Cleaning my frame.

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Fraggle, Aug 22, 2003.

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  1. Fraggle

    Fraggle Guest

    I got some little sticky reflective strips from halfords, but they wont stick to my frame due to the
    grease and grunge!

    I guess I am going to buy some of that pink "muc off" or similar stuff.

    From reading the bottle it sounds quite aggresive (you have to wash it off within a minute or so, it
    does not list the dire consequences if you dont, but....) Not the sort of thing you want in your
    chain or mech, however with the spray gun nozzle i bet it goes everywhere.

    Anyone got any feelings that is a bad idea? maybe fairy liquid is just as good?

    Thanks for your thoughts

    Fragg
     
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  2. On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:16:16 +0000, Fraggle did issue forth:

    > I got some little sticky reflective strips from halfords, but they wont stick to my frame due to
    > the grease and grunge!
    >
    > I guess I am going to buy some of that pink "muc off" or similar stuff.
    >
    > From reading the bottle it sounds quite aggresive (you have to wash it off within a minute or so,
    > it does not list the dire consequences if you dont, but....) Not the sort of thing you want in
    > your chain or mech, however with the spray gun nozzle i bet it goes everywhere.

    Muc Off is really agressive stuff. If you wash it off within about 30 seconds of spraying it on,
    it's not so bad though.

    For what you're doing, I'd recommend alcohol, as it'll clean any surface grease off and will
    evaporate leaving no residue.

    Huw "Try a nice chianti" Pritchard
     
  3. Call Me Bob

    Call Me Bob Guest

    On 21 Aug 2003 22:16:16 GMT, Fraggle <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I got some little sticky reflective strips from halfords, but they wont stick to my frame due to
    >the grease and grunge!
    >
    >I guess I am going to buy some of that pink "muc off" or similar stuff.

    I bought some a while back (only 'cause it was on special offer) and have not been very impressed.
    Yeah, it's okay, but for the price they charge I'd want it to actually clean and buff the bike for
    me. I won't be buying any again, think I'll try car shampoo next. Mix some up in the empty Muc-Off
    bottle and pre-spray with that, should work with general road grime...

    >Anyone got any feelings that is a bad idea? maybe fairy liquid is just as good?

    Probably do just fine for the job you have, gotta be worth trying before splashing out on the Muc
    Off. You could also use white spirit.

    Incidently, if you want more reflective strips, the Northants road safety web shoppy do them very
    cheaply. Loads of different colours, 20p for a 10cm x 3cm strip.

    http://www.shopcreator.com/mall/RoadSafetyOnline/products/product-69745.stm

    I've got two reflective bands around each front fork leg of my hack and it's very visible in
    headlights.

    Bob
    --
    Mail address is spam trapped To reply by email remove the beverage
     
  4. Marc

    Marc Guest

    Fraggle <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I got some little sticky reflective strips from halfords, but they wont stick to my frame due to
    > the grease and grunge!
    Or because your not sticking them on properly. 99% of adhesives nowadays are pressure sensitive
    acrylic adhesives , rather than the tacky petroleum based gums of yesteryear. The key word is
    PRESSURE sensitive, once you have a clean substrate you need to apply your strips with presutre to
    break the little bubbles of suspended adhesive on the rear surface, a hard but rounded edge like a
    CD case is ideal for this. The reflective stuff you have bought is likely to be 7/10 year life
    adhesive ( We supply lots of it to Merseyside police) and onto a clean surface with proper
    application will last well beyond that time.
     
  5. Fraggle

    Fraggle Guest

    [email protected] (Marc) wrote in news:[email protected]:

    > Fraggle <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> I got some little sticky reflective strips from halfords, but they wont stick to my frame due to
    >> the grease and grunge!
    >
    > Or because your not sticking them on properly. 99% of adhesives nowadays are pressure sensitive
    > ..... clean substrate ....a clean surface with proper application will last well beyond that time.
    >

    Thanks for the advice, They do stick better with increased pressure, I used my parks tool :) However
    without a "clean substrate" the edges don't stay down even as I watch!

    just ordered Hope Sh1t Shifter Cleaner from wiggle, ah impulse buying on the internet I love it!

