Considering a Vision Tamdem - Advice?

[Steve Christens]

My wife and I are in the market for a tandem, and I insist it be a recumbent, since I already ride
and love my Vision VR-42. We tried the RANS Screamer, but it felt terrible, and just didn't fit her
(5'2" with short legs). We haven't been able to find anything from Longbikes to try, so that leaves
the Vision.

I would appreciate hearing from Double Vision owners with advice or suggestions or opinions. Would
you do it again? What would you change? VR82 or the 85? (Leaning towards the 85 right now.)
Suspension front fork necessary? (Also leaning that way.) What about the rear drum brake? (s it
worth the weight and expense, considering we ride in the mostly flat midwest?)

Thanks,

Steve Christensen Midland, MI [email protected]

 

[Steve Christens]

My wife and I are in the market for a tandem, and I insist it be a recumbent, since I already ride
and love my Vision VR-42. We tried the RANS Screamer, but it felt terrible, and just didn't fit her
(5'2" with short legs). We haven't been able to find anything from Longbikes to try, so that leaves
the Vision.

I would appreciate hearing from Double Vision owners with advice or suggestions or opinions. Would
you do it again? What would you change? VR82 or the 85? (Leaning towards the 85 right now.)
Suspension front fork necessary? (Also leaning that way.) What about the rear drum brake? (s it
worth the weight and expense, considering we ride in the mostly flat midwest?)

Thanks,

Steve Christensen Midland, MI [email protected]

 

[Baronn1]

My two cents worth: My ex-wife, who was 5'2" with short legs and lacked any notion of coordination,
loved riding our RANS Screamer with IPS. My current wife who is 5'2 with short legs liked the
Screamer with IPS, but we sold it. She'd rather train to just flat out beat me on our Bacchetta
Giros. Do you see a recurring theme here? (ex) wife+ %'2" with short legs = Screamer + IPS

"Steve Christensen" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Steve says...
> >
> >My wife and I are in the market for a tandem, and I insist it be a
recumbent,
> >since I already ride and love my Vision VR-42. We tried the RANS
Screamer, but
> >it felt terrible, and just didn't fit her (5'2" with short legs). We
haven't
> >been able to find anything from Longbikes to try, so that leaves the
Vision.
> >
> >I would appreciate hearing from Double Vision owners with advice or
suggestions
> >or opinions. Would you do it again? What would you change? VR82 or the
85?
> >(Leaning towards the 85 right now.) Suspension front fork necessary?
(Also
> >leaning that way.) What about the rear drum brake? (s it worth the
weight and
> >expense, considering we ride in the mostly flat midwest?)
>
>
> Oh, and I forgot to ask about IPS. Recommended?
>
> Steve Christensen Midland, MI

 

[Baronn1]

My two cents worth: My ex-wife, who was 5'2" with short legs and lacked any notion of coordination,
loved riding our RANS Screamer with IPS. My current wife who is 5'2 with short legs liked the
Screamer with IPS, but we sold it. She'd rather train to just flat out beat me on our Bacchetta
Giros. Do you see a recurring theme here? (ex) wife+ %'2" with short legs = Screamer + IPS

"Steve Christensen" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Steve says...
> >
> >My wife and I are in the market for a tandem, and I insist it be a
recumbent,
> >since I already ride and love my Vision VR-42. We tried the RANS
Screamer, but
> >it felt terrible, and just didn't fit her (5'2" with short legs). We
haven't
> >been able to find anything from Longbikes to try, so that leaves the
Vision.
> >
> >I would appreciate hearing from Double Vision owners with advice or
suggestions
> >or opinions. Would you do it again? What would you change? VR82 or the
85?
> >(Leaning towards the 85 right now.) Suspension front fork necessary?
(Also
> >leaning that way.) What about the rear drum brake? (s it worth the
weight and
> >expense, considering we ride in the mostly flat midwest?)
>
>
> Oh, and I forgot to ask about IPS. Recommended?
>
> Steve Christensen Midland, MI

 

[Dave Jones]

Steve Christensen <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
snippity do dah
> I would appreciate hearing from Double Vision owners with advice or suggestions or opinions. Would
> you do it again? What would you change? VR82 or the 85? (Leaning towards the 85 right now.)
> Suspension front fork necessary? (Also leaning that way.) What about the rear drum brake? (s it
> worth the weight and expense, considering we ride in the mostly flat midwest?)

