CO 2 leaking thru tires

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by marco007esq, Jan 20, 2005.

  1. marco007esq

    marco007esq Guest

    Is this true? Co2 leaks through tires? I've never heard that before.


    Any gurus wanna confirm or deny? What, is a Co2 molecule smaller than
    an O2 molecule? Huh? Any alpha-geeks wanna tell me how this is
    possible. (Alpha Geek is a term of respect, not derision)
     
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  2. Bill Baka

    Bill Baka Guest

    marco007esq wrote:
    > Is this true? Co2 leaks through tires? I've never heard that before.
    >
    >
    > Any gurus wanna confirm or deny? What, is a Co2 molecule smaller than
    > an O2 molecule? Huh? Any alpha-geeks wanna tell me how this is
    > possible. (Alpha Geek is a term of respect, not derision)
    >

    A CO2 molecule is bigger since it has a Carbon attached. Any decent tube
    should be able to hold Helium, right above Hydrogen, which is nasty
    stuff to breath and explosive with O2. I have also never heard that CO2
    leaks. Use Helium and you will shave a few grams off of your bike. Just
    watch out the tires don't float away.
    I had to put that in for the 'every last gram' and 'carbon fiber' guys.
    Bill Baka
     
  3. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    Bill Baka wrote:

    > marco007esq wrote:
    >> Is this true? Co2 leaks through tires? I've never heard that
    >> before.
    >>
    >>
    >> Any gurus wanna confirm or deny? What, is a Co2 molecule smaller
    >> than an O2 molecule? Huh? Any alpha-geeks wanna tell me how this is
    >> possible. (Alpha Geek is a term of respect, not derision)
    >>

    > A CO2 molecule is bigger since it has a Carbon attached. Any decent
    > tube should be able to hold Helium, right above Hydrogen, which is
    > nasty stuff to breath and explosive with O2. I have also never heard
    > that CO2 leaks. Use Helium and you will shave a few grams off of your
    > bike. Just watch out the tires don't float away.
    > I had to put that in for the 'every last gram' and 'carbon fiber'
    > guys. Bill Baka


    This was discussed a few weeks ago in rec.bicycles.*. Google has the answer.

    Matt O.
     
  4. On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:34:03 -0800, Bill Baka wrote:

    > marco007esq wrote:
    >> Is this true? Co2 leaks through tires? I've never heard that before.
    >>
    >>
    >> Any gurus wanna confirm or deny? What, is a Co2 molecule smaller than
    >> an O2 molecule? Huh? Any alpha-geeks wanna tell me how this is
    >> possible. (Alpha Geek is a term of respect, not derision)
    >>

    > A CO2 molecule is bigger since it has a Carbon attached. Any decent tube
    > should be able to hold Helium, right above Hydrogen, which is nasty
    > stuff to breath and explosive with O2. I have also never heard that CO2
    > leaks.


    Then you hear it here first. I've consistently noticed that tires pumped
    up with a CO2 inflater go soft faster. It's not just the size of the
    molecule, but how it interacts with the tube.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | "What am I on? I'm on my bike, six hours a day, busting my ass.
    _`\(,_ | What are you on?" --Lance Armstrong
    (_)/ (_) |
     
  5. How can you tell?
    I am always pumping up my tires, they always are down a little before a
    ride.
    If I have to let it sit for too long they get really low or flat even.

    "marco007esq" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Is this true? Co2 leaks through tires? I've never heard that before.
    >
    >
    > Any gurus wanna confirm or deny? What, is a Co2 molecule smaller than
    > an O2 molecule? Huh? Any alpha-geeks wanna tell me how this is
    > possible. (Alpha Geek is a term of respect, not derision)
    >
     
  6. Steve Knight

    Steve Knight Guest

    On 20 Jan 2005 14:08:30 -0800, "marco007esq" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Is this true? Co2 leaks through tires? I've never heard that before.
    >
    >
    >Any gurus wanna confirm or deny? What, is a Co2 molecule smaller than
    >an O2 molecule? Huh? Any alpha-geeks wanna tell me how this is
    >possible. (Alpha Geek is a term of respect, not derision)


    yes it does. you may get a couple of days worth before it looses pressure. but
    it's far faster at leaking then air.

