Clippless Pedals and Crashing

Discussion in 'Australia and New Zealand' started by Max, Sep 25, 2004.

  1. Max

    Max Guest

    Hey group, I want to upgrade to clippless pedals, but am concerned that if I
    am going to take a fall, that clippless pedals will make it more dangerous,
    am I correct ?
     
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  2. >>>>> "Max" == Max <[email protected]> writes:

    Max> Hey group, I want to upgrade to clippless pedals, but am
    Max> concerned that if I am going to take a fall, that clippless
    Max> pedals will make it more dangerous, am I correct ?

    I've heard it argued that clipless pedals makes crashing more safe. The
    logic is that as your legs don't go out at angles you'll slide down your
    skin rather than breaking bones.

    I don't have any authoritative references, I don't even know if it's
    true. I think I saw it on this newsgroup somewhen.
    --
    Cheers
    Euan
     
  3. K&C Russell

    K&C Russell Guest

    "Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Hey group, I want to upgrade to clippless pedals, but am concerned that if

    I
    > am going to take a fall, that clippless pedals will make it more

    dangerous,
    > am I correct ?
    >


    Max,

    I took the 40kmph spill in a race 2 weeks back, I can guarantee you that the
    last thing you will be thinking of is how to unclip.

    More dangerous? I don't reckon. Pulverising you helmet on the road is
    dangerous, getting your feet out, to somehow prevent or lessen the impact
    would somehow be amazing.


    Kevin
     
  4. aeek

    aeek New Member

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    agree, the one speed stack I've had I came out of the clipless as if they weren't there, no release on my part.
    Think about it, track riders use straps because their forces will rip their cleats from the pedal.
    High energy crashes put similar stresses on the pedal/cleat so you release when you need to.
    (Possibly not true if you let your cleats get far to worn?)
     
  5. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch New Member

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    another possible (or just wildly theoretical) theory might be that clipless pedals (you know, the ones we all clip in and out of ;) ) stop you flying off the bike at higher speeds and therefore ower injuries. All us 'clippers' have done the slow speed slow fall-over-sideways-manouvre-at-the-lights but the only thing that will hurt is some skin perhaps and lots of your ride :)

    I nearly collected a cardoor a few weeks ago. it was in my first week of having my new eggbeaters and (i think) i disengaged as if they werent on! I seemed to sail over the bars and onto the bonnet of said car rahter quickly and i dont remember them catching at all.

    If they still concern you dial em down to the lowest/lossest setting till your confidence is up
     
  6. DaveB

    DaveB Guest

    flyingdutch wrote:
    > All us 'clippers' have done the slow speed slow
    > fall-over-sideways-manouvre-at-the-lights but the only thing that
    > will hurt is some skin perhaps and lots of your ride :)
    >

    I don't know Dutch. My fall earlier in the year was only around 15kph
    and onto dirt and I still managed 2 fractured wrists and a fractured
    elbow. I'm convinced that if I have a slow speed fall because of feet
    stuck in clips, it'll be another broken bone for me.

    DaveB
     
  7. Peter S

    Peter S Guest

    "Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Hey group, I want to upgrade to clippless pedals, but am concerned that if
    > I
    > am going to take a fall, that clippless pedals will make it more
    > dangerous,
    > am I correct ?


    I remember about 2 or 3 years ago, just after I'd bought clipless pedals and
    shoes, exiting a pedestrian underpass and suddenly being confronted by a
    mother pushing a pram. I was going quite slowly but braked hard to avoid
    hitting the pram. Didn't remember that I was clipped to the pedals. Next
    thing I was on the ground with the bike still firmly attached to my feet.
    Only injury was to my pride!

    Getting into and out of your clipless pedals is a learned experience. After
    a while it becomes second nature but like anything new you have to think
    about it and anticipate stopping and unclipping.

    The advantages far outweigh the chance of a fall which will likely be at
    slow speed anyway IMHO.

    Peter S
    [email protected]
     
  8. fred_nieman

    fred_nieman Guest

    Max wrote:
    > Hey group, I want to upgrade to clippless pedals, but am concerned that if I
    > am going to take a fall, that clippless pedals will make it more dangerous,
    > am I correct ?
    >
    >

    You'd think so, but it doesn't happen that way.

