Civil Unrest in France, What Gives?



davidmc

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Jun 23, 2004
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FredC said:
I told you that your posts were ****.
Have I also strayed from my once illustrious posts. I seem to be taking a considerable amt. flak for sticking up for SOME, very few; of my country's foreign policy decisions. And no, I'm not a "Bushie" ;) Nationalism plays a part in all of our postings whether we realize it or not. Some citizens however dislike their home country entirely. I have a beef w/ my country's practices but I also hold some of these practices in some degree of esteem. Bruce you might want to counsel PTWXYZ to clean up her sig. as she seems to be parroting your "nicey-nice" sig :rolleyes:
 

Billsworld

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Sep 6, 2005
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James Bruce Gil said:
BW,

The .com boom was a situation where people were investing real money in virtual assets and they got burned because of it. Many of those companies had at that stage never turned in a profit but people didn't seem to care.

There is a .com revival underway just now, but I expect it to be more realistic and investors will be a lot more conservative this time around.

Kind regards,
The comparison I was trying(poorly) to make was that the deficit spending produces an artificial positive result. Kind of like investing real money in virtual assets:) I dont believe that govt can create a single job. They pull/seize money from the private sector(that can create jobs) and spend it on stuff that makes them look good . Have a good day BW
 

davidmc

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Jun 23, 2004
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Billsworld said:
The comparison I was trying(poorly) to make was that the deficit spending produces an artificial positive result. Kind of like investing real money in virtual assets:) I dont believe that govt can create a single job. They pull/seize money from the private sector(that can create jobs) and spend it on stuff that makes them look good . Have a good day BW
I share FredC's derision w/ all of the "kind regards" & "have a nice day". Makes me want to retch :)
 

darkboong

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Mar 2, 2004
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James Bruce Gil said:
There is a .com revival underway just now, but I expect it to be more realistic and investors will be a lot more conservative this time around.

Disagree. What happened is that in general the industy cut back heavily in investment in late 2000/early 2001, and they grossly over-reacted. The fallout of that has been lots of failures of IT projects and existing systems failing to cope with demand or simply degrading until they die (and often take the company with them).

What appears to be happening now is that the industry is tip-toeing up to a minimal plateau where they can maintain their existing systems and perform essential replacements. I don't think there will be another boom in the Western Hemisphere in forseeable future, although antipodeans might well see an Asia-Pacific boom (but remember you will be competing against Chinese and Indian IT workers).

The job situation is considerably healthier than it was in April 2001... In that month over 250,000 IT workers got canned globally, and that trend continued for quite some time. Lots of hire & fire. Now of course they're firing in the West and Hiring in the East. ;)
 

limerickman

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Jan 5, 2004
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Billsworld said:
The comparison I was trying(poorly) to make was that the deficit spending produces an artificial positive result. Kind of like investing real money in virtual assets:) I dont believe that govt can create a single job. They pull/seize money from the private sector(that can create jobs) and spend it on stuff that makes them look good . Have a good day BW


I watch the numbers coming out of America closely and it is apparent, at least to me, that what we are seeing is very dangerous.

Your country's economic deficit is at an all time high at present.
Even with the depreciation in your currency's value, you're still importing
approx $60 billion more than you export, each month.
Which means capital is effectively leaving the US and going abroad.
The rest of the world is not buying your products, as quickly as you're buying the rest of the worlds products.

In addition, the jobs numbers from the USA aren't great.
Unemployment seems to have settled at around 5% - the average since 2000
is approx 5.3%.
GDP has grown in the last few months.
This means that although people are spending money, that expenditure is not creating jobs in the American economy (otherwise the unemployment rate would be a lot lower).
 

stevebaby

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Jun 22, 2004
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Colorado Ryder said:
The Japanese had no intention of "buying" the oil. They intended to and did take the oil. The were "forced" to this action when the US put an embargo on oil exports to Japan.


The China Market in the 1930's? You have got to be kidding. 1930's China was rural and poor. There was no market. If the US was concerned about the "China market" why did the US wait till they were attacked to fight Japan? If the "China market" of the 1930's was so good the US would have responded to Japan's 1931 invasion.


What presence did the US have in China in the 1930's?


