Computrainer vs TACX I-magic

[Phil TurboVids]

Its a bit of a plug I guess but if you got a i-magic or are thinking about getting one then vist www.i-rides.com for some real life video you can either try or buy.

Its a small scale project just now but over the year the database of real rides will grow massively as well as the quality of the footage.

You will need to download the video upgrade patch first which you will find a link to on the home page. There is also a small forum.

Phil

 

[bryan_boldt]

Oh so silly. People can always find ways to justify buying whatever they want.

You can get the Tacx i-magic (including all the Tacx software) for around $570.

The steering unit/fork stand ($150) is an optional component that accomplishes a couple things. First, it provides a means to create new routes in the i-magic VR course software, or to freeride in NetAthlon. Secondly, it provides a pivoting front mount for your bike, which absorbs some of the twisting load you put on your bike frame. It also provides a more realistic riding feel, rather than locking in the front end so it doesn't move. Complaints about breaking? Few and far between. I assembled mine properly and never had a problem. BTW, every trainer has it's little problems... one of which is Computrainer's over-heating.

There aren't a lot of VR courses (terrains) from Tacx for this trainer. Without buying 3rd party courses, you're stuck riding either 2 road terrains, 1 track or 1 dirt/mtn bike terrain. That's it for the VR stuff.

Tacx provides additional software called Catalyst which is used to create and ride manually programmed profiles (slopes), or power and heart rate based workouts. Many premade profiles exist and are available for free from various Tacx user groups.

As an added treat, Tacx has recently incorporated the ability to use real life video rides along with the profiles in Catalyst. This allows you to view real road videos (ie: Alps, Flanders, Rhineland, etc) and have that synchronized with the route profile... so you feel all the changes in the video road you're riding (see: http://www.i-rides.com/). This is a really awesome feature and beats any VR software by a long shot! Yes it is an additional cost to buy the videos, but since the trainer cost is about half that of Computrainer, you should be able to afford lots and lots of videos.
Go ride Col du Telegraphe or the Galibier and tell me you're not having fun (warning: these are very tough climbs). At the same time, you get all your statistics for heart rate, power/wattage, speed, cadence, etc.

Tacx doesn't encrypt your workout data like Computrainer does. On top of the very high cost of the CT, they force you to buy 3rd party software just to access YOUR data. There is free software available to export the Tacx data to Polar .hrm file format, so you can import this into whatever software you have (ie: PPP, or whatever).

I believe the Tacx trainer gives you a lot of bang for the buck, and the additional software and features make it a standout. I doubt that I could spend the money for a CT and never feel like I got ripped off. But then... if you have a Bowflex, the CT would fit in nicely.

 

[Clever H]

Oh so silly. People can always find ways to justify buying whatever they want.

You can get the Tacx i-magic (including all the Tacx software) for around $570.

Where can I buy the Tacx for $570? I live in London, Ontario, Canada, and the best price from a shop here is $1100.

_-H

 

[jon_stewart]

Oh so silly. People can always find ways to justify buying whatever they want.

You can get the Tacx i-magic (including all the Tacx software) for around $570.

Snip....

I second the motion!

Funny thing is that I find (as a newbie trying to get base miles done) I use catalyst nearly all the time and the VR Cycling hardly at all. I'm looking forward to being fit enough to try some of the i-rides! ...and also having enough discipline to keep my Pulse rate within acceptable levels while I'm doing it. Alpe d'Huez definitely out for at least 6 months!

 

[fstrnu]

Just my two cents, but only Computrainer users can use www.performancecentral.net !

 

[Clever H]

Just my two cents, but only Computrainer users can use www.performancecentral.net !

Thanks,

I ordered the Tacx Fortius, should be in Canada within the month.

H

 

[franco1]

Skip the computrainer and the Tacx. Take a look at the Velodyne:

http://www.velodynesports.com/

This trainer has been around for a decade, and was once marketed by Schwinn. Frontline, the company that developed it, has become Velodyne Sports and has since updated the trainer.

I've owned a Velodyne for a while, and I've also owned (briefly, until I sent it back) a Computrainer. There is no comparison insofar as the actual trainer hardware goes. The Velodyne is a bigger, heavier unit, with a 20lb flywheel, that offers resistance up to 1400 watts. It has numerous exercise modes -- constant workload, constant grade, heartrate zone (with integrated sensor that is compatible with Polar Heartrates Montors) -- as well as good race simulations on preprogrammed courses. It also doubles as a scientifically accurate ergometer, and is still used in many exercise physiology labs. With a separate ROM chip, vailable form Velodyne, it does a full array of physical tests such as estimated VO Max, etc. , and it has an interval mode.

