Clicking old-generation Mavic Open Pro joint problem possibly solved

[Phil, Squid-in-Training]

This weekend, an older gentleman on his Merlin came in and requested a fix
for a noise. On the first pedal stroke I knew what it was... sure enough,
when I came to a stop, I noticed the rear wheel has an Open Pro. I let him
know that it would need to be replaced and the cost.

Today my boss examines the wheel, calls up Mavic, and Mavic gives them the
following solution: Use an awl, punch, or some other sharp tool to re-deform
the slight depressions that are formed at both sides of the rim joint. You
know, the little dimples on the inside of the rim under the rim tape. I
didn't get the final word on whether this worked or not, but I'll keep you
guys posted on it... this may save you or your customers the price and pain
of a rim rebuild.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

 

[G.T.]

Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
> This weekend, an older gentleman on his Merlin came in and requested a fix
> for a noise. On the first pedal stroke I knew what it was... sure enough,
> when I came to a stop, I noticed the rear wheel has an Open Pro. I let him
> know that it would need to be replaced and the cost.
>
> Today my boss examines the wheel, calls up Mavic, and Mavic gives them the
> following solution: Use an awl, punch, or some other sharp tool to re-deform
> the slight depressions that are formed at both sides of the rim joint. You
> know, the little dimples on the inside of the rim under the rim tape. I
> didn't get the final word on whether this worked or not, but I'll keep you
> guys posted on it... this may save you or your customers the price and pain
> of a rim rebuild.

We did that with our 517s back in the day. Doesn't Mavic learn?

Greg

--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons

 

[Phil, Squid-in-Training]

"G.T." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
>> This weekend, an older gentleman on his Merlin came in and requested a
>> fix for a noise. On the first pedal stroke I knew what it was... sure
>> enough, when I came to a stop, I noticed the rear wheel has an Open Pro.
>> I let him know that it would need to be replaced and the cost.
>>
>> Today my boss examines the wheel, calls up Mavic, and Mavic gives them
>> the following solution: Use an awl, punch, or some other sharp tool to
>> re-deform the slight depressions that are formed at both sides of the rim
>> joint. You know, the little dimples on the inside of the rim under the
>> rim tape. I didn't get the final word on whether this worked or not, but
>> I'll keep you guys posted on it... this may save you or your customers
>> the price and pain of a rim rebuild.
>
> We did that with our 517s back in the day. Doesn't Mavic learn?

Oy... then where were you several months ago when we discussed this the
first time?

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

 

[Nate Knutson]

Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
> "G.T." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
> >> This weekend, an older gentleman on his Merlin came in and requested a
> >> fix for a noise. On the first pedal stroke I knew what it was... sure
> >> enough, when I came to a stop, I noticed the rear wheel has an Open Pro.
> >> I let him know that it would need to be replaced and the cost.
> >>
> >> Today my boss examines the wheel, calls up Mavic, and Mavic gives them
> >> the following solution: Use an awl, punch, or some other sharp tool to
> >> re-deform the slight depressions that are formed at both sides of the rim
> >> joint. You know, the little dimples on the inside of the rim under the
> >> rim tape. I didn't get the final word on whether this worked or not, but
> >> I'll keep you guys posted on it... this may save you or your customers
> >> the price and pain of a rim rebuild.
> >
> > We did that with our 517s back in the day. Doesn't Mavic learn?
>
> Oy... then where were you several months ago when we discussed this the
> first time?
>
> --
> Phil, Squid-in-Training

Do you know if this supposedly works on all welded Mavics?

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> Today my boss examines the wheel, calls up Mavic, and Mavic gives them the
> following solution: Use an awl, punch, or some other sharp tool to
> re-deform the slight depressions that are formed at both sides of the rim
> joint. You know, the little dimples on the inside of the rim under the
> rim tape. I didn't get the final word on whether this worked or not, but
> I'll keep you guys posted on it... this may save you or your customers the
> price and pain of a rim rebuild.

Unfortnately, doesn't always work.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:GKTFf.158736$oG.80683@dukeread02...
> This weekend, an older gentleman on his Merlin came in and requested a fix
> for a noise. On the first pedal stroke I knew what it was... sure enough,
> when I came to a stop, I noticed the rear wheel has an Open Pro. I let
> him know that it would need to be replaced and the cost.
>
> Today my boss examines the wheel, calls up Mavic, and Mavic gives them the
> following solution: Use an awl, punch, or some other sharp tool to
> re-deform the slight depressions that are formed at both sides of the rim
> joint. You know, the little dimples on the inside of the rim under the
> rim tape. I didn't get the final word on whether this worked or not, but
> I'll keep you guys posted on it... this may save you or your customers the
> price and pain of a rim rebuild.
> --
> Phil, Squid-in-Training
>

 

[Phil, Squid-in-Training]

