Comparing Volae and Bacchetta

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Eflayer2, Feb 21, 2004.

  1. Eflayer2

    Eflayer2 Guest

    I am new to bents and have just set up my Bacchetta Corsa and scared the crap out of myself a few
    times learning how to ride. This is my first bent after 100000's of miles on uprights. I own a
    couple of gorgeous uprights and appreciate fine lugged and filleted framework. While being excited
    about my new Bacchetta, I can't help being curious about the quality of the competition. My Corsa
    is well done, but definitely not up to the quality of my road bikes. I'm curious, since I have
    owned a Waterford upright and really appreciated the quality of the frame, if anyone can compare
    the quality of Bacchetta, Rans, Volae in this new High Racer competition that seems to be taking
    place? One might guess Volae's deal with Waterford might put them in the "drivers seat" for frame
    build quality?
     
    Tags:


  2. Bryan Ball

    Bryan Ball Guest

    I don't think that the Waterford-made Volae's are available yet.

    "eflayer2" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I am new to bents and have just set up my Bacchetta Corsa and scared the crap out of myself a few
    > times learning how to ride. This is my first bent after 100000's of miles on uprights. I own a
    > couple of gorgeous uprights and appreciate fine lugged and filleted framework. While being excited
    > about my new Bacchetta, I can't help being curious about the quality of the competition. My Corsa
    > is well done, but definitely not up to the quality of my road bikes. I'm curious, since I have
    > owned a Waterford upright and really appreciated the quality of the frame, if anyone can compare
    > the quality of Bacchetta, Rans, Volae in this new High Racer competition that seems to be taking
    > place? One might guess Volae's deal with Waterford might put them in the "drivers seat" for frame
    > build quality?

    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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  3. Bill B

    Bill B Guest

    I may be wrong but I don't see much in the way of lugged joints on the Volae frame[maybe the fork
    but thats all I can think of]. Wonder if the price of the volae will go up with Waterford making the
    frames or will they be the same price as the Vision made frames.
     
  4. John Riley

    John Riley Guest

  5. Bentbiker

    Bentbiker Guest

    if you check the updated website, the prices have actually gone done a little bit, plus new models
    www.volaerecumbents.com

    Bill B wrote:
    > I may be wrong but I don't see much in the way of lugged joints on the Volae frame[maybe the fork
    > but thats all I can think of]. Wonder if the price of the volae will go up with Waterford making
    > the frames or will they be the same price as the Vision made frames.
     
  6. Tom Blum

    Tom Blum Guest

    That is a good question. . I predict that the emerging "Bacchetta Clan" will reply with claims of
    being the one true religion, with a fervor once reserved to the rans clan (Caps ommitted
    deliberately, Shermie).

    In fact, the genre has roots going back to Europe. Bacchetta DID do a masterfull job of
    introducing the bike to the American recumbent Roadie/DF crossover rider.

    I think from a performance point of view, the differences are moot. Possible, The new Force 5
    or the Bacchetta ovalized main tube may be a bit stiffer than the round tube of the Volae.

    Since there are no lugs that I am aware of, developed for this style, that beautiful
    craftsmanship seems to be reserved for the DF type bikes. It would be beautiful to see a
    Monotube with Lugs.

    Waiting for the storm,

    Tom

    "eflayer2" <[email protected]> wrote in message > gorgeous uprights and appreciate fine lugged
    and filleted framework.
    > While being excited about my new Bacchetta, I can't help being curious about the quality of the
    > competition. My Corsa is well done, but definitely not up to the quality of my road bikes. I'm
    > curious, since I have owned a Waterford upright and really appreciated the quality of the frame,
    > if anyone can compare the quality of Bacchetta, Rans, Volae in this new High Racer competition
    > that seems to be taking place? One might guess Volae's deal with Waterford might put them in the
    > "drivers seat" for frame build quality?
     
  7. "Tom Blum" skrev...
    > That is a good question. . I predict that the emerging "Bacchetta Clan" will reply with claims of
    > being the one true religion, with a fervor once reserved to the rans clan (Caps ommitted
    > deliberately, Shermie).

    Thats the Church of RANS to you, mister. ;o) And I think they all fell by the wayside. Been quite a
    while since we had anyone stand up for RANS in a big way.

