Clinchers versus Tubulars

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Churchill, Jul 1, 2004.

  1. Churchill

    Churchill Guest

    First issue, can someone explain to me what a clincher is and what a tubular
    is ?!

    Do I have clinchers because it has the lip on the tire that goes under the
    rim ?!

    Do tubulars require special rims ?

    What is better for long distance road races ?! What are the Pro's using
    these days ?!

    Thank you
     
    Tags:


  2. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    Was it necessary to cross-post to three newsfroups? One would
    suffice. Seems kinda trollish, actually.

    On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 21:12:34 -0400, "Churchill" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >First issue, can someone explain to me what a clincher is and what a tubular
    >is ?!


    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html

    >Do I have clinchers because it has the lip on the tire that goes under the
    >rim ?!


    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html

    >Do tubulars require special rims ?


    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html

    >What is better for long distance road races ?! What are the Pro's using
    >these days ?!


    Whichever type you know how to repair is better for long distance
    road races, unless you're a pro, in which case it doesn't matter
    because you've got a guy following you with a vanload of extra
    pre-mounted and pre-inflated tires on wheels (and a few extra
    bikes).
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  3. bfd

    bfd Guest

    "Churchill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > First issue, can someone explain to me what a clincher is and what a

    tubular
    > is ?!
    >
    > Do I have clinchers because it has the lip on the tire that goes under the
    > rim ?!
    >
    > Do tubulars require special rims ?
    >
    > What is better for long distance road races ?! What are the Pro's using
    > these days ?!
    >

    You need to do some reading:

    Sheldon Brown (he's the man!)
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html

    From the Bicycle FAQ
    http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/section-14.html
     
  4. "Churchill" <[email protected]> writes:

    > First issue, can someone explain to me what a clincher is and what a tubular
    > is ?!


    A clincher is usually held onto the rim by wires enbedded in the tire. There
    are other varieties these days, but the clincher or ``wired on'' is the
    standard tire found on most bikes,

    A tubular has the tube sewn into the casing, is almost round im cross
    section across the tire and is held onto the rim by a special kind of glue
    called. Tubasti. Tubasti is a brand name but the other brands are not worthy
    of note.

    >
    > Do I have clinchers because it has the lip on the tire that goes under the
    > rim ?!


    Yes you do

    >
    > Do tubulars require special rims ?
    >


    Yes they do.

    > What is better for long distance road races ?! What are the Pro's using
    > these days ?!
    >


    Tubulars are better for any kind of road and/or track cycling.

    The pros prefer to use tubulars (glued ons or ``tubs'') but ride whatever
    they are told to ride.

    --
    le Vent a Dos. Davey Crockett
    http://petition.eurolinux.org ; http://members.rogers.com/sixday/sixday.html
    Please address all replies to the list
     
  5. "Davey Crockett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > >
    > > Do tubulars require special rims ?
    > >

    >
    > Yes they do.
    >


    A true tubular aficionado would have said, "Tubulars use regular rims.
    Everything else requires special rims."
     
  6. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    Rick Onanian <[email protected]> writes:

    > Was it necessary to cross-post to three newsfroups? One would
    > suffice. Seems kinda trollish, actually.


    Quite trollish, I thought.

    > On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 21:12:34 -0400, "Churchill" <[email protected]> wrote:


    <snip>

    >>What is better for long distance road races ?! What are the Pro's
    >>using these days ?!

    >
    > Whichever type you know how to repair is better for long distance
    > road races, unless you're a pro, in which case it doesn't matter
    > because you've got a guy following you with a vanload of extra
    > pre-mounted and pre-inflated tires on wheels (and a few extra
    > bikes).


    Now that is one very excellent summation!
     
  7. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 21:12:34 -0400, "Churchill" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >First issue, can someone explain to me what a clincher is and what a tubular
    >is ?!


    Tubular: A tire that is installed with glue, adhered to the face of
    the rim; it is a unitary assembly which includes the tube inside the
    sewn-shut tire. It is much more difficult to repair than a clincher.

    Clincher: A tire whose sidewalls bear against flanges on the rim,
    held in place by the tire's inflation pressure. The tire and tube are
    easily separable since the tire is not sewn closed.

    >Do I have clinchers because it has the lip on the tire that goes under the
    >rim ?!


    Yes.

    >Do tubulars require special rims ?


    Yes, although I have seen tubulars on a clincher 27" rim once. (The
    question of "why" was not answered.)

    >What is better for long distance road races ?!


    Opinions vary. Some conditions favor clinchers, and a few favor
    tubulars.

    > What are the Pro's using
    >these days ?!


    They use what they feel will give them the best edge for the
    conditions, unless they're racing for a team that is sponsored by a
    tire maker...in which case, they use the tires they are given, and
    presumably they learn to like them.

    At the most recent MD150, a spectator familiar with the difference
    reported to me that the vast majority of participants were riding
    clinchers. This race is not typical, however, and should not be used
    as a basis for any conclusions overall.
    --
    Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
    Some gardening required to reply via email.
    Surrealism is a pectinated ranzel.
     
