In article <
[email protected]>, ajames54 <
[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:58:31 -0800, Ryan Cousineau <
[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In article <
[email protected]>,
[email protected]
> >(
[email protected]) wrote:
> >
>
> >I'm a little surprised that nobody else seems to have noticed this particular
> >good-for-the-consumer side effect.
>
> Lower your expectations... why buy a 600 or Dura-ace equipped bike.. Sora is good enough and it's
> good for the consumer ... after all it works just the same so there is no difference right?
Well, I'm probably not the best to ask that rhetorical question, since my current bike is SunTour
PowerShift, and my next bike probably won't be better than Tiagra. The differences between Sora and
600, according to people I respect like Sheldon Brown, are one cog, some grams, the shifter button,
general finish, and lots of money.
> >It's not a bad thing when one size fits more, at least without causing issues for the rest of the
> >bike (for those that fit them, I gather the only real objections to compact geometry are
> >aesthetic).
>
> NOT true... IF you can fit one like you would fit a conventional bike fine .. buy one. IF you are
> Short enough that getting a traditional frame that fits is difficult then fine.
Well, I'm not that short.
> >I'm biased in that I'm small enough (5'6"; size out at something like a 52 cm frame) that I can
> >almost ride larger compact frames as if they were conventional frames. I imagine larger riders
> >have somewhat more trouble, but it's still a matter of just getting a longer seat post and a
> >longer stem, until you get forced into custom sizing, same as very short riders.
>
> The assumption that you can make a bike that does not fit magically fit by using a longer seat
> post and stem is ******** .. it is ******** on a conventional frame and is just as much ********
> on a compact frame.
Okay, I'll bite. What is the disadvantage of changing stems and seat posts to make a bike fit? Is
there a gamut of reach and seat height/position adjustments that standard road frames can achieve
but compact frames cannot? Do you see a major disadvantage to tall seat posts?
Quick show of hands: how many people here have noticed handling issues because of the different stem
lengths they need on compact and traditional frames?
> The number of consumers who benefit is small, the only way to say that these things truly fit is
> to radically re-define the words "bike fit".
You only touch a bike at three points. Moving seats, bars, and pedals relative to each other is all
that fit is, disregarding for the moment saddle holy wars and bar-tape debates.
> If you want to settle for less be my guest...
>
> I have to admit I find it kind of amusing and sad at the same time. I remember when people used to
> buy their bikes for the frame and then would fit the best component group they could afford onto a
> frame ... because the frame would last and the components would wear out anyway. Now people are
> cheaping out on the frame to get higher level components built on to it.
That's because the myths surrounding a frame's contribution to handling and feel are fading. As a
percentage of the bike's total cost, low and mid-range frames aren't that big. Go to Mark Hickey's
Habanero site, since he conveniently gives detailed price lists for bare frames and various gruppos.
Note that his _Ti_ frames account for about half the bike price, much less on the high end. What do
you think a typical mass-produced Al or Steel road frame costs, as a proportion of the price of the
finished product? Except at the high end, I think bike frames, cost-wise, are a jig to keep your
gruppo bits the right distance apart.
A lot of bike "ranges" consist of one frame and three gruppos, with a price range of typically 2:1
for most to least expensive bike.
> Seriously is there anyone out there who honestly believes that the performance/enjoyment
> difference between a bike that has say Ultegra components vs 105 is greater than the difference
> between correctly fitting and incorrectly fitting?
No. But I don't think you've proven your claim that compact bikes fit fewer people than
conventionally sized bikes.
--
Ryan Cousineau,
[email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club