Composite trike etc.

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Mikael Seierup, Apr 7, 2003.

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  2. seems counterproductive to build a composite tadpole that uses sooo much material for the
    cruciform that Iron would probably weigh less. Thought the whole idea was to make the composite
    trike design as low in weight as possible. I still like it though...too bad there is no English
    translation on the page.
    ------------------------------
    "Mikael Seierup" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > http://www.folkbildning.net/~jan-inge.ljungberg/sthlm6april03.htm
    >
    > A nice composite trike. A weird trike. A somewhat unfinished trikefairing etc.
    >
    > M.
     
  3. Joshua Goldberg <[email protected]> wrote:
    : I still like it though...too bad there is no English translation on the page.

    They use so many swearwords to describe the local weather that it's intranslatable. Unlike Finland -
    which has solid ice and beautiful snowfields bathing in the pleasantly cool winter sun - Sweden is
    constantly plagued by sleetstorms and chilly air from the mountains mixed with humid sea winds. Then
    again, we usually get Swedish weather when the Swedes have first had a good chance to enjoy it for a
    day or two.,,

    --
    Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/ varis at no spam please iki fi
     
  4. "Joshua Goldberg" skrev...
    > seems counterproductive to build a composite tadpole that uses sooo much material for the
    > cruciform that Iron would probably weigh less. Thought the whole idea was to make the composite
    > trike design as low in weight as possible.

    I assume the frame is hollow or at worst has a foamcore. Anyway if you use fiberglass the frames
    tend to get a bit bulkier. Not much heavier though. I had a chance to lift one of Kamils old ones.

    > I still like it though...too bad there is no English translation on the page.

    There was very little technical info in them anyway. "Composite and light" sums it up for the blue
    trike. "I dunno how the drivetrain and gear works" is the gist of the text for that very oddlooking
    delta. "Hard to wiggle out of" for the fairing.

    M.
     
  5. I thought I could read and write Swedish until I saw that website. It's loaded with colloquial and
    regional expressions and not easily translatable. I don't think they have much concern about
    international comprehension, on that particular page. As others said, there is almost nothing that
    gives technical specs or lists materials. However, I like the looks and concept of the blue
    tricycle. My own composite tricycle uses multiple tubes that are spaced out wide to give strength.
    This blue machine looks great and I speculate that the original form may have been carved from wood
    and molds made from that. This type of hollow, composite body could be relatively light weight and
    have reduced aerodynamic drag, if used unfaired. However, the narrow lateral span of its single main
    member would have a lot of twisting stress on it, especially where the front wheel arms attach.
    There could be fatigue fractures in such a design, just as with metal, after longterm use. Perhaps
    there are reinforcing structures that are hidden inside. Maybe, they will put up a website in the
    future that describes and shows these interesting machines in more detail.

    I use an S-Glass/Epoxy tubing in mine that has rounds of Sitka Spruce glued inside. The 28mm
    tubes weigh 400 gms per meter (composite and wood combined). The 44mm tubes weigh 950 gms per
    meter (approx.). The total weight for all the longitudinal and lateral tubes is 8 kg, plus 1.4
    kg for the fiberglass and the metal bolts that fasten and reinforce the joints or
    9.4 kg total for the basic frame (20.68 lbs.). The two front lateral frame tubes serve as the axle
    supports for the front wheels. The four longitudinal composite/wood tubes, spaced out laterally in
    the frame to a width of .5 meters (19.65 inches), are very sturdy and resistant to fatigue
    fractures, as the wood dampens out the shocks. I've taken lengths of these S-Glass/Epoxy/spruce
    tubes and tested their durability by swinging them hard like baseball bats against a concrete
    wall. No matter how hard and often I smash them, I can't get them to break or even show signs of
    structural cracks. The point of impact on them will eventually crumble a bit, but no other damage
    occurs, even a few cm away. My hands and body give out, before they do. The tubes are from a
    manufacturing company that makes them for use as vaulting poles or for crossbars for that track &
    field event. I've used them to make Kayak and Canoe paddles for years and I've never broken one,
    even though these had no wood cores. I can't give out full details or pictures about this
    tricycle, as it's still an unfinished project that must be kept under wraps until completion and
    testing takes place. It will be driven by four levers for hands and feet that turn chainrings. I
    have a fully enclosed and streamlined fiberglass airframe body for it and also an alternate, very
    large, front-only fairing. Eventually I will build an advanced version with this drive system and
    a sturdier monococque body from the same aerodynamic design, but with only a light, reinforcing
    set of longitudinal tubes inside.