    > In fact, the genre has roots going back to Europe. Bacchetta DID do a masterfull job of
    > introducing the bike to the American recumbent Roadie/DF crossover rider.

    Yep, total ripoff. We might let it pass if you send a L or XL-Aero to the following address, Rich:
    Mikael Seierup.... yada, yada. ;o)

    > I think from a performance point of view, the differences are moot. Possible, The new Force 5
    > or the Bacchetta ovalized main tube may be a bit stiffer than the round tube of the Volae.

    I like the Bacchettas. Lovely clean design and colors. Just personal taste tho.

    > Waiting for the storm,

    Well I did have a curry yesterday, but I wouldn't go as far as to call it a "storm". Breezy maybe?

    Cheers Mikael
     
  8. Eflayer2

    Eflayer2 Guest

    I would not expect to see lugs on a bent. Lugs are really expensive to make and probably take way
    more time to braze and finish. But it would be nice to see some real paint instead of powder coat.
    It would also be great if the manufacturer paid more attention to the finish details and that the
    welds were as smooth as possible.

    I'd like to see the work Waterford is doing for Volae. I was in a shop two weeks ago that had many
    of the new tigged Waterford frames and they were extremely well done. Waterford also knows its
    tubes and the its tubing suppliers so I wonder if we will see some higher end tubes being used in
    the future.

    [email protected] (Bill B) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > I may be wrong but I don't see much in the way of lugged joints on the Volae frame[maybe the fork
    > but thats all I can think of]. Wonder if the price of the volae will go up with Waterford making
    > the frames or will they be the same price as the Vision made frames.
     
  9. Just zis Guy

    Just zis Guy Guest

    On 22 Feb 2004 05:19:14 -0800, [email protected] (eflayer2) wrote
    in message <[email protected]>:

    >it would be nice to see some real paint instead of powder coat.

    Good powder coat is very good, tho. Bad powder coat is of course a Work of Stan.

    Guy
    ===
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University
     
  10. Jack Davis

    Jack Davis Guest

    RANS RIDERS, (yes, RIDERS!) don't have time to rant and rave. We're too busy grinning and smiling.

    But ya'll have fun any way you can...

    jd

    "Mikael Seierup" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    berlin.de...
    >
    > "Tom Blum" skrev...
    > > That is a good question. . I predict that the emerging "Bacchetta Clan" will reply with claims
    of
    > > being the one true religion, with a fervor once reserved to the rans
    clan
    > > (Caps ommitted deliberately, Shermie).
    >
    > Thats the Church of RANS to you, mister. ;o) And I think they all fell by the wayside. Been quite
    > a while since we had anyone stand up for RANS in a big way.
    >
    > > In fact, the genre has roots going back to Europe. Bacchetta DID do
    a
    > > masterfull job of introducing the bike to the American recumbent
    Roadie/DF
    > > crossover rider.
    >
    > Yep, total ripoff. We might let it pass if you send a L or XL-Aero to the following address, Rich:
    > Mikael Seierup.... yada, yada. ;o)
    >
    > > I think from a performance point of view, the differences are moot. Possible, The new Force
    > > 5 or the Bacchetta ovalized main tube may be a
    bit
    > > stiffer than the round tube of the Volae.
    >
    > I like the Bacchettas. Lovely clean design and colors. Just personal taste
    tho.
    >
    > > Waiting for the storm,
    >
    > Well I did have a curry yesterday, but I wouldn't go as far as to call it
    a "storm".
    > Breezy maybe?
    >
    > Cheers Mikael
     
  11. Eflayer2

    Eflayer2 Guest

    I own a Ti Sports diamond frame road bike. The quality of the welding is superb. And I've seen that
    same quality that TST does on the Aero. If there can't/won't be the beauty of a lugged bent, maybe
    someone could take the time to fillet braze one or even to burnish the welds ala how Guru does their
    steel diamond frames. Just a little more class.

    [email protected] (eflayer2) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > I am new to bents and have just set up my Bacchetta Corsa and scared the crap out of myself a few
    > times learning how to ride. This is my first bent after 100000's of miles on uprights. I own a
    > couple of gorgeous uprights and appreciate fine lugged and filleted framework. While being excited
    > about my new Bacchetta, I can't help being curious about the quality of the competition. My Corsa
    > is well done, but definitely not up to the quality of my road bikes. I'm curious, since I have
    > owned a Waterford upright and really appreciated the quality of the frame, if anyone can compare
    > the quality of Bacchetta, Rans, Volae in this new High Racer competition that seems to be taking
    > place? One might guess Volae's deal with Waterford might put them in the "drivers seat" for frame
    > build quality?
     
