COLD weather tire-tube repair?

[[email protected]]

DougC wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > Take a spare tube along and patch the holey one in a warm place like a
> > market or the like. Evaporation in cold dank places doesn't need any
> > wreck.bike scientific methods.
> >
>
> I bought this bike about 2 months ago, hadn't gotten around to "fully
> equipping" it yet because winter was upon my locale, and I didn't expect
> to be riding it much because I don't like riding much in the cold. I
> likely have some spare 26 x 1.5 tubes around somewhere at home, but I'd
> have to dig for them.
>
> >
> > Those patches have been discussed here endlessly and seem to be akin
> > to religion. Their use, as other patches, does not get better when
> > it's cold. On the other hand, I sense this is leading to the annual,
> > "I ride in colder and harsher weather than you!" competition... it was
> > so cold my chain wouldn't straighten out as it came off the derailleur
> > idler... etc.
> >
>
> I was asking because I stood in 45 F weather for 20 minutes waiting for
> the tire glue to dry enough to put the patch on. I assume there's no
> "drying" period with the self-adhesive patches--so if they hold on about
> as well, then there might be at least that much of an advantage to using
> them in cold weather. ....And I wouldn't have been out riding /at/
> /all/ if I could have driven my car, most likely.

Not to get started on the cold-weather pissing contest Jobst warned us
about, but 45F is not cold. Not even close. (I imagine/hope you don't
think of 45F as cold, but only saw it as a warning of things to come.)
If the glue wouldn't dry, perhaps it separated in the tube or
something, but I doubt the temperature had much to do with it unless
there was something wrong with the glue.

Joseph

 

[Pete Biggs]

[email protected] wrote:
> Doug C Imper writes:
......
>> As to what I ordered as /replacements/: a pair of Schwalbe Marathon
>> Plus, with thorn-resistant tubes (double thickness in the tread
>> area) as well.
>
> Brand names and tough sounding tire models do wonders for believers.

"SmartGuard puncture protection is a specially strong anti-puncture belt
that, a 5mm thick, even a thumbtack cannot penetrate."

- www.schwalbe.co.uk/shop.sfxp?page=product&id=1151&usmSID=466833-354-905

Picture with thumbtack in tyre: http://tinyurl.com/yfysxb

~PB

 

[DougC]

[email protected] wrote:
> .....
> Well it's not the casing and not the smooth tread, so what makes these
> tire have poor traction on wet roads? We've been through that often
> in this forum....

Well, I'd guess it has something to do with choosing a rubber formula
that was maximized for low rolling resistance.

> ...
> Less weight means less side forces. It's all relative and I don't
> mean your uncle Bob....

Well I should have noted--that on an asphalt/tar wet parking lot, I
could quite easily slide the locked front tire for short distances while
going /forward/ --not sideways. Granted the bike was new and the tire
pressures weren't set right but the tires did seem to be pretty easy to
slide (when wet) to me. I knew about this reputation already and could
have probably lived with that, until I got the flat tire and found how
thin the carcass of the Comets was....

>> As to what I ordered as /replacements/: a pair of Schwalbe Marathon
>> Plus, with thorn-resistant tubes (double thickness in the tread
>> area) as well.
>
> Brand names and tough sounding tire models do wonders for believers.
>
> Jobst Brandt

The Marathon Plus' have a rather thick belt of [puncture-resistant]
rubber around the tread area, where the center of the tread area of the
Comets is only /slightly/ thicker than the sidewalls (-I was not aware
of how t-h-i-n the tread area of the Comets was until I took the tire
off to fix the flat-). At the least, a sharp object would need to travel
through a lot more rubber in the Schwalbes to reach the tube than in the
Comets.
~

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
DougC <[email protected]> wrote:

> [email protected] wrote:
> > ..... Well it's not the casing and not the smooth tread, so what
> > makes these tire have poor traction on wet roads? We've been
> > through that often in this forum....
>
> Well, I'd guess it has something to do with choosing a rubber formula
> that was maximized for low rolling resistance.
>
> > ... Less weight means less side forces. It's all relative and I
> > don't mean your uncle Bob....
>
> Well I should have noted--that on an asphalt/tar wet parking lot, I
> could quite easily slide the locked front tire for short distances
> while going /forward/ --not sideways. Granted the bike was new and
> the tire pressures weren't set right but the tires did seem to be
> pretty easy to slide (when wet) to me. I knew about this reputation
> already and could have probably lived with that, until I got the flat
> tire and found how thin the carcass of the Comets was....

