Comments Please; long.

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by Alan, Jun 4, 2004.

  1. Alan

    Alan Guest

    G'day All

    X-posted to misc.health.diabetes, alt.support.diabetes

    I would appreciate comments on the draft letter below. The
    letter is intended for my local Diabetes Australia
    quarterly magazine.

    I feel a little like Spartacus heading off to the arena; "we
    who are about to die salute you". I'm not an expert, so I
    know I'm asking to be drawn and quartered here, but I'd
    respect informed, civil criticism before I "go to press" :)

    If I'm wrong or uninformed, I'm happy to debate the point or
    modify the letter as long as things stay civil.

    Letter:

    To the editor,

    I would hope that you will publish this letter, despite the
    obvious disagreement with your standard dietary policy.

    I am a type 2 diabetic. I was diagnosed in May 2002 with
    high fasting glucose and HbA1c of 8.2. I realise that I
    am just another of many thousands, or unfortunately now,
    millions, around the world who have stepped out of the
    doctor's office finding it hard to come to terms with
    this news, and the implications for a significant change
    in my life.

    From that moment I was determined to learn what I needed to
    know to beat
    it. One of the first things I learnt was that, at least for
    the moment, you can't beat it. It's incurable. But I
    also slowly learnt that it is possible to gain a measure
    of control. I lost 28 Kg in six months and have
    stabilised at a loss of 25 Kg. The net results are that
    my blood pressure is great, my lipids are the best
    they've ever been, and my HbA1c has dropped from 8.2 to
    5.9. My only medication is lipitor 20.

    Unfortunately, the stock response to previous writers with
    similar results such as ....... in the previous issue, is
    that it was achieved because of the weight loss or exercise.
    Yes, I lost weight, and yes, I do some exercise (I should do
    more). However, the hardest time for control came after the
    weight stabilised eighteen months ago. The reason I am in
    control is post-prandial self-testing, with analysis of my
    results leading to modification of my diet.

    How did I do that? I read and listened to everything I could
    find on type 2, but as a layman I didn't find much. I didn't
    even know what to look for. Of course, I joined Diabetes
    Australia, and I later attended a local monthly meeting. The
    dietician there recommended his course at the community
    health centre, so I went to that. It was good; I learnt
    about carbohydrates, and how they lead to blood glucose, and
    insulin, fats, food labels etc. Lots of good information.

    But it was there that I first came across a contradiction.
    In the first lecture, we learnt that eating complex
    carbohydrates caused our blood glucose to rise, and eating
    more carbs at a meal caused the BGs to rise more. Pretty
    basic stuff.

    During this time, I had searched the internet for
    information and also joined some diabetes newsgroups. I
    learnt there some advice which made simple sense to me -
    test your blood glucose after you eat to find out what the
    effect is from the food you eat. To me, that sounded so
    logical. Then if what you eat causes a "spike" modify what
    you eat next time. Obvious and logical.

    Apparently not as obvious or as logical to the dietician,
    Diabetes Australia (DA) or international authorities such as
    the American Diabetes Association (ADA). Because in the next
    lecture, we were told that we should eat 30-45 gms of
    carbohydrate at every meal for our health. In the interim, I
    had started testing my blood glucose one hour and two hours
    after every meal to see the effects of my diet. When I put
    the dietician's advice into practice, I consistently got
    very high ( 8, 9 and over 10) readings at one hour.

    So we come to the paradox facing Type 2 diabetics around
    the world:

    1. Dieticians advise high complex carbohydrate consumption,
    apparently for heart and vascular health;
    2. High complex carbohydrate consumption causes high blood
    glucose levels;
    3. High blood glucose levels cause diabetic
    complications such as retinopathy, neuropathy,
    nephropathy and heart disease;
    4. DA dieticians promote high complex carbohydrate
    consumption, but balance this by recommending medication
    to control blood glucose levels. This advice appears to
    be in line with the recommendations of the ADA.

    I have attached copies of the relevant DA and ADA
    recommendations to this letter.

    There is an alternative. Follow a healthy diet, and take
    diabetes medications or insulin if the diet is inadequate to
    maintain safe blood glucose levels. I would define a healthy
    diet for a diabetic as one which meets nutritional needs for
    general health without raising blood glucose levels above
    acceptable limits. That means a much lower carb intake for
    most of us than that recommended by the dieticians. My view
    is that self-monitoring of blood glucose levels (SMBG) is
    necessary to determine the diet for each individual Type 2.
    The best method to achieve this that I've seen is at http://www.alt-support-
    diabetes.org , under the heading "Newly Diagnosed".

