Compair GRR Vs. P-38

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Roy Dale, Mar 9, 2004.

  1. Roy Dale

    Roy Dale Guest

    I have some question as to how these bents compair .
    1. will the GRR respond in sprints as fast as p-38?
    2. Will a Grr climb as fast?
    3. Will a Grr cruise on the Flats better ?
    4. Will a Grr handle as fast?
    5. What are the weight differences ? who is lighter
    and how much
     
    Tags:


  2. Cletus Lee

    Cletus Lee Guest

    A partial answer and (of course one man's opinion)

    In article
    <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] says...
    > I have some question as to how these bents compair .
    > 1. will the GRR respond in sprints as fast as p-38?

    Not likely. As a general rule, LWBs are sluggish off the
    starting blocks. I find the P-38 to be quite quick in
    acceleration. On my P-38 last Saturday, I overheard two DFs
    behind me at a light commenting about how quick recumbents
    were at acceleration. Since their only frame of reference
    was me on my P-38, I think they were impressed with the
    acceleration of my P-38 (Especially since this P-38 was
    being piloted by a FOF). I can easily out accelerate most
    DFs on my Saturday in-town ride that often amounts to
    sprints between lights.

    > 2. Will a Grr climb as fast?

    Depends on the engine and gearing. I climb faster on my P-38
    than on any other bike especially the RANS Stratus that I
    used to have. Most people in my Saturday ride group (both DF
    and Bent) climb faster than I do.

    > 3. Will a Grr cruise on the Flats better ?

    This is IMO what the GRR and other LWBs were made to do
    best.

    > 4. Will a Grr handle as fast?

    What does 'handle' mean to you? It is like comparing a
    tractor trailer and a Mini Cooper. Both will do freeway
    speeds. Don't try any fast cornering with the tractor
    trailer. Same holds true with the GRR.

    > 5. What are the weight differences ? who is lighter and
    > how much

    Both are advertised at 27 lbs. This is a valid value
    for the P-38.

    --

    Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager
    http://www.clee.org
    - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  3. I owned a P-38 XT then replaced it with a GRR, then a
    Ti Rush, which I still own. I recently also bought a
    Volae team.

    It did not own the P-38 and GRRs at the same time so my
    observations are skewed by memory and time.

    The P-38 climbed easier and faster. It probably was a bit
    faster on the flats but I am not sure how much, or whether
    very much.

    My current 25 pound Volae Team is faster on the flats than
    the GRR or P-38 were ... with the same effort ... and it
    climbs as fast or faster with less effort than the P-38 did.

    YMMV.

    --
    Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL "roy dale"
    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I have some question as to how these bents compair .
    > 1. will the GRR respond in sprints as fast as p-38?
    > 2. Will a Grr climb as fast?
    > 3. Will a Grr cruise on the Flats better ?
    > 4. Will a Grr handle as fast?
    > 5. What are the weight differences ? who is lighter and
    > how much
     
  4. Jeff Wills

    Jeff Wills Guest

    I've owned a P-38 and a Tour Easy. Beyond what Cletus said, the three
    most important things to remember about recumbent performance are:

    1. It's the motor.
    2. It's the motor.
    3. It's the motor.

    Jeff
     
  5. Jeff Wills

    Jeff Wills Guest

    "Robert Siegel" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:<[email protected]
    news.ops.worldnet.att.net>... <snip>
    > My current 25 pound Volae Team is faster on the flats
    > than the GRR or P-38 were ... with the same effort ...
    > and it climbs as fast or faster with less effort than the
    > P-38 did.
    >
    > YMMV.
    >
    > --
    > Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL

    Hmmm... another bike to add to the collection.

    Bob- where do you "climb" in Gainesville? ;-)

    Jeff
     
  6. In article
    <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] says...
    > I've owned a P-38 and a Tour Easy. Beyond what Cletus
    > said, the three most important things to remember about
    > recumbent performance are:
    >
    > 1. It's the motor.
    > 2. It's the motor.
    > 3. It's the motor.

    Doesn't "Depends on the engine" cover your three most
    important points?

    --
    Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager
    http://www.clee.org
    - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  7. I too have owned and ridden these bikes. P-38, TE GRR / Polished Alum and
    GRR Ti.
    In answer to your questions: (My opinion now...)