    Fragg
     
  6. Adam Dugmore

    Adam Dugmore Guest

    "Fraggle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I got some little sticky reflective strips from halfords, but they wont stick to my frame due to
    > the grease and grunge!
    >
    > I guess I am going to buy some of that pink "muc off" or similar stuff.
    >
    > From reading the bottle it sounds quite aggresive (you have to wash it off within a minute or so,
    > it does not list the dire consequences if you dont, but....) Not the sort of thing you want in
    > your chain or mech, however
    with
    > the spray gun nozzle i bet it goes everywhere.
    >
    > Anyone got any feelings that is a bad idea? maybe fairy liquid is just as good?
    >
    > Thanks for your thoughts
    >
    > Fragg

    Having used Muc Off to clean customers' bikes as well as my own bikes, motorcycles and parts of the
    car, I rate it. It won't matter if it gets in your chain and cassette as you've already cleaned
    those parts with a biodegradeable degreaser such as Ecotec... haven't you??

    Can't recommend Fairy liquid - it contains salts which will wreck your paintwork, hence never use it
    on your car either.

    --
    Adam Dugmore

    Kawasaki ZZR-600 - Purple! Honda CB500R - Dead and gone... Kona Explosif - Sparkling
     
  7. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    > Can't recommend Fairy liquid - it contains salts which will wreck your paintwork, hence never use
    > it on your car either.

    I find that hard to believe. A mild solution of washing up liquid has never damaged the paintwork on
    any of my bikes.

    ~PB
     
  8. Adam Dugmore

    Adam Dugmore Guest

    "Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > > Can't recommend Fairy liquid - it contains salts which will wreck your paintwork, hence never
    > > use it on your car either.
    >
    > I find that hard to believe. A mild solution of washing up liquid has never damaged the paintwork
    > on any of my bikes.

    Your bike, your call. Would you do your dishes with car shampoo, though? Though not.

    It makes me laugh the amounts people will spend on a bike or a car, but suddenly they get very tight
    fisted when it comes to cleaning products.

    --
    Adam Dugmore

    Kawasaki ZZR-600 - Purple! Honda CB500R - Dead and gone... Kona Explosif - Sparkling
     
  9. Adam Dugmore tried to scribble ...

    > "Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >>
    >>> Can't recommend Fairy liquid - it contains salts which will wreck your paintwork, hence never
    >>> use it on your car either.
    >>
    >> I find that hard to believe. A mild solution of washing up liquid has never damaged the paintwork
    >> on any of my bikes.
    >
    > Your bike, your call. Would you do your dishes with car shampoo, though? Though not.
    >
    > It makes me laugh the amounts people will spend on a bike or a car, but suddenly they get very
    > tight fisted when it comes to cleaning products.

    Jet wash .. £39.95 and it cleans the Landrover and the patio too.

    Course, it also removes crap paint like it wasn't even there too ....;)

    --
    Digweed
     
  10. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Adam Dugmore wrote:

    >>> Can't recommend Fairy liquid - it contains salts which will wreck your paintwork

    I would be interested in learning where that information comes from, what salts and paint it relates
    to exactly, and what exactly is meant by "wrecked". What do the frames end up looking like?

    >> I find that hard to believe. A mild solution of washing up liquid has never damaged the paintwork
    >> on any of my bikes.
    >
    > Your bike, your call. Would you do your dishes with car shampoo, though? Though not.

    Why would I want to do that? I only use a specialist product (if you can call it that) for dishes
    because it is cheap and it works. It also happens to work on bike frames and a million other things.

    > It makes me laugh the amounts people will spend on a bike or a car, but suddenly they get very
    > tight fisted when it comes to cleaning products.

    Maybe they are "tight fisted" because they invest all their bike budget into parts and accessories
    that really matter and have got none left to waste on vastly overpriced cosmetics. Not everyone has
    unlimited funds.

