Comments Please; long.

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by Alan, Jun 4, 2004.

  1. I AVOID eating rice, pasta and potatoes! On occasion I'll
    eat them, but not as a general rule.

    dave

    Philip Smith wrote:

    > Bay Area Dave wrote:
    >
    >> so exactly WHO tells diabetics to eat "lots of starchy
    >> carbs?" No medical person or dietician ever told ME to
    >> eat "lots of starchy carbs". I question this person's
    >> "facts".
    >>
    >> dave
    >>
    >> Alan wrote: Thus, there is less and less
    >>
    >>> foundation for the advice given by dieticians for
    >>> diabetics to eat lots of starchy carbs and balance them
    >>> with meds.
    >>>
    >>
    >
    > For example, http://www.diabetes.org.uk/eatwell/meal_plan-
    > ning/eightsteps.htm has "Eat regular meals based on
    > starchy carbohydrate foods such as bread, pasta, chapatis,
    > potatoes, rice and cereals. This will help you to control
    > your blood glucose levels. Whenever possible, choose
    > wholegrain varities that are high in fibre, like wholemeal
    > bread and wholemeal cereals to help maintain the health of
    > your digestive system and prevent problems such as
    > constipation. " This is from the major UK diabetes
    > charity. Note that the recommendations are qualitative
    > rather than quantitative. {hilip
     


  2. Julie Bove

    Julie Bove Guest

    "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:98yvc.7826[email protected]...
    > I'm blown away by that, Ozgirl. I guess I ignore dietary
    > information at this point, as I've been on insulin since
    > '78 and don't bother to read current dietary fads or diets
    > for T1 or T2 diabetics as I know what works for ME. Thanks
    > for enlightening me to the nonsense that passes for
    > information these days. I was under the impression that
    > T2's would be on a very low carb diet. Having never spent
    > a day as a T2, I'm not familiar with their needs, but I'd
    > just ASSUMED that they would eat low carb.
    >
    > Do the recommendations for high carb diets make ANY sense
    > to you for T2's? Is there some aspect of that diet that
    > can be explained?

    The three dieticians I've seen advised neither a high carb
    or a low carb diet. Yes, some people would call the diet I'm
    on now high carb. On a good day, that would be about 170 g
    of carbs. I've had to cut back though. Can eat very few
    carbs at breakfast and now it seems, very few at lunch as
    well. The last dietician I saw cautioned me against eating
    too much fat or protein. She wanted me to have only 1 oz. of
    protein for each of my three meals and none for my snack. I
    don't know about you, but that's not enough to keep me from
    being hungry. Also, when you take away the fat and protein,
    there's nothing left but carbs.

    --
    Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
     
  3. Sjd

    Sjd Guest

    thanks for the clarification, Alan. I'm still incredulous at
    their suggestions. I discussed this briefly with my wife
    late last night to see if she'd heard the same thing years
    ago and sure enough, she said yes. seems crazy to me.

    dave

    Alan wrote:

