Commutting bike = excessive repairs



On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:14:20 +0100, "Pete Biggs"
<p@honeydewbiggs{remove_melon}.tc> wrote:

>Simon Brooke wrote:
>> If you're doing 75 miles a week you really need to lubricate at least
>> once a week in dry weather, more often in wet - and with a good
>> lubricant (e.g. Finish Line Cross Country). Lubricating after every
>> ride is better. And you really need to completely clean and
>> relubricate your chain at least once a month.

>
>Lubricating a chain without properly cleaning it first is worse than not
>re-lubricating at all as it will flush dirt into the innards.


Being both a lazy sod and a high mileage commuter, I do that all the
time. Chains last about 7.000 km, sprocket 14.000 (it's reversible).
Having a Rohloff helps, but 3 lengths of totally unprotected chain
doesn't, I'm sure.
I use (and swear by) Boeshiel T9 wax.
 
[email protected] wrote:

> 20p per mile sounds a bit high. For example a 500 quid bike
> depreciated over 5 yrs 100 quid a year. plus 300 quid a year
> maintainance on the bike and replacing cycling clothing. 400 quid a
> year.
> For someone with a 12 mile round trip commute 5 days a week, 48 weeks
> a year.
> 5 x 48 x 12 = 2880 miles
> 400 quid divided by 2880 miles is 13.8p a mile.
> Of course the beauty of a bike unlike a car is that if you stop using
> it for a month or two it's costing nothing as there isn't the standing
> cost cars have.
> And in my case cycling to work much of the time is lets us have one
> family car rather than two as due to shifts public transport is not an
> option.
> Iain
>


A while ago I started to produce a spreadsheet which would work out at what
point the saving in petrol would exceed the cost of using the bike. I thought it
would be straightforward with the bike winning hands down, but I was wrong. In
my case the bike does win, but only because I am doing a reasonably high annual
mileage.

If you want to try the process yourself I have thrown together a web page which
explains the Spreadsheet and allow you to open it. The spreadsheet is still as I
left it when I last did any work on it so don't expect a full colour, does
everything automagically, ready made system. This was lunch-time entertainment
only, but it is well commented so that I could pick it up again after a long
gap. Go to http://homepage.ntlworld.com/terry.duckmanton/costcalc.html

Have fun!

--
Terry Duckmanton.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/terry.duckmanton
A website mostly dedicated to cycling
 
"Terry D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> 20p per mile sounds a bit high. For example a 500 quid bike
>> depreciated over 5 yrs 100 quid a year. plus 300 quid a year
>> maintainance on the bike and replacing cycling clothing. 400 quid a
>> year.
>> For someone with a 12 mile round trip commute 5 days a week, 48 weeks
>> a year.
>> 5 x 48 x 12 = 2880 miles
>> 400 quid divided by 2880 miles is 13.8p a mile.
>> Of course the beauty of a bike unlike a car is that if you stop using
>> it for a month or two it's costing nothing as there isn't the standing
>> cost cars have.
>> And in my case cycling to work much of the time is lets us have one
>> family car rather than two as due to shifts public transport is not an
>> option.
>> Iain
>>

>
> A while ago I started to produce a spreadsheet which would work out at
> what point the saving in petrol would exceed the cost of using the bike. I
> thought it would be straightforward with the bike winning hands down, but
> I was wrong. In my case the bike does win, but only because I am doing a
> reasonably high annual mileage.
>
> If you want to try the process yourself I have thrown together a web page
> which explains the Spreadsheet and allow you to open it. The spreadsheet
> is still as I left it when I last did any work on it so don't expect a
> full colour, does everything automagically, ready made system. This was
> lunch-time entertainment only, but it is well commented so that I could
> pick it up again after a long gap. Go to
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/terry.duckmanton/costcalc.html
>
> Have fun!
>
> --
> Terry Duckmanton.
>
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/terry.duckmanton
> A website mostly dedicated to cycling


Anyone looked at their wiggle account lately? Aaaaaarrrrrgghhhh!!!!!
 
Total estimated at : 785 GBP. Original purchase price was 300GBP.
..d

30k km for £785 is about 2.6p per km. More than my rough estimate
(2p/km) but same order of magnitude. Where did this figure of 20p per
mile come from?