    > 1. will the GRR respond in sprints as fast as p-38?
    No
    > 2. Will a Grr climb as fast?
    No
    > 3. Will a Grr cruise on the Flats better ?
    Yes
    > 4. Will a Grr handle as fast?
    No
    > 5. What are the weight differences ? who is lighter and
    > how much
    P-38 is MUCH lighter by at least 3+ lbs? (Depending if you
    include a fairing on the Easy Racer bikes)

    "roy dale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I have some question as to how these bents compair .
    > 1. will the GRR respond in sprints as fast as p-38?
    > 2. Will a Grr climb as fast?
    > 3. Will a Grr cruise on the Flats better ?
    > 4. Will a Grr handle as fast?
    > 5. What are the weight differences ? who is lighter and
    > how much
     
  8. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    "EZ Biker :-\)" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]_s03>...

    > P-38 is MUCH lighter by at least 3+ lbs? (Depending if you
    > include a fairing on the Easy Racer bikes)

    What damn difference does this minuscule weight difference
    matter? I am now carrying around in my gut an extra 20
    pounds that I didn't used to have a few years ago. Every
    American that I have ever been able to observe is grossly
    overweight by at least 20 pounds. And the rest of the world
    is not far behind either. To talk about a few pounds
    difference in the weight of a recumbent is insane in view of
    the fact that we are all overweight by 20 pounds. But there
    are any number of idiots out there in recumbentland who will
    pay thousands of dollars extra in order to shave off a few
    pounds on their bike. How ridiculous! But if you have more
    money than brains then I suppose that is what one does. By
    all means, 3 pounds is 3 pounds!

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  9. Jack Davis

    Jack Davis Guest

    "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "EZ Biker :-\)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]_s03>...
    >
    > > P-38 is MUCH lighter by at least 3+ lbs? (Depending if
    > > you include a
    fairing
    > > on the Easy Racer bikes)
    >
    > What damn difference does this minuscule weight difference
    > matter? I am now carrying around in my gut an extra 20
    > pounds that I didn't used to have a few years ago. Every
    > American that I have ever been able to observe is grossly
    > overweight by at least 20 pounds. And the rest of the
    > world is not far behind either. To talk about a few pounds
    > difference in the weight of a recumbent is insane in view
    > of the fact that we are all overweight by 20 pounds. But
    > there are any number of idiots out there in recumbentland
    > who will pay thousands of dollars extra in order to shave
    > off a few pounds on their bike. How ridiculous! But if you
    > have more money than brains then I suppose that is what
    > one does. By all means, 3 pounds is 3 pounds!
    >
    > Ed Dolan - Minnesota

    Hi Ed,

    (Please note that I did put this under your post....I hope
    that is correct....I never have been very good at convention
    or protocols.)

    You know it's not about the weight....it's about bragging
    rights....as in, "My bikes lighter than your bike". For
    that, many people are willing to pay plenty.

    Or, if they can't control their own weight maybe they can at
    least have some control over the weight of their bike.

    Or, maybe they really could best Lance if they could just
    get rid of 6 more grams.

    Or, maybe they know it will get a rise out of you, and you
    know how we all enjoy that. :}

    Get those tires pumped up....Spring in almost here...

    jd
     
  10. Cletus D. Lee <[email protected]> wrote in news:MPG.1ab843028c258008989ad3
    @News.Individual.NET:

    >
    > Doesn't "Depends on the engine" cover your three most
    > important points?
    >

    What on earth difference would an engine cover ma...

    Uh, never mind

    :)

    (bitshift blah blah)
     
  11. Jack Davis

    Jack Davis Guest

    PS...

    "IS" ...is almost here....

    I also need new computer glasses...

    jd

    "Jack Davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > "EZ Biker :-\)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]_s03>...
    > >
    > > > P-38 is MUCH lighter by at least 3+ lbs? (Depending if
    > > > you include a
    > fairing
    > > > on the Easy Racer bikes)
    > >
    > > What damn difference does this minuscule weight
    > > difference matter? I am now carrying around in my gut an
    > > extra 20 pounds that I didn't used to have a few years
    > > ago. Every American that I have ever been able to
    > > observe is grossly overweight by at least 20 pounds. And
    > > the rest of the world is not far behind either. To talk
    > > about a few pounds difference in the weight of a
    > > recumbent is insane in view of the fact that we are all
    > > overweight by 20 pounds. But there are any number of
    > > idiots out there in recumbentland who will pay thousands
    > > of dollars extra in order to shave off a few pounds on
    > > their bike. How ridiculous! But if you have more money
    > > than brains then I suppose that is what one does. By all
    > > means, 3 pounds is 3 pounds!
    > >
    > > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
    >
    > Hi Ed,
    >
    > (Please note that I did put this under your post....I hope
    > that is correct....I never have been very good at
    > convention or protocols.)
    >
    > You know it's not about the weight....it's about bragging
    > rights....as in, "My bikes lighter than your bike". For
    > that, many people are willing to
    pay
    > plenty.
    >
    > Or, if they can't control their own weight maybe they can
    > at least have
    some
    > control over the weight of their bike.
    >
    > Or, maybe they really could best Lance if they could just
    > get rid of 6
    more
    > grams.
    >
    > Or, maybe they know it will get a rise out of you, and you
    > know how we
    all
    > enjoy that. :}
    >
    > Get those tires pumped up....Spring in almost here...
    >
    > jd
     
  12. Jack Davis

    Jack Davis Guest

    PS...

