Congestion Charge

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Gonzalez, Feb 14, 2003.

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  1. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Guest

    >"Gonzalez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >
    >> Lewisham to Stanmore (South East to North West London) took less than 60 minutes for the bargain
    >> price of £3.40.
    >
    > 20mph and 17p a mile, which is about average for PT.

    The journey by car at that time can take two hours. I could have cut the journey time by at least 10
    minutes by taking the train from Lewisham to Waterloo East and changing to the Jubilee Line there. I
    simply prefer the DLR.
    --
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  2. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Guest

    >All some considerable distance from (a) the middle of London (b) the congestion charge area.

    They were the routes given to me as examples of a nightmare trip using London's excellent public
    transport system.
    --
    remove remove to reply
     
  3. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Guest

    >I live a good two miles from Bromley South so its a bus first. Takes me over an hour and a half on
    >public transport, I can ride it in under 30 minutes. Although the tram link is good, a pity they
    >didn't extend it a bit further :eek:(

    I believe the 261 runs a regular service to Bromley South. But I agree that bike and public
    transport offer a powerful door to door transport solution.
    --
    remove remove to reply
     
  4. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Guest

    >All some considerable distance from (a) the middle of London (b) the congestion charge area.

    Perhaps you'd care to list trips which are difficult on the fantastic public transport system within
    the congestion charging zone.
    --
    remove remove to reply
     
  5. Dwb

    Dwb Guest

    Gonzalez wrote:
    >> All some considerable distance from (a) the middle of London (b) the congestion charge area.
    >
    > Perhaps you'd care to list trips which are difficult on the fantastic public transport system
    > within the congestion charging zone.

    Yes Mr Troll, you can get from A-B. I don't think anyone has ever argued that you couldn't. It's the
    conditions in which you have to travel to do that and the cost, that people don't like.

    An example - try get into (not even on a train) Charing Cross station betweeen 5-7pm on a weekday.
    Try to get onto a Piccadilly line train between 5 and 6:30. This is when they are running
    *normally*. Train services out of CX are usually delayed (occasionally by a lot) and the other
    station I use (Paddington) has been doing the same of late.

    My travel card costs me £197 a month.
     
  6. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On Sat, 15 Feb 2003 09:37:51 +0000, Gonzalez <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Two weeks ago I went mountaineering in North Wales. On Thursday night I parked my car in Stanmore,
    >at the foot of the M1

    When I were a lad we regularly used to drive from St Albans to Stanmore, park up and hop on the
    tube. Cheaper, quicker and more reliable than trying to park in London, we found.

    Guy
    ===
    ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
    dynamic DNS permitting)
    NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
    work. Apologies.
     
  7. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On Sat, 15 Feb 2003 10:10:35 -0000, "Frank" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Try getting the train everyday, try waiting for an hour outside London Bridge without an
    >explanation, try dirty smelly over crowded late trains. Try waiting on the platform only to be told
    >your train has been cancelled.

    Yes, I was on a train that was delayed once. Mind you, I have driven into London on occasion, and it
    routinely takes well over twice as long as the train, even without the lorry shedding its load at
    the Hanger Lae Gyratory (translation: car park full, don't expect to move for the next four hours).

    Guy
    ===
    ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
    dynamic DNS permitting)
    NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
    work. Apologies.
     
  8. Huge

    Huge Guest

    "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> writes:
    >On Sat, 15 Feb 2003 10:10:35 -0000, "Frank" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>Try getting the train everyday, try waiting for an hour outside London Bridge without an
    >>explanation, try dirty smelly over crowded late trains. Try waiting on the platform only to be
    >>told your train has been cancelled.
    >
    >Yes, I was on a train that was delayed once.

    Lying fuck.

    My journey to work has been delayed every day this week. Both directions. 100% failure rate. Well
    done, "Transport" for London and Thames"link".