    I find it funny that people worry that much about bike paintwork - which is actually very hard to
    damage anyway with any mild cleaning product.

    ~PB
     
  11. Adam Dugmore

    Adam Dugmore Guest

    "Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Adam Dugmore wrote:
    >
    > >>> Can't recommend Fairy liquid - it contains salts which will wreck your paintwork
    >
    > I would be interested in learning where that information comes from, what salts and paint it
    > relates to exactly, and what exactly is meant by "wrecked". What do the frames end up
    > looking like?
    >
    > >> I find that hard to believe. A mild solution of washing up liquid has never damaged the
    > >> paintwork on any of my bikes.
    > >
    > > Your bike, your call. Would you do your dishes with car shampoo, though? Though not.
    >
    > Why would I want to do that? I only use a specialist product (if you can call it that) for
    > dishes because it is cheap and it works. It also happens to work on bike frames and a million
    > other things.
    >
    > > It makes me laugh the amounts people will spend on a bike or a car, but suddenly they get very
    > > tight fisted when it comes to cleaning products.
    >
    > Maybe they are "tight fisted" because they invest all their bike budget into parts and accessories
    > that really matter and have got none left to waste on vastly overpriced cosmetics. Not everyone
    > has unlimited funds.
    >
    > I find it funny that people worry that much about bike paintwork - which is actually very hard to
    > damage anyway with any mild cleaning product.

    Like I said, your bike, your call. I don't much care what you use as you're not going to be washing
    any of my bikes.

    --
    Adam Dugmore

    Kawasaki ZZR-600 - Purple! Honda CB500R - Dead and gone... Kona Explosif - Sparkling
     
  12. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Adam Dugmore wrote:

    > Like I said, your bike, your call. I don't much care what you use as you're not going to be
    > washing any of my bikes.

    It's not just about your bikes and my bikes is it? As this is a public newsgroup, it should be about
    discussing what is and isn't suitable to use on bike paintwork in general. More evidence and
    technical data may help others decide on what products to use. Further information on salts in
    washing-up liquid would be interesting.

    ~PB
     
  13. Jim Price

    Jim Price Guest

    Pete Biggs wrote:
    > Adam Dugmore wrote:
    >>Like I said, your bike, your call. I don't much care what you use as you're not going to be
    >>washing any of my bikes.
    >
    > It's not just about your bikes and my bikes is it? As this is a public newsgroup, it should be
    > about discussing what is and isn't suitable to use on bike paintwork in general. More evidence and
    > technical data may help others decide on what products to use. Further information on salts in
    > washing-up liquid would be interesting.

    The only really good solid fact I can find with a quick trawl with Google is that in Sweden, there
    is a limit of 1.5% salt in washing up liquid if it is to carry the "Good Environmental Choice"
    label. Source: http://www.snf.se/pdf/bmv/bmv-kem-cleaninga-crit.pdf This rather suggests there may
    be washing up liquids with salt content in a range around this figure. Ecover, for example, state
    that salt is among ingredients making up 5% of its washing up liquid.

    Salt is used to thicken washing up liquid (and lots of other detergent based products - check your
    cheap shampoo bottle in the bathroom!), so if you are going to clean bikes with it, use a thin
    runny one.

    Apart from the corrosion issue with metals, salt will also attack (albeit usually slowly) many types
    of paint, particularly clear surface coats. This isn't easy to corroborate on the web, but ask
    anyone who has a seafaring boat.

    --
    Jim Price

    http://www.jimprice.dsl.pipex.com

    Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.
     
  14. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Jim Price wrote:
    > The only really good solid fact I can find with a quick trawl with Google is that in Sweden, there
    > is a limit of 1.5% salt in washing up liquid if it is to carry the "Good Environmental Choice"
    > label. Source: http://www.snf.se/pdf/bmv/bmv-kem-cleaninga-crit.pdf This rather suggests there may
    > be washing up liquids with salt content in a range around this figure. Ecover, for example, state
    > that salt is among ingredients making up 5% of its washing up liquid.
    >
    > Salt is used to thicken washing up liquid (and lots of other detergent based products - check your
    > cheap shampoo bottle in the bathroom!), so if you are going to clean bikes with it, use a thin
    > runny one.
    >
    > Apart from the corrosion issue with metals, salt will also attack (albeit usually slowly) many
    > types of paint, particularly clear surface coats. This isn't easy to corroborate on the web, but
    > ask anyone who has a seafaring boat.

