CO2 Cartridge Froze and Cracked My Inner Tube

[Dansky]

Being tired of the non-Springlike weather here near Chicago, I have just been going out anyway, and imagining it's actually nice and warm lately.

Ran over a small thin nail at my turnaround point today, then had an issue trying to refill a new tube with my CO2 cartridge. I've changed many flats, and never seen this before. After I replaced the tube, I shot a very short burst of CO2 into the tube to check that the tube and tire were seated properly; squeezing gently along the tire to do so.

I felt a "solid" area about an inch from the valve, and it seemed that the tube had actually frozen up a bit from the CO2 burst - even the valve stem had turned pretty frosty in that brief second. Seen that many times, and it didn't strike me as any sort of issue.It was only 40 degrees out there, not bad at all.

Naturally, I squeezed the lump area, and heard a bit of a crackle inside, not realizing that the tube itself was splitting apart. Made for a rather short ride today, as I didn't have a spare spare.

Has anybody else had this happen before? Thoughts, advice and general observations are most welcome.

 

[maydog]

Nope, and I have inflated tires using CO2 in even colder weather.

When you were inflating, what orientation was the valve. Top of the wheel facing down, or bottom of the wheel facing up or somewhere in between?

 

[Dansky]

Good question. I had the wheel off, and think I had the valve oriented so that it may have been pointing down or even horizontal, as I was just trying to shoot a really small burst of CO2 into the tube for the initial tube placement check.

I'm assuming that was what yielded the excessive icy result.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

I see your problem.

"MADE IN TAIWAN"

That had to have been a defective tube.

 

[Dansky]

Bob, I actually was expecting you to say that.

Got in a better ride today out there, wind and all.

 

[Froze]

I see your problem, err problems that is. First you didn't carry a backup tube. Second you used CO2...or at least you didn't have one of those hybrid pump/CO2 units like this: http://www.lezyne.com/products/co2-systems/cfh-pumps so you could go to a pump if you run out of CO2 air but that wouldn't have done you any good in this case because by golly you didn't have a spare tube! Third it sounds like you had the CO2 device oriented incorrectly, the injector needs to be facing upright, if you do it upside down then liquid CO2 dumps into the tube and freezes the valve and or tube near the valve, and you need to release the CO2 slowly if your's will allow that.

This is just a personal opinion, I see no need to carry a CO2 inflator unless I was racing, otherwise it's a waste of money because you have to buy CO2 carts all the time when buying a plain pump allows you to use free air. Also CO2 air bleeds through the tube far faster than normal air so when you get home you should drain all the air out and refill with regular air...what a waste of time not to mention the money spent on the CO2 cart. And what happens if your riding with a friend and he has a flat but has a problem with his CO2? do you loan yours with the risk of knowing you might need it? Some people say that they take 2 carts just to be safe, what if you have 3 flats? or you screw up using one? or thought you fixed it right only to find you didn't or another hole you didn't see? It's great when I'm out riding and I see a rider stuck on the side of the road with a flat, that's when I sometimes notice they were trying to use a inflator and failed, so I show off by helping them with a pump.

And as a side note, make sure you know how to patch a tube on the side of the road, because you could flat your backup tube someday then what?

 

[maydog]

Each is entitled to their own opinion.

Everyone I ride with carries CO2. I bought bulk cartriges for less than $0.30 a pop. I always have at least two with me on a ride and have a frame pump as a backup. Knock on wood, but I have not yet needed to use the pump once I switched to CO2.

You do need to air up again once you get home, but that is a trivial matter with a decent pump. Most people top off every few days anyway.

Perhaps others experience is different, but I cannot get to my normal riding pressue using the small pumps. It is a PITA to get up to even a decent pressure, it you don't break the valve before then. CO2 has the advantage of speed and convenience, for which I am willing to pay. A few minutes is important when changing a tube in freezing temperatures or when the whole group is waiting for you.

 

[dhk2]

Agree with maydog here, prefer CO2 to carrying a pump on local rides. I use the 12 gm unthreaded cartridges, buy at Walmart or anyplace that sells paintball supplies. Haven't had to fill a tire on the road in the last couple of years, so the cost is moot. If I had a problem with punctures, guess I'd go back to carrying the Zefal frame pump, but if that were the case, better to change to tougher tires.

Was a cool science experiment that Dansky did though. By not holding the inflator nozzle higher than the bottom of the cartridge, he got liquid CO2 to flow out into the tube, instantly freezing to -109F lump of solid (dry ice) when exposed to normal air pressure, then sublimating back into a gas after it ruined the tube. Cool trick, as long as it's not done with my inner tube.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Butyl rubber easily has a usable service temperature down to -70°F. I have never bothered to remember if my inflator nozzle is above or below the bottom of the CO2 cartridge or if the tube's valve stem was at 6 o'clock, 12 o'clock or 4 in the afternoon, but I've never had a tube go to **** while blasting it with a 16 gram frostie.