    This option, which can lead to a significant reduction in
    complex carbohydrates in the diet, is vehemently opposed by
    diabetes authorities around the world. The basis for
    opposition appears to be that it will lead to a higher
    incidence of heart disease, despite a growing body of
    evidence that the dietary thinking from the latter half of
    the twentieth century was incorrect and simplistic. The
    mantra appears to be: "fat is bad, carbs are good, excess
    protein gives you kidney disease". Modern research is
    starting to discover that the type of fat is critical - some
    is good, some is bad, some is neither in moderation; the
    type of carbs are critical - low GI, high GI, leafy veg
    versus starches etc, the proportion and type of protein is
    important, the inclusion of vitamins and minerals such as
    calcium, potassium etc is critical; and so on. And most
    important: that post-prandial excursions (BG spikes) caused
    by high carb consumption are just as dangerous as high
    fasting BG levels.

    In other words, the more we learn on diet, the less definite
    is the reliance on thinking from last century . Thus, there
    is less and less foundation for the advice given by
    dieticians for diabetics to eat lots of starchy carbs and
    balance them with meds.

    I had already designed my own diet, a very simple low-fat
    low kj diet based on everything I could find on the
    subject. Using that, and a lazy man's exercise programme, I
    lost about 25 Kg. About half-way through that process I
    started intensive testing, up to ten times daily in the
    early stages. I discovered exactly what the effect was on
    my blood from everything I ate, then went back and changed
    the foods that caused spikes - until I didn't get spikes. I
    don't eat low-carb deliberately; I eat low-spike, which
    tends to be low-carb.

    It doesn't mean I'll never use meds. It's a progressive
    disease; all I can do is try to delay progress or slow it
    down as much as I can. And it's no miracle cure - just the
    application of common sense and discipline.

    There is a new generation of informed, pro-active e-patients
    out there who no longer accept the traditional advice
    without backup support, cites to medical papers and logical
    analysis. It is no longer acceptable to advise Type 2
    diabetics to eat high starch diets unless a rational,
    referenced argument can be put to support that case. This
    letter is too long already, but I can, on request, provide
    many medical research sources on the net for my logic. Can
    the dieticians?

    And to answer the cynics, no, my diet is not for sale.

    Alan Shanley, Pottsville Beach NSW

    Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and
    carbs to email.
    --
    Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
     
    Tags:


  2. so exactly WHO tells diabetics to eat "lots of starchy
    carbs?" No medical person or dietician ever told ME to eat
    "lots of starchy carbs". I question this person's "facts".

    dave

    Alan wrote: Thus, there is less and less
    > foundation for the advice given by dieticians for
    > diabetics to eat lots of starchy carbs and balance them
    > with meds.
     
  3. T2_lurking

    T2_lurking Guest

    It all seems good to me personally. Has it been cathartic
    for you? Do you think it will be printed in its entirety?
    And the correct spelling is realize, stabilized, and of
    course program, not programme. Oh, wait that's right, upside-
    down land, so I guess it is programme.

    Good for you! It's always encouraging to see people
    speak out.

    --
    gingersnap geabbottATabbottandabbottDOTcom Do not mail to
    t2_lurking (auto-delete)
    ===============================
    The mature man lives quietly, does good privately, assumes
    personal responsibility for his actions, treats others with
    friendliness and courtesy, finds mischief boring and keeps
    out of it. Without this hidden conspiracy of good will,
    society would not endure an hour. --- Kenneth Rexroth ---

