Clicking old-generation Mavic Open Pro joint problem possibly solved

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Phil, Squid-in-Training, Feb 6, 2006.

  1. This weekend, an older gentleman on his Merlin came in and requested a fix
    for a noise. On the first pedal stroke I knew what it was... sure enough,
    when I came to a stop, I noticed the rear wheel has an Open Pro. I let him
    know that it would need to be replaced and the cost.

    Today my boss examines the wheel, calls up Mavic, and Mavic gives them the
    following solution: Use an awl, punch, or some other sharp tool to re-deform
    the slight depressions that are formed at both sides of the rim joint. You
    know, the little dimples on the inside of the rim under the rim tape. I
    didn't get the final word on whether this worked or not, but I'll keep you
    guys posted on it... this may save you or your customers the price and pain
    of a rim rebuild.
    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
    Tags:


  2. G.T.

    G.T. Guest

    Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
    > This weekend, an older gentleman on his Merlin came in and requested a fix
    > for a noise. On the first pedal stroke I knew what it was... sure enough,
    > when I came to a stop, I noticed the rear wheel has an Open Pro. I let him
    > know that it would need to be replaced and the cost.
    >
    > Today my boss examines the wheel, calls up Mavic, and Mavic gives them the
    > following solution: Use an awl, punch, or some other sharp tool to re-deform
    > the slight depressions that are formed at both sides of the rim joint. You
    > know, the little dimples on the inside of the rim under the rim tape. I
    > didn't get the final word on whether this worked or not, but I'll keep you
    > guys posted on it... this may save you or your customers the price and pain
    > of a rim rebuild.


    We did that with our 517s back in the day. Doesn't Mavic learn?

    Greg

    --
    "All my time I spent in heaven
    Revelries of dance and wine
    Waking to the sound of laughter
    Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons
     
  3. "G.T." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
    >> This weekend, an older gentleman on his Merlin came in and requested a
    >> fix for a noise. On the first pedal stroke I knew what it was... sure
    >> enough, when I came to a stop, I noticed the rear wheel has an Open Pro.
    >> I let him know that it would need to be replaced and the cost.
    >>
    >> Today my boss examines the wheel, calls up Mavic, and Mavic gives them
    >> the following solution: Use an awl, punch, or some other sharp tool to
    >> re-deform the slight depressions that are formed at both sides of the rim
    >> joint. You know, the little dimples on the inside of the rim under the
    >> rim tape. I didn't get the final word on whether this worked or not, but
    >> I'll keep you guys posted on it... this may save you or your customers
    >> the price and pain of a rim rebuild.

    >
    > We did that with our 517s back in the day. Doesn't Mavic learn?


    Oy... then where were you several months ago when we discussed this the
    first time? ;)

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
  4. Nate Knutson

    Nate Knutson Guest

    Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
    > "G.T." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
    > >> This weekend, an older gentleman on his Merlin came in and requested a
    > >> fix for a noise. On the first pedal stroke I knew what it was... sure
    > >> enough, when I came to a stop, I noticed the rear wheel has an Open Pro.
    > >> I let him know that it would need to be replaced and the cost.
    > >>
    > >> Today my boss examines the wheel, calls up Mavic, and Mavic gives them
    > >> the following solution: Use an awl, punch, or some other sharp tool to
    > >> re-deform the slight depressions that are formed at both sides of the rim
    > >> joint. You know, the little dimples on the inside of the rim under the
    > >> rim tape. I didn't get the final word on whether this worked or not, but
    > >> I'll keep you guys posted on it... this may save you or your customers
    > >> the price and pain of a rim rebuild.

    > >
    > > We did that with our 517s back in the day. Doesn't Mavic learn?

    >
    > Oy... then where were you several months ago when we discussed this the
    > first time? ;)
    >
    > --
    > Phil, Squid-in-Training


    Do you know if this supposedly works on all welded Mavics?
     
