from others before America became involved.
The people that control the capitol in every country are the ones with the power. That is not news.
100 + wars?? Give me 20.....
Yes, we are those kind of people. Yet , our borders are being run over by people trying to get in, not out.
And we get to vote and go to forums such as this with out fear of anyone.
1. Current war in iraq
2.Current war in afghanistan
3.Invasion of haiti,2004
4.Kosovo,1999
5.Sudan,1998
6.Afghanistan,1998
7.Bosnia,herzgovina,1995
8.Haiti,1994
9.Somalia,1993-1995
10.Persian gulf war,1990-1991
11.panama,1989
12.Honduras,1988
13.Iraq,1987-1988
14.Libya,1986
15.Grenada,1983
16.Lebanon,1982-1984
17.Khmer rouge,1975
18.Vietnam,1964=1975
19.Dominican republic,1965
20.Korea,1950-1953
21.WWll
22.Russia,1918-1919
23.Cuba,1906-1909
24.WWll
25.Dominican republic,1916-1924
26.Haiti,1915-1934
27.Phillipines,1899-1913
28.Panama,1903
29.China,1900
30.Mexico,1914





:p