By contrast, the Computrainer is just a run-of-the mill foldable trainer that happens to connect to your computer.

Granted, you will not have the pretty 3-D computer graphics offered by Computrainer, but you will have a far better trainer. But, if you want the pretty graphics, you can hook the Velodyne up to your computer and use Netcentric Software.

If you have set aside the cash to purchase a Computrainer, definitely give consideration to the Velodyne as well!

Have any of you used the TACX Ergotrainer - Flow

The features look ok.

 

[Randybaker99]

The best trainer by far, especially considering the price, is

www.trainersoftware.com

This has only been out for under a month but tops anything done by any of the other trainers. It's not well used yet but give it another few months it will start to become the industry standard.

If you have a Playstation 2 game console, then the Cateye Gamebike is an even better option. I have one and it is a godsend that allows me to stay on the trainer for 90 minutes or 2 hours without being bored to tears. No power measurements, though, but it if you already have a PS2, then it is a tiny fraction of the price of a computrainer. I bought mine online from a tiny little online store in upstate New York, for $119.00 US.

 

[690MBCOMMANDO]

Oh so silly. People can always find ways to justify buying whatever they want.

You can get the Tacx i-magic (including all the Tacx software) for around $570.

The steering unit/fork stand ($150) is an optional component that accomplishes a couple things. First, it provides a means to create new routes in the i-magic VR course software, or to freeride in NetAthlon. Secondly, it provides a pivoting front mount for your bike, which absorbs some of the twisting load you put on your bike frame. It also provides a more realistic riding feel, rather than locking in the front end so it doesn't move. Complaints about breaking? Few and far between. I assembled mine properly and never had a problem. BTW, every trainer has it's little problems... one of which is Computrainer's over-heating.

There aren't a lot of VR courses (terrains) from Tacx for this trainer. Without buying 3rd party courses, you're stuck riding either 2 road terrains, 1 track or 1 dirt/mtn bike terrain. That's it for the VR stuff.

Tacx provides additional software called Catalyst which is used to create and ride manually programmed profiles (slopes), or power and heart rate based workouts. Many premade profiles exist and are available for free from various Tacx user groups.

As an added treat, Tacx has recently incorporated the ability to use real life video rides along with the profiles in Catalyst. This allows you to view real road videos (ie: Alps, Flanders, Rhineland, etc) and have that synchronized with the route profile... so you feel all the changes in the video road you're riding (see: http://www.i-rides.com/). This is a really awesome feature and beats any VR software by a long shot! Yes it is an additional cost to buy the videos, but since the trainer cost is about half that of Computrainer, you should be able to afford lots and lots of videos.
Go ride Col du Telegraphe or the Galibier and tell me you're not having fun (warning: these are very tough climbs). At the same time, you get all your statistics for heart rate, power/wattage, speed, cadence, etc.

Tacx doesn't encrypt your workout data like Computrainer does. On top of the very high cost of the CT, they force you to buy 3rd party software just to access YOUR data. There is free software available to export the Tacx data to Polar .hrm file format, so you can import this into whatever software you have (ie: PPP, or whatever).

I believe the Tacx trainer gives you a lot of bang for the buck, and the additional software and features make it a standout. I doubt that I could spend the money for a CT and never feel like I got ripped off. But then... if you have a Bowflex, the CT would fit in nicely.

Are you certain that the i-ride videos can be used with the I-Magic as well as the Fortius? Seems to me like the I-Magic may be the better deal then since you can get the unit + the swivel fork stand for $700 delivered! (not sure of the value of getting the Fortius)

 

[ucla_alum_88]

Does anyone have experience with either of these trainers? I have ridden a Computrainer twice for power testing and will be able to take the I-magic for a test ride at a local bike shop. The computrainer is about 50% more expensive ($1050 CDN for the TACX I-magic and around $1800 CDN for the Computrainer).

I want the trainer for a number of reasons: for longer indoor rides during the winter when I can't get on the road (I already have a CycleOps fluid trainer and a set of rollers); fitness/power testing; and the ability to repeat power-based intervals accurately.