The pacific war wasn't fought over oil. It was fought over Japanese expansion. You know when they invaded China, Manchuria, Korea, Thailand, Burma, India, Indochina, Phillipines, Singapore, Indonesia, United States.


Exonerating Hirohito? The US basically dictated the surrender terms to the Japanese. What would have been the benefit of trying Hirohito for war crimes? He was basically a figurehead. The military really ran Japanese affairs.
To state otherwise would show a lack of understanding of Japanese society in the 1930's and 40's.


Maybe you should point out the US basically re-built Japan after the war. A war that the Japanese started.
The japanese were buying oil from the dutch until roosevelt put pressure on the dutch government not to sell.
If it's OK for the us to invade iraq to get their oil,why is it wrong for japan to do the same thing?
The people of china may have been poor compared to westerners,but there were billions of them.They were and are the biggest market in the worldand a source of cheap labour (then and now).
There are more ways to start a war than militarily.The us declared an economic war.Why would the us care about japanese expansion in asia.The japanese were no threat to the us mainland.If the us had no economic interest in china,why impose an embargo?
The us had a naval and marine presence in china.All the great powers did,since before the boxer rebellion.
The japanese invaded asia after britain had invaded india,burma,china and malaya,the french invaded vietnam,the dutch invaded the east indies and the us invaded the phillipines.How were the japanese any different?
The japanese did not invade the us.They attacked a naval base on a small group of islands that the us had itself invaded.Hirohito was the military leader of japan.He had full knowledge of all military actions and approved of them.If the emporor wasn't guilty,noone was.
The us did not rebuild japan after the war.They allowed japan to keep virtually everything that the japanese had looted from asia to provide the capital to rebuild.they didn't do it out of the goodness of their hearts.the japanese were in debt to us banks (morgan bank,dillon read and others) and had been since the tokyo earthquake of 1923.These banks had no way of recovering their investments if japan was not allowed to recover economically.
The japanese annexed korea in 1911.us marines invaded in1905.
 

stevebaby

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Jun 22, 2004
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limerickman said:
I watch the numbers coming out of America closely and it is apparent, at least to me, that what we are seeing is very dangerous.

Your country's economic deficit is at an all time high at present.
Even with the depreciation in your currency's value, you're still importing
approx $60 billion more than you export, each month.
Which means capital is effectively leaving the US and going abroad.
The rest of the world is not buying your products, as quickly as you're buying the rest of the worlds products.

In addition, the jobs numbers from the USA aren't great.
Unemployment seems to have settled at around 5% - the average since 2000
is approx 5.3%.
GDP has grown in the last few months.
This means that although people are spending money, that expenditure is not creating jobs in the American economy (otherwise the unemployment rate would be a lot lower).
I just tried to think of anything "made in america" that I own.The only thing I could think of is a Stanley handplane(made in 1920).That's not because I'm anti american.It's because american goods are poor value,overpriced and shoddy.Most of the consumer goods in my house were manufactured in asia.
How much does the us owe china for the war in iraq?
As Tony Soprano said "Sometimes it's more dangerous to be owed money than to owe it".
The real danger is to china.
:eek:
 

stevebaby

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Jun 22, 2004
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Billsworld said:
Do you remember the dot com boom...then bust. The debt that is rung up for Iraq, Katrina ,etc.. will eventually catch up to us. I believe that our economy moves in cycles. Bush came in during a down in that cycle. I would hope we might get an up tic by now.. The repubs are governing like rich kids with trust funds....The direction the US is heading is spend spend spend. Thats the plan....And I voted for the guy twice:) Govt buildings to bars you say??
Hafta laugh at the irony...The democrats have always been accused of being profligate spenders and clinton balanced the budget.The republicans claim to be financially responsible and they have incurred the most massive debt in history.
:D
 

stevebaby

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Jun 22, 2004
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darkboong said:
Disagree. What happened is that in general the industy cut back heavily in investment in late 2000/early 2001, and they grossly over-reacted. The fallout of that has been lots of failures of IT projects and existing systems failing to cope with demand or simply degrading until they die (and often take the company with them).

What appears to be happening now is that the industry is tip-toeing up to a minimal plateau where they can maintain their existing systems and perform essential replacements. I don't think there will be another boom in the Western Hemisphere in forseeable future, although antipodeans might well see an Asia-Pacific boom (but remember you will be competing against Chinese and Indian IT workers).