  5. > Today my boss examines the wheel, calls up Mavic, and Mavic gives them the
    > following solution: Use an awl, punch, or some other sharp tool to
    > re-deform the slight depressions that are formed at both sides of the rim
    > joint. You know, the little dimples on the inside of the rim under the
    > rim tape. I didn't get the final word on whether this worked or not, but
    > I'll keep you guys posted on it... this may save you or your customers the
    > price and pain of a rim rebuild.


    Unfortnately, doesn't always work.

    --Mike Jacoubowsky
    Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReaction.com
    Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

    "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:[email protected]
    > This weekend, an older gentleman on his Merlin came in and requested a fix
    > for a noise. On the first pedal stroke I knew what it was... sure enough,
    > when I came to a stop, I noticed the rear wheel has an Open Pro. I let
    > him know that it would need to be replaced and the cost.
    >
    > Today my boss examines the wheel, calls up Mavic, and Mavic gives them the
    > following solution: Use an awl, punch, or some other sharp tool to
    > re-deform the slight depressions that are formed at both sides of the rim
    > joint. You know, the little dimples on the inside of the rim under the
    > rim tape. I didn't get the final word on whether this worked or not, but
    > I'll keep you guys posted on it... this may save you or your customers the
    > price and pain of a rim rebuild.
    > --
    > Phil, Squid-in-Training
    >
     
  6. "Nate Knutson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
    >> "G.T." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >> > Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
    >> >> This weekend, an older gentleman on his Merlin came in and requested a
    >> >> fix for a noise. On the first pedal stroke I knew what it was... sure
    >> >> enough, when I came to a stop, I noticed the rear wheel has an Open
    >> >> Pro.
    >> >> I let him know that it would need to be replaced and the cost.
    >> >>
    >> >> Today my boss examines the wheel, calls up Mavic, and Mavic gives them
    >> >> the following solution: Use an awl, punch, or some other sharp tool to
    >> >> re-deform the slight depressions that are formed at both sides of the
    >> >> rim
    >> >> joint. You know, the little dimples on the inside of the rim under
    >> >> the
    >> >> rim tape. I didn't get the final word on whether this worked or not,
    >> >> but
    >> >> I'll keep you guys posted on it... this may save you or your customers
    >> >> the price and pain of a rim rebuild.
    >> >
    >> > We did that with our 517s back in the day. Doesn't Mavic learn?

    >>
    >> Oy... then where were you several months ago when we discussed this the
    >> first time? ;)
    >>
    >> --
    >> Phil, Squid-in-Training

    >
    > Do you know if this supposedly works on all welded Mavics?
    >


    As Mike mentioned, and as the Mavic rep alluded to, this does not always
    work.

    In industrial engineering, there's a certain latitude allowed in the
    clearance of this particular variable, which generally falls under a bell
    curve. Certain rims will fall outside a certain fraction of these, and
    these won't be repairable. I bet more destructive methods such as drilling
    a hole directly into the sleeve area and performing deformative surgery
    there or tacking some weld rod in there would work just fine. Buuuut you
    need the time and effort to do it. Plus a lot of people here would rather
    rebuild a rim, for fun or some crap like that ;)

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
  7. Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
    > This weekend, an older gentleman on his Merlin came in and requested a fix
    > for a noise. On the first pedal stroke I knew what it was... sure enough,
    > when I came to a stop, I noticed the rear wheel has an Open Pro. I let him
    > know that it would need to be replaced and the cost.


    First of all, it's just a noise. It has nothing to do with the
    integrity of the rim. That piece of aluminum is placed in there for
    welding only. Replacement is not needed.
    >
    > Today my boss examines the wheel, calls up Mavic, and Mavic gives them the
    > following solution: Use an awl, punch, or some other sharp tool to re-deform
    > the slight depressions that are formed at both sides of the rim joint. You
    > know, the little dimples on the inside of the rim under the rim tape. I
    > didn't get the final word on whether this worked or not, but I'll keep you
    > guys posted on it... this may save you or your customers the price and pain
    > of a rim rebuild.


    We have been doing this and other things like drilling holes and adding
    glue, since the problem started 4-5 or more years ago. A punch
    sometimes works, drilling always does.

    But again, no rebuild for structural integrity needed. Only if the
    person wants the noise to do away.