    "Alan" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:eek:[email protected]...
    > G'day All
    >
    > X-posted to misc.health.diabetes, alt.support.diabetes
    >
    > I would appreciate comments on the draft letter below. The
    > letter is intended for my local Diabetes Australia
    > quarterly magazine.
    >
    > I feel a little like Spartacus heading off to the arena;
    > "we who are about to die salute you". I'm not an expert,
    > so I know I'm asking to be drawn and quartered here, but
    > I'd respect informed, civil criticism before I "go to
    > press" :)
    >
    > If I'm wrong or uninformed, I'm happy to debate the point
    > or modify the letter as long as things stay civil.
    >
    > Letter:
    >
    > To the editor,
    >
    > I would hope that you will publish this letter,
    > despite the obvious disagreement with your standard
    > dietary policy.
    >
    > I am a type 2 diabetic. I was diagnosed in May 2002 with
    > high fasting glucose and HbA1c of 8.2. I realize that I
    > am just another of many thousands, or unfortunately now,
    > millions, around the world who have stepped out of the
    > doctor's office finding it hard to come to terms with
    > this news, and the implications for a significant change
    > in my life.
    >
    > From that moment I was determined to learn what I needed
    > to know to beat
    > it. One of the first things I learnt was that, at least
    > for the moment, you can't beat it. It's incurable. But
    > I also slowly learnt that it is possible to gain a
    > measure of control. I lost 28 Kg in six months and
    > have stabilized at a loss of 25 Kg. The net results
    > are that my blood pressure is great, my lipids are the
    > best they've ever been, and my HbA1c has dropped from
    > 8.2 to 5.9. My only medication is lipitor 20.
    >
    > Unfortunately, the stock response to previous writers with
    > similar results such as ....... in the previous issue, is
    > that it was achieved because of the weight loss or
    > exercise. Yes, I lost weight, and yes, I do some exercise
    > (I should do more). However, the hardest time for control
    > came after the weight stabilized eighteen months ago. The
    > reason I am in control is post-prandial self-testing, with
    > analysis of my results leading to modification of my diet.
    >
    > How did I do that? I read and listened to everything I
    > could find on type 2, but as a layman I didn't find much.
    > I didn't even know what to look for. Of course, I joined
    > Diabetes Australia, and I later attended a local monthly
    > meeting. The dietician there recommended his course at the
    > community health centre, so I went to that. It was good; I
    > learnt about carbohydrates, and how they lead to blood
    > glucose, and insulin, fats, food labels etc. Lots of good
    > information.
    >
    > But it was there that I first came across a contradiction.
    > In the first lecture, we learnt that eating complex
    > carbohydrates caused our blood glucose to rise, and eating
    > more carbs at a meal caused the BGs to rise more. Pretty
    > basic stuff.
    >
    > During this time, I had searched the internet for
    > information and also joined some diabetes newsgroups. I
    > learnt there some advice which made simple sense to me -
    > test your blood glucose after you eat to find out what the
    > effect is from the food you eat. To me, that sounded so
    > logical. Then if what you eat causes a "spike" modify what
    > you eat next time. Obvious and logical.
    >
    > Apparently not as obvious or as logical to the dietician,
    > Diabetes Australia (DA) or international authorities such
    > as the American Diabetes Association (ADA). Because in the
    > next lecture, we were told that we should eat 30-45 gms of
    > carbohydrate at every meal for our health. In the interim,
    > I had started testing my blood glucose one hour and two
    > hours after every meal to see the effects of my diet. When
    > I put the dietician's advice into practice, I consistently
    > got very high ( 8, 9 and over 10) readings at one hour.
    >
    > So we come to the paradox facing Type 2 diabetics around
    > the world:
    >
    > 1. Dieticians advise high complex carbohydrate
    > consumption, apparently for heart and vascular health;
    > 2. High complex carbohydrate consumption causes high blood
    > glucose levels;
    > 3. High blood glucose levels cause diabetic complications
    > such as retinopathy, neuropathy, nephropathy and heart
    > disease;
    > 4. DA dieticians promote high complex carbohydrate
    > consumption, but balance this by recommending
    > medication to control blood glucose levels. This
    > advice appears to be in line with the recommendations
    > of the ADA.
    >
    > I have attached copies of the relevant DA and ADA
    > recommendations to this letter.
    >
    > There is an alternative. Follow a healthy diet, and take
    > diabetes medications or insulin if the diet is inadequate
    > to maintain safe blood glucose levels. I would define a
    > healthy diet for a diabetic as one which meets nutritional
    > needs for general health without raising blood glucose
    > levels above acceptable limits. That means a much lower
    > carb intake for most of us than that recommended by the
    > dieticians. My view is that self-monitoring of blood
    > glucose levels (SMBG) is necessary to determine the diet
    > for each individual Type 2. The best method to achieve
    > this that I've seen is at http://www.alt-support-
    > diabetes.org , under the heading "Newly Diagnosed".
    >
    > This option, which can lead to a significant reduction in
    > complex carbohydrates in the diet, is vehemently opposed
    > by diabetes authorities around the world. The basis for
    > opposition appears to be that it will lead to a higher
    > incidence of heart disease, despite a growing body of
    > evidence that the dietary thinking from the latter half of
    > the twentieth century was incorrect and simplistic. The
    > mantra appears to be: "fat is bad, carbs are good, excess
    > protein gives you kidney disease". Modern research is
    > starting to discover that the type of fat is critical -
    > some is good, some is bad, some is neither in moderation;
    > the type of carbs are critical - low GI, high GI, leafy
    > veg versus starches etc, the proportion and type of
    > protein is important, the inclusion of vitamins and
    > minerals such as calcium, potassium etc is critical; and
    > so on. And most important: that post-prandial excursions
    > (BG spikes) caused by high carb consumption are just as
    > dangerous as high fasting BG levels.
    >
    > In other words, the more we learn on diet, the less
    > definite is the reliance on thinking from last century .
    > Thus, there is less and less foundation for the advice
    > given by dieticians for diabetics to eat lots of starchy
    > carbs and balance them with meds.
    >
    > I had already designed my own diet, a very simple low-fat
    > low kj diet based on everything I could find on the
    > subject. Using that, and a lazy man's exercise programme,
    > I lost about 25 Kg. About half-way through that process I
    > started intensive testing, up to ten times daily in the
    > early stages. I discovered exactly what the effect was on
    > my blood from everything I ate, then went back and changed
    > the foods that caused spikes - until I didn't get spikes.
    > I don't eat low-carb deliberately; I eat low-spike, which
    > tends to be low-carb.
    >
    > It doesn't mean I'll never use meds. It's a progressive
    > disease; all I can do is try to delay progress or slow it
    > down as much as I can. And it's no miracle cure - just the
    > application of common sense and discipline.
    >
    > There is a new generation of informed, pro-active e-
    > patients out there who no longer accept the traditional
    > advice without backup support, cites to medical papers and
    > logical analysis. It is no longer acceptable to advise
    > Type 2 diabetics to eat high starch diets unless a
    > rational, referenced argument can be put to support that
    > case. This letter is too long already, but I can, on
    > request, provide many medical research sources on the net
    > for my logic. Can the dieticians?
    >
    > And to answer the cynics, no, my diet is not for sale.
    >
    > Alan Shanley, Pottsville Beach NSW
    >
    > Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and carbs
    > to email.
    > --
    > Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
     