    > On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 00:55:41 -0400, "Julie Bove"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>news:[email protected]...
    >>
    >>>so exactly WHO tells diabetics to eat "lots of starchy
    >>>carbs?" No medical person or dietician ever told ME to
    >>>eat "lots of starchy carbs". I question this person's
    >>>"facts".
    >>
    >>Nobody told me that either, and I've seen three
    >>dieticians. All of them gave me similar eating plans
    >>and all contained less carbs than what I would have
    >>normally eaten.
    >
    >
    >
    > Hi Julie, and Dave.
    >
    > I mentioned the dietician's advice I received in the body
    > of the letter. I include the ADA as well as DA because
    > their recommendations tend to cross borders, so what
    > happens there can affect us here.
    >
    > There are many sources of the high-carb advice, possibly
    > two of the most relevant are:
    >
    > From the official ADA web-site (incidentally, Dave, you'll
    > note they don't distinguish between type 1 and 2):
    >
    > http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-and-
    > recipes/nutrition/starches.jsp
    >
    > "The Diabetes Food Pyramid: Starches
    >
    > The message today: Eat more starches! It is healthiest
    > for everyone to eat more whole grains, beans, and starchy
    > vegetables such as peas, corn, potatoes and winter
    > squash. Starches are good for you because they have very
    > little fat, saturated fat, or cholesterol. They are
    > packed with vitamins, minerals, and fiber. Yes, foods
    > with carbohydrate -- starches, vegetables, fruits, and
    > dairy products -- will raise your blood glucose more
    > quickly than meats and fats, but they are the healthiest
    > foods for you. Your doctor may need to adjust your
    > medications when you eat more carbohydrates. You may need
    > to increase your activity level or try spacing
    > carbohydrates throughout the day. "
    >
    >
    > From Diabetes Australia "Healthy Eating" http://www.diabe-
    > tesaustralia.com.au/multilingualdiabetes/healthpros/foodn-
    > ut/healthy.htm "A good eating pattern for a person with
    > diabetes will:
    > * Contain mostly high fibre carbohydrate foods -
    > wholegrain cereals and bread, vegetables and fruit
    > * Be low in saturated fat
    > * Provide adequate protein for good health
    >
    > Diabetes and your Diet
    >
    > Healthy eating helps control blood glucose levels Choose
    > * Mainly carbohydrates (for example, wholegrain
    > breads, pasta, rice (eg Basmati or Doongara),
    > legumes, vegetables and fruit)
    > * Be moderate in protein intake (for example, lean
    > meat, skinless chicken, fish and eggs)
    > * Select foods high in fibre (for example, wholegrain
    > bread, fruit and vegetables) etc"
    >
    > DA has a similar recommendation specifically for eating
    > fruit, but with a slightly more balanced approach at: http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-and-
    > recipes/nutrition/fruit.jsp
    >
    > Hope this partly clarifies my reason for writing.
    >
    >
    > Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and carbs
    > to email.
     
  4. Herman Rubin

    Herman Rubin Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
    >I'm blown away by that, Ozgirl. I guess I ignore dietary
    >information at this point, as I've been on insulin since
    >'78 and don't bother to read current dietary fads or diets
    >for T1 or T2 diabetics as I know what works for ME.

    I have not been on insulin that long, but I do not ignore
    dietary information. Even before the glycemic index came
    out, I questioned the almost universal objection to fats and
    the recommendation to get more carbohydrates. I have
    recently changed to a lower carbohydrate, higher fat diet,
    and I seem to have better lipids, and at least as good
    control of blood glucose.

    Thanks for
    >enlightening me to the nonsense that passes for information
    >these days. I was under the impression that T2's would be
    >on a very low carb diet. Having never spent a day as a T2,
    >I'm not familiar with their needs, but I'd just ASSUMED
    >that they would eat low carb.

    >Do the recommendations for high carb diets make ANY sense
    >to you for T2's? Is there some aspect of that diet that can
    >be explained?

    >dave

    >Ozgirl wrote:

    >> Bay Area Dave wrote:

    >>>so exactly WHO tells diabetics to eat "lots of starchy
    >>>carbs?" No medical person or dietician ever told ME to

    >> eat

    >>>"lots of starchy carbs". I question this person's

    >> "facts".

    >> Mine did. 4 carb exchanges per main meal, 2 per snack.
    >> Each carb exchange was approx 15 gr carb - so 60gr per
    >> main meal, 30 per snack (3 snacks I was told to eat). I
    >> see recommendations daily from different sources, that a
    >> type 2 diabetic should eat high carb diet.

    --
    This address is for information only. I do not claim that
    these views are those of the Statistics Department or of
    Purdue University. Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics,
    Purdue University [email protected] Phone: (765)494-
    6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
     
  5. "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    Having never spent a day as a T2,
    > I'm not familiar with their needs, but I'd just ASSUMED
    > that they would eat low carb.

    compared to how i used to eat - i am eating much lower
    carbs.

    >
    > Do the recommendations for high carb diets make ANY sense
    > to you for T2's? Is there some aspect of that diet that
    > can be explained?

    i think it would be pretty hard to find a doctor that does
    not promote high fat and or high proteins diets to call -
    what is believed by most to be the heathiest diet for people
    ( with or without diabetes) by most scientists a high carb
    diet - they will most likely call it a low fat diet. to
    answer your question above The message today: Eat more
    starches! It is healthiest for everyone to eat more whole
    grains, beans, and starchy vegetables such as peas, corn,
    potatoes and winter squash. Starches are good for you
    because they have very little fat, saturated fat, or
    cholesterol. They are packed with vitamins, minerals, and
    fiber. Yes, foods with carbohydrate -- starches, vegetables,
    fruits, and dairy products -- will raise your blood glucose
    more quickly than meats and fats, but they are the
    healthiest foods for you. Your doctor may ( may does not
    mean will )need to adjust your medications when you eat more
    carbohydrates. You may need to increase your activity level
    or try spacing carbohydrates throughout the day. " before
    anyone starts on the medications band wagon - I am off
    medications. Thomas Muffaletto