  8. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 05:51:32 -0500, "Carl Sundquist"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"Davey Crockett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>
    >> >
    >> > Do tubulars require special rims ?
    >> >

    >>
    >> Yes they do.
    >>

    >
    >A true tubular aficionado would have said, "Tubulars use regular rims.
    >Everything else requires special rims."


    Interestingly, in the 1906 Sears-Roebuck catalog behind me, the
    bicycle tires listed are all tubulars. The rims were wood in those
    days, and the tires were glued on just as tubulars are today.


    --
    Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
    Some gardening required to reply via email.
    Surrealism is a pectinated ranzel.
     
  9. On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 21:13:35 GMT, Werehatrack
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 05:51:32 -0500, "Carl Sundquist"
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>"Davey Crockett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>
    >>> >
    >>> > Do tubulars require special rims ?
    >>> >
    >>>
    >>> Yes they do.
    >>>

    >>
    >>A true tubular aficionado would have said, "Tubulars use regular rims.
    >>Everything else requires special rims."

    >
    >Interestingly, in the 1906 Sears-Roebuck catalog behind me, the
    >bicycle tires listed are all tubulars. The rims were wood in those
    >days, and the tires were glued on just as tubulars are today.
    >


    Dear Werehatrack,

    Bah! Stop living in the past! Where have you been for the
    last ten years?

    You need to get an up-to-date internet-available mail-order
    bi-cycle catalogue:

    http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/morley/index.htm

    Specifically:

    http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/morley/08.jpg

    and

    http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/morley/09.jpg

    and

    http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/morley/10.jpg

    Either scan that Sears-Roebuck onto the internet or use its
    pages for their traditional purpose!

    Morley--the wave of the future!

    Carl Fogel
     
  10. Tubular tires, as we call them today were the only tires for cars and
    bicycles in the early days of pneumatic tires and were just called
    tires then. What sets them aside is that tires have an open casing
    that is held between the beads of the rim that is also (U-shaped).
    This allows access to the tube in the event of a puncture while the
    old tubulars could only be repaired by stuffing rubber bands and glue
    into the hole.

    Racing tubulars were not made as a closed hose around a captive tube
    but were made as a seamless bias two ply endless belt with a tread
    glued to one side. A tube was laid inside and the casing sewn shut
    around what becomes a tire. This stitch can be opened to access the
    tube and patch it as well as to inlay boot material where there are
    cord cuts. This is a time consuming process and it requires some
    skill that is not readily learned as I discovered in the years I ran
    weekly tire patch sessions for about 15 years in the days before high
    performance clincher tires.

    http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/section-15.html
    http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/section-16.html
    http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/section-25.html
    http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/section-19.html
    http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/section-23.html

    I do not ride tubulars any more and have four sets of tubular wheels
    gathering dust today. I see no reason for using them. The rolling
    resistance measurements of various tires was enough to kill the common
    believe that they roll better.

    http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/imgs/rolres.gif

    The glue offset makes them worse than better clinchers.

    Jobst Brandt
    [email protected]
     
  11. andres muro

    andres muro Guest

    Werehatrack <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 21:12:34 -0400, "Churchill" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > it is a unitary assembly >



    Is this sort of assembly legal? Isn't there something in the patriot
    act against this

    Andres

    PS: Sorry, I've been spending way too much time in the "misslead"
    thread
     
  12. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On 2 Jul 2004 20:04:08 -0700, [email protected] (andres muro) wrote:

    >Werehatrack <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >> On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 21:12:34 -0400, "Churchill" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> it is a unitary assembly >

    >
    >
    >Is this sort of assembly legal? Isn't there something in the patriot
    >act against this
    >
    >Andres
    >
    >PS: Sorry, I've been spending way too much time in the "misslead"
    >thread


    FWIW, I took one glance at it and ignored the thread. (Bush-bashing
    used to be fun, but it's too easy now; no challenge.)
    --
    Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
    Some gardening required to reply via email.
    Surrealism is a pectinated ranzel.
     
  13. rault-<< At the most recent MD150, a spectator familiar with the difference
    reported to me that the vast majority of participants were riding
    clinchers. This race >><BR><BR>


    Race??

    Peter Chisholm
    Vecchio's Bicicletteria
    1833 Pearl St.
    Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535
    http://www.vecchios.com
    "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  14. Neacalban1

    Neacalban1 Guest

    >At the most recent MD150, a spectator familiar with the difference
    >reported to me that the vast majority of participants were riding
    >clinchers. This race >>
    >
    >Race??Peter Chisholm Vecchio's


    or is that MS 150? not a race,officially.! I've done it 4 years,and feel
    embarrassed to show up on my high-end stuff,having trained with reasonable
    discipline, only find lots of people who do it on Huffy's that don't fit,don't
    shift, with underinflated tires, who manage to finish. ;-)
     
  15. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On 03 Jul 2004 17:06:34 GMT, [email protected] (Neacalban1) wrote:

    >>At the most recent MD150, a spectator familiar with the difference
    >>reported to me that the vast majority of participants were riding
    >>clinchers. This race >>
    >>
    >>Race??Peter Chisholm Vecchio's