    --
    Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
    Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
    See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
     
  7. Bert L.am

    Bert L.am Guest

    "Bill Baka" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    news:[email protected]
    > marco007esq wrote:
    > > Is this true? Co2 leaks through tires? I've never heard that before.
    > >
    > >
    > > Any gurus wanna confirm or deny? What, is a Co2 molecule smaller than
    > > an O2 molecule? Huh? Any alpha-geeks wanna tell me how this is
    > > possible. (Alpha Geek is a term of respect, not derision)
    > >

    > A CO2 molecule is bigger since it has a Carbon attached. Any decent tube
    > should be able to hold Helium, right above Hydrogen, which is nasty
    > stuff to breath and explosive with O2. I have also never heard that CO2
    > leaks. Use Helium and you will shave a few grams off of your bike. Just
    > watch out the tires don't float away.
    > I had to put that in for the 'every last gram' and 'carbon fiber' guys.
    > Bill Baka



    CO2 molecules are smaller than 02 ones, therefore they will leak through the
    tube faster. Also the C02 goes into chemical reaction with the rubber or
    butyl as your local brewer will confirm, since he needs to replace the
    rubber or butyl filling of the clinchers in the brewery equipment.

    So when you return home after a CO2 refill during a training always deflate
    your tires and use a 02 pump.

    Bert


    --
    Posted by news://news.nb.nu
     
  8. jj

    jj Guest

    On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 09:25:51 +0100, "Bert L.am" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"Bill Baka" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    >news:[email protected]
    >> marco007esq wrote:
    >> > Is this true? Co2 leaks through tires? I've never heard that before.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Any gurus wanna confirm or deny? What, is a Co2 molecule smaller than
    >> > an O2 molecule? Huh? Any alpha-geeks wanna tell me how this is
    >> > possible. (Alpha Geek is a term of respect, not derision)
    >> >

    >> A CO2 molecule is bigger since it has a Carbon attached. Any decent tube
    >> should be able to hold Helium, right above Hydrogen, which is nasty
    >> stuff to breath and explosive with O2. I have also never heard that CO2
    >> leaks. Use Helium and you will shave a few grams off of your bike. Just
    >> watch out the tires don't float away.
    >> I had to put that in for the 'every last gram' and 'carbon fiber' guys.
    >> Bill Baka

    >
    >
    >CO2 molecules are smaller than 02 ones, therefore they will leak through the
    >tube faster. Also the C02 goes into chemical reaction with the rubber or
    >butyl as your local brewer will confirm, since he needs to replace the
    >rubber or butyl filling of the clinchers in the brewery equipment.
    >
    >So when you return home after a CO2 refill during a training always deflate
    >your tires and use a 02 pump.
    >
    >Bert


    ....eyeing his grandfather's oxygen tank; thinking about that helium tank at
    the mall... ;-)

    jj
     
  9. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Bert L.am" <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    > "Bill Baka" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    > news:[email protected]
    >> marco007esq wrote:
    >> > Is this true? Co2 leaks through tires? I've never heard that before.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Any gurus wanna confirm or deny? What, is a Co2 molecule smaller than
    >> > an O2 molecule? Huh? Any alpha-geeks wanna tell me how this is
    >> > possible. (Alpha Geek is a term of respect, not derision)
    >> >

    >> A CO2 molecule is bigger since it has a Carbon attached. Any decent tube
    >> should be able to hold Helium, right above Hydrogen, which is nasty
    >> stuff to breath and explosive with O2. I have also never heard that CO2
    >> leaks. Use Helium and you will shave a few grams off of your bike. Just
    >> watch out the tires don't float away.
    >> I had to put that in for the 'every last gram' and 'carbon fiber' guys.
    >> Bill Baka

    >
    >
    > CO2 molecules are smaller than 02 ones, therefore they will leak through the
    > tube faster. Also the C02 goes into chemical reaction with the rubber or
    > butyl as your local brewer will confirm, since he needs to replace the
    > rubber or butyl filling of the clinchers in the brewery equipment.
    >
    > So when you return home after a CO2 refill during a training always deflate
    > your tires and use a 02 pump.