    >
    > dave
     
  6. I don't ignore the labels, OR what I eat. I just don't read
    articles pertaining to the current thinking regarding what a
    diabetic "should" be eating.

    dave

    Herman Rubin wrote:

    > I have not been on insulin that long, but I do not ignore
    > dietary information.
     
  7. Jefferson

    Jefferson Guest

    Alan:

    > To the editor,
    >
    > I would hope that you will publish this letter,
    > despite the obvious disagreement with your standard
    > dietary policy.
    >

    I suppose that what you are proposing for your letter is
    about what I am in agreement with so I would not critique it
    negatively. In most of the letter's to the editor sections I
    have seen clauses that permit editing by the staff.
    Hopefully the heart of your message won't get clipped.

    Frank
     
  8. Alan

    Alan Guest

    On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 21:16:56 -0500, "t2_lurking"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >It all seems good to me personally. Has it been cathartic
    >for you? Do you think it will be printed in its entirety?
    >And the correct spelling is realize, stabilized, and of
    >course program, not programme. Oh, wait that's right, upside-
    >down land, so I guess it is programme.
    >
    >Good for you! It's always encouraging to see people
    >speak out.
    >
    >--
    >gingersnap

    Hi t2

    I thought I knew the true meaning of cathartic, but I
    double-checked.

    \Ca*thar"tic\, Catharical \Ca*thar"ic*al\, a. [Gr. ?, fr. ?
    to cleanse, fr. ? pure; akin to F. chaste.]

    1. (Med.) Cleansing the bowels; promoting evacuations by
    stool; purgative.

    2. Of or pertaining to the purgative principle of senna, as
    cathartic acid.

    or:

    adj 1: emotionally purging [syn: psychotherapeutic] 2:
    emotionally purging (of e.g. art) [syn: releasing] 3:
    strongly laxative [syn: evacuant, purgative] n : a purging
    medicine; stimulates evacuation of the bowels [syn:
    purgative, laxative, physic, aperient]

    I suspect you meant the emotional sense of the word; but no,
    it isn't cathartic - in either sense:)

    Now, if we were speaking about some of the trollsters....

    Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and
    carbs to email.
    --
    Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
     
  9. Jefferson

    Jefferson Guest

    Cheri wrote:
    > The dietitian I HAD for one. 45 gram of carbs at each meal
    > 3 times a day, 15 gm of carbs for snacks 4 times a day.
    > Close to 200 carbs a day while BG was out of control.
    > Things like rolls, bread, oatmeal, OJ, milk, fruit, etc.
    > Lots of starch IMO. :)
    >

    The dietician I had gave exactly the same carbs levels at
    meals and snacks as yours did. I believe that this is a
    prescription for failure when it comes to blood glucose
    control. Ten years from now or less these dieticians will
    probably get sued for malpractice if they are still
    promoting the same diet.

    Frank
     
  10. Hemyd

    Hemyd Guest

    "Wes Groleau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In the U.S., this doctrine comes from the American
    > Diabetes Association, from people who believe what they
    > had to say to earn the "Certified Diabetes Educator" and
    > from doctors and dietitians who haven't paid any attention
    > to medical research in the last umpteen years.
    >
    > --
    > Wes Groleau
    >
    > A bureaucrat is someone who cuts red tape lengthwise.

    This "Certified" thing bothers me - what if the certificate
    was obtained in 1952? A few doctors I met didn't seem to
    bother with updating their knowledge....

