Consumer Warning!!

[CELLbikes]

Scott,

Have you ever been to our shop? If you feel unwelcome, what would change that?

I think we have some of the best salesmen in the business, who honestly care about what you purchase and will not upsell something to you if you don't need it.

If you haven't been to our shop, just come in and ask for Dallas, if he can't change your opinion of us, then we should just close down and let PBK run everything.

Also, I noticed if you said "ProBikeKit can treat me like **** cheaper than you can". Seems a bit negative. Hope we can change your feelings/opinion in the future.

"The Customer Is Always Right" is a great phrase, right along with "Always Listen to your Parents"

 

[Hitchy]

"The Customer Is Always Right" is a great phrase, right along with "Always Listen to your Parents"

Pffft, 'the customer is always right', only applies if you can afford to let them 'be right'! & want their business!....as was alluded to earlier, the customer is generally price driven, despite a value that a retailer will place on their service, backup & reputation. If the retailer is happy to bastardize his margins so the customer can 'be right' then so be it. If he isn't, he shouldn't be demonised for trying to put food on his table. In any event, a customer is only a customer once a transaction has been agreed upon, before that he's a browser.

 

[scotty72]

Scott,

Have you ever been to our shop? If you feel unwelcome, what would change that?

Yes, as I've said, many times. I've bought (on separate occasions) gloves, tubes, a jersey, pedals, cleats (after storming out of Woolies) etc.

I didn't say I felt uncomfortable. I said the price differentiation gives the impression that people are unwelcome. When I found out the online price is cheaper, despite it took no staff any time to buy these items (other than take my money and issue a receipt) - I felt cheated. I'm sure I'm not alone here. Yes, the items were mostly cheaper than other stores but, my perception is that it is unfair, part of a scam, they want to charge me for breathing their special air, whatever.... Probably not, but perception is everything

I think we have some of the best salesmen in the business, who honestly care about what you purchase and will not upsell something to you if you don't need it.

Not an argument there. I know a few people who've bought bikes from Cell and they have commented that the bikes aren't the cheap **** some claim they are and that they felt looked after. But that was Kakman's point. If they are fitted to the bike, modifications are made, tyres are swapped etc., then that is the service component you speak of - I doubt anyone (other than those who buy a k-mart bike) would argue with that. In fact, the reason I went to Woolies to buy my bike was a friend told me they took a huge amount of time/effort measuring and doing stuff like customising stem lenghts etc. They were more expensive (a little) but I too was very pleased that they spent a good deal of time (over an hour) making sure the bike fit me, I was comfy etc.. I've long since thinking of the price because the bike has paid for itself 5 times over (in my mind at least). My point was about the cleats. I picked them up from the shelf no service.

If you haven't been to our shop, just come in and ask for Dallas, if he can't change your opinion of us, then we should just close down and let PBK run everything.

I know Dallas fairly well, from his days at the other shop not too far along the train line from you. Occassionally get to ride with him. Next time I buy a bike - assuming it is a SCOTT and you still sell them, Dallas will be on the top of my go to list. (ok, I've sucked up enough).

Also, I noticed if you said "ProBikeKit can treat me like **** cheaper than you can". Seems a bit negative. Hope we can change your feelings/opinion in the future.

I meant that people (incl me) know that whilst I can get stuff cheap from PBK, they are notorious for impersonal service. I was saying that penalising a customer for walking through the door seems very, very impersonal (and you miss the up-sell op too - I'm a sucker for that). If I feel the service is impersonal (discouraging me via a penalty), or I'm being slugged a service fee when it is not necessary to service me (eg. I walk in, grab tube, pay), then customers get peeved.

"The Customer Is Always Right" is a great phrase, right along with "Always Listen to your Parents"

Except when they are being unreasonable *****.

Scotty

 

[scotty72]

Pffft, 'the customer is always right', only applies if you can afford to let them 'be right'! & want their business!....as was alluded to earlier, the customer is generally price driven, despite a value that a retailer will place on their service, backup & reputation. If the retailer is happy to bastardize his margins so the customer can 'be right' then so be it. If he isn't, he shouldn't be demonised for trying to put food on his table. In any event, a customer is only a customer once a transaction has been agreed upon, before that he's a browser.

Not sure about that.

For some things yes. Others, no.

Price is forgotten long after quality is remembered.

For a exact match that requires no service - PRICE. Even then, going PBK has its risks. It can take a long time and too often, they stuff the order up - and as said, if you need to return - BIG hassle.

Also, $18.99 post. You need to buy enough stuff to justify that.


But if you need service - you get what you pay for. If I've got a $3,000 bike, I don't want a cheap, quickie service. Nor do I want to waste my $$$ if it is ill-fitting and uncomfortable. Also, I don't want my jersey to arrive to discover they have made this year's sizes different to last year (been there before)

For the supermarket bike buyer - you're right.

For the type of person who would spend $1,000 + , I'm not so sure.