You don't need the front fork IMHO. Sue and I have an 82 that we bought used from a dude in your
neck of the woods. Used visions are as scarce as hen's teeth, BTW. The frame has plenty of spring
in it to soak up the bumps so you don't need suspension. We have had our vision up to 43 mph very
very briefly on a downhill and we have never needed the arai rear drum but I have seen a lightened
version of the arai at the hostel shoppe--IF we were to tour in a very hilly region then we might
spring for one but you won't need on on flat ground--I am continuously amazed at the vast
improvement in braking materials for bicycles in the past few years; they just last forever
compared to 20 yers ago. Are you sure that you and your wife are tandem folks? I have spoken to
several couples that told us that the tandem experience almost ruined ther marriages. Sue wsn't
much of a bicyclist before we started tandeming so she is much more forgiving of my biking habits
than I would be of hers if she were the pilot/shifter, (Sue is a better person than I am, right
Sugar?) We love ours and ride it at every opportunity and ride indoors on a trainer in cold or
inclement weather. Definitely do make your tandem a recumbent--Sue wouldn't ride with me if we were
on a DF. Luck! dj.

 

[Akensmith]

>We haven't been able to find anything from Longbikes to try, so that leaves
the Vision.>>

Well, not exactly. There is the Barcroft Columbia. It should accommodate a 5' 2" stoker with no
problem. I ordered the shock fork for ours. Were I to do it again, I wouldn't bother with
suspension.

Norm

 

[Dave Jones]

Steve Christensen <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
snippity do dah
> I would appreciate hearing from Double Vision owners with advice or suggestions or opinions. Would
> you do it again? What would you change? VR82 or the 85? (Leaning towards the 85 right now.)
> Suspension front fork necessary? (Also leaning that way.) What about the rear drum brake? (s it
> worth the weight and expense, considering we ride in the mostly flat midwest?)

You don't need the front fork IMHO. Sue and I have an 82 that we bought used from a dude in your
neck of the woods. Used visions are as scarce as hen's teeth, BTW. The frame has plenty of spring
in it to soak up the bumps so you don't need suspension. We have had our vision up to 43 mph very
very briefly on a downhill and we have never needed the arai rear drum but I have seen a lightened
version of the arai at the hostel shoppe--IF we were to tour in a very hilly region then we might
spring for one but you won't need on on flat ground--I am continuously amazed at the vast
improvement in braking materials for bicycles in the past few years; they just last forever
compared to 20 yers ago. Are you sure that you and your wife are tandem folks? I have spoken to
several couples that told us that the tandem experience almost ruined ther marriages. Sue wsn't
much of a bicyclist before we started tandeming so she is much more forgiving of my biking habits
than I would be of hers if she were the pilot/shifter, (Sue is a better person than I am, right
Sugar?) We love ours and ride it at every opportunity and ride indoors on a trainer in cold or
inclement weather. Definitely do make your tandem a recumbent--Sue wouldn't ride with me if we were
on a DF. Luck! dj.

 

[Akensmith]

>We haven't been able to find anything from Longbikes to try, so that leaves
the Vision.>>

Well, not exactly. There is the Barcroft Columbia. It should accommodate a 5' 2" stoker with no
problem. I ordered the shock fork for ours. Were I to do it again, I wouldn't bother with
suspension.

Norm

 

[Shortboat]

>We tried the RANS Screamer, but it felt terrible, and just didn't fit her (5'2" with short legs).