    Henry Australia
     
  11. Jefferson

    Jefferson Guest

    Alan:

    > Hi t2
    >
    > I thought I knew the true meaning of cathartic, but I double-
    > checked.
    >
    > \Ca*thar"tic\, Catharical \Ca*thar"ic*al\, a. [Gr. ?, fr.
    > ? to cleanse, fr. ? pure; akin to F. chaste.]
    >
    > 1. (Med.) Cleansing the bowels; promoting evacuations by
    > stool; purgative.
    >
    > 2. Of or pertaining to the purgative principle of senna,
    > as cathartic acid.
    >
    > or:
    >
    > adj 1: emotionally purging [syn: psychotherapeutic] 2:
    > emotionally purging (of e.g. art) [syn: releasing] 3:
    > strongly laxative [syn: evacuant, purgative] n : a purging
    > medicine; stimulates evacuation of the bowels [syn:
    > purgative, laxative, physic, aperient]
    >
    > I suspect you meant the emotional sense of the word; but
    > no, it isn't cathartic - in either sense:)
    >

    How about a cerebral cathartic? It wouldn't hurt some people
    to have a new deck. :) Maybe even me!

    Frank
     
  12. Annette

    Annette Guest

    "Jefferson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    > Alan:
    >
    > > Hi t2
    > >
    > > I thought I knew the true meaning of cathartic, but I
    > > double-checked.
    > >
    > > \Ca*thar"tic\, Catharical \Ca*thar"ic*al\, a. [Gr. ?,
    > > fr. ? to cleanse, fr. ? pure; akin to F. chaste.]
    > >
    > > 1. (Med.) Cleansing the bowels; promoting evacuations by
    > > stool; purgative.
    > >
    > > 2. Of or pertaining to the purgative principle of senna,
    > > as cathartic acid.
    > >
    > > or:
    > >
    > > adj 1: emotionally purging [syn: psychotherapeutic] 2:
    > > emotionally purging (of e.g. art) [syn: releasing] 3:
    > > strongly laxative [syn: evacuant, purgative] n : a
    > > purging medicine; stimulates evacuation of the bowels
    > > [syn: purgative, laxative, physic, aperient]
    > >
    > > I suspect you meant the emotional sense of the word; but
    > > no, it isn't cathartic - in either sense:)
    > >
    >
    > How about a cerebral cathartic? It wouldn't hurt some
    > people to have a new deck. :) Maybe even me!
    >
    > Frank
    >

    How about the old game of 48 card pickup? ;-)

    Annette The scatter-brain.
     
  13. Alan

    Alan Guest

    On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 23:43:19 +1000, "Annette" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >How about the old game of 48 card pickup? ;-)
    >
    >
    >Annette The scatter-brain.

    You do realise that means you weren't playing with a
    full deck?

    Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and
    carbs to email.
    --
    Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
     
  14. Jefferson

    Jefferson Guest

    Alan wrote:

    > On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 23:43:19 +1000, "Annette"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>How about the old game of 48 card pickup? ;-)
    >>
    >>
    >>Annette The scatter-brain.
    >
    >
    > You do realise that means you weren't playing with a
    > full deck?
    >

    Does that mean the joker and 3 others?
     
  15. Annette

    Annette Guest

    "Alan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 23:43:19 +1000, "Annette"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >How about the old game of 48 card pickup? ;-)
    > >
    > >
    > >Annette The scatter-brain.
    >
    > You do realise that means you weren't playing with a
    > full deck?
    >
    > Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and carbs
    > to email.
    > --
    > Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

    Yes.

    Well, I do now!

    See what I mean?

    Poker anyone?

    Annette
     
  16. Alan

    Alan Guest

    On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 20:19:06 -0400, Jefferson <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >
    >
    >Alan wrote:
    >
    >> On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 23:43:19 +1000, "Annette"
    >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>How about the old game of 48 card pickup? ;-)
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Annette The scatter-brain.
    >>
    >>
    >> You do realise that means you weren't playing with a
    >> full deck?
    >>
    >
    >Does that mean the joker and 3 others?

    I think I may hold a high stakes poker night; you and
    Annette are the first to be invited:)

    Joker makes 53. A-10, JQK x 4 = 52.

    Over here, not playing with a full deck is like "his
    elevator doesn't go to the top floor" or "a shilling short
    of a quid", in modern times "ten cents short of a dollar".

    Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and
    carbs to email.
    --
    Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
     
  17. Alan wrote:
    >
    > Over here, not playing with a full deck is like "his
    > elevator doesn't go to the top floor"

    Same here. As well as "a few bricks short of a load" and
    many other similar sayings. :)
    --
    Debbie
     
  18. Alan

    Alan Guest

    On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 11:03:56 +1000, Alan
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >G'day All
    >
    >X-posted to misc.health.diabetes, alt.support.diabetes
    >
    >I would appreciate comments on the draft letter below. The
    >letter is intended for my local Diabetes Australia
    >quarterly magazine.
    >
    >I feel a little like Spartacus heading off to the arena;
    >"we who are about to die salute you". I'm not an expert,
    >so I know I'm asking to be drawn and quartered here, but
    >I'd respect informed, civil criticism before I "go to
    >press" :)
    >
    >If I'm wrong or uninformed, I'm happy to debate the point
    >or modify the letter as long as things stay civil.