OT but I'm doing this via google groups beta - how do you quote from
original posts - sometimes it appears in pale blue with > signs,
sometimes not?
 
[email protected] wrote:
> Total estimated at : 785 GBP. Original purchase price was 300GBP.
> .d
>
> 30k km for £785 is about 2.6p per km. More than my rough estimate
> (2p/km) but same order of magnitude. Where did this figure of 20p per
> mile come from?


When I had a higher disposable income and was maintaining a racing bike
in top condition. The commuter suffers till it really needs things
doing.

>
> OT but I'm doing this via google groups beta - how do you quote from
> original posts - sometimes it appears in pale blue with > signs,
> sometimes not?


Click options>reply. Add a blank line between your text and that from
which you are quoting.

...d
 
[email protected] wrote:

> Total estimated at : 785 GBP. Original purchase price was 300GBP.
> .d
>
> 30k km for £785 is about 2.6p per km. More than my rough estimate
> (2p/km) but same order of magnitude. Where did this figure of 20p per
> mile come from?


Adding on things like clothes, food, shop rates for maintenance,
anything else you can think of in order to get a decent mileage rate
from your employer and/or Inland Revenue :)

James
--
James Annan
see web pages for email
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/
http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/
 
In article <[email protected]>,
LSMike <[email protected]> wrote:
> Anyone looked at their wiggle account lately?
> Aaaaaarrrrrgghhhh!!!!!



I'll bet you that my spares account is slightly higher than yours and
I do purchase some bits from Wiggle because of their very fast
delivery.

Last spares bill was in excess of £500.

--
A T (Sandy) Morton
on the Bicycle Island
In the Global Village
http://www.millport.net
 
James Annan wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > Total estimated at : 785 GBP. Original purchase price was 300GBP.
> > .d
> >
> > 30k km for £785 is about 2.6p per km. More than my rough estimate
> > (2p/km) but same order of magnitude. Where did this figure of 20p per
> > mile come from?

>
> Adding on things like clothes, food, shop rates for maintenance,
> anything else you can think of in order to get a decent mileage rate
> from your employer and/or Inland Revenue :)


I didn't add the cake budget.. nor the clippy shoes, the panniers,
jacket, shorts, lights etc.

Still comes out at a pretty low figure..

...d
 
David Martin wrote:
>
> James Annan wrote:
>
>>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Total estimated at : 785 GBP. Original purchase price was 300GBP.
>>>.d
>>>
>>>30k km for £785 is about 2.6p per km. More than my rough estimate
>>>(2p/km) but same order of magnitude. Where did this figure of 20p per
>>>mile come from?

>>
>>Adding on things like clothes, food, shop rates for maintenance,
>>anything else you can think of in order to get a decent mileage rate
>>from your employer and/or Inland Revenue :)

>
>
> I didn't add the cake budget.. nor the clippy shoes, the panniers,
> jacket, shorts, lights etc.
>
> Still comes out at a pretty low figure..
>
> ..d
>

I dunno. My cake and chocky beer and icecream budget could be a bit
cheaper.
 
That's interesting. And proves that the bike wins, even when you only
consider the price of petrol. If you were to factor in the other costs
of a car, the savings would be greater. The government figures of
40p/mile for a car and 20p/mile for a bike are reckoned to be fairly
accurate (for newer vehicles, maintained by a garage/LBS).

I reckon some of your estimates lean heavily on the pessimistic side -
I've currenltly done 2031 miles on my new bike and the chain is still
less than 0.75% stretched, I used 1 pot of lube, the tyres look good
for at least the same again and brake blocks barely worn (despite
several mountain ranges). It'll take a while before I know of the
higher-mileage things, and you're right about derailleurs and BB, they
would almost certainly need changing at about the same rate as the
pedals or chainset.
 
dave wrote:
> David Martin wrote:
> >
> > James Annan wrote:
> >
> >>[email protected] wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Total estimated at : 785 GBP. Original purchase price was 300GBP.
> >>>.d
> >>>
> >>>30k km for £785 is about 2.6p per km. More than my rough estimate
> >>>(2p/km) but same order of magnitude. Where did this figure of 20p per
> >>>mile come from?
> >>
> >>Adding on things like clothes, food, shop rates for maintenance,
> >>anything else you can think of in order to get a decent mileage rate
> >>from your employer and/or Inland Revenue :)

> >
> >
> > I didn't add the cake budget.. nor the clippy shoes, the panniers,
> > jacket, shorts, lights etc.
> >
> > Still comes out at a pretty low figure..
> >
> > ..d
> >

> I dunno. My cake and chocky beer and icecream budget could be a bit
> cheaper.