Scotty

 

[flipper]

When I found out the online price is cheaper, despite it took no staff any time to buy these items (other than take my money and issue a receipt) - I felt cheated.

Yeah I would too , what with staff working for free and everything...

 

[scotty72]

Yeah I would too , what with staff working for free and everything...

I always find that sarcasm helps to passify and solve issues.

Let's do the maths

The whole process of handing over the money and obtaining a receipt took no longer than 30 secs.

the price differential was (going by memory about $4)

So let's now calculate what you think bike shop sales staff are worth per hour.

there are 120 x 30 secs in an hour

120 x
4
====
$480

Gee, why become a Supreme Court barrister or a brain surgeon when being a bike shop sales guy is so much more lucrative?

 

[CELLbikes]

I always find that sarcasm helps to passify and solve issues.

Let's do the maths

The whole process of handing over the money and obtaining a receipt took no longer than 30 secs.

the price differential was (going by memory about $4)

So let's now calculate what you think bike shop sales staff are worth per hour.

there are 120 x 30 secs in an hour

120 x
4
====
$480

Gee, why become a Supreme Court barrister or a brain surgeon when being a bike shop sales guy is so much more lucrative?

That's great maths Scotty, if that were true and worked out that way, we'd be laughin'.

Unfortunately there are times (worst case scenario) when someone is umming and aaahing for two hours (on a busy Saturday), have tried about 10 different bikes, have gotten you to adjust the stem, seatpost, pedals etc for all 10 of the bikes, have you break down the differences of each one ("since the rim on this one is 2mm wider, how does that impact performance"), has you change 3/4 different seats, has you fitting cleats to shoes they may or may not buy, gets up to the register, pulls out their wallet....and says "you know what, I'm going to have a think about it".

I'm not saying that customers don't deserve this kind of service, we are happy to do so, however, it's times like these that can be a bit frustrating. Am I wrong?

Also, am I mistaken in thinking that we have some of the best prices in Sydney? So low in fact that a large adventure gear chain in Auburn puts the squeeze on some of our suppliers to not supply to us.

 

[sogood]

Cell Bikes 1 - Bike Knight 0.

+1!

In relation to the price differential b/n Cell's online vs in-store pricing, I think that's well within Cell's right to do so. It's just an issue of business model that they are trying to encourage and build their online business. Take it or leave it. Further, it's not meaningful to just consider the item cost for online purchases as P&H needs to be factored in to derive at the true cost.

Anyway, I have no problems with merchants having differential pricing b/n their online and in-store sales. Do what they like as long as it's clearly communicated to potential purchasers.

 

[CELLbikes]

+1!

In relation to the price differential b/n Cell's online vs in-store pricing, I think that's well within Cell's right to do so. It's just an issue of business model that they are trying to encourage and build their online business. Take it or leave it. Further, it's not meaningful to just consider the item cost for online purchases as P&H needs to be factored in to derive at the true cost.

Anyway, I have no problems with merchants having differential pricing b/n their online and in-store sales. Do what they like as long as it's clearly communicated to potential purchasers.

I totally agree with that and soon we'll have the same prices online and in the shop (as we're rolling out a new website as well). So after that happens everything will be sweet, right?

 

[sogood]

I totally agree with that and soon we'll have the same prices online and in the shop (as we're rolling out a new website as well). So after that happens everything will be sweet, right?

Yes and no as the online price will now have an added P&H cost, making the product more expensive than in-store sales. For me, being relatively closely located to Cell's Sydney store, it won't affect me one bit. For others, if they just raised the on-line pricing, then it's a loss. At the end of the day, it's Cell Bikes' business decision.

 

[SEGFTG]

I always find that sarcasm helps to passify and solve issues.

Let's do the maths

The whole process of handing over the money and obtaining a receipt took no longer than 30 secs.

the price differential was (going by memory about $4)

So let's now calculate what you think bike shop sales staff are worth per hour.

there are 120 x 30 secs in an hour

120 x
4
====
$480

Gee, why become a Supreme Court barrister or a brain surgeon when being a bike shop sales guy is so much more lucrative?

I am sure any business that sells to 120 customers p/hour in a retail shop would be more than happy to give away the four dollars... your maths is great but your commonsense is lacking.

 

[scotty72]

That's great maths Scotty, if that were true and worked out that way, we'd be laughin'.

Unfortunately there are times (worst case scenario) when someone is umming and aaahing for two hours (on a busy Saturday), have tried about 10 different bikes, have gotten you to adjust the stem, seatpost, pedals etc for all 10 of the bikes, have you break down the differences of each one ("since the rim on this one is 2mm wider, how does that impact performance"), has you change 3/4 different seats, has you fitting cleats to shoes they may or may not buy, gets up to the register, pulls out their wallet....and says "you know what, I'm going to have a think about it".

I'm not saying that customers don't deserve this kind of service, we are happy to do so, however, it's times like these that can be a bit frustrating. Am I wrong?

