Club tactics

Discussion in 'Your Bloody Soap Box' started by Brizza, Jun 21, 2003.

  1. Brizza

    Brizza New Member

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    I was in a race which combinned 2 local clubs today.
    During the race (B Grade) their where blatant club tacics of blooking for other riders.
    We started with 35 riders and over 48km averaged 39kph, it was fast and good training :cool:, I finished 5th after leading out the sprint.
    We had a few bunches go off the front, and it was clear that the riders at the front of the pack where blocking or sitting second wheel on someone who was working. We didn't catch the pair who lead for the final lap.
    I'm guessing that these tactics are more common in larger clubs in cities, but they stike me as anti competitive, if you're not there to win, why are are you there?

    At the presentation nobody clapped 1st or 2nd, I was a bit disapointed.

    Can riders from larger clubs inform me if I am being unreasonable to expect a competive outcome from a local race.
     
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  2. Sidi

    Sidi New Member

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    I think you better get used to it this happens at the proffesional level alot.
     
  3. Brizza

    Brizza New Member

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    It still happens when these two clubs combine, and sometimes we do 17kph down the main straight as no-one is prepared to chase the breakaway. I have moved up a grade to avoid these tactics, while I don't finish I have a hard testing ride and I feel like I accomplished something by entering.

    What is your method of getting around these tactics?

    Brian
     
  4. shaneo

    shaneo New Member

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    Brizza

    Get hold of a few pro race video tapes and watch very closely.

    You will see these tactics at every level of racing......in every town....etc..etc

    Only way to beat it.....good legs = good tactics

    if you are being out- teamed by other riders.....you need to team up with a few people and counter the opposition....sometimes other riders will see what is happening and join you mid race to counter the 'team' riders.....might mean you have to sacrifice yourself to get another rider down the road....but if he wins and they dont......it is the next best thing to winning yourself

    but if you dont have the legs to overcome them......not much you can do except identify their main rider and try and cover his moves.....this way if he gets down the road and you are on his wheel....when they block for him....they are also blocking for you...

    and get back to 'B' grade and win a few before you waste your time getting busted off in 'A' grade......you should be racing to get a result.....not to act as canon fodder....

    and dont get negative about this style of racing....see it as a challenge to overcome and apply yourself each race to counter their moves.....

    shaneo
     
  5. Brizza

    Brizza New Member

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    I think these tactics are commbined with the fatc that our clubs have a large number of sprinters who like to sit in and sprint at the end.

    On that particular race my club was out numbered 5:1 and working together probably wouldn't have changed the club outcome.

    I'm buying a new bike soon so I hope that I can be more successful in breakaways. My old RSX Giant has died and I'm training on my Easton Elite Sintessi time trialing to build some leg strength.

    I'll work on building an alliance with the strong (distance) riders in the other club.

    Brian
     
  6. shaneo

    shaneo New Member

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    What you have described is completely universal.....Our B grade crits are loaded with sprinters.....they tend to unite and pull the race together and then it is one huge (often messy) sprint for the finish....as a result the racing often tends to be negative for those who try to break away....

    I had a mate who couldn't sprint well.....every week he would attack to try and ride away.....every week he would get pulled in by the bunch.....and he would try again.....same result.....they would pull him back in again....man he had some guts!!!!!

    eventually it worked.....they let him slide off the bunch in the club champs.....all the sprinters (me included) were foxing to keep our legs as fresh as possible.....when it came time to reel him in.....it was to late.......he made it to the line for the big one!!!!

    in other words keep trying!!!!
     
  7. bioguy

    bioguy New Member

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    I've only ever _watched_ bike racing (on TV, and a few local races). Are there rules against these things that just aren't being enforced? I just assumed that team tactics were part of the race. In fact, I find this part to be the really interesting part. It's more mental.
     
  8. el Ingles

    el Ingles New Member

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    GAMESMANSHIP : the art of winning without actually cheating .

    Get used to it , it´s up to you to race as a team ; you can´t expect other people to help you win nor stop people taking advantage of your efforts , it´s devil take the highmost as in all " sports " these days .
    Probablely was in the past as well truth be known ..... atleast you know better now , or do you ?
    nil carborundum illigitimus
     
  9. xc_gumby

    xc_gumby New Member

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    I reckon its pretty poor if you're at a interclub & there's two clubs racing as a team. You'd expect the racing would be more individual.

    At the lower divisions where I race, nobody works & everybody is trying to hide.

    I've seen open races where the biggest club there fails to get someone on the podium.
     
  10. donhix1

    donhix1 New Member

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    I think there thinking is that if I block for a teammate one day, then when I am off the front then that teammate will block for me.