The Primos are designed as high performance tires for small wheels,
which means a thin, flexible casing and thin rubber tread. I ride these
tires and have used them for several years, and I do not find the
problems you reported. I've ridden them on many wet rides and have
never had problems with wet weather traction on any paved surface. Wet
wooden bridge decks and dirt, of course, were a different story.

I've got a couple of ideas about the experience you had in the parking
lot. First, it was a parking lot, so lots of oil, accumulated
particulates, etc on the asphalt which float on the water when it rains
and make a nice lubricating slurry. Second, you've got a bike with less
weight on the front tire due to the design, making the front tire easy
to skid. Third, you've for a bike with V-brakes which have poor
modulation IME, so they are easy to lock up.

In short, I don't think it was the tires.

> >> As to what I ordered as /replacements/: a pair of Schwalbe
> >> Marathon Plus, with thorn-resistant tubes (double thickness in the
> >> tread area) as well.
> >
> > Brand names and tough sounding tire models do wonders for
> > believers.
> >
> > Jobst Brandt
>
> The Marathon Plus' have a rather thick belt of [puncture-resistant]
> rubber around the tread area, where the center of the tread area of
> the Comets is only /slightly/ thicker than the sidewalls (-I was not
> aware of how t-h-i-n the tread area of the Comets was until I took
> the tire off to fix the flat-). At the least, a sharp object would
> need to travel through a lot more rubber in the Schwalbes to reach
> the tube than in the Comets. ~

Depends on what your priorities are. I prefer a comfortable, fast ride
and don't mind fixing the occasional flat. Other people hate getting
flats with a passion and will choose a heavy slow tire to minimize the
risk.

 

[Gary Young]

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 17:50:21 -0600, DougC wrote:
<snip>
>
> The bike came with Primo Comets, which aren't bad tires overall. They
> have a low rolling resistance, but they also have a pretty thin carcass
> (low puncture resistance) and are a semi-slick (very shallow) tread
> pattern. They are also rather /notorious/ for having low traction in wet
> weather. When I picked the bike up I noticed this also; while I was
> test-riding it on a wet asphalt parking lot from a low speed, I was able
> to inadvertently lock the front wheel up and slide on it.
>
If the tire was new, maybe the tread still had mold-release compound on
it.


> ...The bike has less weight on the front end (RANS Fusion) but this
> matter of slippery-when-wet Comets seems to be pretty common knowledge
> among recumbent riders. But then recumbents use a lot of tires that
> people riding common road and MTB's never see I suppose.
>
> As to what I ordered as /replacements/: a pair of Schwalbe Marathon
> Plus, with thorn-resistant tubes (double thickness in the tread area) as
> well.
> ~

 

[Michael Press]

In article
<[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> Matt O'Toole wrote:
> > On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 10:48:34 -0800, joseph.santaniello wrote:
> >
> > >> Note that flats are more common in the wet because wet rubber cuts
> > >> easier.
> >
> > > It has rained every day since Oct 17. Argh! And I belive they have
> > > chosen the gravel that they strew on the bike path (in lieu of actually
> > > doing something when it gets icy) for it's ability to penetrate bike
> > > tires.
> >
> > I have a theory that it's not sharp gravel that cuts bike tires, but
> > shards of glass that collect where the gravel does.
> >
>
> I'll take a short video of me picking out small sharp stones from my
> tires. The way gravel is liberally strewn around here, even NYC
> wouldn't have enough broken glass to contribute noticeably. The gravel
> here doesn't collect in places, it is ubiquitous.
>
> I do have a theory however that the worst of these stones are indeed
> not naturally occuring. They are discarded arrowheads fashioned by
> field mice.

