Columbus Niobium?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by holli, Nov 4, 2003.

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  1. holli

    holli New Member

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    My bikesponsor asked me which frame material I'd like to have next year and he said that Columbus has developed a new steel tubeset called Niobium. Does anyone know what kind of tubeset is Niobium? Is there any limits for weight or height of a rider? How is it with durability?

    Thanks for answers in advance.
     
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  2. DiabloScott

    DiabloScott New Member

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    Niobium is the name the USA uses for the element Columbium (get the connection to Columbus tubes?) Niobium is element number 41 - between zirconium and molybdenum on the periodic table. Alloys of niobium/columbium are used in nuclear reactors because of their low cross-section to thermal neutrons and niobium/columbium is also one of the best superconducting materials. Nothing I've seen makes me think it would offer anything to bike tube metallurgy.


    Could be niobium tubes are the best thing since clip-in pedals.

    Could be that Columbus just likes the way "niobium" sounds and there's no Nb actually in the tubes.

    Could be they added 0.001% Nb into their steel alloy recipe just to create something new for the marketing department and it has no function whatsoever.

    Could be there's no tubeset called Niobium at all and you're the victim of a joke.
     
  3. Bill K.

    Bill K. Guest

    It's one of their alloying agents in their Nivacrom tubesets. Nivacrom is "old news." It's been
    around for over 10 years. Ask for a Thermocrom tubeset. The've only been around for a few years. If
    you're only 150 pounds, you could get by with a Nivacrom tubeset. Otherwise they will have to use
    thicker tubes. With the Thermocrom, the tubes can be very thin, and still be just as strong.
    Thermocrom is the same as True Temper OX platinum or the older Reynolds 853.
     
  4. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    holli wrote:

    > My bikesponsor asked me which frame material I'd like to have next year and he said that Columbus
    > has developed a new steel tubeset called Niobium. Does anyone know what kind of tubeset is
    > Niobium? Is there any limits for weight or height of a rider? How is it with durability?
    >

    Niobium is another name for Columbium. It's a trace element common to today's steels used for
    bicycle frames.

    No, the old name Columbium is unrelated to the tube mill
    A.L.Columbo, SpA, which makes bicycle tube. Just a coincidence, as with our Mr Davidson's
    object of lust.

    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  5. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    > holli wrote:
    > > My bikesponsor asked me which frame material I'd like to have next year and he said that
    > > Columbus has developed a new steel tubeset called Niobium. Does anyone know what kind of
    > > tubeset is Niobium? Is there any limits for weight or height of a rider? How is it with
    > > durability? Thanks for answers in advance.
    >
    >
    >
    DiabloScott wrote:
    > Niobium is the name the USA uses for the element Columbium (get the connection to Columbus tubes?)
    > Niobium is element number 41 - between zirconium and molybdenum on the periodic table. Alloys of
    > niobium/columbium are used in nuclear reactors because of their low cross-section to thermal
    > neutrons and niobium/columbium is also one of the best superconducting materials. Nothing I've
    > seen makes me think it would offer anything to bike tube metallurgy.
    >
    >
    > Could be niobium tubes are the best thing since clip-in pedals.
    >
    > Could be that Columbus just likes the way "niobium" sounds and there's no Nb actually in
    > the tubes.
    >
    > Could be they added 0.001% Nb into their steel alloy recipe just to create something new for the
    > marketing department and it has no function whatsoever.
    >
    > Could be there's no tubeset called Niobium at all and you're the victim of a joke.

    Nicely done! I liked your reply better than my own!

    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  6. holli

    holli New Member

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    Could it be that Niobium is just a new tubeset in Thermacrom "family"? Niobium tubeset should be lighter than Ultrafoco.

    My sponsor was at EICMA expo in Milan and heard about that tubeset there, so Niobium shouldn't be any "urban legend".
     
  7. O. Simonsen

    O. Simonsen Guest

    DiabloScott <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > holli wrote:
    > > My bikesponsor asked me which frame material I'd like to have next year and he said that
    > > Columbus has developed a new steel tubeset called Niobium. Does anyone know what kind of
    > > tubeset is Niobium? Is there any limits for weight or height of a rider? How is it with
    > > durability? Thanks for answers in advance.
    >
    > Niobium is the name the USA uses for the element Columbium (get the connection to Columbus tubes?)
    > Niobium is element number 41 - between zirconium and molybdenum on the periodic table. Alloys of
    > niobium/columbium are used in nuclear reactors because of their low cross-section to thermal
    > neutrons and niobium/columbium is also one of the best superconducting materials. Nothing I've
    > seen makes me think it would offer anything to bike tube metallurgy.
    >
    >
    > Could be niobium tubes are the best thing since clip-in pedals.
    >
    > Could be that Columbus just likes the way "niobium" sounds and there's no Nb actually in
    > the tubes.
    >
    > Could be they added 0.001% Nb into their steel alloy recipe just to create something new for the
    > marketing department and it has no function whatsoever.
    >
    > Could be there's no tubeset called Niobium at all and you're the victim of a joke.