    Thanks to everyone who gave advice on my draft letter, both
    here and by email. I've included a copy of the final epistle
    below. I sent it today, so too late to tell me it's a load
    of garbage now :)

    It will be interesting to see if they publish, I may be too
    late for this quarter's edition. I cut the words down from
    1200+ to about 520.

    Thanks again for the constructive advice.

    Letter:

    To The Editor I am eternally grateful for the work the
    pioneers at Diabetes Australia did in helping us get the
    NDSS and the support system that we now have. The
    organisation continues to do a great job. But I have a basic
    difficulty with the logic of the dietary advice recommended
    by your dieticians.

    I see their advice like this:
    1. Dieticians advise high complex carbohydrate consumption,
    apparently for heart, kidney and vascular health;
    2. High complex carbohydrate consumption causes high blood
    glucose levels;
    3. High blood glucose levels cause diabetic
    complications such as retinopathy, neuropathy,
    nephropathy and heart disease;
    4. DA dieticians therefore recommend balancing the high
    complex carbohydrate consumption with medication or
    insulin to control blood glucose levels. This advice
    appears to be in line with the recommendations of
    overseas organisations such as the American Diabetes
    Association (ADA).

    Specific examples can be found on the DA web-site at ht-
    tp://www.diabetesaustralia.com.au/multilingualdiabetes/-
    healthpros/foodnut/healthy.htm or the ADA web-site at
    http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-and-
    recipes/nutrition/starches.jsp .

    My difficulty in understanding this is because no-one
    seems to be investigating the alternative approaches. I
    don't mean herbs and supplements, just a better diet for
    diabetics, together with exercise, to enable minimal
    medication.

    To me, the most obvious alternative is to search for a
    diet for the diabetic which provides adequate nutrition
    for good health but does not cause high blood glucose
    levels. If such a diet is possible it would minimise the
    need for medication, particularly for type 2, with side
    benefits for overall health and health costs. I can
    attest that it is possible; I've done it, as have many
    others. However, when diabetics write to give examples,
    such as K ...... in the Autumn issue, they are dismissed
    and told that their improvement must be because of
    exercise, or weight loss, or some other factor.

    The method I followed, as a type 2, was simple. I
    started with a standard, sensible diet to lose weight.
    Then, as I followed that diet, I tested everything I
    ate one hour and two hours after I ate it. If I
    consistently found that something led to high blood
    glucose, I changed
    it. Sometimes I changed the food, sometimes the quantity,
    sometimes the timing, but always the aim was to
    minimise "spikes". Gradually I found I was eating
    significantly less carbohydrates, a little more protein
    and a little more "good" oils. And I did a little "lazy
    man's" exercise along the way. I also gradually reduced
    the high level of initial testing as results became
    predictable.

    After attaining a degree of control over my blood
    glucose, I now progressively review my diet to ensure
    there are no missing nutritional requirements and to
    further improve lipids etc. At diagnosis in 2002 my
    HbA1c was 8.2, now it's 5.9 and I take no diabetes
    medications. It's a long time since I've seen a "spike"
    over 8, rarely over 7.5. The improvements continued long
    after I reached my target weight. And my heart, blood
    pressure, lipids, kidneys and so on are also in good
    shape. Why do your dieticians continue to promote high
    carbohydrate consumption? What is it I'm missing, apart
    from complications?

    Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and
    carbs to email.
    --
    Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
     
  19. Tiger Lily

    Tiger Lily Guest

    well done...... hope they print it all for you!

    kate
    --
    Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet
    /server irc.undernet.org --- /join #Diabetic-Talk More
    info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/

    "Alan" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:[email protected]...
    > On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 11:03:56 +1000, Alan
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >G'day All
    > >
    > >X-posted to misc.health.diabetes, alt.support.diabetes
    > >
    > >I would appreciate comments on the draft letter below.
    > >The letter is intended for my local Diabetes Australia
    > >quarterly magazine.
    > >
    > >I feel a little like Spartacus heading off to the arena;
    > >"we who are about to die salute you". I'm not an expert,
    > >so I know I'm asking to be drawn and quartered here, but
    > >I'd respect informed, civil criticism before I "go to
    > >press" :)
    > >
    > >If I'm wrong or uninformed, I'm happy to debate the point
    > >or modify the letter as long as things stay civil.
    >
    > Thanks to everyone who gave advice on my draft letter,
    > both here and by email. I've included a copy of the final
    > epistle below. I sent it today, so too late to tell me
    > it's a load of garbage now :)
    >
    > It will be interesting to see if they publish, I may be
    > too late for this quarter's edition. I cut the words down
    > from 1200+ to about 520.
    >
    > Thanks again for the constructive advice.
    >
    > Letter:
    >
    > To The Editor I am eternally grateful for the work the
    > pioneers at Diabetes Australia did in helping us get the
    > NDSS and the support system that we now have. The
    > organisation continues to do a great job. But I have a
    > basic difficulty with the logic of the dietary advice
    > recommended by your dieticians.
    >
    > I see their advice like this:
    > 1. Dieticians advise high complex carbohydrate
    > consumption, apparently for heart, kidney and vascular
    > health;
    > 2. High complex carbohydrate consumption causes high blood
    > glucose levels;
    > 3. High blood glucose levels cause diabetic complications
    > such as retinopathy, neuropathy, nephropathy and heart
    > disease;
    > 4. DA dieticians therefore recommend balancing the high
    > complex carbohydrate consumption with medication or
    > insulin to control blood glucose levels. This advice
    > appears to be in line with the recommendations of
    > overseas organisations such as the American Diabetes
    > Association (ADA).
    >
    > Specific examples can be found on the DA web-site at
    >
    http://www.diabetesaustralia.com.au/multilingualdiabetes/he-
    althpros/foodnut/healthy.htm
    > or the ADA web-site at http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-and-
    > recipes/nutrition/starches.jsp .
    >
    > My difficulty in understanding this is because no-one
    > seems to be investigating the alternative approaches.
    > I don't mean herbs and supplements, just a better diet
    > for diabetics, together with exercise, to enable
    > minimal medication.
    >
    > To me, the most obvious alternative is to search for a
    > diet for the diabetic which provides adequate
    > nutrition for good health but does not cause high
    > blood glucose levels. If such a diet is possible it
    > would minimise the need for medication, particularly
    > for type 2, with side benefits for overall health and
    > health costs. I can attest that it is possible; I've
    > done it, as have many others. However, when diabetics
    > write to give examples, such as K ...... in the Autumn
    > issue, they are dismissed and told that their
    > improvement must be because of exercise, or weight
    > loss, or some other factor.
    >
    > The method I followed, as a type 2, was simple. I
    > started with a standard, sensible diet to lose weight.
    > Then, as I followed that diet, I tested everything I
    > ate one hour and two hours after I ate it. If I
    > consistently found that something led to high blood
    > glucose, I changed
    > it. Sometimes I changed the food, sometimes the quantity,
    > sometimes the timing, but always the aim was to
    > minimise "spikes". Gradually I found I was eating
    > significantly less carbohydrates, a little more
    > protein and a little more "good" oils. And I did a
    > little "lazy man's" exercise along the way. I also
    > gradually reduced the high level of initial testing
    > as results became predictable.
    >
    > After attaining a degree of control over my blood
    > glucose, I now progressively review my diet to ensure
    > there are no missing nutritional requirements and to
    > further improve lipids etc. At diagnosis in 2002 my
    > HbA1c was 8.2, now it's 5.9 and I take no diabetes
    > medications. It's a long time since I've seen a
    > "spike" over 8, rarely over 7.5. The improvements
    > continued long after I reached my target weight. And
    > my heart, blood pressure, lipids, kidneys and so on
    > are also in good shape. Why do your dieticians
    > continue to promote high carbohydrate consumption?
    > What is it I'm missing, apart from complications?
    >
    > Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and carbs
    > to email.
    > --
    > Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
     
  20. W. Baker

    W. Baker Guest

    In alt.support.diabetes Alan <[email protected]> wrote:
    : On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 11:03:56 +1000, Alan
    : <[email protected]> wrote:

    : >G'day All
    : >
    : >X-posted to misc.health.diabetes, alt.support.diabetes
    : >
    : >I would appreciate comments on the draft letter below.
    : >The letter is intended for my local Diabetes Australia
    : >quarterly magazine.
    : >
    : >I feel a little like Spartacus heading off to the arena;
    : >"we who are about to die salute you". I'm not an expert,
    : >so I know I'm asking to be drawn and quartered here, but
    : >I'd respect informed, civil criticism before I "go to
    : >press" :)
    : >
    : >If I'm wrong or uninformed, I'm happy to debate the point
    : >or modify the letter as long as things stay civil.