  12. John Riley

    John Riley Guest

    "Mikael Seierup" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Tom Blum" skrev...
    >
    > > In fact, the genre has roots going back to Europe. Bacchetta DID do a masterfull job of
    > > introducing the bike to the American recumbent Roadie/DF crossover rider.
    >
    > Yep, total ripoff. We might let it pass if you send a L or XL-Aero to the following address, Rich:
    > Mikael Seierup.... yada, yada. ;o)

    Oh man, all I did was say they had high racers in Europe, not anything about parentage or even
    design, and that provoked a... um... _strong_ response on BROL. You better be careful saying Rich is
    not the father of this baby. ;-)

    http://pub152.ezboard.com/fbentrideronlinefrm1.showMessageRange?topicID=3324.topic&start=1&stop=20

    John Riley
     
  13. Jeff Wills

    Jeff Wills Guest

    [email protected] (eflayer2) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > I would not expect to see lugs on a bent. Lugs are really expensive to make and probably take way
    > more time to braze and finish. But it would be nice to see some real paint instead of powder coat.
    > It would also be great if the manufacturer paid more attention to the finish details and that the
    > welds were as smooth as possible.
    >

    Lightning P-38's have custom lugs at the top tube/center stay/seat mount joint. It makes it much
    easier to create this very complicated (four tubes, one of which is removable) joint. I believe
    Lightning uses a custom fork crown, also. The balance of the joints are fillet-brazed.

    Fancy lugs are also available on Trice trikes. Take a look at
    http://www.ice.hpv.co.uk/trike_details_options.htm

    A lug is really easy to braze (I did it as a rank novice). The cost comes from having to tool up for
    a precision investment casting. If you're building thousands of frames, the cost for tooling is
    amortized across all of those frames. For most recumbents, small production runs and frequent design
    changes make lugs cost-prohibitive.

    The lugs are much prettier if they're covered in nice paint- I put black lacquer on my Lightning:
    http://www.pacifier.com/~jwills/Gallery/photos/photo_3.html

    Jeff
     
  14. Pj

    Pj Guest

    [email protected] (eflayer2) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > I am new to bents and have just set up my Bacchetta Corsa and scared the crap out of myself a few
    > times learning how to ride. This is my first bent after 100000's of miles on uprights. I own a
    > couple of gorgeous uprights and appreciate fine lugged and filleted framework. While being excited
    > about my new Bacchetta, I can't help being curious about the quality of the competition. My Corsa
    > is well done, but definitely not up to the quality of my road bikes. I'm curious, since I have
    > owned a Waterford upright and really appreciated the quality of the frame, if anyone can compare
    > the quality of Bacchetta, Rans, Volae in this new High Racer competition that seems to be taking
    > place? One might guess Volae's deal with Waterford might put them in the "drivers seat" for frame
    > build quality?

    There is a pretty significant difference in the economics of building recumbents versus diamond
    frame bikes, even custom diamond frame bikes. Excluding the obvious common parts ie wheels, brakes,
    derailers, most of a recumbent is proprietary in design and based upon relatively small produciton
    numbers. This being the case, I dont think that you will find a Bacchetta able to compete with a
    high end diamond frame in some of the small touches that a builder like Waterford can provide. In
    short it is more expensive to produce a recumbent at similar quality levels than a diamond
    frame....thus efficiencies need to be found to bring a recumbent into a "reasonable" price point.

    Pat Mc
     
  15. "eflayer2" skrev..
    > I own a Ti Sports diamond frame road bike. The quality of the welding is superb. And I've seen
    > that same quality that TST does on the Aero. If there can't/won't be the beauty of a lugged bent,
    > maybe someone could take the time to fillet braze one or even to burnish the welds ala how Guru
    > does their steel diamond frames. Just a little more class.

    ICE makes nice trikes with lugwork according to the RCN July 2003 edition with the review of the
    Trice Explorer. http://www.ice.hpv.co.uk/

    M.
     
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