    > --
    > Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
  8. Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
    > Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
    >> This weekend, an older gentleman on his Merlin came in and requested
    >> a fix for a noise. On the first pedal stroke I knew what it was...
    >> sure enough, when I came to a stop, I noticed the rear wheel has an
    >> Open Pro. I let him know that it would need to be replaced and the
    >> cost.

    >
    > First of all, it's just a noise. It has nothing to do with the
    > integrity of the rim. That piece of aluminum is placed in there for
    > welding only. Replacement is not needed.
    >>
    >> Today my boss examines the wheel, calls up Mavic, and Mavic gives
    >> them the following solution: Use an awl, punch, or some other sharp
    >> tool to re-deform the slight depressions that are formed at both
    >> sides of the rim joint. You know, the little dimples on the inside
    >> of the rim under the rim tape. I didn't get the final word on
    >> whether this worked or not, but I'll keep you guys posted on it...
    >> this may save you or your customers the price and pain of a rim
    >> rebuild.

    >
    > We have been doing this and other things like drilling holes and
    > adding glue, since the problem started 4-5 or more years ago. A punch
    > sometimes works, drilling always does.


    Well, I missed the memo. I've never seen the punch or drill solutions
    mentioned here, but maybe I'm slow.

    > But again, no rebuild for structural integrity needed. Only if the
    > person wants the noise to do away.


    How can you stand it? It's like a squeaky chain, except you can't just lube
    it up.

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
  9. Sorni

    Sorni Guest

    Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote (of noisy rim):

    > How can you stand it? It's like a squeaky chain, except you can't
    > just lube it up.


    Headphones!
     
  10. Sorni wrote:
    > Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote (of noisy rim):
    >
    >> How can you stand it? It's like a squeaky chain, except you can't
    >> just lube it up.

    >
    > Headphones!


    Cops!
    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
  11. Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
    > Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
    > > Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
    > >> This weekend, an older gentleman on his Merlin came in and requested
    > >> a fix for a noise. On the first pedal stroke I knew what it was...
    > >> sure enough, when I came to a stop, I noticed the rear wheel has an
    > >> Open Pro. I let him know that it would need to be replaced and the
    > >> cost.

    > >
    > > First of all, it's just a noise. It has nothing to do with the
    > > integrity of the rim. That piece of aluminum is placed in there for
    > > welding only. Replacement is not needed.
    > >>
    > >> Today my boss examines the wheel, calls up Mavic, and Mavic gives
    > >> them the following solution: Use an awl, punch, or some other sharp
    > >> tool to re-deform the slight depressions that are formed at both
    > >> sides of the rim joint. You know, the little dimples on the inside
    > >> of the rim under the rim tape. I didn't get the final word on
    > >> whether this worked or not, but I'll keep you guys posted on it...
    > >> this may save you or your customers the price and pain of a rim
    > >> rebuild.

    > >
    > > We have been doing this and other things like drilling holes and
    > > adding glue, since the problem started 4-5 or more years ago. A punch
    > > sometimes works, drilling always does.

    >
    > Well, I missed the memo. I've never seen the punch or drill solutions
    > mentioned here, but maybe I'm slow.
    >
    > > But again, no rebuild for structural integrity needed. Only if the
    > > person wants the noise to do away.

    >
    > How can you stand it? It's like a squeaky chain, except you can't just lube
    > it up.


    See above, we looked at the problem early on, knew Mavic had no clue
    and figured that a punch or small hole would fix the problem. No memo,
    just looked for and found a solution, about 5 years ago when SUP
    started making it to the market.
    >
    > --
    > Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
  12. Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
    > Sorni wrote:
    > > Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote (of noisy rim):
    > >
    > >> How can you stand it? It's like a squeaky chain, except you can't
    > >> just lube it up.

    > >
    > > Headphones!

    >
    > Cops!
    > --
    > Phil, Squid-in-Training


    I stand it by not using Mavic rims on my bicycle. Velocity, NOS
    Campagnolo.....
     