  4. Wes Groleau

    Wes Groleau Guest

    Alan wrote:
    > If I'm wrong or uninformed, I'm happy to debate the point
    > or modify the letter as long as things stay civil.

    Alan, I don't think you are "wrong or uninformed" but in the
    time I've spent as a teacher and as a technical writer, I've
    learned that human beings in general DO NOT READ. In other
    words, it's good, but unless you can make it shorter....

    Easier said than done, I know.

    --
    Wes Groleau

    Is it an on-line compliment to call someone a Net Wit ?
     
  5. Jenny

    Jenny Guest

    Alan,

    My advice would be to think a bit more like a journalist and
    make your point early in the letter, then support it. As it
    is, a person must read quite a lot to get to the point and
    most people, alas, are lazy when it comes to reading.

    Make your point in a pithy first paragraph, and then
    eliminate everything but the information that supports your
    point. The shorter the better. That way, it gets read and
    the information gets across.

    -- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight.
    Type 2 diabetes, hba1c 5.4. Cut the carbs to respond to my
    email address!

    Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips,
    recipes, strategies for dealing with diabetes and more at
    http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

    Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? Visit http://www.alt-support-
    diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm

    "Alan" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:eek:[email protected]...
    > G'day All
    >
    > X-posted to misc.health.diabetes, alt.support.diabetes
    >
    > I would appreciate comments on the draft letter below. The
    > letter is intended for my local Diabetes Australia
    > quarterly magazine.
    >
    > I feel a little like Spartacus heading off to the arena;
    > "we who are about to die salute you". I'm not an expert,
    > so I know I'm asking to be drawn and quartered here, but
    > I'd respect informed, civil criticism before I "go to
    > press" :)
    >
    > If I'm wrong or uninformed, I'm happy to debate the point
    > or modify the letter as long as things stay civil.
    >
    > Letter:
    >
    > To the editor,
    >
    > I would hope that you will publish this letter,
    > despite the obvious disagreement with your standard
    > dietary policy.
    >
    > I am a type 2 diabetic. I was diagnosed in May 2002 with
    > high fasting glucose and HbA1c of 8.2. I realise that I
    > am just another of many thousands, or unfortunately now,
    > millions, around the world who have stepped out of the
    > doctor's office finding it hard to come to terms with
    > this news, and the implications for a significant change
    > in my life.
    >
    > From that moment I was determined to learn what I needed
    > to know to beat
    > it. One of the first things I learnt was that, at least
    > for the moment, you can't beat it. It's incurable. But
    > I also slowly learnt that it is possible to gain a
    > measure of control. I lost 28 Kg in six months and
    > have stabilised at a loss of 25 Kg. The net results
    > are that my blood pressure is great, my lipids are the
    > best they've ever been, and my HbA1c has dropped from
    > 8.2 to 5.9. My only medication is lipitor 20.
    >
    > Unfortunately, the stock response to previous writers with
    > similar results such as ....... in the previous issue, is
    > that it was achieved because of the weight loss or
    > exercise. Yes, I lost weight, and yes, I do some exercise
    > (I should do more). However, the hardest time for control
    > came after the weight stabilised eighteen months ago. The
    > reason I am in control is post-prandial self-testing, with
    > analysis of my results leading to modification of my diet.
    >
    > How did I do that? I read and listened to everything I
    > could find on type 2, but as a layman I didn't find much.
    > I didn't even know what to look for. Of course, I joined
    > Diabetes Australia, and I later attended a local monthly
    > meeting. The dietician there recommended his course at the
    > community health centre, so I went to that. It was good; I
    > learnt about carbohydrates, and how they lead to blood
    > glucose, and insulin, fats, food labels etc. Lots of good
    > information.
    >
    > But it was there that I first came across a contradiction.
    > In the first lecture, we learnt that eating complex
    > carbohydrates caused our blood glucose to rise, and eating
    > more carbs at a meal caused the BGs to rise more. Pretty
    > basic stuff.
    >
    > During this time, I had searched the internet for
    > information and also joined some diabetes newsgroups. I
    > learnt there some advice which made simple sense to me -
    > test your blood glucose after you eat to find out what the
    > effect is from the food you eat. To me, that sounded so
    > logical. Then if what you eat causes a "spike" modify what
    > you eat next time. Obvious and logical.