The job situation is considerably healthier than it was in April 2001... In that month over 250,000 IT workers got canned globally, and that trend continued for quite some time. Lots of hire & fire. Now of course they're firing in the West and Hiring in the East. ;)
The benefits of "free" trade!
:)
 

stevebaby

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Jun 22, 2004
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wolfix said:
Canada declared war a year before America was dragged into WW2. It took aggressive acts from others before America became involved.
The people that control the capitol in every country are the ones with the power. That is not news.
100 + wars?? Give me 20.....
Yes, we are those kind of people. Yet , our borders are being run over by people trying to get in, not out.
And we get to vote and go to forums such as this with out fear of anyone.
You will note that I have included an extra 10 wars.You can find the rest yourself at :http:/www.history.navy.mil/wars/foabroad.htm,Instances of Use of United States Forces Abroad,Ellen C. Collier,specialist in us Foreign policy,foreign affairs and national defense division, or United States Military Campaigns,Conflicts,Expeditions and Wars (http:freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com~vanhornfamily/military.htm) Larry Van Horn,us navy ret'd.
:)
 

stevebaby

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Jun 22, 2004
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Billsworld said:
Wow I am going to have to ponder that one for a while. Good thing I am on the trainer tonight, I would probably ride into the woods by accident .:)
I've been attacked by a tree.It leapt out in front of me and threw me off my mountain bike and dislocated my shoulder.
Plants : 1
Stevebaby : 0
:D :D :D :D
 

limerickman

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2004
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stevebaby said:
I just tried to think of anything "made in america" that I own.The only thing I could think of is a Stanley handplane(made in 1920).That's not because I'm anti american.It's because american goods are poor value,overpriced and shoddy.Most of the consumer goods in my house were manufactured in asia.
How much does the us owe china for the war in iraq?
As Tony Soprano said "Sometimes it's more dangerous to be owed money than to owe it".
The real danger is to china.
:eek:

I think in real terms, China is the powerbroker and kingmaker.
The USA has been pleading with the Chinese to "unpeg" their currency from the dollar because the USA simply cannot compete with China in economic terms.
The level of chinese exports to the USA has quadrupled since 1999 and is forecast to quadruple again by 2012.
 

Billsworld

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Sep 6, 2005
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stevebaby said:
You will note that I have included an extra 10 wars.You can find the rest yourself at :http:/www.history.navy.mil/wars/foabroad.htm,Instances of Use of United States Forces Abroad,Ellen C. Collier,specialist in us Foreign policy,foreign affairs and national defense division, or United States Military Campaigns,Conflicts,Expeditions and Wars (http:freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com~vanhornfamily/military.htm) Larry Van Horn,us navy ret'd.
:)
Upside is trees are softer than cars.............Do you own anything from Microsoft??:D
 

Colorado Ryder

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Mar 17, 2005
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stevebaby said:
The japanese were buying oil from the dutch until roosevelt put pressure on the dutch government not to sell.
Not true. Japan purchased almost all of their oil from the US.

stevebaby said:
The people of china may have been poor compared to westerners,but there were billions of them.They were and are the biggest market in the worldand a source of cheap labour (then and now).
The China of today is a lot like the China of the 1930's? China in the 1930's was agricultural, rural, and in many ways backwards. There was no "market" at the time.

stevebaby said:
There are more ways to start a war than militarily.The us declared an economic war.Why would the us care about japanese expansion in asia.The japanese were no threat to the us mainland.If the us had no economic interest in china,why impose an embargo?
The US put an embargo in place after Japan invaded China, Manchuria, Korea, and Indochina. So you believe that if there is no economic interest then the people of China should have been left to the mercy of the Japanese?

stevebaby said:
and the us invaded the phillipines.How were the japanese any different?
Who owned the Phillipines before the US? Seems the Phillipines were granted independence by the US.

stevebaby said:
The japanese did not invade the us.They attacked a naval base on a small group of islands that the us had itself invaded.
You've got to be kidding. The US invaded Hawaii? When did this event happen?

stevebaby said:
Hirohito was the military leader of japan.He had full knowledge of all military actions and approved of them.If the emporor wasn't guilty,noone was.
You really don't have any grasp of Japanese society during the war.

stevebaby said:
The us did not rebuild japan after the war.They allowed japan to keep virtually everything that the japanese had looted from asia to provide the capital to rebuild.they didn't do it out of the goodness of their hearts.the japanese were in debt to us banks (morgan bank,dillon read and others) and had been since the tokyo earthquake of 1923.These banks had no way of recovering their investments if japan was not allowed to recover economically.
Got any proof of this? Japan's industrial capacity had been destroyed by US bombing. They had no natural resources and no way to get them. Of course the US didn't do it out of goodness. The US had seen the mistakes of France and England and how they dealt with a defeated enemy after WWI.
 