    When I lived in Idaho there was one dominate team and they would block, chase down riders anything to make sure one of their teammates would win. THey would toy with riders leaving riders off the front about 400 yards knowing they could bring them back when they wanted. They always won the big races and almost all of the others. THe only races they didn't win was the big purse races that brought teams from out of state.

    We hated those guys but there was nothing we could do and they weren't doing anything illegal, in fact they were actually pretty nice guys.
     
  11. Brizza

    Brizza New Member

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    I can see that such tactics are common amongst friends and rival clubs but I still think it reduces the quality of the win.

    I have choosen my club according to the quality of ride and lack of bunch tactics rather than the quality of riders. I'm with a family atmosphere club with lots of vibrant youth and experienced vetrans. Occassionaly I miss the local pro's, but I ride harder and faster if I'm enjoying the race.

    Push on

    Brian
     
  12. el Ingles

    el Ingles New Member

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    A few years ago one of the lesser teams ( mercury I think ) was leading the Tour Down Under and all they did was complain that the other teams were leaving all the work to them .
    It´s racing ; if it´s legal it´s ok but if you don´t enjoy being beaten then look at other types of competion ¿ do you time trial ?
    or just ride with mates , you have to find what suits you , and it sounds like it ain´t racing .
     
  13. Brizza

    Brizza New Member

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    Typically I'm a worker, I enjoy riding hard and wearing the bunchdown before the sprint, when I watch riders avoiding the front I assume they are saving themselves for the sprint, but when they do that from the first km and I can't drop them I get annoyed.

    That particular ride the bunch was ridiuclasly slow and I should have put together a group of riders to chase them down.

    Although I had a similar ride on Sat. We had some visitors who didn't want to work, and after being passed by B Grade in the first lap :eek: I launched a few attacks to get them working. The attacks worked and I had a strong race and finished second :( , however I will be stronger next week ;)

    I think it's a case of learning how to deal with the tactics.

    Brian
     
  14. el Ingles

    el Ingles New Member

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    Yes , as always " too many indians and not enough chiefs "
     
  15. Brizza

    Brizza New Member

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    Has anyone else been successful in dealing with wheelsucker type?

    I've found riding a pub bike from the rubbish dump can help. By spending lots of time (or moving to the front) at the front you can embaress the posers and you rattle and creak in the bunch.

    It's also good training to be able to race on a peice of lead as you learn to read the movements/surges in the bunch, and the breaks hurt more too ;)

    Any other methods for dealing with wheelsuckers?

    Brian
     
  16. JuneBug

    JuneBug New Member

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    Hey this video is fun. speaking of racing videos. some guy tapes a camera to his head and rides in a real crit. My husband loves to train to this because its about an hour long and the 'real time' cadence makes you go harder on teh bike. The man talks about tactics. But its probably a little simple and not detailed enough for what you really need.
    still . It is a cheap and fun video for the trainer.

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/feb04/langkawi04/index.php?id=01/Img_8033
     
  17. JuneBug

    JuneBug New Member

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  18. Brizza

    Brizza New Member

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    I understand race tactics, the first post was after race where 80-90% of the riders in the bunch had no interest in winning the race. Putting a chase group together was going to be very difficult.

    I'm working on my time trial ability so that I am not at the mercy of the other riders when I plan my race.

    Brian
     
  19. flysolo1

    flysolo1 New Member

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    yeah slam the brakes and then he will either have to pass you or slow down

    the idea is to situate yourself for the end if you cant break away then work as little as possible to have a sprint and find the wheel always remember most of the guys in the end are either very strong or sprinters forget wearing the group you are only wearing yourself more guys can work together and tire you out before you tire them and being the 3 or 4 guy back is still to foward in the group be smart when you ride not strong you will never be the strongest guy out there
     
  20. Brizza

    Brizza New Member

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    Sounds like you are sayingI should adopt the same tactic as the sprinters, don't do any work, just have a slow race and sprint with the other fresh sprinters.

    If you go to the front and work hard you will build your ability to ride hard, then you won't need to take the attitude
    Sorry I'm not a sprinter and sometimes I am the strongest rider out there. I prefer to push hard, drop the sprinters and finish the sprint with only a few other strong riders. I may not win this week or next week, but I will be a hell strong rider in a few months.

    I've had trouble with being swamped by sprinters at the end and have more sucess running them into the ground before the sprint.
    ie. three man breakaway, you've at least got 3rd, and if they catch you, you know you've had a hard/building race.

    Good Luck with the sprints, I wish I had sprinters legs (sometimes)

    Brian
     
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