    I rode many years with toe-clips, and in minor (= no bones broken)
    crashes I mostly stayed attached. My major (ie: time in hospital)
    crashes flipped me out of the clips. Good or bad? Debateable. I guess
    I probably would have had the same level of injuries whether I'd been
    attached to the bike or not.

    Thank the (divinity of your choice) that I've never had a big spill when
    I've been using clippless pedals. But in all the spills I've had, I've
    just popped out of 'em when I kissed tarmac/gravel/dirt. This is using
    both twist to the outside only and twist either inside or outside
    clipless pedals. Looks like they're engineered to release you when
    trouble comes along.

    The exception to this is low-speed spills - when you're rolling to a
    stop, or starting from a stop and you need to stop again. I've had a
    few of these - and I couldn't get out of my clippless pedals in time to
    put a foot down. The results were slight bruises and/or abrasions to my
    left (individually and/or inclusively) palm, shoulder, elbow, knee, and
    ankle. Exactlty the same thing happened when I used clips and straps.

    Short answer: 99% sure that clipless pedals are just as safe as clips
    and straps. 1% sure that they are maybe safer.
     
  9. hippy

    hippy Guest

    "DaveB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > flyingdutch wrote:
    > > All us 'clippers' have done the slow speed slow
    > > fall-over-sideways-manouvre-at-the-lights but the only thing that
    > > will hurt is some skin perhaps and lots of your ride :)
    > >

    > I don't know Dutch. My fall earlier in the year was only around 15kph
    > and onto dirt and I still managed 2 fractured wrists and a fractured
    > elbow. I'm convinced that if I have a slow speed fall because of feet
    > stuck in clips, it'll be another broken bone for me.


    Not wanting to sound like a prick.. but.. did you
    land awkwardly or something? Low density bones?
    Just sounds like a lot of damage for 15kph! :-S

    For wrists, I'd suggest not sticking hands out when
    falling over. Just take the bike with you and land on
    your shoulder/hip. If you're lucky you might just slide
    along, if unlucky.. well.. shhh ;-)
    Of course, you have to crash lots before you can do
    anything to influence the aftermath. My skill lies in my
    ability to unleash the most viscious barrage of swear
    words in a split second you will ever hear :)

    When I've tipped over at low speed, I've _maybe_
    taken a _little_ skin off and been more pissed at
    scratching my shifters or something..

    hippy
     
  10. Ray

    Ray Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] says...
    > "DaveB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > flyingdutch wrote:
    > > > All us 'clippers' have done the slow speed slow
    > > > fall-over-sideways-manouvre-at-the-lights but the only thing that
    > > > will hurt is some skin perhaps and lots of your ride :)
    > > >

    > > I don't know Dutch. My fall earlier in the year was only around 15kph
    > > and onto dirt and I still managed 2 fractured wrists and a fractured
    > > elbow. I'm convinced that if I have a slow speed fall because of feet
    > > stuck in clips, it'll be another broken bone for me.

    >
    > Not wanting to sound like a prick.. but.. did you
    > land awkwardly or something? Low density bones?
    > Just sounds like a lot of damage for 15kph! :-S
    >
    > For wrists, I'd suggest not sticking hands out when
    > falling over. Just take the bike with you and land on
    > your shoulder/hip. If you're lucky you might just slide
    > along, if unlucky.. well.. shhh ;-)
    > Of course, you have to crash lots before you can do
    > anything to influence the aftermath. My skill lies in my
    > ability to unleash the most viscious barrage of swear
    > words in a split second you will ever hear :)
    >
    > When I've tipped over at low speed, I've _maybe_
    > taken a _little_ skin off and been more pissed at
    > scratching my shifters or something..
    >
    > hippy
    >
    >
    >

    I did my first stop and tip just the other day.

    Thought I was going well on clipless for almost 2 years without a fall
    but one momentary lapse in thinking and over you go. Strange feeling
    knowing it's too late to pull the foot out and just going for the ride.

    Laughed my head off the rest of the way to work for my foolish
    behaviour, no point getting stroppy :)

    Cheers Ray
     
  11. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch New Member

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    2. Two. Count them ONE-TWO fractured wrists??????????