    "IS" ...is almost here....

    I also need new computer glasses...

    jd

    "Jack Davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > "EZ Biker :-\)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]_s03>...
    > >
    > > > P-38 is MUCH lighter by at least 3+ lbs? (Depending if
    > > > you include a
    > fairing
    > > > on the Easy Racer bikes)
    > >
    > > What damn difference does this minuscule weight
    > > difference matter? I am now carrying around in my gut an
    > > extra 20 pounds that I didn't used to have a few years
    > > ago. Every American that I have ever been able to
    > > observe is grossly overweight by at least 20 pounds. And
    > > the rest of the world is not far behind either. To talk
    > > about a few pounds difference in the weight of a
    > > recumbent is insane in view of the fact that we are all
    > > overweight by 20 pounds. But there are any number of
    > > idiots out there in recumbentland who will pay thousands
    > > of dollars extra in order to shave off a few pounds on
    > > their bike. How ridiculous! But if you have more money
    > > than brains then I suppose that is what one does. By all
    > > means, 3 pounds is 3 pounds!
    > >
    > > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
    >
    > Hi Ed,
    >
    > (Please note that I did put this under your post....I hope
    > that is correct....I never have been very good at
    > convention or protocols.)
    >
    > You know it's not about the weight....it's about bragging
    > rights....as in, "My bikes lighter than your bike". For
    > that, many people are willing to
    pay
    > plenty.
    >
    > Or, if they can't control their own weight maybe they can
    > at least have
    some
    > control over the weight of their bike.
    >
    > Or, maybe they really could best Lance if they could just
    > get rid of 6
    more
    > grams.
    >
    > Or, maybe they know it will get a rise out of you, and you
    > know how we
    all
    > enjoy that. :}
    >
    > Get those tires pumped up....Spring in almost here...
    >
    > jd
     
  13. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    "Jack Davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...

    > > "EZ Biker :-\)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]_s03>...
    > >
    > > > P-38 is MUCH lighter by at least 3+ lbs? (Depending if
    > > > you include a
    > fairing
    > > > on the Easy Racer bikes)
    > >
    > > What damn difference does this minuscule weight
    > > difference matter? I am now carrying around in my gut an
    > > extra 20 pounds that I didn't used to have a few years
    > > ago. Every American that I have ever been able to
    > > observe is grossly overweight by at least 20 pounds. And
    > > the rest of the world is not far behind either. To talk
    > > about a few pounds difference in the weight of a
    > > recumbent is insane in view of the fact that we are all
    > > overweight by 20 pounds. But there are any number of
    > > idiots out there in recumbentland who will pay thousands
    > > of dollars extra in order to shave off a few pounds on
    > > their bike. How ridiculous! But if you have more money
    > > than brains then I suppose that is what one does. By all
    > > means, 3 pounds is 3 pounds!
    > >
    > > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
    >
    > Hi Ed,
    >
    > (Please note that I did put this under your post....I hope
    > that is correct....I never have been very good at
    > convention or protocols.)

    Yes, you are posting correctly. It is actually easier to do
    things the right way than the wrong way. But you know how
    some folks are - just plain contrary and mean clear
    through. ;)

    > You know it's not about the weight....it's about bragging
    > rights....as in, "My bikes lighter than your bike". For
    > that, many people are willing to pay plenty.

    No, I am a practical realist and don't give a hoot about
    "bragging rights". The only folks who should be on super
    light weight bikes are those folks who do not have one
    ounce of fat on them. The last time I looked things were
    going in just the opposite direction. We Americans are
    truly becoming the fattest people on the face of the earth.
    We are all starting to look like those maharajahs in India
    used to look like when I was kid pouring over illustrated
    geography books.

    > Or, if they can't control their own weight maybe they can
    > at least have some control over the weight of their bike.

    I can see that no one has thought through any of this more
    than you Jack. So then, you must weigh around 145 lbs. I
    would guess. That is what I use to weight before I got old
    and slightly fat.