Steve, I am confused at 5' 2" was the stoker not able to reach the pedals or reach the ground with
her "short legs" ? Another response said "Rans too short" "She felt cramped" at 5' 2". Another
response said his ex wife as well as the present wife (both at 5' 2") found the Rans just right.
Sounds Goldielocks and the three bears. My question is if there is not enough room for the average
height stoker then who is the Rans made for? My wife is 5' 6" and rides a M/L Tour Easy. She is also
the stoker for our Rans Screamer. Plenty of room for her to pedal and talk on the phone at the same
time. I have seen others stokers reading books while pedalling.

Another response implied the Screamer was faster than the DV. I have not found that to be true in my
experience but then maybe the more flexing frame of the DV could contribute to this. I think it is a
minute point. I find the front fork shock to be nice since the route I usually take is very rough. I
would not recomend it for everyone, it depends on your use. As for the drag brake. It came on the
bike and I think I would want it on long hills. That is a lot of bike to control on steep hills.
That being said i have never had to use it here as Ride mostly rails to trails. It works nice as a
parking brake. It would be very expensive to add later if you needed it. I would not want to be
caught in situation where I needed it and did not have
it. I am told the reason for it is to prevent overheating of the rims on long down hill runs.
Before I bought my Rans I tried to find out from other owners what the big deal was about
tandems. I could never get a good response. In retrospect I find the biggest reason folks own
them is because it is a fun thing to do with your riding partner. This is most important when
one rider is at a differnat level then the other. It allows them to always be thogether and
eliminates having to wait for the slower rider to catch up or worse having to worry about the
other getting lost or seperated. However as another response has said there are those who
prefer to ride at their own rate rather than a compromised speed . I personally find that our
speed on the tandem is slower than if we rode together on single bikes. I realize that this is
not true for other riders. I find the best part of owning the tandem is the novelty of riding a
tandem and the lesiure rides together as a "team". If I were to buy again, I would look for the
best deal on a bike with the features that would suit my use best.

 

[Shortboat]

>We tried the RANS Screamer, but it felt terrible, and just didn't fit her (5'2" with short legs).

Steve, I am confused at 5' 2" was the stoker not able to reach the pedals or reach the ground with
her "short legs" ? Another response said "Rans too short" "She felt cramped" at 5' 2". Another
response said his ex wife as well as the present wife (both at 5' 2") found the Rans just right.
Sounds Goldielocks and the three bears. My question is if there is not enough room for the average
height stoker then who is the Rans made for? My wife is 5' 6" and rides a M/L Tour Easy. She is also
the stoker for our Rans Screamer. Plenty of room for her to pedal and talk on the phone at the same
time. I have seen others stokers reading books while pedalling.

Another response implied the Screamer was faster than the DV. I have not found that to be true in my
experience but then maybe the more flexing frame of the DV could contribute to this. I think it is a
minute point. I find the front fork shock to be nice since the route I usually take is very rough. I
would not recomend it for everyone, it depends on your use. As for the drag brake. It came on the
bike and I think I would want it on long hills. That is a lot of bike to control on steep hills.
That being said i have never had to use it here as Ride mostly rails to trails. It works nice as a
parking brake. It would be very expensive to add later if you needed it. I would not want to be
caught in situation where I needed it and did not have
it. I am told the reason for it is to prevent overheating of the rims on long down hill runs.
Before I bought my Rans I tried to find out from other owners what the big deal was about
tandems. I could never get a good response. In retrospect I find the biggest reason folks own
them is because it is a fun thing to do with your riding partner. This is most important when
one rider is at a differnat level then the other. It allows them to always be thogether and
eliminates having to wait for the slower rider to catch up or worse having to worry about the
other getting lost or seperated. However as another response has said there are those who
prefer to ride at their own rate rather than a compromised speed . I personally find that our
speed on the tandem is slower than if we rode together on single bikes. I realize that this is
not true for other riders. I find the best part of owning the tandem is the novelty of riding a
tandem and the lesiure rides together as a "team". If I were to buy again, I would look for the
best deal on a bike with the features that would suit my use best.