    It seems to me that plain, ordinary air as would be typically
    pumped into an inner tube is a mixture of several gases, mostly
    molecular nitrogen gas (N2).


    cheers,
    Tom

    --
    -- Nothing is safe from me.
    Above address is just a spam midden.
    I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
     
  10. Earl Bollinger wrote:

    > How can you tell?
    > I am always pumping up my tires, they always are down a little before a
    > ride.
    > If I have to let it sit for too long they get really low or flat even.
    >
    > "marco007esq" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> Is this true? Co2 leaks through tires? I've never heard that before.
    >>
    >>
    >> Any gurus wanna confirm or deny? What, is a Co2 molecule smaller than
    >> an O2 molecule? Huh? Any alpha-geeks wanna tell me how this is
    >> possible. (Alpha Geek is a term of respect, not derision)


    I have tried it. It does. It take a few days before your tire looks as it
    had another flat...

    --
    Jørn Dahl-Stamnes
    http://www.dahl-stamnes.net/dahls/index.php
     
  11. Fred Hall

    Fred Hall Guest

    "Bert L.am" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    >
    > CO2 molecules are smaller than 02 ones, therefore they will leak through

    the
    > tube faster. Also the C02 goes into chemical reaction with the rubber or
    > butyl as your local brewer will confirm, since he needs to replace the
    > rubber or butyl filling of the clinchers in the brewery equipment.
    >
    > So when you return home after a CO2 refill during a training always

    deflate
    > your tires and use a 02 pump.
    >
    > Bert
    >


    CO2 is NOT smaller than O2 for crying out loud...where do you get that from?
    How does ADDING a carbon atom make the group of 1 carbon and 2 oxygen atoms
    smaller than just 2 oxygen atoms?

    Anyway, you can't compare CO2 to O2 in a bike tire because you don't
    normally fill a bike tire with O2...you fill it with air, which is heavily
    weighted with nitrogen (as someone pointed out earlier)
     
  12. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Fred Hall" <[email protected]> writes:

    > CO2 is NOT smaller than O2 for crying out loud...where do you get that from?


    I consider the possibility that it may be.

    > How does ADDING a carbon atom make the group of 1 carbon and 2 oxygen atoms
    > smaller than just 2 oxygen atoms?


    Perhaps the type of bonding between component atoms has
    something to do with it? I forget most of the chemistry
    I ever learned, though. But maybe a CO2 molecule is bound
    by electron sharing, and maybe an O2 molecule is covalently
    bound, and maybe the latter type of bonding occupies more
    space than the former? But I dunno for sure, and I don't
    really feel like looking it up right now. But I'm not gonna
    bet on a 3-atom molecule taking up more space than a 2-atom
    one, just because it has more atoms in it.

    Anyhow, I suspect an inner tube filled with plain air lets
    gas molecules seep through less than one filled with a
    single gas because the variety of diverse molecules (and
    perhaps some somewhat larger particulates) in ordinary air
    might tend to 'log jam' up against the wall of the inner
    tube better than the consistently sized/shaped molecules
    of a single gas. I'm not certain about that, though; I'm
    just guessing.



    cheers,
    Tom

    --
    -- Nothing is safe from me.
    Above address is just a spam midden.
    I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
     
  13. Leo Lichtman

    Leo Lichtman Guest

    "Tom Keats" wrote: (clip) I'm not certain about that, though; I'm just
    guessing.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    It's really very simple: oxygen has negative volume. I'm not guessing, I'm
    joking.
     
  14. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Leo Lichtman" <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    > "Tom Keats" wrote: (clip) I'm not certain about that, though; I'm just
    > guessing.
    > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    > It's really very simple: oxygen has negative volume. I'm not guessing, I'm
    > joking.


    .... <Grin>

    I'm obviously in this over my head. So I'm just gonna
    bow out, head over to Duffins Donuts, and get a $3 pack
    of day-olds for breakfast tomorrow.


    cheers,
    Tom

    --
    -- Nothing is safe from me.
    Above address is just a spam midden.
    I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
     
  15. Alfred Ryder

    Alfred Ryder Guest

    "Tom Keats" wrote
    [clip]

    > Anyhow, I suspect an inner tube filled with plain air lets
    > gas molecules seep through less than one filled with a
    > single gas because the variety of diverse molecules (and
    > perhaps some somewhat larger particulates) in ordinary air
    > might tend to 'log jam' up against the wall of the inner
    > tube better than the consistently sized/shaped molecules
    > of a single gas. I'm not certain about that, though; I'm
    > just guessing.
    >


    I had a flat yesterday and once again noticed a curious phenomenon.
    Immediately after filling the tire with CO2, the tire felt over pressured.
    Really hard. Then after getting home, the tire was not so hard. Is it
    possible that the CO2 cartridges have some helium in with the CO2? My guess
    is that it is either helium or I am imagining the phenomenon.