    Steve McDonald
     
  6. a skunk project eh what U described sounds very cool and I'd luv to see it when UR finished. Any
    timeline here...like weeks/months b4 U can show any snaps?
    ----------------------------------------
    "Steve McDonald" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > I thought I could read and write Swedish until I saw that website. It's loaded with
    > colloquial and regional expressions and not easily translatable. I don't think they have much
    > concern about international comprehension, on that particular page. As others said, there is
    > almost nothing that gives technical specs or lists materials. However, I like the looks and
    > concept of the blue tricycle. My own composite tricycle uses multiple tubes that are spaced
    > out wide to give strength. This blue machine looks great and I speculate that the original
    > form may have been carved from wood and molds made from that. This type of hollow, composite
    > body could be relatively light weight and have reduced aerodynamic drag, if used unfaired.
    > However, the narrow lateral span of its single main member would have a lot of twisting
    > stress on it, especially where the front wheel arms attach. There could be fatigue fractures
    > in such a design, just as with metal, after longterm use. Perhaps there are reinforcing
    > structures that are hidden inside. Maybe, they will put up a website in the future that
    > describes and shows these interesting machines in more detail.
    >
    > I use an S-Glass/Epoxy tubing in mine that has rounds of Sitka Spruce glued inside. The 28mm
    > tubes weigh 400 gms per meter (composite and wood combined). The 44mm tubes weigh 950 gms per
    > meter (approx.). The total weight for all the longitudinal and lateral tubes is 8 kg, plus
    > 1.4 kg for the fiberglass and the metal bolts that fasten and reinforce the joints or
    > 9.4 kg total for the basic frame (20.68 lbs.). The two front lateral frame tubes serve as the axle
    > supports for the front wheels. The four longitudinal composite/wood tubes, spaced out laterally
    > in the frame to a width of .5 meters (19.65 inches), are very sturdy and resistant to fatigue
    > fractures, as the wood dampens out the shocks. I've taken lengths of these S-Glass/Epoxy/spruce
    > tubes and tested their durability by swinging them hard like baseball bats against a concrete
    > wall. No matter how hard and often I smash them, I can't get them to break or even show signs of
    > structural cracks. The point of impact on them will eventually crumble a bit, but no other
    > damage occurs, even a few cm away. My hands and body give out, before they do. The tubes are
    > from a manufacturing company that makes them for use as vaulting poles or for crossbars for that
    > track & field event. I've used them to make Kayak and Canoe paddles for years and I've never
    > broken one, even though these had no wood cores. I can't give out full details or pictures about
    > this tricycle, as it's still an unfinished project that must be kept under wraps until
    > completion and testing takes place. It will be driven by four levers for hands and feet that
    > turn chainrings. I have a fully enclosed and streamlined fiberglass airframe body for it and
    > also an alternate, very large, front-only fairing. Eventually I will build an advanced version
    > with this drive system and a sturdier monococque body from the same aerodynamic design, but with
    > only a light, reinforcing set of longitudinal tubes inside.
    >
    > Steve McDonald
     
  7. wow...good to hear of one so committed to an idea or in my case, my wife likes to say that my ideas
    will end in my being committed.
    -----------------------------------------
    "Steve McDonald" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > I like the reference about a "skunk project". Years ago, I met Kelly Johnson, the inspired
    > leader of Lockheed's Skunk Works, that has produced many of the country's wonder planes over
    > the last 65 years. I was impressed by him and think I absorbed some of his imagination. I
    > also worked with NASA for a few years and was able to associate with some other notable
    > designers and engineers-----this all gave me a boost in my own personal projects that I was
    > very fortunate to receive.
    >
    > My own recumbent tricycle project is actually three major projects in one: The aerodynamic
    > body, the frame and rolling hardware and the drive system. I have finished my large front
    > fairing which will be used when the full airframe body is detached and also a big,
    > streamlined fiberglass cargo box for the rear. I'll use a fiberglass recumbent bucket seat I
    > made many years ago. But, it will be some time before I have anything else I'll want to
    > show-----at least a year if I can sustain these 12-hour work days. I am going to build a
    > version of the hand and foot lever drive in the form of a stationary exercise machine with an
    > airvane for resistance. This will be the first major finished part of the project and oddly,
    > could be the most successful, even though it's only a side-product. I've been training hard
    > on a stationary hand-cranking machine for four years, as well as having ridden a leg-only
    > bike most of my life, so I'll be ready to make this thing roll when it's finished-----if it
    > doesn't finish me first.
    >
    > Steve McDonald
     