    : Thanks to everyone who gave advice on my draft letter,
    : both here and by email. I've included a copy of the final
    : epistle below. I sent it today, so too late to tell me
    : it's a load of garbage now :)

    : It will be interesting to see if they publish, I may be
    : too late for this quarter's edition. I cut the words down
    : from 1200+ to about 520.

    : Thanks again for the constructive advice.

    : Letter:

    : To The Editor I am eternally grateful for the work the
    : pioneers at Diabetes Australia did in helping us get the
    : NDSS and the support system that we now have. The
    : organisation continues to do a great job. But I have a
    : basic difficulty with the logic of the dietary advice
    : recommended by your dieticians.

    : I see their advice like this:
    : 1. Dieticians advise high complex carbohydrate
    : consumption, apparently for heart, kidney and vascular
    : health;
    : 2. High complex carbohydrate consumption causes high blood
    : glucose levels;
    : 3. High blood glucose levels cause diabetic complications
    : such as retinopathy, neuropathy, nephropathy and heart
    : disease;
    : 4. DA dieticians therefore recommend balancing the high
    : complex carbohydrate consumption with medication or
    : insulin to control blood glucose levels. This advice
    : appears to be in line with the recommendations of
    : overseas organisations such as the American Diabetes
    : Association (ADA).

    : Specific examples can be found on the DA web-site at
    : http://www.diabetesaustralia.com.au/multilingualdiabe-
    : tes/healthpros/foodnut/healthy.htm or the ADA web-site
    : at http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-and-
    : recipes/nutrition/starches.jsp .

    : My difficulty in understanding this is because no-one
    : seems to be investigating the alternative approaches.
    : I don't mean herbs and supplements, just a better diet
    : for diabetics, together with exercise, to enable
    : minimal medication.

    : To me, the most obvious alternative is to search for a
    : diet for the diabetic which provides adequate
    : nutrition for good health but does not cause high
    : blood glucose levels. If such a diet is possible it
    : would minimise the need for medication, particularly
    : for type 2, with side benefits for overall health and
    : health costs. I can attest that it is possible; I've
    : done it, as have many others. However, when diabetics
    : write to give examples, such as K ...... in the Autumn
    : issue, they are dismissed and told that their
    : improvement must be because of exercise, or weight
    : loss, or some other factor.

    : The method I followed, as a type 2, was simple. I
    : started with a standard, sensible diet to lose weight.
    : Then, as I followed that diet, I tested everything I
    : ate one hour and two hours after I ate it. If I
    : consistently found that something led to high blood
    : glucose, I changed
    : it. Sometimes I changed the food, sometimes the quantity,
    : sometimes the timing, but always the aim was to
    : minimise "spikes". Gradually I found I was eating
    : significantly less carbohydrates, a little more
    : protein and a little more "good" oils. And I did a
    : little "lazy man's" exercise along the way. I also
    : gradually reduced the high level of initial testing
    : as results became predictable.

    : After attaining a degree of control over my blood
    : glucose, I now progressively review my diet to ensure
    : there are no missing nutritional requirements and to
    : further improve lipids etc. At diagnosis in 2002 my
    : HbA1c was 8.2, now it's 5.9 and I take no diabetes
    : medications. It's a long time since I've seen a
    : "spike" over 8, rarely over 7.5. The improvements
    : continued long after I reached my target weight. And
    : my heart, blood pressure, lipids, kidneys and so on
    : are also in good shape. Why do your dieticians
    : continue to promote high carbohydrate consumption?
    : What is it I'm missing, apart from complications?

    : Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and carbs
    : to email.
    : --

    : Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

    Very nicely said, Alan. I hope your pleasant manner in this
    letter doesn't cause them to take it lightly.

    Wendy
     
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