    --
    "The road to Paradise is through Intercourse." The uk.transport FAQ;
    http://www.huge.org.uk/transport/FAQ.html [email me at huge [at] huge [dot] org [dot] uk]
     
  9. Frank

    Frank Guest

    "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Yes, I was on a train that was delayed once. Mind you, I have driven into London on occasion,
    > and it routinely takes well over twice as long as the train, even without the lorry shedding its
    > load at the Hanger Lae Gyratory (translation: car park full, don't expect to move for the next
    > four hours).
    >

    Try commuting, at least once a week everything will be totally messed up, no explanation, no help
    apparently nothing done to help you get home. Your train may have been canceled an hour ago but they
    won't tell you until a couple of minutes before it is due, by that time you've missed a slightly
    less convienient alternative.

    I had to give up commuting by Train because I was filled with hatred of Connex, complete an
    utter shambles.

    I know you don't commute by train so I don't know why you even make comments like this. I gave up
    trying to drive into London years ago, hopefully the congestion charge will make this possible
    once more.



    > Guy
    > ===
    > ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
    > dynamic DNS permitting)
    > NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
    > work. Apologies.
     
  10. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Guest

    >When I were a lad we regularly used to drive from St Albans to Stanmore, park up and hop on the
    >tube. Cheaper, quicker and more reliable than trying to park in London, we found.

    Absolutely. I really do think that Transport for London should consider setting up car parks with
    secure cycle storage around the M25 and major routes into London and make many roads into Central
    London open to busses and cycles only during peak hours. A serious attempt at a Park & Ride scheme
    for a major city.
    --
    remove remove to reply
     
  11. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Guest

    >An example - try get into (not even on a train) Charing Cross station betweeen 5-7pm on a weekday.
    >Try to get onto a Piccadilly line train between 5 and 6:30. This is when they are running
    >*normally*. Train services out of CX are usually delayed (occasionally by a lot) and the other
    >station I use (Paddington) has been doing the same of late.

    Now here's a coincidence. Shortly before Christmas I happened to be wanting to travel from Lewisham
    to Dartington (Devon), to arrive at Dartington Youth Hostel by 10pm.

    I left Lewisham at 17:45, arrived at Charing Cross at about 18:00, had a leisurely cycle ride up the
    Mall and across Hyde Park on an excellent cycle path and arrived at Paddington by 18:15. My train
    departed Paddington at 18:32 (1 minute early) and arrived at Totnes at
    21:45. I arrived at the Youth Hostel at five to ten.

    The ticket price was £41 return. The journey time was a refreshing 4 hours and 10 minutes, and I
    arrived at the Youth Hostel invigorated by a chilly 10 minute ride from Totnes Station, with a bike
    fully laden with walking and climbing equipment. My friends and I had two excellent days waking and
    climbing on Dartmoor.

    Car sharing would have been a cheaper option, but certainly not quicker and definitely more
    stressful.

    London has an excellent transport system. The national railways could be quicker, but they're
    certainly better than most roads.
    --
    remove remove to reply
     
  12. W K

    W K Guest

    "Huge" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> writes:
    > >On Sat, 15 Feb 2003 10:10:35 -0000, "Frank" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >>Try getting the train everyday, try waiting for an hour outside London Bridge without an
    > >>explanation, try dirty smelly over crowded late
    trains.
    > >>Try waiting on the platform only to be told your train has been
    cancelled.
    > >
    > >Yes, I was on a train that was delayed once.
    >
    > Lying fuck.

    Watch your language.

    That is not standard english usage. Have you been watching the Sopranos too much? I always thought
    you were more like Boris Johnson than James Gandolfini

    > My journey to work has been delayed every day this week. Both directions. 100% failure rate. Well
    > done, "Transport" for London and Thames"link".

    Tee Hee. Some trains are better than others. I had one 15 min delay this week, perhaps some others
    too. But I have a stereo and a book and a calmer attitude so I don't GAS.
     