"Nate Knutson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
>> "G.T." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
>> >> This weekend, an older gentleman on his Merlin came in and requested a
>> >> fix for a noise. On the first pedal stroke I knew what it was... sure
>> >> enough, when I came to a stop, I noticed the rear wheel has an Open
>> >> Pro.
>> >> I let him know that it would need to be replaced and the cost.
>> >>
>> >> Today my boss examines the wheel, calls up Mavic, and Mavic gives them
>> >> the following solution: Use an awl, punch, or some other sharp tool to
>> >> re-deform the slight depressions that are formed at both sides of the
>> >> rim
>> >> joint. You know, the little dimples on the inside of the rim under
>> >> the
>> >> rim tape. I didn't get the final word on whether this worked or not,
>> >> but
>> >> I'll keep you guys posted on it... this may save you or your customers
>> >> the price and pain of a rim rebuild.
>> >
>> > We did that with our 517s back in the day. Doesn't Mavic learn?
>>
>> Oy... then where were you several months ago when we discussed this the
>> first time?
>>
>> --
>> Phil, Squid-in-Training
>
> Do you know if this supposedly works on all welded Mavics?
>

As Mike mentioned, and as the Mavic rep alluded to, this does not always
work.

In industrial engineering, there's a certain latitude allowed in the
clearance of this particular variable, which generally falls under a bell
curve. Certain rims will fall outside a certain fraction of these, and
these won't be repairable. I bet more destructive methods such as drilling
a hole directly into the sleeve area and performing deformative surgery
there or tacking some weld rod in there would work just fine. Buuuut you
need the time and effort to do it. Plus a lot of people here would rather
rebuild a rim, for fun or some **** like that

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
> This weekend, an older gentleman on his Merlin came in and requested a fix
> for a noise. On the first pedal stroke I knew what it was... sure enough,
> when I came to a stop, I noticed the rear wheel has an Open Pro. I let him
> know that it would need to be replaced and the cost.

First of all, it's just a noise. It has nothing to do with the
integrity of the rim. That piece of aluminum is placed in there for
welding only. Replacement is not needed.
>
> Today my boss examines the wheel, calls up Mavic, and Mavic gives them the
> following solution: Use an awl, punch, or some other sharp tool to re-deform
> the slight depressions that are formed at both sides of the rim joint. You
> know, the little dimples on the inside of the rim under the rim tape. I
> didn't get the final word on whether this worked or not, but I'll keep you
> guys posted on it... this may save you or your customers the price and pain
> of a rim rebuild.

We have been doing this and other things like drilling holes and adding
glue, since the problem started 4-5 or more years ago. A punch
sometimes works, drilling always does.

But again, no rebuild for structural integrity needed. Only if the
person wants the noise to do away.

> --
> Phil, Squid-in-Training

 

[Phil, Squid-in-Training]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
>> This weekend, an older gentleman on his Merlin came in and requested
>> a fix for a noise. On the first pedal stroke I knew what it was...
>> sure enough, when I came to a stop, I noticed the rear wheel has an
>> Open Pro. I let him know that it would need to be replaced and the
>> cost.
>
> First of all, it's just a noise. It has nothing to do with the
> integrity of the rim. That piece of aluminum is placed in there for
> welding only. Replacement is not needed.
>>
>> Today my boss examines the wheel, calls up Mavic, and Mavic gives
>> them the following solution: Use an awl, punch, or some other sharp
>> tool to re-deform the slight depressions that are formed at both
>> sides of the rim joint. You know, the little dimples on the inside
>> of the rim under the rim tape. I didn't get the final word on
>> whether this worked or not, but I'll keep you guys posted on it...
>> this may save you or your customers the price and pain of a rim
>> rebuild.
>
> We have been doing this and other things like drilling holes and
> adding glue, since the problem started 4-5 or more years ago. A punch
> sometimes works, drilling always does.

Well, I missed the memo. I've never seen the punch or drill solutions
mentioned here, but maybe I'm slow.

> But again, no rebuild for structural integrity needed. Only if the
> person wants the noise to do away.

How can you stand it? It's like a squeaky chain, except you can't just lube
it up.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

 

[Sorni]

Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote (of noisy rim):

> How can you stand it? It's like a squeaky chain, except you can't
> just lube it up.

Headphones!

 

[Phil, Squid-in-Training]

Sorni wrote:
> Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote (of noisy rim):
>
>> How can you stand it? It's like a squeaky chain, except you can't
>> just lube it up.
>
> Headphones!

Cops!
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> > Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
> >> This weekend, an older gentleman on his Merlin came in and requested
> >> a fix for a noise. On the first pedal stroke I knew what it was...
> >> sure enough, when I came to a stop, I noticed the rear wheel has an
> >> Open Pro. I let him know that it would need to be replaced and the
> >> cost.
> >
> > First of all, it's just a noise. It has nothing to do with the
> > integrity of the rim. That piece of aluminum is placed in there for
> > welding only. Replacement is not needed.
> >>
> >> Today my boss examines the wheel, calls up Mavic, and Mavic gives
> >> them the following solution: Use an awl, punch, or some other sharp
> >> tool to re-deform the slight depressions that are formed at both
> >> sides of the rim joint. You know, the little dimples on the inside
> >> of the rim under the rim tape. I didn't get the final word on
> >> whether this worked or not, but I'll keep you guys posted on it...
> >> this may save you or your customers the price and pain of a rim
> >> rebuild.
> >
> > We have been doing this and other things like drilling holes and
> > adding glue, since the problem started 4-5 or more years ago. A punch
> > sometimes works, drilling always does.
>
> Well, I missed the memo. I've never seen the punch or drill solutions
> mentioned here, but maybe I'm slow.
>
> > But again, no rebuild for structural integrity needed. Only if the
> > person wants the noise to do away.
>
> How can you stand it? It's like a squeaky chain, except you can't just lube
> it up.