    >
    > Apparently not as obvious or as logical to the dietician,
    > Diabetes Australia (DA) or international authorities such
    > as the American Diabetes Association (ADA). Because in the
    > next lecture, we were told that we should eat 30-45 gms of
    > carbohydrate at every meal for our health. In the interim,
    > I had started testing my blood glucose one hour and two
    > hours after every meal to see the effects of my diet. When
    > I put the dietician's advice into practice, I consistently
    > got very high ( 8, 9 and over 10) readings at one hour.
    >
    > So we come to the paradox facing Type 2 diabetics around
    > the world:
    >
    > 1. Dieticians advise high complex carbohydrate
    > consumption, apparently for heart and vascular health;
    > 2. High complex carbohydrate consumption causes high blood
    > glucose levels;
    > 3. High blood glucose levels cause diabetic complications
    > such as retinopathy, neuropathy, nephropathy and heart
    > disease;
    > 4. DA dieticians promote high complex carbohydrate
    > consumption, but balance this by recommending
    > medication to control blood glucose levels. This
    > advice appears to be in line with the recommendations
    > of the ADA.
    >
    > I have attached copies of the relevant DA and ADA
    > recommendations to this letter.
    >
    > There is an alternative. Follow a healthy diet, and take
    > diabetes medications or insulin if the diet is inadequate
    > to maintain safe blood glucose levels. I would define a
    > healthy diet for a diabetic as one which meets nutritional
    > needs for general health without raising blood glucose
    > levels above acceptable limits. That means a much lower
    > carb intake for most of us than that recommended by the
    > dieticians. My view is that self-monitoring of blood
    > glucose levels (SMBG) is necessary to determine the diet
    > for each individual Type 2. The best method to achieve
    > this that I've seen is at http://www.alt-support-
    > diabetes.org , under the heading "Newly Diagnosed".
    >
    > This option, which can lead to a significant reduction in
    > complex carbohydrates in the diet, is vehemently opposed
    > by diabetes authorities around the world. The basis for
    > opposition appears to be that it will lead to a higher
    > incidence of heart disease, despite a growing body of
    > evidence that the dietary thinking from the latter half of
    > the twentieth century was incorrect and simplistic. The
    > mantra appears to be: "fat is bad, carbs are good, excess
    > protein gives you kidney disease". Modern research is
    > starting to discover that the type of fat is critical -
    > some is good, some is bad, some is neither in moderation;
    > the type of carbs are critical - low GI, high GI, leafy
    > veg versus starches etc, the proportion and type of
    > protein is important, the inclusion of vitamins and
    > minerals such as calcium, potassium etc is critical; and
    > so on. And most important: that post-prandial excursions
    > (BG spikes) caused by high carb consumption are just as
    > dangerous as high fasting BG levels.
    >
    > In other words, the more we learn on diet, the less
    > definite is the reliance on thinking from last century .
    > Thus, there is less and less foundation for the advice
    > given by dieticians for diabetics to eat lots of starchy
    > carbs and balance them with meds.
    >
    > I had already designed my own diet, a very simple low-fat
    > low kj diet based on everything I could find on the
    > subject. Using that, and a lazy man's exercise programme,
    > I lost about 25 Kg. About half-way through that process I
    > started intensive testing, up to ten times daily in the
    > early stages. I discovered exactly what the effect was on
    > my blood from everything I ate, then went back and changed
    > the foods that caused spikes - until I didn't get spikes.
    > I don't eat low-carb deliberately; I eat low-spike, which
    > tends to be low-carb.
    >
    > It doesn't mean I'll never use meds. It's a progressive
    > disease; all I can do is try to delay progress or slow it
    > down as much as I can. And it's no miracle cure - just the
    > application of common sense and discipline.
    >
    > There is a new generation of informed, pro-active e-
    > patients out there who no longer accept the traditional
    > advice without backup support, cites to medical papers and
    > logical analysis. It is no longer acceptable to advise
    > Type 2 diabetics to eat high starch diets unless a
    > rational, referenced argument can be put to support that
    > case. This letter is too long already, but I can, on
    > request, provide many medical research sources on the net
    > for my logic. Can the dieticians?
    >
    > And to answer the cynics, no, my diet is not for sale.
    >
    > Alan Shanley, Pottsville Beach NSW
    >
    > Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and carbs
    > to email.
    > --
    > Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
     