And I left out the Altoids. (Not a pile remedy but a very nice mint!)

Jacob
 
David Martin <[email protected]> wrote:

: When I had a higher disposable income and was maintaining a racing bike
: in top condition. The commuter suffers till it really needs things
: doing.

I've never ever worked out what my posh bike costs me per mile. It'll be losts, and
that's dispite the fact that I do lots of miles on it!

All Record, Ti, new tyres every 1500 miles, new tubes every time, new chain
every two months, winter clothers, summer clothes, shades, two pairs of shoes,
etc etc. It wouldn't surprise me if that came in (well) over 20p a mile.

It's a toy though and I'm not going to do the maths!

My commuting bike gets ridden in normal clothes (so the only extra expense is that
I have to buy new jeans more often), and only gets money spent on it when it
breaks. It cost Â120 second hand (after conversion to flat bars) and I've not
spent anything on it since in the 18 months I've had it.

So even if I binned it now (which I'm not going to) it'd be very cheap for the
30-40 commuting miles I do a week.

[Pause] [Does maths]

4-5p a mile.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera
 
James Annan <[email protected]> wrote:

: [re 20p a mile]
: Adding on things like clothes, food, shop rates for maintenance,
: anything else you can think of in order to get a decent mileage rate
: from your employer and/or Inland Revenue :)

A vital point, and one that should be re-made. When the CTC worked out these
figures they were trying to get the biggest number they could to get the
Inland Revenue's maximum allowable milage claim up from the 5p or so a
mile it was before.

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera
 
On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 09:16:27 GMT, Buck
<ian@*remove*trikesandstuff.co.uk> wrote:

>>> I've had my mountain bike since May 1999 and have spent almost twice the
>>> cost of the bike on repairs. I only do a 15 mile round trip 5 days a week
>>> with hardly any hill climbs and don't abuse the bike.


>> Depending on how much it cost in the first place, that may well be
>> reasonable.


>Define "repairs".


Quite. It's quite possible to spend more on tyres and chains for a
daily commuter bike over six years than the bike itself cost; add
labour and you soon find out why smart cyclists DIY :)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
 
iakobski wrote:

> I reckon some of your estimates lean heavily on the pessimistic side -
> I've currenltly done 2031 miles on my new bike and the chain is still
> less than 0.75% stretched,


But wear is not linear, depends on the conditions and load, and you
still have 15 times that mileage to get close to mine..

> I used 1 pot of lube, the tyres look good
> for at least the same again and brake blocks barely worn (despite
> several mountain ranges).


I forgot to add on the pint of engine oil for lubing..

> It'll take a while before I know of the
> higher-mileage things, and you're right about derailleurs and BB, they
> would almost certainly need changing at about the same rate as the
> pedals or chainset.


The first chainset was cheese and bent. The second was good but had
175mm cranks. The current one is the cheapest short cranks I could find
(162.5 and about 40 quid). There may have been another one in there
somewhere as well. I find it is worth buying components at near top of
the range. They last longer and end up being better value for money in
the long run.

...d
 
Arthur Clune wrote:
> David Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> : When I had a higher disposable income and was maintaining a racing bike
> : in top condition. The commuter suffers till it really needs things
> : doing.
>
> I've never ever worked out what my posh bike costs me per mile. It'll be losts, and
> that's dispite the fact that I do lots of miles on it!


I did for mine and even without depreciation it is 9p a mile, at which
point you really have to question if the record cassette is really
needed. It makes my commute 3.28 GBP a day, still cheaper than the car
or train and much more fun.

>
> All Record, Ti, new tyres every 1500 miles, new tubes every time, new chain
> every two months, winter clothers, summer clothes, shades, two pairs of shoes,
> etc etc. It wouldn't surprise me if that came in (well) over 20p a mile.
>
> It's a toy though and I'm not going to do the maths!