See above, we looked at the problem early on, knew Mavic had no clue
and figured that a punch or small hole would fix the problem. No memo,
just looked for and found a solution, about 5 years ago when SUP
started making it to the market.
>
> --
> Phil, Squid-in-Training

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
> Sorni wrote:
> > Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote (of noisy rim):
> >
> >> How can you stand it? It's like a squeaky chain, except you can't
> >> just lube it up.
> >
> > Headphones!
>
> Cops!
> --
> Phil, Squid-in-Training

I stand it by not using Mavic rims on my bicycle. Velocity, NOS
Campagnolo.....

 

[Scott]

Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> > Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
> >> This weekend, an older gentleman on his Merlin came in and requested
> >> a fix for a noise. On the first pedal stroke I knew what it was...
> >> sure enough, when I came to a stop, I noticed the rear wheel has an
> >> Open Pro. I let him know that it would need to be replaced and the
> >> cost.
> >
> > First of all, it's just a noise. It has nothing to do with the
> > integrity of the rim. That piece of aluminum is placed in there for
> > welding only. Replacement is not needed.
> >>
> >> Today my boss examines the wheel, calls up Mavic, and Mavic gives
> >> them the following solution: Use an awl, punch, or some other sharp
> >> tool to re-deform the slight depressions that are formed at both
> >> sides of the rim joint. You know, the little dimples on the inside
> >> of the rim under the rim tape. I didn't get the final word on
> >> whether this worked or not, but I'll keep you guys posted on it...
> >> this may save you or your customers the price and pain of a rim
> >> rebuild.
> >
> > We have been doing this and other things like drilling holes and
> > adding glue, since the problem started 4-5 or more years ago. A punch
> > sometimes works, drilling always does.
>
> Well, I missed the memo. I've never seen the punch or drill solutions
> mentioned here, but maybe I'm slow.
>
> > But again, no rebuild for structural integrity needed. Only if the
> > person wants the noise to do away.
>
> How can you stand it? It's like a squeaky chain, except you can't just lube
> it up.
>
> --
> Phil, Squid-in-Training

It goes away once your speed gets high enough that the loose piece is
held in place by centrifugal force. It's only noisy at slow speeds
where it has the opportunity to move around as the wheel rotates. That
said, even for those very small times when it is noticable, it is VERY
annoying.

 

[G.T.]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
>
> See above, we looked at the problem early on, knew Mavic had no clue
> and figured that a punch or small hole would fix the problem. No memo,
> just looked for and found a solution, about 5 years ago when SUP
> started making it to the market.
>

Time flies, it was much longer ago than 5 years. But the clicking on
the 517s never bothered me because on mine it only happened at very slow
speeds, and I never rode slow. Then. haahaha

Greg

--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons

 

[john]

Phil wrote:

Phil wrote:

>I bet more destructive methods such as drilling
>a hole directly into the sleeve area and performing deformative surgery
>there or tacking some weld rod in there would work just fine. Buuuut you
>need the time and effort to do it.

Heat-treated aluminum should never be welded, unless a welding engineer
who is intimately knowledgeable of the exact procedure to be used, has
approved it. So far as I know, no heat, treated hi strength Al is
weldable. Not even the tiniest tack weld. If you think hard anodizing
is bad, you ain't seen nothing yet. John

 

[Phil, Squid-in-Training]

john wrote:
> Phil wrote:
>
> Phil wrote:
>
>> I bet more destructive methods such as drilling
>> a hole directly into the sleeve area and performing deformative
>> surgery there or tacking some weld rod in there would work just
>> fine. Buuuut you need the time and effort to do it.
>
> Heat-treated aluminum should never be welded, unless a welding
> engineer who is intimately knowledgeable of the exact procedure to be
> used, has approved it. So far as I know, no heat, treated hi strength
> Al is weldable. Not even the tiniest tack weld. If you think hard
> anodizing is bad, you ain't seen nothing yet. John

Well, it's a rim, so it's not *that* critical. Think about it. If Jobst
used to ride rims with huge gaps between the two ends of the welded
extrusion before lacing, and the gap closed after tensioning, then
heat-treated aluminum in a rim isn't going to fail catastrophically. A
frame, yes... a rim, no.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

 

[Sir, It's Just Me]

I had that problem with my Open Pros back in 1998. Why Mavic has yet to
correct this annoying problem is beyond me.