Comments on new training routine

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

On May 1, 4:51 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> What I said is
> that you have to ALSO do EASY recovery rides.

No.

> The difference is that when you're trained up high
> enough your "easy" ride is very often a great deal
> harder than most riders can do.

Yes.

 

[Tom Kunich]

"Bret" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:3ce6d527-8c2b-487e-947d-0b991218ac6f@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On May 1, 5:46 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> > "Bret" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > news:ba0ae290-8f04-4825-9fa9-25573308cb8b@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> > > One of the top north american pros in the 80's. Some euro experience.
> >
> > Bret, how successful were our 80's "pros" in Europe? Could it be that
> > they
> > didn't know how to properly train? Why is it that today's Pros can make
> > the
> > transition and in the 80's they felt delighted to finish a European
> > race?
>
> I'm definitely smirking now. Several north americans made the
> transition quit well in the 80's. Are you forgetting who crushed
> Breukink on the Gavia?

In case you missed it - Andy trained alone. What's more, LeMond generally
trained alone.

Why are you arguing about something like this? All of the great champions
generally trained alone because they had focus and were focusing on their
own specific needs and not trying to play games with other people in a
group.

What tends to separate the greats from the also-rans is the fact that they
CAN focus on their specific training needs while alone.

Tell me, do you believe that those shots of Lance riding all of the cols
alone on training rides were just shot for that video?

 

[Tom Kunich]

"SLAVE of THE STATE" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:8f2dc593-9e2f-4d1b-87c4-5e103e83d09a@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On May 1, 4:51 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> > What I said is
> > that you have to ALSO do EASY recovery rides.
>
> No.

Well, we'll have to disagree on this point. Fact is that every training
manual says the same thing as I just did.

> > The difference is that when you're trained up high
> > enough your "easy" ride is very often a great deal
> > harder than most riders can do.
>
> Yes.

But they are EASY rides for these riders.

 

[Bret]

On May 1, 6:41 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "Bret" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:3ce6d527-8c2b-487e-947d-0b991218ac6f@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On May 1, 5:46 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> > > "Bret" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > >news:ba0ae290-8f04-4825-9fa9-25573308cb8b@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com....
> > > > One of the top north american pros in the 80's. Some euro experience..
>
> > > Bret, how successful were our 80's "pros" in Europe? Could it be that
> > > they
> > > didn't know how to properly train? Why is it that today's Pros can make
> > > the
> > > transition and in the 80's they felt delighted to finish a European
> > > race?
>
> > I'm definitely smirking now. Several north americans made the
> > transition quit well in the 80's. Are you forgetting who crushed
> > Breukink on the Gavia?
>
> In case you missed it - Andy trained alone. What's more, LeMond generally
> trained alone.

The few times I've observed Andy training he wasn't alone. If he was
alone then I would definitely have missed it. But I didn't miss it.

>
> Why are you arguing about something like this? All of the great champions
> generally trained alone because they had focus and were focusing on their
> own specific needs and not trying to play games with other people in a
> group.

Does motor pacing count as training alone?

>
> What tends to separate the greats from the also-rans is the fact that they
> CAN focus on their specific training needs while alone.
>
> Tell me, do you believe that those shots of Lance riding all of the cols
> alone on training rides were just shot for that video?

Saul Raison tells a funny story about the day he attacked Lance on
Lance's last training ride.

You're a numbskull. Last week you were claiming that only training
races will get you fit for racing. This week you claim that solo
riding is the ticket. My favorite still is your claim that interval
efforts are maximum efforts indistinguishable from sprint efforts and
that anything else is not a proper interval.

Bret

 

[Bret]

On May 1, 5:45 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:06f5a5f0-cdd3-4720-aefe-ddbce96217f3@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Have you noticed that the only person Bret ever picks a fight with is
> > YOU?
>
> Yeah, since I'm the only one here that doesn't take his postings as gospel..
> Why don't you remove your lips from his anus?
>
> > Perhaps YOU should get this through your head.  Bret (and most others
> > on R.B.R.) has forgotten more about training and racing than you'll
> > know.
>
> I see you're french-kissing it.

Scott and I are friends and ex-teammates. We have a mutual respect and
many differences. I haven't noticed anyone here taking my postings as
gospel, quite the opposite. Show me one example.

Now, what about the gay theme of your post. How can you post this and
think that you don't have a problem?

Bret

 

[Robert Chung]

On May 1, 8:56 pm, Bret <[email protected]> wrote:

> You're a numbskull. Last week you were claiming that only training
> races will get you fit for racing. This week you claim that solo
> riding is the ticket. My favorite still is your claim that interval
> efforts are maximum efforts indistinguishable from sprint efforts and
> that anything else is not a proper interval.