    Surely there's a world of difference between a boat continually floating in sea water and a bike
    frame getting the occasional wash with *diluted* washing-up liquid?

    ~PB
     
  15. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    How does the salt compare to the potassium hydroxide in muc-off?

    cheers, clive
     
  16. Jim Price

    Jim Price Guest

    Pete Biggs wrote:
    > Surely there's a world of difference between a boat continually floating in sea water and a bike
    > frame getting the occasional wash with *diluted* washing-up liquid?

    Yep. About the same difference as there is between your boat being constantly in the sea and
    occaisionally riding your bike through salted slush in the winter. Even with a world of difference,
    the effect on your bike may still be noticable after a while, as the effects of the sea are really
    extreme. If you left your bike in the sea for a month, it would be corroded so badly it may not be
    worth fishing it out again. In the canal would be a different thing, and you might get it working
    with a good clean and lube, and maybe new bearings all round. I'd add another tip if you're going to
    use washing up liquid - wash it again with clean water afterwards, because any of the salt left
    behind gets to do its dirty work over potentially quite a long time if you leave any smears.

    None of the effects of salt are going to dissolve your bike right in front of your eyes the minute
    you finish washing it, but that doesn't make it a good thing to use on your bike on a regular basis.

    --
    Jim Price

    http://www.jimprice.dsl.pipex.com

    Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.
     
  17. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Jim Price wrote:
    > Yep. About the same difference as there is between your boat being constantly in the sea and
    > occaisionally riding your bike through salted slush in the winter. Even with a world of
    > difference, the effect on your bike may still be noticable after a while

    What are the effects exactly and how much of a while?

    ~PB
     
  18. Jim Price

    Jim Price Guest

    Pete Biggs wrote:

    > Jim Price wrote:
    >
    >>Yep. About the same difference as there is between your boat being constantly in the sea and
    >>occaisionally riding your bike through salted slush in the winter. Even with a world of
    >>difference, the effect on your bike may still be noticable after a while
    >
    >
    > What are the effects exactly and how much of a while?

    And how long is a piece of string? It will depend on the chemistry between any deposits from the
    cleaning materials and your paintwork/exposed metalwork, and then on how long it is before you next
    ride in the rain etc. etc. I have no details on any of that, so it would be GIGO to comment exactly.
    Take your chances with a "while", or just take the easy option and avoid applying salt to your bike.

    --
    Jim Price

    http://www.jimprice.dsl.pipex.com

    Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.
     
  19. Peter Clinch

    Peter Clinch Guest

    Pete Biggs wrote:

    > What are the effects exactly and how much of a while?

    Can't give you exact figures, but I've seen moving parts on aluminium climbing gear seize completely
    solid after a brief dip in seawater and not getting a comprehensive clean ASAP. Being a sea kayaker
    I see a lot of salt water effects on stuff, and it really does bugger up practically anything metal
    it touches :-( Alloy tent poles travelling inside, which is more or less waterproof aside from the
    odd drip, have been known to split on subsequent use if not well cleaned between trips. Salt in
    solution will seep into any cracks and then crystals grow which seize moving parts as well as open
    up cracks to let in more water and cause more corrosion.

    When I had a car I never bothered washing it *except* a drive-through with underbody wash and wax in
    winter after any long drive with salted roads. My car might have been in a general state of
    component decay, but the bodywork was fine.

    From what I've seen salt really is worth avoiding as much as you can. I usually clean my frames
    with an old rag and elbow grease, with a little GT85 to help clean off stubborn muck (it seems to
    work and I've got the can there for general lube at the same time).

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email protected]
    http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
  20. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Rhubarb is poisonous.

    ~PB
     
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