 

[Mike S]

[email protected] (Akensmith) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >We haven't been able to find anything from Longbikes to try, so that leaves
> the Vision.>>
>
> Well, not exactly. There is the Barcroft Columbia. It should accommodate a 5' 2" stoker with no
> problem. I ordered the shock fork for ours. Were I to do it again, I wouldn't bother with
> suspension.
>
> Norm

Have ridden the Screamer, Vision and the Barcroft. I thought the Screamer was a nice bike but
handled long. It just wasn't nimble enough. It reminded me of a midsize sedan. The Vision was not a
quick handling bike but very plush in its ride. I thought I was riding in a Continental or Cadillac.
I couldn't shake the feeling that the captain was turning twenty feet ahead of the stoker. We
selected the Barcroft. It reminded me of a sports car (in the tandem world obviously) It was
shorter, more nimble and fit our needs. My wife is 5' 5" and has decent room as a stoker. A 5' 2"
stoker would have no problem as there is plenty of room to move her seat forward. We investigated
IPS and decided against it. Those tandemists we spoke too felt it not worth much. We have never had
a problem with our pedaling even though we are not equal in strength. Good luck on your selection.

 

[Tom Keitel]

Connie & I have had our Vision R82 for two full seasons and about 2,800 miles. Had ridden a Santana
for 20 years and found the Vision to be much superior to the Rans after test rides (Rans too short
for 5'2" stoker and she felt very cramped).

Vision has been a very good bike but we made a point to get it without IPS. One of our test rides
was with IPS which is great if you are getting used to riding a recumbent, but we have found that
the predictability of fixed pedaling is much more stable and reassuring. We also have pedals 90
degrees out of phase to help with startups and stops. This also helps smooth out the ride and is how
we had the Santana set up.

Our only challenge is transporting the bike due to its length. Modified a DraftMaster tandem rack to
accomodate the 10" longer wheelbase and it works well, but having the bike out in the elements is
not perfect.

Be aware of the frame problem on used Visions, with reported 3 failures in the last two years. I
inspect the problem area at least once a month for cracks, etc. The new models have probably been
modified to correct this.

We would highly recommend the bike and have no desire to go back to DF or to ever replace it. This
will probably be our last & only tandem as we near retirement.

 

[Mike S]

[email protected] (Akensmith) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >We haven't been able to find anything from Longbikes to try, so that leaves
> the Vision.>>
>
> Well, not exactly. There is the Barcroft Columbia. It should accommodate a 5' 2" stoker with no
> problem. I ordered the shock fork for ours. Were I to do it again, I wouldn't bother with
> suspension.
>
> Norm

Have ridden the Screamer, Vision and the Barcroft. I thought the Screamer was a nice bike but
handled long. It just wasn't nimble enough. It reminded me of a midsize sedan. The Vision was not a
quick handling bike but very plush in its ride. I thought I was riding in a Continental or Cadillac.
I couldn't shake the feeling that the captain was turning twenty feet ahead of the stoker. We
selected the Barcroft. It reminded me of a sports car (in the tandem world obviously) It was
shorter, more nimble and fit our needs. My wife is 5' 5" and has decent room as a stoker. A 5' 2"
stoker would have no problem as there is plenty of room to move her seat forward. We investigated
IPS and decided against it. Those tandemists we spoke too felt it not worth much. We have never had
a problem with our pedaling even though we are not equal in strength. Good luck on your selection.

 

[Tom Keitel]

Connie & I have had our Vision R82 for two full seasons and about 2,800 miles. Had ridden a Santana
for 20 years and found the Vision to be much superior to the Rans after test rides (Rans too short
for 5'2" stoker and she felt very cramped).

Vision has been a very good bike but we made a point to get it without IPS. One of our test rides
was with IPS which is great if you are getting used to riding a recumbent, but we have found that
the predictability of fixed pedaling is much more stable and reassuring. We also have pedals 90
degrees out of phase to help with startups and stops. This also helps smooth out the ride and is how
we had the Santana set up.