Billsworld

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Sep 6, 2005
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stevebaby said:
Hafta laugh at the irony...The democrats have always been accused of being profligate spenders and clinton balanced the budget.The republicans claim to be financially responsible and they have incurred the most massive debt in history.
:D
You could argue that the repubs in congress kept him in check from over spending.....Dont forget massive revenue from the dot com boom that went bust under slick willi....they all suck!!
 

limerickman

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Jan 5, 2004
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Billsworld said:
You could argue that the repubs in congress kept him in check from over spending.....Dont forget massive revenue from the dot com boom that went bust under slick willi....they all suck!!

Clinton left office with the US economy in excellent shape ;

Unemployment 3.7% in 2000
US Federal Budget deficit surplus = $200 billion
GDP = 4.9%.
Trade surplus : approx $30b per month.
US interest rates also at an all time low.
Excellent management of the macro-economy.

Bush :

Unemployment 5%
US Federal Budget Deficit = $600 billion
GDP = 4.3%
US Interest have climbed 5 times in the past 18 months
 

Billsworld

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limerickman said:
Clinton left office with the US economy in excellent shape ;

Unemployment 3.7% in 2000
US Federal Budget deficit surplus = $200 billion
GDP = 4.9%.
Trade surplus : approx $30b per month.
US interest rates also at an all time low.
Excellent management of the macro-economy.

Bush :

Unemployment 5%
US Federal Budget Deficit = $600 billion
GDP = 4.3%
US Interest have climbed 5 times in the past 18 months
The economy moves in cycles. Giving a president or congress too much cretit for sitting during a good or bad cycle is flawed. Does Clinton get the credit for the dot com miracle as well as the burst. .The revenue generated during that time was the cause of the good times for Clinton, not some policies that he put forth . The economy WAS turning downward as Bush was sworn in.
 

limerickman

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Jan 5, 2004
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Billsworld said:
The economy moves in cycles. Giving a president or congress too much cretit for sitting during a good or bad cycle is flawed. Does Clinton get the credit for the dot com miracle as well as the burst. .The revenue generated during that time was the cause of the good times for Clinton, not some policies that he put forth . The economy WAS turning downward as Bush was sworn in.

Indeed there are economic cycles.
But that doesn't explain Clinton's professional management of your country's economy.

The fact of the matter is that Bill Clinton's goverment created the macro circumstances which allowed your country's economy to flourish.

The dotcom craze in material terms was confined to the stock market : the stock market is simply a barometre of business confidence.

The measurements I posted earlier are in the real economy and those indicies
show that Clinton and his administration got their policies and your economy flourished.
 

James Bruce Gil

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Aug 10, 2003
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limerickman said:
I think in real terms, China is the powerbroker and kingmaker.
The USA has been pleading with the Chinese to "unpeg" their currency from the dollar because the USA simply cannot compete with China in economic terms.
The level of chinese exports to the USA has quadrupled since 1999 and is forecast to quadruple again by 2012.

Limerick,

The Chinese economy is just showing signs of coming to the boil. When it explodes we will all be washed away.

I had occasion to go to Shanghai on business recently. Until then I had always assumed that there were thousands of workers in the factories and that low wages was the competative edge that they have.

What I observed was highly automated factories, set up with state of the art European and Japanese machinery & with seemingly almost nobody working in them. It was at least reminicant of the staffing of factories in Germany and Scandinavia, however the manufacturing scale was another thing all together. The minor production over-runs in these enormous factories would be enough to stock all the stores in Australia.

It was manufacturing on truely behemothally huge scale. The other thing that I observed is that the Chinese have a real desire not to pass through the phase of producing the cheap rubbish, that both the Japanese and the Koreans had to do.

Kind regards,