    Anyone else notice it?
     
  16. Leo Lichtman

    Leo Lichtman Guest

    "Alfred Ryder" wrote: (clip) Really hard. Then after getting home, the tire
    was not so hard. (clip)
    ^^^^^^^^^^^
    Not helium--Viagra.
     
  17. Bill Sornson

    Bill Sornson Guest

    Alfred Ryder wrote:
    > I had a flat yesterday and once again noticed a curious phenomenon.
    > Immediately after filling the tire with CO2, the tire felt over
    > pressured. Really hard. Then after getting home, the tire was not so
    > hard. Is it possible that the CO2 cartridges have some helium in with
    > the CO2? My guess is that it is either helium or I am imagining the
    > phenomenon.
    >
    > Anyone else notice it?


    Maybe your tube has a small leak.
     
  18. [email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote in
    news:p[email protected]:

    >
    > I'm obviously in this over my head. So I'm just gonna
    > bow out, head over to Duffins Donuts, and get a $3 pack
    > of day-olds for breakfast tomorrow.
    >

    Tom by that time they will be 2 days old and that is waaay past their
    best-before date.
     
  19. Bill Baka

    Bill Baka Guest

    Tom Keats wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "Fred Hall" <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    >
    >>CO2 is NOT smaller than O2 for crying out loud...where do you get that from?

    >
    >
    > I consider the possibility that it may be.
    >
    >
    >>How does ADDING a carbon atom make the group of 1 carbon and 2 oxygen atoms
    >>smaller than just 2 oxygen atoms?

    >
    >
    > Perhaps the type of bonding between component atoms has
    > something to do with it? I forget most of the chemistry
    > I ever learned, though. But maybe a CO2 molecule is bound
    > by electron sharing, and maybe an O2 molecule is covalently
    > bound, and maybe the latter type of bonding occupies more
    > space than the former? But I dunno for sure, and I don't
    > really feel like looking it up right now. But I'm not gonna
    > bet on a 3-atom molecule taking up more space than a 2-atom
    > one, just because it has more atoms in it.


    Yeah, I don't have my old chemistry book either and same goes for me
    about forgetting more than I remember. Maybe the Carbon molecule just
    bonds really tight with the two Oxygens. College was sooo long ago.
    >
    > Anyhow, I suspect an inner tube filled with plain air lets
    > gas molecules seep through less than one filled with a
    > single gas because the variety of diverse molecules (and
    > perhaps some somewhat larger particulates) in ordinary air
    > might tend to 'log jam' up against the wall of the inner
    > tube better than the consistently sized/shaped molecules
    > of a single gas. I'm not certain about that, though; I'm
    > just guessing.


    I would be also, since in plain old air the CO2 is an insignificant
    amount compared to the 80% Nitrogen and 19.9% Oxygen. Everything else is
    pretty much a trace element, with enough CO2 for plants to survive and
    some water vapor.
    >
    >
    >
    > cheers,
    > Tom
    >

    Now I may be hunting for my College Chemistry book.
    Bill Baka
     
  20. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Mike Latondresse <[email protected]_spam_shaw.ca> writes:

    >> I'm obviously in this over my head. So I'm just gonna
    >> bow out, head over to Duffins Donuts, and get a $3 pack
    >> of day-olds for breakfast tomorrow.
    >>

    > Tom by that time they will be 2 days old and that is waaay past their
    > best-before date.


    Sometimes I like 'em a li'l crunchy. Anyways, they
    were sold out by the time I got there so I came home
    empty-handed. Brunch consisted of clam chowder and
    (pink) salmon sandwiches instead.


    cheers,
    Tom

    --
    -- Nothing is safe from me.
    Above address is just a spam midden.
    I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
     
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