    >
    >or is that MS 150? not a race,officially.! I've done it 4 years,and feel
    >embarrassed to show up on my high-end stuff,having trained with reasonable
    >discipline, only find lots of people who do it on Huffy's that don't fit,don't
    >shift, with underinflated tires, who manage to finish. ;-)


    Yeah, sorry, it's the Houston-Austin MS150. About a mile from the
    start, the head of the wave goes by at a decent speed in a fairly
    steady stream; I've been delayed on the way to places on the west side
    of town a couple of times by that event, so I've had a chance to see
    both the lead and the rest stream by. At that point, there are still
    a number of punters near the front on ride-what-you-got backyard
    bang-ups and fresh-from-Oshman's-last-year stuff, but the lead's
    already shaken out to being mostly roadies and mostly fit. The fact
    that quite a lot of the people on Huffys, Murrays, Walgeese, and other
    assorted such gear will actually make it to Austin is a source of
    considerable delight to some...and some embarassment to a few among
    the "what the hell are *they* doing here?" elite. A spy along the
    route up near Bellville related that in the front group last year, it
    was all roadies...and there was a maniac about a quarter of a mile
    behind them stroking furiously along on a knobby-tired mtb. (I asked
    if said maniac had a participant number; my source didn't recall, so
    that may have been a local who just jumped in for the moment.)

    If I feel ready for it, I might make the run myself next year. I
    suspect I'd end up about halfway back. I'm no distance racer; I can
    go like hell for a little while, but when the energy runs out, I'm a
    rolling roadblock...if I'm lucky. That seems to describe a fair
    number of MS150 riders.

    But I won't try it on an art bike, that's for sure.
    --
    Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
    Some gardening required to reply via email.
    Surrealism is a pectinated ranzel.
     
  16. Skip

    Skip Guest

    "Werehatrack" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 21:12:34 -0400, "Churchill" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > Yes, although I have seen tubulars on a clincher 27" rim once. (The
    > question of "why" was not answered.)


    I've done that once myself. The answer was that my spare (the tubular) was
    the only way to get the poor bloke whose clincher shredded (bad cut which
    ruined the tire casing) home. It worked remarkably well. Quite an abuse of
    a nice Clement Criterium Seta tire, but no harm was done.

    - Skip
     
  17. Skip

    Skip Guest

    "Werehatrack" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 21:12:34 -0400, "Churchill" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > Yes, although I have seen tubulars on a clincher 27" rim once. (The
    > question of "why" was not answered.)


    I've done that once myself. The answer was that my spare (the tubular) was
    the only way to get the poor bloke whose clincher shredded (bad cut which
    ruined the tire casing) home. It worked remarkably well. Quite an abuse of
    a nice Clement Criterium Seta tire, but no harm was done.

    - Skip
     
  18. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 23:47:50 GMT, [email protected]
    wrote:
    >Tubular tires, as we call them today were the only tires for cars and
    >bicycles in the early days of pneumatic tires and were just called
    >tires then. What sets them aside is that tires have an open casing
    >that is held between the beads of the rim that is also (U-shaped).
    >This allows access to the tube in the event of a puncture while the
    >old tubulars could only be repaired by stuffing rubber bands and glue
    >into the hole.


    This is unclear. Did you mean "Clincher tires, as we call them
    today..."? Tubulars don't have an open casing held between U-shaped
    rim beads...
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  19. Rick Onanian writes:

    >> Tubular tires, as we call them today were the only tires for cars
    >> and bicycles in the early days of pneumatic tires and were just
    >> called tires then. What sets them aside is that [today] tires have
    >> an open casing that is held between the beads of the rim that is
    >> also (U-shaped). This allows access to the tube in the event of a
    >> puncture while the old tubulars could only be repaired by stuffing
    >> rubber bands and glue into the hole.


    > This is unclear. Did you mean "Clincher tires, as we call them
    > today..."? Tubulars don't have an open casing held between U-shaped
    > rim beads...


    Tubular tires, as we call them today, were the only tires for cars and
    bicycles in the early days of pneumatic tires, and were just called
    tires then. A bit of context may have been lost in the above excerpt.

    That was before the clincher was introduced. eg. All tires were
    tubulars, as you can see on the web site Carl Fogel offered.

    Jobst Brandt
    [email protected]
     
  20. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 00:29:15 GMT, [email protected]
    wrote:

    >Tubular tires, as we call them today, were the only tires for cars and
    >bicycles in the early days of pneumatic tires, and were just called
    >tires then. A bit of context may have been lost in the above excerpt.
    >
    >That was before the clincher was introduced. eg. All tires were
    >tubulars, as you can see on the web site Carl Fogel offered.
    >


    Actually, in reading the material I had a little more closely, I
    noticed that by 1908 there was a form of clincher on the market for
    bikes; see the G&J Detachable Tire on page 170 of the 1908 Sears
    catalog, pictured here:

    http://www.instantattitudes.com/images/sears1908pg170.jpg

    (It's a big image, about 400K)
    --
    Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
    Some gardening required to reply via email.
    Surrealism is a pectinated ranzel.
     
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