    > Or, maybe they really could best Lance if they could just
    > get rid of 6 more grams.

    Yes, and I do not believe in paying top prices for
    component bike parts either just in order to shave off a
    few grams. It is absurdity piled on top of absurdity. We
    humans are really quite ridiculous if only we could step
    back a bit and see ourselves from the outside (like maybe
    through the eyes of a Martian).

    > Or, maybe they know it will get a rise out of you, and you
    > know how we all enjoy that. :}

    Now you are getting to the quick of it. If I post and I do
    not get a rise out of someone, then I have failed. Of
    course, if the "riser" is sufficiently incensed about my
    post and says so in no uncertain words, then that gets a
    rise out of me - and so we are off to the races yet once
    again for more fun and games. Ah, life is good!

    > Get those tires pumped up....Spring in almost here...

    The Canadian honkers are back on the local lake and that is
    always a very good sign although I swear I think those geese
    can sometimes make mistakes too just like the rest of us.
    Today for instance the temperature has fallen back into the
    20's which causes my disposition to get even worse than it
    already is.

    Regards,

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  14. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    "Jack Davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > PS...
    >
    > "IS" ...is almost here....
    >
    > I also need new computer glasses...
    >
    > jd

    Jack, those little slip ups almost never matter. If and when
    they do matter, it is like an unintended joke. I actually
    read your message and did not even get the "in" for "is".
    That just goes to show how all important context is.

    It is the same with most typos too. I never nit pick anyone
    on those kind of things. We all make those kind of mistakes
    (except Mr. Sherman, which leads me to believe that there is
    something nonhuman about him - either that or he proof reads
    like a maniac). I only get excited when someone posts and it
    is unintelligible. We do have a few of those types here on
    ARBR but thankfully their posts are few and far between.

    The one thing you could have done so as not to overburden
    the newsgroup would be not to include the entire message yet
    once again, just the passage in question. But like I said,
    no correction was really necessary.

    Regards,

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  15. On 11 Mar 2004 09:10:18 -0800, [email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote:

    >Jack, those little slip ups almost never matter. If and
    >when they do matter, it is like an unintended joke.

    My favorite predated the current version of the Internet,
    ,when on a military messaging system someone mis-typed the
    then spelling for Tibet, Hsitsang as Shitsang. Did it
    about half the time, so I was guessing it had to do with a
    typing thing (like me and hte for the). Sure made for an
    amusing post...

    Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on
    two wheels...
     
  16. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Edward Dolan wrote:

    > ... I only get excited when someone posts and it is
    > unintelligible. We do have a few of those types here on
    > ARBR but thankfully their posts are few and far
    > between....

    You should hope that Gene Daniels does not buy a recumbent
    then, although there is something strangely fascinating
    about his writing style. <http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-
    3Fq%3Dphoton%2Bblinky%2Bscores%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-
    8%26c2coff%3D1%26safe%3Doff%26scoring%3Dd%26selm%3D41b0dda1-
    .0403110908.e92fdfe%2540posting.google.com%26rnum%3D1>.

    Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)
     
  17. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    Curtis L. Russell <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > On 11 Mar 2004 09:10:18 -0800, [email protected] (Edward
    > Dolan) wrote:
    >
    > >Jack, those little slip ups almost never matter. If and
    > >when they do matter, it is like an unintended joke.
    >
    > My favorite predated the current version of the Internet,
    > ,when on a military messaging system someone mis-typed the
    > then spelling for Tibet, Hsitsang as Shitsang. Did it
    > about half the time, so I was guessing it had to do with a
    > typing thing (like me and hte for the). Sure made for an
    > amusing post...

    Curtis, there are certain simple words which I can never get
    right the first time around - and I do mean never! The is
    one of them. It always comes out teh or hte (but NEVER the),
    and for comes out fro and always comes out alwasy - and so
    it goes. I spend five minutes typing out my thoughts and
    then I spend 10 minutes getting all the typos out. It is
    very frustrating, but I work at it as it is very
    discourteous not to get it right for the sake of your
    readers. But every now and then one slips by me. Thank God I
    do know how to spell at least.

    My biggest regret in life at this point is that I never
    took typing lessons in high school when I had the chance.
    I always figured I would have secretaries to do my typing
    for me. How little did I know then! I have wasted
    literally years of my life correcting all my typos. My
    brain simply will not learn how to type certain words with
    out reversing the same old letters over and over again. It
    would be a supreme challenge for any teacher to instruct
    me on how to type.