I'm leaning towards the TACX I-magic because of price, but I'd like to hear opinions and experiences.

djmtoronto

I've ridden both. The CompuTrainer is far superior, although it does cost more $. I got my CT new for $700 from a guy who bought it and never used it (so he sold it to me after it sat for a year). Plus it came with the CT travel case, which I sold on ebay for $100. My net cost was just just $600. After having the CT for 6 months now, I kick myself for not buying one 2 years ago when I first considered one. I now do most of my winter riding (SF Bay Area, CA) between between 10:30 pm and midnight, three times/week. It's a HELL of a BADASS workout. It'll kick your ass. In fact, you have to keep an eye on overtraining since they're no coasting. Turn that Pacer off on easy days. Good luck with your decision. Mike

 

[Phil TurboVids]

Are you certain that the i-ride videos can be used with the I-Magic as well as the Fortius? Seems to me like the I-Magic may be the better deal then since you can get the unit + the swivel fork stand for $700 delivered! (not sure of the value of getting the Fortius)

Yes The new Real Life Video & the new very cool virtual world are both totaly compatible with the i-magic. The new software & some of the new video rides are available for sale (PayPal) via the Tacx site www.tacx.com

The Fortius is a totaly new concept in trainer tech with a motor replacing the magnets,fluid,Fans & flywheel the result is the most powerful break you can buy & the ability to your rear wheel spin at up to 25mph down hill with zero effort. This is great for eliminating that trainer 'feel'! It also looks good & I want one! It should be available in early 2005.

The new virtual world featurs riders that have been modeled from real Pro riders to get realistic movements. Its also now up to roughly the standard seen in most PC or Playstation car racing games. This should be available in the next few weeks.

For some extra info on the Real life video rides & upcoming rides go to my site & use the navigation buttons. www.i-rides.com. You can now if you own a i-magic (if not you can buy a upgrade kit) ride up l'Alpe-d'Huez & feel the grades steepen as you turn on to bend 21 for the long haul to the top. Your time may also be fairly close to real as we use virtual speed! (Although this relys on the power your pushing being close to accurate)

Regards Phil

 

[690MBCOMMANDO]

Yes The new Real Life Video & the new very cool virtual world are both totaly compatible with the i-magic. The new software & some of the new video rides are available for sale (PayPal) via the Tacx site www.tacx.com

The Fortius is a totaly new concept in trainer tech with a motor replacing the magnets,fluid,Fans & flywheel the result is the most powerful break you can buy & the ability to your rear wheel spin at up to 25mph down hill with zero effort. This is great for eliminating that trainer 'feel'! It also looks good & I want one! It should be available in early 2005.

The new virtual world featurs riders that have been modeled from real Pro riders to get realistic movements. Its also now up to roughly the standard seen in most PC or Playstation car racing games. This should be available in the next few weeks.

For some extra info on the Real life video rides & upcoming rides go to my site & use the navigation buttons. www.i-rides.com. You can now if you own a i-magic (if not you can buy a upgrade kit) ride up l'Alpe-d'Huez & feel the grades steepen as you turn on to bend 21 for the long haul to the top. Your time may also be fairly close to real as we use virtual speed! (Although this relys on the power your pushing being close to accurate)

Regards Phil

Phil -

VERY Cool website and product. Great job! If I own an I-Magic what do I need to do/download/buy to run the Real Life Video?

Is there any difference in the experience between running the Real Life Video in the Catalyst or Fortius software?

Thanks!

 

[Phil TurboVids]

If you order a Real Life Video from Tacx it will come with the new 'blue' version of Catalyst included. New updates include a spin down test & the ability to choose the place in the Real Life Video where you would want to start & end. There is also loads of other smaller changes like virtual speed & a profile that you can zoom in & out of during the ride (down arrow). There are also different ways to view the video & ride info (Up arrow).

So for example if you order the Alpine Classic for €29 you can do a 3-4hr training ride in the Alps which follows the last 85km of the 2003 tour de France stage to l'Alpe-d'Huez taking in the Col du Galibier & that long 40km descent! With a Fortius Trainer you will feel every slight change in grade on the way. With a i-magic you will feel the grades up to about 6% & then the break will be on max. If you go above 6% your virtual speed will drop. So You have to hard if you want to get to the top in a good time!

If you wanted you could just skip the climbs & do the long descents or perhaps just a TT up d'Huez, Passo Gavia or the Ventoux!

For those that do not want climbing there are some flat - rolling rides on the way like Milan San Remo, Aube Valley & the Meuse river. The Durango (Iron Horse) ride is not too hard either.

If you own a Tacx Basic, Excel or flow you can buy a cheep upgrade kit at various sites & Tacx service centers. This will effectively turn your trainer into a i-magic.