Very wise.

>
> My commuting bike gets ridden in normal clothes (so the only extra expense is that
> I have to buy new jeans more often), and only gets money spent on it when it
> breaks. It cost Â120 second hand (after conversion to flat bars) and I've not
> spent anything on it since in the 18 months I've had it.
>
> So even if I binned it now (which I'm not going to) it'd be very cheap for the
> 30-40 commuting miles I do a week.


My winter bike on the other hand has stablized at just 4p a mile for
consumables: tyres, tubes, chains, cassettes, brake blocks, bar tape
etc. I guess I should also factor in bulbs for the front lights and
batteries for the rear.

When using the shimano brake blocks it did also cost me a set of wheels
as the rims wore out. Also the 105 chain rings only lasted for 1 chain
as they appear to have been made of cheese. The TA rings have lasted
for 5 chains and show no sign of wear.

--chris
 
iakobski wrote:
> That's interesting. And proves that the bike wins, even when you only
> consider the price of petrol. If you were to factor in the other costs
> of a car, the savings would be greater. The government figures of
> 40p/mile for a car and 20p/mile for a bike are reckoned to be fairly
> accurate (for newer vehicles, maintained by a garage/LBS).
>
> I reckon some of your estimates lean heavily on the pessimistic side -


That was to some extent intentional, I was trying not to delude myself by
putting in figures that made the outcome favourable. Having said that a lot of
the wear rates had to be total guess work as I haven't yet kept a nice bike long
enough to find out how often some parts will need replacing. [1]

> I've currenltly done 2031 miles on my new bike and the chain is still
> less than 0.75% stretched,


I used to replace chains at 1500 to 2000 miles on the basis that early
replacement of the chain was preferable to early replacement of the cassette and
the chainset. I now have a measuring device which seems to be indicating that my
current chain will do a shade over 2000 miles, so my guesstimate wasn't far out
really. All weather commuting is not good news for chains.

> I used 1 pot of lube, the tyres look good
> for at least the same again and brake blocks barely worn (despite
> several mountain ranges). It'll take a while before I know of the
> higher-mileage things, and you're right about derailleurs and BB, they
> would almost certainly need changing at about the same rate as the
> pedals or chainset.
>


[1] The last bike still had a good chainset until it failed its attempt to
double up as a car ramp. The chainset snapped as a result. I have only owned my
current bike for just over a year so most of it still works.
--
Terry Duckmanton.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/terry.duckmanton
A website mostly dedicated to cycling
 
Terry D <[email protected]> writes:

>iakobski wrote:
>> That's interesting. And proves that the bike wins, even when you only
>> consider the price of petrol. If you were to factor in the other costs
>> of a car, the savings would be greater. The government figures of
>> 40p/mile for a car and 20p/mile for a bike are reckoned to be fairly
>> accurate (for newer vehicles, maintained by a garage/LBS).
>>
>> I reckon some of your estimates lean heavily on the pessimistic side -


>That was to some extent intentional, I was trying not to delude myself by
>putting in figures that made the outcome favourable. Having said that a lot of
>the wear rates had to be total guess work as I haven't yet kept a nice bike long
>enough to find out how often some parts will need replacing. [1]


>> I've currenltly done 2031 miles on my new bike and the chain is still
>> less than 0.75% stretched,


>I used to replace chains at 1500 to 2000 miles on the basis that early
>replacement of the chain was preferable to early replacement of the cassette and
>the chainset. I now have a measuring device which seems to be indicating that my
>current chain will do a shade over 2000 miles, so my guesstimate wasn't far out
>really. All weather commuting is not good news for chains.


A stretching chain will cause exaggerated wear on the gears. If chains
are weaker than gears in terms of mileage then wear can be optimised
(i.e. least pessimised) by runing two chains at the same time, and
swopping them every time you thoroughly clean and relube the chain. So
clean and lube one at your leisure while riding the other, and have
it ready to swop by simply pulling it through as you pull the other
off. Thus the chains wear out (and stretch) together along with a less
abused gear set. Or maybe the economical optimum would be three chains
in parallel with one gear set.
--
Chris Malcolm [email protected] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
 

Similar threads

P
Replies
7
Views
742
S