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  18. Jack Davis

    Jack Davis Guest

    "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Curtis L. Russell <[email protected]> wrote
    > in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > > On 11 Mar 2004 09:10:18 -0800, [email protected] (Edward
    > > Dolan) wrote:
    > >
    > > >Jack, those little slip ups almost never matter. If and
    > > >when they do matter, it is like an unintended joke.
    > >
    > > My favorite predated the current version of the
    > > Internet, ,when on a military messaging system someone
    > > mis-typed the then spelling for Tibet, Hsitsang as
    > > Shitsang. Did it about half the time, so I was guessing
    > > it had to do with a typing thing (like me and hte for
    > > the). Sure made for an amusing post...
    >
    > Curtis, there are certain simple words which I can never
    > get right the first time around - and I do mean never! The
    > is one of them. It always comes out teh or hte (but NEVER
    > the), and for comes out fro and always comes out alwasy -
    > and so it goes. I spend five minutes typing out my
    > thoughts and then I spend 10 minutes getting all the typos
    > out. It is very frustrating, but I work at it as it is
    > very discourteous not to get it right for the sake of your
    > readers. But every now and then one slips by me. Thank God
    > I do know how to spell at least.
    >
    > My biggest regret in life at this point is that I never
    > took typing lessons in high school when I had the chance.
    > I always figured I would have secretaries to do my typing
    > for me. How little did I know then! I have wasted
    > literally years of my life correcting all my typos. My
    > brain simply will not learn how to type certain words with
    > out reversing the same old letters over and over again. It
    > would be a supreme challenge for any teacher to instruct
    > me on how to type.
    >
    > Ed Dolan - Minnesota

    I got your there Ed......I took typing! It was in the '50s
    and I needed a credit and the class was full of girls and
    how hard could it be.... Turns-out it was very difficult but
    it was also the most valuable class I took in HS. Now typing
    is of course essential for using these computer things. It
    should be required in all schools for all kids......maybe it
    is ....it's been a long time since I was in a school. How's
    this for being OT?! jd
     
  19. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > Edward Dolan wrote:
    >
    > > ... I only get excited when someone posts and it is
    > > unintelligible. We do have a few of those types here on
    > > ARBR but thankfully their posts are few and far
    > > between....
    >
    > You should hope that Gene Daniels does not buy a recumbent
    > then, although there is something strangely fascinating
    > about his writing style.

    > <http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-
    > q%3Dphoton%2Bblinky%2Bscores%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-
    > 8%26c2coff%3D1%26safe%3Doff%26scoring%3Dd%26selm%3D41b0dd-
    > a1.0403110908.e92fdfe%2540posting.google.com%26rnum%3D1>.
    >
    > Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

    Tom, I will not read posts like those. The poster has
    obviously taken no pains at all with his post and it shows
    nothing but contempt for the reader. It is not a style, it
    is a total lack of style.

    I often debate with myself how much I should polish my
    posts. You fast reach a point of diminishing returns. If I
    were writing for publication I would of course take infinite
    pains to get the flow just right.

    I do note that your posts are quite well written. Have you
    worked at this I wonder or does it just come naturally? I
    wrote better 40 years ago then I do now because I have grown
    rusty from lack of use. With me it was all reading and no
    writing. Eventually, if you want to write well, you actually
    have to do it.

    Regards,

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  20. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Edward Dolan wrote:

    > Tom, I will not read posts like those. The poster has
    > obviously taken no pains at all with his post and it shows
    > nothing but contempt for the reader. It is not a style, it
    > is a total lack of style.

    Ed,

    There are many Internet postings that are obviously by
    people who have no skill at writing and lack understanding
    of the basic rules of grammar and punctuation, but the post
    by G. Daniels I referenced is different. It is like
    conversing with a schizophrenic person whose sense of
    reality differs from other peoples.

    > I often debate with myself how much I should polish my
    > posts. You fast reach a point of diminishing returns. If I
    > were writing for publication I would of course take
    > infinite pains to get the flow just right.
    >
    > I do note that your posts are quite well written. Have you
    > worked at this I wonder or does it just come naturally?...

    In the consulting engineering business, what the clients are
    paying for is a "deliverable" - a written document that
    contains not only data but also recommendations. It is vital
    for these documents to be intelligible to the client (or
    they will find another consulting firm). Of similar
    importance is that the writing be definitive enough in its
    meaning so that a lawyer would have a hard time convincing a
    judge or jury that the interpretation is something other
    than what engineer was intending to say.

    Sometimes I feel that it is unfair for me to argue in a
    written forum with those who do not write professionally for
    a living. ;)

    Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)
     
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