    They are not the only one using Niobium together with aluminum; http://66.182.4.55:80/rims.html

    regards Ove Simonsen
     
  8. Rik O'Shea

    Rik O'Shea Guest

    [email protected] (Bill K.) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > With the Thermocrom, the tubes can be very thin, and still be just as strong. Thermocrom is the
    > same as True Temper OX platinum or the older Reynolds 853.

    I understand that these steel tubes can be as thin as 0.4 or 0.38 mm for the top tube. I often
    wondered how dent resistent these thin steel tubes are ? For example Fort Frames offer a cyclo-cross
    frame using Columbus ultra-foco. When I did cyclo-cross a few years back the frames always took a
    good few knocks.
     
  9. holli-<< My sponsor was at EICMA expo in Milan and heard about that tubeset there, so Niobium
    shouldn't be any "urban legend". >><BR><BR>

    yep, everything said at these conferences and expos are the absolute truth....

    ;-lo

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  10. Todd Kuzma

    Todd Kuzma Guest

    Rik O'Shea wrote:
    > [email protected] (Bill K.) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >>With the Thermocrom, the tubes can be very thin, and still be just as strong. Thermocrom is the
    >>same as True Temper OX platinum or the older Reynolds 853.
    >
    >
    > I understand that these steel tubes can be as thin as 0.4 or 0.38 mm for the top tube. I often
    > wondered how dent resistent these thin steel tubes are ? For example Fort Frames offer a
    > cyclo-cross frame using Columbus ultra-foco. When I did cyclo-cross a few years back the frames
    > always took a good few knocks.

    They may be strong, even dent-resistant. However, these wonder alloys are the same as plain cromoly
    when it comes to stiffness. So, a frame built with extreme thin-walled tubing will not be as stiff
    as one built with a more standard wall thickness. If you are a lightweight rider and carry no gear,
    it might be suitable for you. Otherwise, you might find that such a frame is more subject to
    handling problems and high-speed shimmy.

    Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles Tullio's Big Dog Cyclery LaSalle, Il 815-223-1776
    http://www.heronbicycles.com http://www.tullios.com
     
  11. holli

    holli New Member

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    Well. I've ridden "chewing gum like" frames all my life. But if anyone gets some information about this Columbus Niobium tubeset and especially how "big" rider could ride it. How about Ultrafoco? Ultrafoco is at least available for sure.

    Almost forgot. I'm 183cm 73kg and I prefer to ride 55-56cm c-c(height) and 56-57cm c-c (lenght) frame. I don't "spare" my bike.
     
  12. boudreaux

    boudreaux New Member

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    Have you heard of oversize tubing?
     
  13. Todd Kuzma

    Todd Kuzma Guest

    boudreaux wrote:
    > Todd Kuzma wrote:
    >
    > > They may be strong, even dent-resistant. However, these wonder alloys are the same as plain
    > > cromoly when it comes to stiffness. So, a frame built with extreme thin-walled tubing will not
    > > be as stiff as one built with a more standard wall thickness. If you are a lightweight rider
    > > and carry no gear, it might be suitable for you. Otherwise, you might find that such a frame
    > > is more subject to handling problems and high-speed shimmy.
    >
    > Have you heard of oversize tubing?

    Of course. Just about all modern steel frames use it, but it doesn't change what I wrote above. If
    you have 2 tubes that are the same diameter and one has a thinner wall than the other, the
    thick-walled tube will be stiffer. It won't matter whether these tubes are Nivachrome, 853, 525, OX
    Platinum, Tange Prestige, EL-OS, or whatever.

    True Temper's new S3 tubing, developed with Waterford, uses an even larger diameter tube than the
    "oversized" tubing. Since no lugs are yet available for this size, it must be TIG-welded. The tubing
    is essentially a version of OX Platinum. The larger diameter allows them to use an even thinner wall
    than OX Plat while maintaining sufficient stiffness for lightweight use.

    Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles LaSalle, il 815-223-1776 http://www.heronbicycles.com
     
  14. Todd Kuzma <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > True Temper's new S3 tubing, developed with Waterford, uses an even larger diameter tube than the
    > "oversized" tubing. Since no lugs are yet available for this size, it must be TIG-welded.

    Or fillet-brazed. Neither the top or down tubes are round at the ends, so they wouldn't fit lugs,
    anyhow. I guess there were lugs made for Columbus Max, so it could be done (not likely).

    > The tubing is essentially a version of OX Platinum. The larger diameter allows them to use an even
    > thinner wall than OX Plat while maintaining sufficient stiffness for lightweight use.