Our only challenge is transporting the bike due to its length. Modified a DraftMaster tandem rack to
accomodate the 10" longer wheelbase and it works well, but having the bike out in the elements is
not perfect.

Be aware of the frame problem on used Visions, with reported 3 failures in the last two years. I
inspect the problem area at least once a month for cracks, etc. The new models have probably been
modified to correct this.

We would highly recommend the bike and have no desire to go back to DF or to ever replace it. This
will probably be our last & only tandem as we near retirement.

 

[Steve Christens]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> >We tried the RANS Screamer, but
>>it felt terrible, and just didn't fit her (5'2" with short legs).
>
>Steve, I am confused at 5' 2" was the stoker not able to reach the pedals or reach the ground with
>her "short legs" ? Another response said "Rans too short" "She felt cramped" at 5' 2". Another
>response said his ex wife as well as the present wife (both at 5' 2") found the Rans just right.
>Sounds Goldielocks and the three bears. My question is if there is not enough room for the average
>height stoker then who is the Rans made for? My wife is 5' 6" and rides a M/L Tour Easy. She is
>also the stoker for our Rans Screamer. Plenty of room for her to pedal and talk on the phone at the
>same time. I have seen others stokers reading books while pedalling.

A number of people have commented that their 5' 2" partners ride and like the Screamer, but when my
5' 2" wife (who has relatively short legs for her height) tried one she had to put the seat so far
forward that she felt as if she were practically right over the BB. The resulting pedaling angle
felt very inefficient, and the seat chafed on the back of her thighs. Shouldn't be too much of a
surprise though, since the DF my wife rides is a Trek WSD with 650 wheels. (Can you say really
small?) But the experience does leave me wondering about any recumbent tandem with the stoker BB
well below the seat height (as on the Screamer) rather than roughly equal to the seat height (as on
the Vision). For that reason the Vision looks really attractive.

Greg Peek at Longbikes emailed me in response to my post, about seeing if I could find one of his
recumbent tandems to try, and it looks as if the Duplex will be in lower Michigan in a couple of
months. I am really looking forward to giving that bike a try.

Steve Christensen Midland, MI [email protected]

 

[Steve Christens]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> >We tried the RANS Screamer, but
>>it felt terrible, and just didn't fit her (5'2" with short legs).
>
>Steve, I am confused at 5' 2" was the stoker not able to reach the pedals or reach the ground with
>her "short legs" ? Another response said "Rans too short" "She felt cramped" at 5' 2". Another
>response said his ex wife as well as the present wife (both at 5' 2") found the Rans just right.
>Sounds Goldielocks and the three bears. My question is if there is not enough room for the average
>height stoker then who is the Rans made for? My wife is 5' 6" and rides a M/L Tour Easy. She is
>also the stoker for our Rans Screamer. Plenty of room for her to pedal and talk on the phone at the
>same time. I have seen others stokers reading books while pedalling.

A number of people have commented that their 5' 2" partners ride and like the Screamer, but when my
5' 2" wife (who has relatively short legs for her height) tried one she had to put the seat so far
forward that she felt as if she were practically right over the BB. The resulting pedaling angle
felt very inefficient, and the seat chafed on the back of her thighs. Shouldn't be too much of a
surprise though, since the DF my wife rides is a Trek WSD with 650 wheels. (Can you say really
small?) But the experience does leave me wondering about any recumbent tandem with the stoker BB
well below the seat height (as on the Screamer) rather than roughly equal to the seat height (as on
the Vision). For that reason the Vision looks really attractive.

Greg Peek at Longbikes emailed me in response to my post, about seeing if I could find one of his
recumbent tandems to try, and it looks as if the Duplex will be in lower Michigan in a couple of
months. I am really looking forward to giving that bike a try.