    One i get. heck i did it myself years ago (tram tracks. Hippy's favourite stretch of Whitehorse Rd :rolleyes: )
    But TWO!!! AND an elbow. sheeesh

    What kind of dismount were you atttempting?
    If you fall sideways, Im guessing you stuck out the fall side wrist.
    did you go over the bars? At 15kph Im guessin not.
    Did you forget to mention the minor detail about the 200m clifftop you were on at the time?

    Gentlemen we aqre in the presence of gymnastic genius :rolleyes:

    F-'Im off to roll around driveway to try and achieve this amazing feat'-D :rolleyes:
     
  12. DaveB

    DaveB Guest

    flyingdutch wrote:
    > DaveB Wrote:
    >
    >>I don't know Dutch. My fall earlier in the year was only around 15kph
    >>and onto dirt and I still managed 2 fractured wrists and a fractured
    >>elbow. I'm convinced that if I have a slow speed fall because of feet
    >>stuck in clips, it'll be another broken bone for me.
    >>
    >>DaveB

    >
    >
    > 2. Two. Count them ONE-TWO fractured wrists??????????
    >
    > One i get. heck i did it myself years ago (tram tracks. Hippy's
    > favourite stretch of Whitehorse Rd :rolleyes: )
    > But TWO!!! AND an elbow. sheeesh
    >
    > What kind of dismount were you atttempting?
    > If you fall sideways, Im guessing you stuck out the fall side wrist.
    > did you go over the bars? At 15kph Im guessin not.
    > Did you forget to mention the minor detail about the 200m clifftop you
    > were on at the time?
    >
    > Gentlemen we aqre in the presence of gymnastic genius :rolleyes:
    >
    > F-'Im off to roll around driveway to try and achieve this amazing
    > feat'-D :rolleyes:
    >
    >


    Yes I'm still wondering how I managed it. The smashed thumb I could
    understand, havign been achieved somersaulting over a horse who decided
    not to jump (although I never realised a thumb could break in 8 places
    at once). But all that damage from a slow speed bike accident seemed a
    little excessive. I'm happy to give lessons on how not to fall but will
    need a volunteer from the audience.

    DaveB
     
  13. Marx SS

    Marx SS New Member

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    You can get those platform/cleated pedals to try it out. That’s how I did it. Next thing I knew I never used the platforms.
    Sure you get caught out, but no one gonna dis you for not getting outa your cleat in time. Gotta get your scars from somewhere.
     
  14. tortoise

    tortoise New Member

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    I made the switch last week. I had the same concerns previously but have found them remarkebly easy to use. A couple of times practising up and down my street and then it was off into the traffic with no problems. I find the key is just to stay calm and not panic if you need to unclip in a hurry, but if anything they are easier to get out of than tight straps
     
  15. Peter S

    Peter S Guest

    > I did my first stop and tip just the other day.
    >
    > Thought I was going well on clipless for almost 2 years without a fall
    > but one momentary lapse in thinking and over you go. Strange feeling
    > knowing it's too late to pull the foot out and just going for the ride.
    >
    > Laughed my head off the rest of the way to work for my foolish
    > behaviour, no point getting stroppy :)
    >
    > Cheers Ray
    >


    That nanosecond when you know you're going over but it's just to late to do
    anything about it ;o) - it's one of those feelings that can only be
    appreciated if you've been there yourself.

    At least you could laugh at it Ray!

    Peter S
    skypete(remove_this_bit)@iinet.net.au
     
  16. tony f

    tony f Guest

    "Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Hey group, I want to upgrade to clippless pedals, but am concerned that if

    I
    > am going to take a fall, that clippless pedals will make it more

    dangerous,
    > am I correct ?


    I'm never going back to toe clips. For me, clipless work better, hold me
    tighter, and I come out of them more easily - especially in falls. My feet
    just become detached automatically in a fall. SPuD stacks (and I've had a
    few over the years) are more likely if the cleats (and pedal counterparts)
    are worn or dirty. This tends to happen with mtbs... ;^)

    I had to have my toeclips so tight that circulation became a problem, or my
    feet kept coming off the pedals over jumps and rough stuff, yet I still came
    out of them unexpectedly, and still got stuck when I didn't want to!