  6. Rainbow

    Rainbow Guest

    After dx I was going to be sent to dabetes school, and it's
    supposed to be a good one. It is suported, in part by a well
    know, famous food conglomerate. Their high sugar cereals and
    white bread are promoyed as the only ones, one shpuld eat.
    The dieticians there were seriously behind the times, and I
    do not eat the types of processed foods they promoted. It
    didn't maje sese. Also one doc told me that all of my
    problems were caused because I ate too many foods that were
    whole grain. She said my body couldn't handle all the fiber.
    Also carrots were causing y bg to run amuck, and I don;t
    even eat them. The standard AFA fiet, at that time, wasn't
    helpng out and I really needed qick weight loss. I adopted a
    diet from a book, newly published then, although I can't
    remember the name right now. It promoted high fiber and
    whole grain products, and lower, but not completely
    eliminated or low carb, such as we have now. I was off meds
    in a few months. I was also losing weight. I have found that
    moderation is very key. Those taking meds, might be able to
    consume this higher amount of carbs as has been put here,
    but as a type 2 with a weight problem, this would never work
    for me. The diet advise I was given was not solid. I was
    highly opinionated, from erso to person. I knew the
    rudiments of the required diet, because of my sister being
    dx'd 10 years befor me. Her dietician put her on a moderate
    diet. That seems to be the best for both of us. While I was
    still taking med and working out heavily, I did not go
    completely low carb, nor did I ever consume that much at
    every meal. I do not think that a high carb diet, meds or
    not, sounds like something that is good for you. Rainbow
     
  7. On 3-Jun-2004, Alan <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I would appreciate comments on the draft letter below. The
    > letter is intended for my local Diabetes Australia
    > quarterly magazine.
    >
    > I feel a little like Spartacus heading off to...

    Sorry... far too long. Get it down to one page of A4. If you
    want to make an impact, you need sound-bites. Anyone want a
    publicity person?

    --
    Bob Dx T1 4/4/2003, just a few units of novorapid when
    I need it (trying zeroish carb - kiddies, do not try
    this at home)
     
  8. Peanutjake

    Peanutjake Guest

    Alan, I don;t know about your magazine but the New York
    Times prefers letters of no more than 100 words. If you
    tighten it up you will have a better chance of being
    published.

    PJ
     
  9. Julie Bove

    Julie Bove Guest

    "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > so exactly WHO tells diabetics to eat "lots of starchy
    > carbs?" No medical person or dietician ever told ME to eat
    > "lots of starchy carbs". I question this person's "facts".

    Nobody told me that either, and I've seen three dieticians.
    All of them gave me similar eating plans and all contained
    less carbs than what I would have normally eaten.

    --
    Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
     
  10. Cheri

    Cheri Guest

    The dietitian I HAD for one. 45 gram of carbs at each meal 3 times a
    day, 15 gm of carbs for snacks 4 times a day. Close to 200 carbs a day
    while BG was out of control. Things like rolls, bread, oatmeal, OJ,
    milk, fruit, etc. Lots of starch IMO. :)

    --
    Cheri
    Type 2, no meds for now.

    Bay Area Dave wrote in message ...
    >so exactly WHO tells diabetics to eat "lots of starchy
    >carbs?" No medical person or dietician ever told ME to eat
    >"lots of starchy carbs". I question this person's "facts".
    >
    >dave
    >
    >Alan wrote:
    > Thus, there is less and less
    >> foundation for the advice given by dieticians for diabetics to eat
    lots
    >> of starchy carbs and balance them with meds.
    >
     
  11. Wes Groleau

    Wes Groleau Guest

    Bay Area Dave wrote:
    > so exactly WHO tells diabetics to eat "lots of starchy
    > carbs?" No medical person or dietician ever told ME to eat
    > "lots of starchy carbs". I question this person's "facts".