  13. W K

    W K Guest

    "Gonzalez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >When I were a lad we regularly used to drive from St Albans to Stanmore, park up and hop on the
    > >tube. Cheaper, quicker and more reliable than trying to park in London, we found.
    >
    > Absolutely. I really do think that Transport for London should consider setting up car parks with
    > secure cycle storage

    Bikes fit inside most cars you know!

    Find a suburban street and park the car there. Somewhere leafy and park it somewhere 50 yards away
    so people don't see a pattern.
     
  14. Steve Firth

    Steve Firth Guest

    Just zis Guy, you know? <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Yes, I was on a train that was delayed once.

    One presumes in that case you have only ever used a train once or twice.

    I use the train whenever I travel to work in London. I haven't yet arrived on time, nor have I had a
    seat for the inward journey since 1983. On my return home it is routine and has been since 1987 to
    discover that the train scheduled to leave shortly before 4:30 pm has been cancelled and those who
    were expecting to use it now have to cram onto the same train as the commuters, making life hell for
    all of us.

    I have been abandoned several times in the middle of nowhere, including being abandoned on a train
    without light or heat at 2am just outside Manchester Picadilly when my PDA told me that temperatures
    inside the train fell to -4C. I finally got to my destination at 10.15 am (I should have been there
    12 hours before), frozen, hungry and just a few hours away from my return journey.

    I have honestly lost count of the number of times I have seen the train I was waiting for
    cancelled, reduced to half its normal length, or to make it from the station only to break down and
    have to wait for another locomotive to push it on to the next station where we all debark to wait
    for the next scheduled train which now has to proceeed with the train packed with the passengers
    from two trains.

    Suffice it to say that I consider the existence of seats on trains to be a theory that no one has
    yet managed to prove.

    My mother who is in her 80s and arthritic was abandoned at a station 240 miles from her home by a
    bunch of useless tossers who simply stopped the train and walked away from it, leaving the
    passengers alone on an empty station. The next train scheduled to stop at that station was eight
    hours later and it wasn't a direct train back home but one that required two changes of train
    (whereas she had been booked on a service that took her directly to the nearest mainline station to
    her home). She was expected to sit on the platform in the middle of a vicious winter until the next
    train arrived. No offer of alternative transport, no attempt to provide food or warmth. Eventually
    she phoned me and I had to drive a round trip of just under 600 miles to collect her, take her home
    and return home myself.

    My daughter was abandoned at Crewe where "friendly" staff told her to stop complaining, sit on a
    bench all night and there would be another train in the morning.

    So, that's two vulnerable lone women abandoned by railway staff, something which is absolutely
    forbidden on the motorway network. On the same day my mother was abandoned, so were an entire pack
    of cub scouts (on a different train) and again station staff refused to open a waiting room for them
    and also refused to allow them to contact their parents.

    FWIW I regularly travel to Hanger Lane and use the North Circular into Archway. Any delays I have
    suffered have been minimal. But that's because I drive that route. Hanger Lane used to be a standing
    joke in the 80s, it was however discovered that the light phasing was incorrect. Once that was fixed
    traffic flow improved and I have not encountered any problems of note there for over a decade.

    By contrast in the 20 years that I have been running backwards and forwards from the south to
    the northwest using the motorway network, I have suffered at most a handful of delays and on
    only two occasions have these delays exceeded one hour. Even when the car I was driving threw a
    connecting rod through the engine block, I was home just two and a half hours later than my
    normal arrival time.

    --
    end.
     
  15. Dwb

    Dwb Guest

    Gonzalez wrote:

    > Shortly before Christmas I happened to be
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    THis does not count. You try it now. This week. A normal day. Not when half the London population is
    not at work.

    > I left Lewisham at 17:45, arrived at Charing Cross at about 18:00, had

    You're going in the OTHER direction. Try going FROM Charing Cross.