Do these `field mice' have bushy tails and a
calculating expression? How many spokes in your front
wheel?

--
Michael Press

 

[[email protected]]

Michael Press wrote:
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > Matt O'Toole wrote:
> > > On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 10:48:34 -0800, joseph.santaniello wrote:
> > >
> > > >> Note that flats are more common in the wet because wet rubber cuts
> > > >> easier.
> > >
> > > > It has rained every day since Oct 17. Argh! And I belive they have
> > > > chosen the gravel that they strew on the bike path (in lieu of actually
> > > > doing something when it gets icy) for it's ability to penetrate bike
> > > > tires.
> > >
> > > I have a theory that it's not sharp gravel that cuts bike tires, but
> > > shards of glass that collect where the gravel does.
> > >
> >
> > I'll take a short video of me picking out small sharp stones from my
> > tires. The way gravel is liberally strewn around here, even NYC
> > wouldn't have enough broken glass to contribute noticeably. The gravel
> > here doesn't collect in places, it is ubiquitous.
> >
> > I do have a theory however that the worst of these stones are indeed
> > not naturally occuring. They are discarded arrowheads fashioned by
> > field mice.
>
> Do these `field mice' have bushy tails and a
> calculating expression? How many spokes in your front
> wheel?
>

They hide behind masks, and wear pants so I don't know. I have
calculated my spoke count so as to provide an effective barrier against
mouse-al penetration. This has the added benefit of keeping the wheel
from collapsing under the weight of my massive brain.

Joseph

 

[DougC]

Pete Biggs wrote:
>
> "SmartGuard puncture protection is a specially strong anti-puncture belt
> that, a 5mm thick, even a thumbtack cannot penetrate."
>

I got the bastards on. They are WAY thicker than the Comets.

I am always amazed how you can have a tire that seems to fit tightly
over the rim,,, and yet,,, while you are trying to seat the second side,
the first side will lift up and over the rim and start to fall off. How
does it fall OFF when it will not also fall ON???

And I can't get the damn rear on concentric, which looks odd because of
the reflective sidewalls (-the front seated perfectly concentric, and
the rims are the same brand+model...-). But it holds full pressure and
rides, so I'll probably leave it for a few days and give that problem
another try later.

The tire/tube combination is a lot heavier also. But for a short/medium
distance bicycle, somehow I don't think it will slow me down as much as
stopping to fix flat tires would.
~

 

[Dane Buson]

Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, DougC wrote:
>>
>> The Marathon Plus' have a rather thick belt of [puncture-resistant]
>> rubber around the tread area, where the center of the tread area of
>> the Comets is only /slightly/ thicker than the sidewalls (-I was not
>> aware of how t-h-i-n the tread area of the Comets was until I took
>> the tire off to fix the flat-). At the least, a sharp object would
>> need to travel through a lot more rubber in the Schwalbes to reach
>> the tube than in the Comets. ~
>
> Depends on what your priorities are. I prefer a comfortable, fast ride
> and don't mind fixing the occasional flat. Other people hate getting
> flats with a passion and will choose a heavy slow tire to minimize the
> risk.

Well, they certainly are heavy, but I wouldn't really categorize them as
slow. I'd guess I lose a little speed with them, but not enough to
noticably affect my commute time. I don't believe the rolling
resistance is as high as some of the other 'bulletproof' tires.

I'm rather fond of them, just because I have better things to do than
fix flats on my commute. The last flat I had to fix on the road was
over a year ago. Which coincidentally is when I started using the
Marathon Plus tires.

--
Dane Buson - [email protected]
"The GOP is the evil party, the Democrats are the stupid party, and
bipartisanship is when they join forces to do something both evil and
stupid." - Stephen Johnson