Steve Christensen Midland, MI [email protected]

 

[Zach Kaplan Cyc]

Lets see, the Screamer first became available in 1996 so within a period of less than 7 years you
have gotten rid of one wife and obtained another. Fast work mate. I've been looking for a girlfriend
for more years than 7 than I care to admit. Except based on my height I think 5' 2" would be too
short for me. What is your secret? Riding around on the Screamer solo? Been there, done that, picked
up a couple women that way but it didn't go that far.

Zach Kaplan

"baronn1" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> My two cents worth: My ex-wife, who was 5'2" with short legs and lacked any notion of
> coordination, loved riding our RANS Screamer with IPS. My current wife who is 5'2 with short
> legs liked the Screamer with IPS, but we sold it. She'd rather train to just flat out beat me on
> our Bacchetta Giros. Do you see a recurring theme here? (ex) wife+ %'2" with short legs =
> Screamer + IPS
>
>
> "Steve Christensen" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>, Steve says...
> > >
> > >My wife and I are in the market for a tandem, and I insist it be a
> recumbent,
> > >since I already ride and love my Vision VR-42. We tried the RANS
> Screamer, but
> > >it felt terrible, and just didn't fit her (5'2" with short legs). We
> haven't
> > >been able to find anything from Longbikes to try, so that leaves the
> Vision.
> > >
> > >I would appreciate hearing from Double Vision owners with advice or
> suggestions
> > >or opinions. Would you do it again? What would you change? VR82 or the
> 85?
> > >(Leaning towards the 85 right now.) Suspension front fork necessary?
> (Also
> > >leaning that way.) What about the rear drum brake? (s it worth the
> weight and
> > >expense, considering we ride in the mostly flat midwest?)
> >
> >
> > Oh, and I forgot to ask about IPS. Recommended?
> >
> > Steve Christensen Midland, MI

 

[Greg Peek]

Steve, Please contact me at [email protected] to discuss tandems. I sent you an email direct, but
it bounced back.

Thanks, Greg Peek Longbikes mailto:[email protected]

> "Steve Christensen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Steve Christensen Midland, MI

 

[Zach Kaplan Cyc]

Lets see, the Screamer first became available in 1996 so within a period of less than 7 years you
have gotten rid of one wife and obtained another. Fast work mate. I've been looking for a girlfriend
for more years than 7 than I care to admit. Except based on my height I think 5' 2" would be too
short for me. What is your secret? Riding around on the Screamer solo? Been there, done that, picked
up a couple women that way but it didn't go that far.

Zach Kaplan

"baronn1" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> My two cents worth: My ex-wife, who was 5'2" with short legs and lacked any notion of
> coordination, loved riding our RANS Screamer with IPS. My current wife who is 5'2 with short
> legs liked the Screamer with IPS, but we sold it. She'd rather train to just flat out beat me on
> our Bacchetta Giros. Do you see a recurring theme here? (ex) wife+ %'2" with short legs =
> Screamer + IPS
>
>
> "Steve Christensen" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>, Steve says...
> > >
> > >My wife and I are in the market for a tandem, and I insist it be a
> recumbent,
> > >since I already ride and love my Vision VR-42. We tried the RANS
> Screamer, but
> > >it felt terrible, and just didn't fit her (5'2" with short legs). We
> haven't
> > >been able to find anything from Longbikes to try, so that leaves the
> Vision.
> > >
> > >I would appreciate hearing from Double Vision owners with advice or
> suggestions
> > >or opinions. Would you do it again? What would you change? VR82 or the
> 85?
> > >(Leaning towards the 85 right now.) Suspension front fork necessary?
> (Also
> > >leaning that way.) What about the rear drum brake? (s it worth the
> weight and
> > >expense, considering we ride in the mostly flat midwest?)
> >
> >
> > Oh, and I forgot to ask about IPS. Recommended?
> >
> > Steve Christensen Midland, MI

 

[Greg Peek]

Steve, Please contact me at [email protected] to discuss tandems. I sent you an email direct, but
it bounced back.

Thanks, Greg Peek Longbikes mailto:[email protected]

> "Steve Christensen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Steve Christensen Midland, MI