    Only the DT is larger (~1.5" OD, slightly ovalized ends) than available OX Platinum tubes. The main
    tube wall thicknesses are similar in the middles, but the S3 tubes are thinner in the butts (ends).
    The S3 seat tube and stays are small (normal) diameter with thin walls. See:
    http://www.truetemper.com/performance_tubing/biketube.html

    I'm having a custom sloping TT road frame fillet-brazed out of S3, which has a 1.5" downtube, with
    an OX Platinum HT (S3 is too short) and 1-3/8" TT (also 0.4mm walls). The seat tube and stays will
    be S3. I rode an all S3 Waterford R33 briefly and thought it was plenty stiff enough in the rear
    end, so I think this'll be a good combination for me (6'-3", 185 lbs). I'll be interested to see how
    the weight comes out, should be under 4 lbs, which would be pretty good for the equivalent of a 62
    to 65 cm steel frame. Under $1000, too.

    -David
     
  15. Bill K.

    Bill K. Guest

    > True Temper's new S3 tubing, developed with Waterford, uses an even larger diameter tube than the
    > "oversized" tubing. Since no lugs are yet available for this size, it must be TIG-welded. The
    > tubing is essentially a version of OX Platinum. The larger diameter allows them to use an even
    > thinner wall than OX Plat while maintaining sufficient stiffness for lightweight use.
    >
    > Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles LaSalle, il 815-223-1776 http://www.heronbicycles.com

    This year Waterford is building some frames with a 1 3/8 OX Plat downtube. I thought that S3 was a
    slightly stronger steel alloy than OX Plat. I thought that S3 was a "Race Only" super light tubeset
    and would have a limited lifespan, whereas OX Plat would have an indefinite lifespan unless crashed
    hard. If I have the facts wrong, please let me know.
     
  16. Sorni

    Sorni Guest

    "holli" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > My bikesponsor asked me which frame material I'd like to have next year and he said that Columbus
    > has developed a new steel tubeset called Niobium. Does anyone know what kind of tubeset is
    > Niobium? Is there any limits for weight or height of a rider? How is it with durability?

    You're a sponsored rider and you're asking a bunch of faceless yahoos on the internet what you
    should choose?

    Bill "snif-snif" S.
     
  17. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Guest

    > Niobium is the name the USA uses for the element Columbium (get the connection to Columbus tubes?)
    > Niobium is element number 41 - between zirconium and molybdenum on the periodic table. Alloys of
    > niobium/columbium are used in nuclear reactors because of their low cross-section to thermal
    > neutrons and niobium/columbium is also one of the best superconducting materials. Nothing I've
    > seen makes me think it would offer anything to bike tube metallurgy.

    i'm not an expert on this stuff, but i believe Nb/Cb helps control the air-hardening process for
    modern tig-weldable chrome steel tube.

    jb
     
  18. Todd Kuzma

    Todd Kuzma Guest

    Bill K. wrote:

    > This year Waterford is building some frames with a 1 3/8 OX Plat downtube. I thought that S3 was a
    > slightly stronger steel alloy than OX Plat. I thought that S3 was a "Race Only" super light
    > tubeset and would have a limited lifespan, whereas OX Plat would have an indefinite lifespan
    > unless crashed hard. If I have the facts wrong, please let me know.

    My understanding is that S3 is an oversized OX Platinum manufactured to tighter tolerances.
    Nothing on the True Temper site contradicts this although I'd be interested to hear evidence to
    the contrary.

    Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles LaSalle, Il 815-223-1776 http://www.heronbicycles.com
     
  19. Carl Fogel

    Carl Fogel Guest

    "Sorni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > "holli" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > My bikesponsor asked me which frame material I'd like to have next year and he said that
    > > Columbus has developed a new steel tubeset called Niobium. Does anyone know what kind of tubeset
    > > is Niobium? Is there any limits for weight or height of a rider? How is it with durability?
    >
    > You're a sponsored rider and you're asking a bunch of faceless yahoos on the internet what you
    > should choose?
    >
    > Bill "snif-snif" S.

    Dear Bill,

    I kind of like the idea of a yellow shirt that says "Faceless Yahoo," possibly with "Free Advice at
    Reasonable Rates" and "rec.bicycles.tech" underneath in smaller letters, but I can't think of a good
    background picture.

    If you do, will you split the royalties with me?

    Carl Fogel
     
  20. Sorni

    Sorni Guest

    "Carl Fogel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Sorni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > "holli" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > My bikesponsor asked me which frame material I'd like to have next
    year
    > > > and he said that Columbus has developed a new steel tubeset called Niobium. Does anyone know
    > > > what kind of tubeset is Niobium? Is there
    any
    > > > limits for weight or height of a rider? How is it with durability?
    > >
    > > You're a sponsored rider and you're asking a bunch of faceless yahoos on
    the
    > > internet what you should choose?
    > >
    > > Bill "snif-snif" S.
    >
    > Dear Bill,
    >
    > I kind of like the idea of a yellow shirt that says "Faceless Yahoo," possibly with "Free Advice
    > at Reasonable Rates" and "rec.bicycles.tech" underneath in smaller letters, but I can't think of a
    > good background picture.
    >
    > If you do, will you split the royalties with me?

    Well, Carl, I can't even spell "sniff" apparently, so perhaps there's someone better suited to
    brainstorm this issue.

    Bill "thanks for the offer, though" S.
     
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