Regards Phil

 

[690MBCOMMANDO]

If you order a Real Life Video from Tacx it will come with the new 'blue' version of Catalyst included. New updates include a spin down test & the ability to choose the place in the Real Life Video where you would want to start & end. There is also loads of other smaller changes like virtual speed & a profile that you can zoom in & out of during the ride (down arrow). There are also different ways to view the video & ride info (Up arrow).

So for example if you order the Alpine Classic for €29 you can do a 3-4hr training ride in the Alps which follows the last 85km of the 2003 tour de France stage to l'Alpe-d'Huez taking in the Col du Galibier & that long 40km descent! With a Fortius Trainer you will feel every slight change in grade on the way. With a i-magic you will feel the grades up to about 6% & then the break will be on max. If you go above 6% your virtual speed will drop. So You have to hard if you want to get to the top in a good time!

If you wanted you could just skip the climbs & do the long descents or perhaps just a TT up d'Huez, Passo Gavia or the Ventoux!

For those that do not want climbing there are some flat - rolling rides on the way like Milan San Remo, Aube Valley & the Meuse river. The Durango (Iron Horse) ride is not too hard either.

If you own a Tacx Basic, Excel or flow you can buy a cheep upgrade kit at various sites & Tacx service centers. This will effectively turn your trainer into a i-magic.

Regards Phil

Awesome! I just placed by order for all 3 available DVDs today. Does the new version of Catalyst include the new virtual world as well with the upgraded graphics? Thanks!

 

[Phil TurboVids]

The new 'explorable' Virtual world should become available towards the end of December -early January & will cost €49. The price will be well worth it though as I promise there is nothing close to it on the market. This together with the Real life video will give some nice choices as to how you will train on the next rainy day!

Anything that can keep a rider with 'Trainer phobia' riding for 3 good quality hours without any extra boredom has got to be worth the price.

Regards Phil

 

[LanceKickAss]

Tacx IMagic and Catalyst are amazing, specially the RLV rocks total.

On www.tacx.com/phpbb2 forum you can also download a shareware (Polar2Tacx) tool which creates 1:1 copy of your private route, if you own a polar watch.

 

[Phil TurboVids]

I hear a rumor that Tacx will release the new virtual world CD in the next week! & from now on until spring a new Real life video will come on sale every two weeks.

The new 3d virtual world does need a fairly heavy duty graphics card (128mb) but its well worth it.

Regards Phil

www.tacx-video.com

 

[biker-linz]

I do believe that spinscan works, and I am glad that I got it.

There's a big problem with spinscan, as there is with trying to make generalisations about force application throughout the duty cycle from information measured anywhere other than in an individual crank or pedal.
As spinscan is getting its information from the back wheel it is utterly unable to tell which leg is contributing to the changes in 'smoothness' measured at the back wheel.
Secondly, even force-instrumented pedals are unable to distinguish between muscular force and the contributions of gravity and inertia. Lastly, there is no evidence that a 'smoother' pedal stroke is an improvement. The only credible study I'm aware of showed just the opposite.

Lindsay.

 

[Phil TurboVids]

There's a big problem with spinscan, as there is with trying to make generalisations about force application throughout the duty cycle from information measured anywhere other than in an individual crank or pedal.
As spinscan is getting its information from the back wheel it is utterly unable to tell which leg is contributing to the changes in 'smoothness' measured at the back wheel.
Secondly, even force-instrumented pedals are unable to distinguish between muscular force and the contributions of gravity and inertia. Lastly, there is no evidence that a 'smoother' pedal stroke is an improvement. The only credible study I'm aware of showed just the opposite.

Lindsay.

I totally agree infact I feel strongly that for massed start races, crits & flat Belgium style races you should focus the main bulk of your training on a very uneven pedal stroke! The goal is to train supply to the muscles that have the real power such as the quads & glutes. If you only push & simply raise the weight off the pedal for the rest of the cycle you will train these muscles more effectively. It will hurt more & you may have trouble sustaining a Z3 pace for long in the beginning without a brief stretch out of the saddle but you will see & feel changes that will result in you having some real fire power.

There are also many events that require a sustained effort such as long climbs,TTs & distance events. I think for these events a more even pedal style maybe helpful. MTB requires strong hamstrings & the ability to apply pressure to the rear wheel at all pedal positions so a smooth stroke would be helpful for this type of event also.

The above goes against cycling folk law but if you give it some thought you may realize like me that a smooth stroke may lead to a serious lack of top end power if you train with this as your goal.

 

[lowracervk2]

I would also like to add, if it hasn't already been discussed, is the I-magic archive site. Here is where you go to race against other riders on courses. Tons of courses available to download and race against your peers.

http://imagic.e-cycling.se/index.php