    I have heard of people that tried, hated clipless and went back, but they're
    far and away in the minority of people I've known.

    Tony F
    http://www.thefathippy.com
    Blue Mtns mtb ride reviews, homemade bike lights
     
  17. casurina99

    casurina99 New Member

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    Yup - a friend who rode silly fast motorbikes stopped riding after three crashes trashed thee new set of leather - He also wore body armour under, for extra slide capacity. In his opinion the worst part was hitting the hard bits when the slide stopped. Nice example of nice and not so nice physics..
    slide or the thump after..

    Think sliding as you go down and choose a suitable god/deity whilst still in the air :)

    Three seperate light topples whilst clipped in in 10years has made me fully aware of the embarrassment of the issues - not to mention that its far worse while recumbent: Scrabbling round on you side trying to unclip that bottom foot under the bike, in a sloppy gutter !! :[ Such is life!

    Tom
     
  18. ProfTournesol

    ProfTournesol New Member

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    the only times I've fallen (once with toe clips, once with clipless) is when I forgot to clip in my brain (I was daydreaming)! That seems to be the main danger for me, not the type of pedal attachment:)
     
  19. fred_nieman

    fred_nieman Guest

    DaveB wrote:
    > flyingdutch wrote:
    > > All us 'clippers' have done the slow speed slow
    > > fall-over-sideways-manouvre-at-the-lights but the only thing that
    > > will hurt is some skin perhaps and lots of your ride :)
    > >

    > I don't know Dutch. My fall earlier in the year was only around 15kph
    > and onto dirt and I still managed 2 fractured wrists and a fractured
    > elbow. I'm convinced that if I have a slow speed fall because of feet
    > stuck in clips, it'll be another broken bone for me.
    >
    > DaveB
    >

    Speed, crashes, and injury levels: seems to me it's just a matter of
    how lucky you are with respect to physics.

    I crashed this one time ("This one time, at band camp" ;-) ), clipped by
    a taxi (the taxi driver was great about it, despite his "sorry, mate, I
    didn't see you" - heard that before?) going 45 km/h downhill through a
    roundabout in Richmond, Victoria, in 1996. I was soooooooooo lucky. I
    was using clips and straps at the time, but the taxi bump pushed me 100%
    supine (ie: onto my back) and my back-pack took all the force and
    consequent abrasion of the Hello, Road Surface! experience. Because of
    the physics of the crash, I didn't get flipped out of the clips and
    straps, and also because it landed me flat on my back, I didn't get a
    single palm/elbow/shoulder/thigh/knee/ankle abrasion. My (left+right
    cheeky monkeys) bum ("gluteus maximus", I think its called - spelling?)
    had big bruises from the initial Hello Road impact, but only very slight
    scratches. Lucky Physics.

    Another time, touring in Tasmania 1999, I got onto my bike and into my
    clipless pedals, then wobbled off the road into gravel at 5 km/h and
    fell over. Scrapes on my left ankle, left knee, left elbow, and left
    knuckles, and right elbow, right indside forearm and some right fingers
    trying to stop myself falling over.

    On SBS a few days ago, just before Lee Lin Chin came on to do the news
    in a distressed damask shocking pink batik bolero jacket with a
    matching/clashing skivvy/body suit and tiara/bandana/hijab combo (by a
    cutting edge of the cutting edge young Australian designer, of course),
    I saw some motorcycle Grand Prix (or whatever) dude come off his bike at
    300 km/h. He parted company with it.
    His bike did Rumanian gymnastics
    a) from hell;
    b) on steroids;
    c) in a super high-octane 12 000 rmp death-dance;
    d) all of the above;
    into the GP track wall, but he slid on his back (kevlar and carbon
    fibre, prolly) along the track for a while, then levered himself up to
    stand up at maybe 200 km/h, sparks spitting out from the stainess steel
    soles of his Moto GP boots, until he came to a standstill. Hmmm. Maybe
    he went to the wet bar, and bought a few Mountain Goats. (I Goat, and I
    vote ;-) )

    Physics and luck, possums.

    Maybe we should just catch the tram...

    xxx

    ppp
     
  20. fred_nieman

    fred_nieman Guest

    Why does Mozilla/Ozemail always send this to the wrong post? Grrrrrrrrrr!
     
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