My favorite is his claim that Marco Polo sailed to the North Pole.

 

[Bret]

On May 1, 10:12 pm, Robert Chung <[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 1, 8:56 pm, Bret <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > You're a numbskull. Last week you were claiming that only training
> > races will get you fit for racing. This week you claim that solo
> > riding is the ticket. My favorite still is your claim that interval
> > efforts are maximum efforts indistinguishable from sprint efforts and
> > that anything else is not a proper interval.
>
> My favorite is his claim that Marco Polo sailed to the North Pole.

Solo?

 

[Robert Chung]

On May 1, 9:21 pm, Bret <[email protected]> wrote:

> > My favorite is his claim that Marco Polo sailed to the North Pole.
>
> Solo?

Here's Tom's picture: http://www.kenpapai.com/cycling/rbr/Tomk.JPG

Unless he's paying for it, he's working his polo solo.

 

[Howard Kveck]

In article <c5863247-32f4-43c8-b991-0b7ce79c7a5a@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
Bret <[email protected]> wrote:

> On May 1, 6:41 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> > What tends to separate the greats from the also-rans is the fact that they
> > CAN focus on their specific training needs while alone.
> >
> > Tell me, do you believe that those shots of Lance riding all of the cols
> > alone on training rides were just shot for that video?
>
> Saul Raison tells a funny story about the day he attacked Lance on
> Lance's last training ride.
>
> You're a numbskull. Last week you were claiming that only training
> races will get you fit for racing. This week you claim that solo
> riding is the ticket.

Hey, that was last week. Everything's different now. Kind of like how it's all
different with respect to the efficacy of supplements.

> My favorite still is your claim that interval efforts are maximum efforts
> indistinguishable from sprint efforts and that anything else is not a proper
> interval.

I was wondering when Kunich Brand (tm) Sprintervals was going to enter the picture.

--
tanx,
Howard

Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an icepick
That made his ears burn.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

 

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Thu, 1 May 2008 20:56:44 -0700 (PDT), Bret <[email protected]>
wrote:
[to Kunich}
>You're a numbskull. Last week you were claiming that only training
>races will get you fit for racing. This week you claim that solo
>riding is the ticket. My favorite still is your claim that interval
>efforts are maximum efforts indistinguishable from sprint efforts and
>that anything else is not a proper interval.

Dumbass,

You're finally realizing he can't not argue/say something dopey?

 

[[email protected]]

On May 1, 5:55 pm, SLAVE of THE STATE <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 30, 7:16 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> > Riding easy is AS IMPORTANT as riding hard.
>
> No.

I think I agree. What maybe is applicable for pros at the outer fringe
of possible fitness levels and with massive training volume and work
levels may not be so for guys like me who are just farting along in
comparison.

In other words, I am so far away from being over-trained that easy
rides don't have such an important place for me. That doesn't mean I
go hard all the time, I don't have the mental toughness (nor desire)
for that. It just means that if I go half-hard sometimes instead of
easy, it's not the end of the world.

Joseph

 

[[email protected]]

On May 1, 8:41 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> In case you missed it - Andy trained alone. What's more, LeMond generally
> trained alone.
>
> What tends to separate the greats from the also-rans is the fact that they
> CAN focus on their specific training needs while alone.

Maybe they also were taking vitamins. Or E-Caps.


> Tell me, do you believe that those shots of Lance riding all of the cols
> alone on training rides were just shot for that video?

Everyone hated him, so he couldn't get any riding partners?

 

[[email protected]]

On Apr 30, 9:44 am, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> So my goal has been to find a regimen that is fun, not taxing in terms of
> mental hassle, and which makes me stronger.

I'm like that too. Here are some things I do to keep training from
getting too taxing for me, psychologically:

- Do the local mid-week training race. For us, this is Tues night.
For me this is the best way to get intensity and have it be fun.
Don't have one in your area? Could you or your club start one? We
have one club in the area that does club races also, and they open it
to non-members.

- Ride hills once a week. I don't like doing strict "repeats" (go up
and down the same hill). But I have no problem doing a ride that
packs a bunch of different climbs in a short distance (I'm talking
anywhere from 4-8 minute efforts ... we don't have big climbs here).

- Get a TT bike and add TT training. There's something about being on
the TT bike that makes you want to go fast. For some reason, I don't
have a problem mentally getting on the TT bike and doing 2x20 min. or
6x5 min, etc. Or maybe it's thinking, I got this bike so I better use
it. Or maybe just being on a different bike. Also gives you the
opportunity to do any of the local low-key TT events that seem to pop
up.