    >
    > London has an excellent transport system. The national railways could be quicker, but they're
    > certainly better than most roads.

    Again, you've ignored what I said - the concept is good - the conditions that those using it have to
    endure every day are not.

    You travel *every* working day on London public transport and I simply cannot believe you will stay
    so happy about it all.
     
  16. Dwb

    Dwb Guest

    Gonzalez wrote:
    >> When I were a lad we regularly used to drive from St Albans to Stanmore, park up and hop on the
    >> tube. Cheaper, quicker and more reliable than trying to park in London, we found.
    >
    > Absolutely. I really do think that Transport for London should consider setting up car parks with
    > secure cycle storage around the M25 and major routes into London and make many roads into Central
    > London open to busses and cycles only during peak hours. A serious attempt at a Park & Ride scheme
    > for a major city.

    And what about powered two wheelers, or are they not fit to appear in your grand plan?
     
  17. Toby Sleigh

    Toby Sleigh Guest

    "W K" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Gonzalez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > >When I were a lad we regularly used to drive from St Albans to Stanmore, park up and hop on the
    > > >tube. Cheaper, quicker and more reliable than trying to park in London, we found.
    > >
    > > Absolutely. I really do think that Transport for London should consider setting up car parks
    > > with secure cycle storage
    >
    > Bikes fit inside most cars you know!
    >
    > Find a suburban street and park the car there. Somewhere leafy and park
    it
    > somewhere 50 yards away so people don't see a pattern.
    >
    >
    Bollocks. I get fed up with bloody commuters cluttering up our street. Toby - Ealing
     
  18. Andy Kelly

    Andy Kelly Guest

    On 14/2/03 21:59, in article [email protected], "Tony W"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    > "Frank" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>> Would London's Mayor be better advised into putting money raised from the Congestion Charge into
    >>> enhanced provision for cyclists than London's already excellent public transport system?
    >>> --
    >> excellent public transport system?
    >>
    >> I think you have mistaken London with somewhere else.
    >
    > No. London does have an excellent, but decaying, transport system. Both the tube and surface train
    > systems are extensive but have been starved of even the minimum investment needed to maintain the
    > system for at least 30 years. The bus system's main problem is that the roads are now clogged with
    > thousands of cars.
    >
    > T
    >
    >
    Take a trip to Vienna and look at their public transport system. They have trams, trains,
    underground and buses - all running on time (i.e every 3 or 4 minutes) and much cheaper than London.

    I would say that the public transport system as a whole in the UK, is very poor at the side of what
    I saw in Austria.
     
  19. Ben Tansley

    Ben Tansley Guest

    "dwb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Gonzalez wrote:
    >
    > > Shortly before Christmas I happened to be
    > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >
    > THis does not count. You try it now. This week. A normal day. Not when
    half
    > the London population is not at work.
    >
    > > I left Lewisham at 17:45, arrived at Charing Cross at about 18:00, had
    >
    > You're going in the OTHER direction. Try going FROM Charing Cross.
    >
    > >
    > > London has an excellent transport system. The national railways could be quicker, but they're
    > > certainly better than most roads.
    >
    > Again, you've ignored what I said - the concept is good - the conditions that those using it have
    > to endure every day are not.
    >
    > You travel *every* working day on London public transport and I simply cannot believe you will
    > stay so happy about it all.
    >

    Maybe we should try to get some of those using it out into the open air and on their bikes?

    --
    Ben
     
  20. "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote: ...
    | Yes, I was on a train that was delayed once. Mind you, I have driven into London on occasion,
    | and it routinely takes well over twice as long as the train, even without the lorry shedding its
    | load at the Hanger Lae Gyratory (translation: car park full, don't expect to move for the next
    | four hours).

    Best graffitti I ever saw was on a wall in the Hanger Lane Gyratory underpass. It just said "If?".

    --
    Patrick Herring, Sheffield, UK http://www.anweald.co.uk
     
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