    In the U.S., this doctrine comes from the American Diabetes
    Association, from people who believe what they had to say to
    earn the "Certified Diabetes Educator" and from doctors and
    dietitians who haven't paid any attention to medical
    research in the last umpteen years.

    --
    Wes Groleau

    A bureaucrat is someone who cuts red tape lengthwise.
     
  12. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl Guest

    Bay Area Dave wrote:
    > so exactly WHO tells diabetics to eat "lots of starchy
    > carbs?" No medical person or dietician ever told ME to
    eat
    > "lots of starchy carbs". I question this person's
    "facts".

    Mine did. 4 carb exchanges per main meal, 2 per snack. Each
    carb exchange was approx 15 gr carb - so 60gr per main meal,
    30 per snack (3 snacks I was told to eat). I see
    recommendations daily from different sources, that a type 2
    diabetic should eat high carb diet.
     
  13. Alan

    Alan Guest

    On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 22:14:51 -0500, Wes Groleau
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Alan wrote:
    >> If I'm wrong or uninformed, I'm happy to debate the point
    >> or modify the letter as long as things stay civil.
    >
    >Alan, I don't think you are "wrong or uninformed" but in
    >the time I've spent as a teacher and as a technical writer,
    >I've learned that human beings in general DO NOT READ. In
    >other words, it's good, but unless you can make it
    >shorter....
    >
    >Easier said than done, I know.

    Fair comment Wes; I'm well aware of both the editorial need
    for space and the need to precis it. I think I'll send them
    three versions - the sound bite, the brief version and the
    one above :)

    I wanted to see the comments before I started
    abbreviating it.

    Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and
    carbs to email.
    --
    Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
     
  14. Alan

    Alan Guest

    On Thu, 3 Jun 2004 07:10:35 -0400, "Jenny" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >Alan,
    >
    >My advice would be to think a bit more like a journalist
    >and make your point early in the letter, then support
    >it. As it is, a person must read quite a lot to get to
    >the point and most people, alas, are lazy when it comes
    >to reading.
    >
    >Make your point in a pithy first paragraph, and then
    >eliminate everything but the information that supports your
    >point. The shorter the better. That way, it gets read and
    >the information gets across.

    Thx Jenny. Some trimming to do.

    Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and
    carbs to email.
    --
    Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
     
  15. Philip Smith

    Philip Smith Guest

    Bay Area Dave wrote:
    > so exactly WHO tells diabetics to eat "lots of starchy
    > carbs?" No medical person or dietician ever told ME to eat
    > "lots of starchy carbs". I question this person's "facts".
    >
    > dave
    >
    > Alan wrote: Thus, there is less and less
    >
    >> foundation for the advice given by dieticians for
    >> diabetics to eat lots of starchy carbs and balance them
    >> with meds.
    >>
    >

    For example, http://www.diabetes.org.uk/eatwell/meal_plann-
    ing/eightsteps.htm has "Eat regular meals based on starchy
    carbohydrate foods such as bread, pasta, chapatis,
    potatoes, rice and cereals. This will help you to control
    your blood glucose levels. Whenever possible, choose
    wholegrain varities that are high in fibre, like wholemeal
    bread and wholemeal cereals to help maintain the health of
    your digestive system and prevent problems such as
    constipation. " This is from the major UK diabetes charity.
    Note that the recommendations are qualitative rather than
    quantitative. {hilip
     
  16. Alan

    Alan Guest

    On Thu, 3 Jun 2004 20:19:57 -0400, "Peanutjake" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >Alan, I don;t know about your magazine but the New York
    >Times prefers letters of no more than 100 words. If you
    >tighten it up you will have a better chance of being
    >published.
    >
    >PJ
    >
    >

    Thanks PJ. I've got that message loud and clear now :)

    Any comments on the content?

    Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and
    carbs to email.
    --
    Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
     
  17. Julie Bove

    Julie Bove Guest

    "Cheri" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > The dietitian I HAD for one. 45 gram of carbs at each meal
    > 3 times a day, 15 gm of carbs for snacks 4 times a day.
    > Close to 200 carbs a day while BG was out of control.
    > Things like rolls, bread, oatmeal, OJ, milk, fruit, etc.
    > Lots of starch IMO. :)

    That's still less carbs than I ate pre-diabetes.