  13. Scott

    Scott Guest

    Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
    > Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
    > > Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
    > >> This weekend, an older gentleman on his Merlin came in and requested
    > >> a fix for a noise. On the first pedal stroke I knew what it was...
    > >> sure enough, when I came to a stop, I noticed the rear wheel has an
    > >> Open Pro. I let him know that it would need to be replaced and the
    > >> cost.

    > >
    > > First of all, it's just a noise. It has nothing to do with the
    > > integrity of the rim. That piece of aluminum is placed in there for
    > > welding only. Replacement is not needed.
    > >>
    > >> Today my boss examines the wheel, calls up Mavic, and Mavic gives
    > >> them the following solution: Use an awl, punch, or some other sharp
    > >> tool to re-deform the slight depressions that are formed at both
    > >> sides of the rim joint. You know, the little dimples on the inside
    > >> of the rim under the rim tape. I didn't get the final word on
    > >> whether this worked or not, but I'll keep you guys posted on it...
    > >> this may save you or your customers the price and pain of a rim
    > >> rebuild.

    > >
    > > We have been doing this and other things like drilling holes and
    > > adding glue, since the problem started 4-5 or more years ago. A punch
    > > sometimes works, drilling always does.

    >
    > Well, I missed the memo. I've never seen the punch or drill solutions
    > mentioned here, but maybe I'm slow.
    >
    > > But again, no rebuild for structural integrity needed. Only if the
    > > person wants the noise to do away.

    >
    > How can you stand it? It's like a squeaky chain, except you can't just lube
    > it up.
    >
    > --
    > Phil, Squid-in-Training


    It goes away once your speed gets high enough that the loose piece is
    held in place by centrifugal force. It's only noisy at slow speeds
    where it has the opportunity to move around as the wheel rotates. That
    said, even for those very small times when it is noticable, it is VERY
    annoying.
     
  14. G.T.

    G.T. Guest

    Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
    >
    >
    > See above, we looked at the problem early on, knew Mavic had no clue
    > and figured that a punch or small hole would fix the problem. No memo,
    > just looked for and found a solution, about 5 years ago when SUP
    > started making it to the market.
    >


    Time flies, it was much longer ago than 5 years. But the clicking on
    the 517s never bothered me because on mine it only happened at very slow
    speeds, and I never rode slow. Then. haahaha

    Greg

    --
    "All my time I spent in heaven
    Revelries of dance and wine
    Waking to the sound of laughter
    Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons
     
  15. john

    john Guest

    Phil wrote:

    Phil wrote:

    >I bet more destructive methods such as drilling
    >a hole directly into the sleeve area and performing deformative surgery
    >there or tacking some weld rod in there would work just fine. Buuuut you
    >need the time and effort to do it.


    Heat-treated aluminum should never be welded, unless a welding engineer
    who is intimately knowledgeable of the exact procedure to be used, has
    approved it. So far as I know, no heat, treated hi strength Al is
    weldable. Not even the tiniest tack weld. If you think hard anodizing
    is bad, you ain't seen nothing yet. John
     
  16. john wrote:
    > Phil wrote:
    >
    > Phil wrote:
    >
    >> I bet more destructive methods such as drilling
    >> a hole directly into the sleeve area and performing deformative
    >> surgery there or tacking some weld rod in there would work just
    >> fine. Buuuut you need the time and effort to do it.

    >
    > Heat-treated aluminum should never be welded, unless a welding
    > engineer who is intimately knowledgeable of the exact procedure to be
    > used, has approved it. So far as I know, no heat, treated hi strength
    > Al is weldable. Not even the tiniest tack weld. If you think hard
    > anodizing is bad, you ain't seen nothing yet. John


    Well, it's a rim, so it's not *that* critical. Think about it. If Jobst
    used to ride rims with huge gaps between the two ends of the welded
    extrusion before lacing, and the gap closed after tensioning, then
    heat-treated aluminum in a rim isn't going to fail catastrophically. A
    frame, yes... a rim, no.

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
  17. I had that problem with my Open Pros back in 1998. Why Mavic has yet to
    correct this annoying problem is beyond me.
     
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