Yeah, my tubes are all made in Taiwan or China. Bontragers are known for stem base failures and I've had more than a few fail in that location.

I carry a micro pump and patch kit...just in case. Double punctures suck and not finding the piece of rust flake that got your first tube and two miles later bit your spare spare...sucks worse.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Quote by Maydog:
"A few minutes is important when changing a tube in freezing temperatures or when the whole group is waiting for you."

Werd, yo!

Literally, frostbite is only minutes away. If with a group in cold weather we 'team' pit stop the puncture. One guy digs for tire irons/tube/CO2. Another guy pulls the wheel off the bike and holds the frame or lays it down carefully. Somebodys gets un-gloved and goes to work peeling the tire. The faster the gloves are back on and everybody is rolling, the better.

 

[ambal]

Originally Posted by Froze
I see your problem, err problems that is. First you didn't carry a backup tube. Second you used CO2...or at least you didn't have one of those hybrid pump/CO2 units like this: http://www.lezyne.com/products/co2-systems/cfh-pumps so you could go to a pump if you run out of CO2 air but that wouldn't have done you any good in this case because by golly you didn't have a spare tube! Third it sounds like you had the CO2 device oriented incorrectly, the injector needs to be facing upright, if you do it upside down then liquid CO2 dumps into the tube and freezes the valve and or tube near the valve, and you need to release the CO2 slowly if your's will allow that.

Yeah these things are a great idea, good insurance i reckon.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

And his screen name is...uh...prophetic.

 

[dhk2]

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB

Yeah, my tubes are all made in Taiwan or China. Bontragers are known for stem base failures and I've had more than a few fail in that location.

I've had the same stem base failures on Bontrager tubes, but didn't know it was a common problem. The Trek LBS used to sell them 3/$10, but since they only lasted about 6 months for me, not a very good deal at all. When I finally coughed up the big bucks for a Conti tube, the difference in the thickness and bonding at the stem base was obvious. Problem solved.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

I have had good results with Continental and Michelin tubes.

 

[Froze]

There are some mini pumps that aren't worth a damn, but there are others that are like the Topeak Race Rocket HP and the Lezyne Road Drive, both of those I own and have no problem getting to 100 psi. Which of the two do I prefer? it's a draw! Some like one and some like the other it's personal opinion again, but I don't see anything glaring of one over the other, they both work great and are really well made; and for fun I've actually tried to get to 120 psi and actually made it, they both were semi difficult to get past 105 or so but not real difficult. Specialized makes a new one called the Airtool Road Flex but I don't own one so I can't report on it, and it's too new because I couldn't find any reviews on it but it looks promising. All three of the above pumps use a self contained air hose which prevents you from putting too much strain on the valve stem and possibly tearing it which todays tubes are more prone to doing because they have eliminated the reinforcement washer or thicker rubber at the base of the valve to save a penny a tube. Some mini's are just too small and takes an ungodly amount of strokes to get just up to around 75 psi then it takes a lot of effort to get past that to your normal psi if you make it all!

The Lezyne Road Drive comes in three sizes, I wouldn't recommend the smaller size because it will take more strokes and probably get real difficult once you get past 75 psi or so, I got the medium size and that's the one I know that works great, and I'm sure the larger size works better but it's about 11 inches long vs almost 9 for the medium, but at 11 inches it's still smaller than the Topeak Road Morph I mention below. And you get them in white, silver, or black.

One semi mini pump that is extremely easy to use and pump up to even 120psi is the Topeak Road Morph, it has a fold out foot peg and fold out handle L that converts the pump into a mini floor pump. I own this one too and love it, but it's large and ungainly looking on a road bike, but if your upper body strength is a little lacking this is a great pump for ease of effort. The G model even comes with a PSI gauge which is not extremely accurate but mine is about 3 psi off which is nothing really and easy to compensate for once you know which direction it's off. I use it strictly on my touring bike because of the larger tires takes more air to get to the psi I want, and a larger pump makes getting there a lot quicker.

The Lezyne hybrid pump, CO2 combined with a pump, I know works great as a pump too because a friend of mine has one.

I have another pump I love too but it's not made anymore called the SKS Carbon Raceday but it doesn't have a hose, I was raised on pumps without hoses so it's no big deal for me to use but for those that weren't raised on the older direct connect pumps it can be challenge not to tear the valve stem off the tube.

Of course all of this is just an opinion which should be obvious without me mentioning it.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Good review, Froze. Thanks!