    --
    Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
     
  18. really!!! that's amazing, Cheri. no wonder some folks here
    hate going to their doctor or speaking to anyone even
    remotely connected to the medical profession! Seems pretty
    wacky. I guess I lead a sheltered life. :)

    dave

    Cheri wrote:

    > The dietitian I HAD for one. 45 gram of carbs at each meal
    > 3 times a day, 15 gm of carbs for snacks 4 times a day.
    > Close to 200 carbs a day while BG was out of control.
    > Things like rolls, bread, oatmeal, OJ, milk, fruit, etc.
    > Lots of starch IMO. :)
    >
    > --
    > Cheri Type 2, no meds for now.
    >
    > Bay Area Dave wrote in message ...
    >
    >>so exactly WHO tells diabetics to eat "lots of starchy
    >>carbs?" No medical person or dietician ever told ME to eat
    >>"lots of starchy carbs". I question this person's "facts".
    >>
    >>dave
    >>
    >>Alan wrote: Thus, there is less and less
    >>
    >>>foundation for the advice given by dieticians for
    >>>diabetics to eat
    >
    > lots
    >
    >>>of starchy carbs and balance them with meds.
    >>>
    >>
     
  19. I'm blown away by that, Ozgirl. I guess I ignore dietary
    information at this point, as I've been on insulin since '78
    and don't bother to read current dietary fads or diets for
    T1 or T2 diabetics as I know what works for ME. Thanks for
    enlightening me to the nonsense that passes for information
    these days. I was under the impression that T2's would be on
    a very low carb diet. Having never spent a day as a T2, I'm
    not familiar with their needs, but I'd just ASSUMED that
    they would eat low carb.

    Do the recommendations for high carb diets make ANY sense to
    you for T2's? Is there some aspect of that diet that can be
    explained?

    dave

    Ozgirl wrote:

    > Bay Area Dave wrote:
    >
    >>so exactly WHO tells diabetics to eat "lots of starchy
    >>carbs?" No medical person or dietician ever told ME to
    >
    > eat
    >
    >>"lots of starchy carbs". I question this person's
    >
    > "facts".
    >
    > Mine did. 4 carb exchanges per main meal, 2 per snack.
    > Each carb exchange was approx 15 gr carb - so 60gr per
    > main meal, 30 per snack (3 snacks I was told to eat). I
    > see recommendations daily from different sources, that a
    > type 2 diabetic should eat high carb diet.
     
  20. Alan

    Alan Guest

    On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 00:55:41 -0400, "Julie Bove"
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> so exactly WHO tells diabetics to eat "lots of starchy
    >> carbs?" No medical person or dietician ever told ME to
    >> eat "lots of starchy carbs". I question this person's
    >> "facts".
    >
    >Nobody told me that either, and I've seen three dieticians.
    >All of them gave me similar eating plans and all contained
    >less carbs than what I would have normally eaten.

    Hi Julie, and Dave.

    I mentioned the dietician's advice I received in the body of
    the letter. I include the ADA as well as DA because their
    recommendations tend to cross borders, so what happens there
    can affect us here.

    There are many sources of the high-carb advice, possibly two
    of the most relevant are:

    From the official ADA web-site (incidentally, Dave, you'll
    note they don't distinguish between type 1 and 2):

    http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-and-
    recipes/nutrition/starches.jsp

    "The Diabetes Food Pyramid: Starches

    The message today: Eat more starches! It is healthiest for
    everyone to eat more whole grains, beans, and starchy
    vegetables such as peas, corn, potatoes and winter squash.
    Starches are good for you because they have very little fat,
    saturated fat, or cholesterol. They are packed with
    vitamins, minerals, and fiber. Yes, foods with carbohydrate
    -- starches, vegetables, fruits, and dairy products -- will
    raise your blood glucose more quickly than meats and fats,
    but they are the healthiest foods for you. Your doctor may
    need to adjust your medications when you eat more
    carbohydrates. You may need to increase your activity level
    or try spacing carbohydrates throughout the day. "

    From Diabetes Australia "Healthy Eating" http://www.diabet-
    esaustralia.com.au/multilingualdiabetes/healthpros/foodnut-
    /healthy.htm "A good eating pattern for a person with
    diabetes will:
    * Contain mostly high fibre carbohydrate foods -
    wholegrain cereals and bread, vegetables and fruit
    * Be low in saturated fat
    * Provide adequate protein for good health

    Diabetes and your Diet

    Healthy eating helps control blood glucose levels Choose
    * Mainly carbohydrates (for example, wholegrain breads,
    pasta, rice (eg Basmati or Doongara), legumes,
    vegetables and fruit)
    * Be moderate in protein intake (for example, lean meat,
    skinless chicken, fish and eggs)
    * Select foods high in fibre (for example, wholegrain
    bread, fruit and vegetables) etc"

    DA has a similar recommendation specifically for eating
    fruit, but with a slightly more balanced approach at: http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-and-
    recipes/nutrition/fruit.jsp

    Hope this partly clarifies my reason for writing.

    Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and
    carbs to email.
    --
    Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
     
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