  8. Steve McDonald <[email protected]> wrote:

    : I thought I could read and write Swedish until I saw that website. It's loaded with
    : colloquial and regional expressions and not easily

    Hmm if you have trouble with that website I wonder what you'd say about reading these guys in
    e-mail action ;>

    : translatable. I don't think they have much concern about international comprehension, on that
    : particular page. As others said, there is

    Alas, the Dutch as well seem to think that only they ride Optimas and Challenges... :-. Well there's
    always www.worldlingo.com etc.

    : I use an S-Glass/Epoxy tubing in mine that has rounds of Sitka Spruce glued inside. The 28mm
    : tubes weigh 400 gms per meter (composite and wood combined). The 44mm tubes weigh 950 gms per
    : meter (approx.).

    Hmm are there narrower tubes too? I have started thinking about building a full fairing over a
    trike, I could put some tubes around it on the sides, to give support for the fairing and cargo
    carriers and electronics gear, and maybe to add some safety in collisions with other vehicles.

    I just started with these ideas but I fear homebuilding is a slippery slope, and considering one
    already has a recumbent, one is part of the risk group.

    I'd like something easy to build at first... but preferably very aerodynamic. Tadpoles are just made
    for a drop-shape body right? =)

    --
    Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/ varis at no spam please iki fi
     
  9. Steve McDonald <[email protected]> wrote:

    : in the catalog. These poles for vaulting crossbars are not very flexible and wouldn't work well
    : for making a highly-curved support frame for a fairing. I'd suggest some thin-walled type of PVC
    : water pipe for that or maybe someone else has a better suggestion?

    I guess they could be heavier if they double up for supporting some kind of luggage carriers (hang
    custom made bags from them or something). I wonder if bamboo would be suitable material and where I
    could get it. How about a Japanese origami fairing made out of bamboo and paper? ;)

    Any ideas about how to mount some supporting rods on the frame? Preferably something which stays
    solid, but is easy to remove (or makes the rods easy to remove) and does no damage to the frame...
    thinking about a trike frame as the first platform.

    Maybe a modular fairing with racing, heavy touring and commuting options could be a nice project ;)

    --
    Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/ varis at no spam please iki fi
     
  10. <[email protected]> skrev

    > I guess they could be heavier if they double up for supporting some kind of luggage carriers (hang
    > custom made bags from them or something). I wonder if bamboo would be suitable material and where
    > I could get it. How about a Japanese origami fairing made out of bamboo and paper? ;)

    Plantschools/garden centers usually sells bamboo for supporting plants. Might be able to soak it and
    bend into shape.

    > Any ideas about how to mount some supporting rods on the frame? Preferably something which stays
    > solid, but is easy to remove (or makes the rods easy to remove) and does no damage to the frame...
    > thinking about a trike frame as the first platform.

    Hoseclamp with a bit of old innertube between it and frame. U-shaped mounting bracket like the
    Streamer uses. Fix an alutube or something similar to U-bracket with a seatpost quickrelease or
    maybe wingnuts.

    M.
     
  11. Ian Smith

    Ian Smith Guest

    On Tue, 8 Apr 2003, Steve McDonald <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > in the catalog. These poles for vaulting crossbars are not very flexible and wouldn't work well
    > for making a highly-curved support frame for a fairing. I'd suggest some thin-walled type of PVC
    > water pipe for that or maybe someone else has a better suggestion?

    Kite shops - lots of thin, lightweight tubing in an assortment of exciting materials and whole range
    of weight / flexibility / cost.

    Tent shops - dome tents use flexible poles. Some fabric fairings and some one-man tents look not
    dis-similar.

    regrads, Ian SMith
    --
    |\ /| no .sig
    |o o|
    |/ \|
     
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