- Go ride on one of your local race courses. If I go ride on a course
we use for races, I seem to want to ride it like a race. The other
night for example I rode from home to a 4 mile hilly loop we race on,
then did some loops on that course at 'race pace'.

- and then: race as much as possible. when possible double up with
masters and seniors races on the same day.

 

[Bob Schwartz]

Bret wrote:
> I'm definitely smirking now. Several north americans made the
> transition quit well in the 80's. Are you forgetting who crushed
> Breukink on the Gavia?

Good troll. But not as good as Chung's. And your
Troll Index sucks.

Bob Schwartz

 

[Ted van de Weteringe]

Bob Schwartz wrote:
> Bret wrote:
>> I'm definitely smirking now. Several north americans made the
>> transition quit well in the 80's. Are you forgetting who crushed
>> Breukink on the Gavia?
>
> Good troll.

But what if I don't respond? Ah, damn.

 

[Tom Kunich]

"Bret" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:c5863247-32f4-43c8-b991-0b7ce79c7a5a@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> The few times I've observed Andy training he wasn't alone. If he was
> alone then I would definitely have missed it. But I didn't miss it.

Followed by:

> Does motor pacing count as training alone?

Thanks. That pretty much showed what you're trying to do.

> You're a numbskull. Last week you were claiming that only training
> races will get you fit for racing.

Last week we were talking about amateur racing with amatuer racers. This
week we're talking about professionals and their training. But then it is
plain that you don't know there's a difference nor why.

 

[Tom Kunich]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:16aadf70-57be-47c7-a315-c0fbfcd8648a@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
On May 1, 5:55 pm, SLAVE of THE STATE <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Apr 30, 7:16 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >
> > > Riding easy is AS IMPORTANT as riding hard.
> >
> > No.
>
> I think I agree. What maybe is applicable for pros at the outer fringe
> of possible fitness levels and with massive training volume and work
> levels may not be so for guys like me who are just farting along in
> comparison.
>
> In other words, I am so far away from being over-trained that easy
> rides don't have such an important place for me. That doesn't mean I
> go hard all the time, I don't have the mental toughness (nor desire)
> for that. It just means that if I go half-hard sometimes instead of
> easy, it's not the end of the world.

Joe, that precisely what I said is the problem with amateurs training.
Instead of resting on your rest day you push it and don't recover properly
so that the next hard ride you do your body can't take full advantage.

 

[Tom Kunich]

"Bret" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:afec0e3c-d67c-4f45-9851-154b07040eda@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> Scott and I are friends and ex-teammates.

From your guys discussions here I can well imagine the "team" sport.

 

[Scott]

On May 1, 5:45 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:06f5a5f0-cdd3-4720-aefe-ddbce96217f3@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Have you noticed that the only person Bret ever picks a fight with is
> > YOU?
>
> Yeah, since I'm the only one here that doesn't take his postings as gospel..
> Why don't you remove your lips from his anus?
>
> > Perhaps YOU should get this through your head.  Bret (and most others
> > on R.B.R.) has forgotten more about training and racing than you'll
> > know.
>
> I see you're french-kissing it.

Tom,

Thanks for staying true to form. Can't refute the argument, so you
resort to playground-like tactics of trying to insult me.

Scott

 

[[email protected]]

On May 2, 3:52 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:16aadf70-57be-47c7-a315-c0fbfcd8648a@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On May 1, 5:55 pm, SLAVE of THE STATE <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > On Apr 30, 7:16 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> > > > Riding easy is AS IMPORTANT as riding hard.
>
> > > No.
>
> > I think I agree. What maybe is applicable for pros at the outer fringe
> > of possible fitness levels and with massive training volume and work
> > levels may not be so for guys like me who are just farting along in
> > comparison.
>
> > In other words, I am so far away from being over-trained that easy
> > rides don't have such an important place for me. That doesn't mean I
> > go hard all the time, I don't have the mental toughness (nor desire)
> > for that. It just means that if I go half-hard sometimes instead of
> > easy, it's not the end of the world.
>
> Joe, that precisely what I said is the problem with amateurs training.
> Instead of resting on your rest day you push it and don't recover properly
> so that the next hard ride you do your body can't take full advantage.

It's just that even on days when I ride very hard for example trying
to keep up with some faster buddies on a fast team time-trial type
ride, the next day I am always fresh. I don't think I am capable of
doing enough work in a workout to not be able to recover in one day.
If I were stronger (like a pro), I could do more, and then maybe one
day wouldn't be enough.

Joseph