Also, am I mistaken in thinking that we have some of the best prices in Sydney? So low in fact that a large adventure gear chain in Auburn puts the squeeze on some of our suppliers to not supply to us.

Yes, I can imagine. BUT, many customers will say, if some idiot wastes your time as you describe, why punish me for my 30 sec tube transaction?

I said that many or most of you higher store prices are cheaper than others anyway - but it is the perception. Perception is reality.

Yes, CELL bikes can do as it pleases but I thought we were discussing what can turn people off. I am giving my opinion of what turns people off.

As I said, all power to CELL. I just thought that Kakman made a good point.

As for ANACONDA, they are the classic eg of usually being cheap but having staff who have no idea about anything outside of their one size fits all brouchered view of the world.

Scotty

 

[CELLbikes]

Yes, I can imagine. BUT, many customers will say, if some idiot wastes your time as you describe, why punish me for my 30 sec tube transaction?

I said that many or most of you higher store prices are cheaper than others anyway - but it is the perception. Perception is reality.

Yes, CELL bikes can do as it pleases but I thought we were discussing what can turn people off. I am giving my opinion of what turns people off.

As I said, all power to CELL. I just thought that Kakman made a good point.

As for ANACONDA, they are the classic eg of usually being cheap but having staff who have no idea about anything outside of their one size fits all brouchered view of the world.

Scotty

So when our prices are the same on the net and in store you'll be rapt?

 

[sogood]

I said that many or most of you higher store prices are cheaper than others anyway - but it is the perception. Perception is reality.

Yes, CELL bikes can do as it pleases but I thought we were discussing what can turn people off. I am giving my opinion of what turns people off.

I accept that people can have different interpretations. But my simple reading of it is that Cell was just trying to develop their online business. And as pointed out earlier, if the prices were the same, then I won't bother with online orders.

The other way to look at it is this, customers are given a discount for not being able to directly examine a product when buying online. Pretty fair as far as I am concerned.

 

[CELLbikes]

I accept that people can have different interpretations. But my simple reading of it is that Cell was just trying to develop their online business. And as pointed out earlier, if the prices were the same, then I won't bother with online orders.

The other way to look at it is this, customers are given a discount for not being able to directly examine a product when buying online. Pretty fair as far as I am concerned.

As we expand throughout Australia, we'd be looking to have more people visit our shops than buy online if they live near a shop, however some people may be too busy or have a hectic schedule, so having an online option may be suitable.

 

[scotty72]

So when our prices are the same on the net and in store you'll be rapt?

Overwhelmed with joy! I will feel that I am not being discouraged or punished for walking into the door. You know, when banks charged people for over the counter service rather than doing it online - there was outrage. Same here.

As we expand throughout Australia, we'd be looking to have more people visit our shops than buy online if they live near a shop, however some people may be too busy or have a hectic schedule, so having an online option may be suitable.

People who use the hectic schedule, too busy etc excuse are often those who say the same thing when you ask them why they don't ride more. Then again, if they bike then ingnore the bike - you probably don't care too much - then again, they aren't coming back to buy consumables etc.

 

[kakman]

Pffft, 'the customer is always right', only applies if you can afford to let them 'be right'! & want their business!....as was alluded to earlier, the customer is generally price driven, despite a value that a retailer will place on their service, backup & reputation. If the retailer is happy to bastardize his margins so the customer can 'be right' then so be it. If he isn't, he shouldn't be demonised for trying to put food on his table.

When someone establishes a business the cost of staff is just one of the costs along with capital expenditure, taxes, insurance, rent and any other of a million things. This should be wrapped into the price of the goods. It should also be understood that retail is still a service business. Customers - rightly or wrongly - expect to be able to get service.

(I believe) it's patently wrong to have a strategy where a box of Gu or a pair of pedals are considered too service intensive to justify being able to buy them at the store for the same price as online. At the end of the day, the online store still has to have someone get the goods from stock, package and post them. Then there's the cost of the online transaction. I'd find it hard to believe it costs more for someone to spend 30 seconds taking the money and issuing a receipt.

I'm not worried if that's the way they want to do business, but it's a very strange business model and no matter what anyone else says or thinks, it turns me away from using them.

Not trying to turn this into a sh1tfight, just stating my position. They ask on the website why I don't buy, I'm being good and telling them

/k

 

[kakman]

a customer is only a customer once a transaction has been agreed upon, before that he's a browser.

no - he's a potential customer - all the more reason to offer him great service.

/k

 

[kakman]

So when our prices are the same on the net and in store you'll be rapt?

depends on whether you reduce your in store prices or increase your online prices.

/k

 

[Hitchy]

no - he's a potential customer - all the more reason to offer him great service.

/k

....don't disagree with that, but we've already established that price, regardless of service, is the driver....that'd be why 80 % of the bike shops around are struggling to make a quid