Contador not best overall - Merckx

[Eagle of Toledo]

He's right of course. As good as Contador is as a stage race rider he has some rather glaring ommissions in his palmares - great one day races for instance. Some folks develop tunnel vision on this point. I think that mantle would have to go to Valverde with Rebellin second (talking all-round classic + GT rider):

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/start.asp

 

[limerickman]

He's right of course. As good as Contador is as a stage race rider he has some rather glaring ommissions in his palmares - great one day races for instance. Some folks develop tunnel vision on this point. I think that mantle would have to go to Valverde with Rebellin second (talking all-round classic + GT rider):

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/start.asp

Merckx is correct of course.

Valverde is a good nomination : I would have also included Feire and certainly Zabel (recently retired).

 

[Eagle of Toledo]

Merckx is correct of course.

Valverde is a good nomination : I would have also included Feire and certainly Zabel (recently retired).

Yep, Zabel is a definite. In terms of pure number of victories he has more than any current rider.

 

[limerickman]

On the more general subject though, I would like to see the so-called top riders race throughout the season, more frequently than they do.

The average speed of races in this era is not, on average, much quicker than races back in the Merckx/Hinault era.
If you believe the hype (and I don't) - this current bunch are supposed to be better trained, better focussed than their predecessors.
Therefore there is no reason why the should not race more frequently in my view.

(personally, I think the riders of the 70/80 and early 1990's, were far better riders.
When you factor in the level of support the current generation get in terms of training, wages, accomodation, logistical support, team support, technology : the riders of those previous eras would have been even better with this level of support, back then. RANT OVER!)

 

[Eagle of Toledo]

Couldn't agree more Lim.

They say riders today are a lot more "specialized". Well, so was Merckx - he specialized in winning - whatever kind of race it was. To me specialized is a euphemism for being sparing. I guess that's what makes Merckx the best ever, he stood head and shoulders above everyone else in his generation. To be frank I don't think there will ever be another like him...

 

[Eldrack]

No doubt that Contador is the best stage/gt racer at the moment but I agree with Merckx: The complete rider has to have wins in the one day races as well. Valverde has the best consistency across stage and one day races at the moment although Di Luca has also put in some good efforts, Kirchen looks to be developing on both fronts and if Cunego can get his GT form back he'll be in contention as one of the top all rounders. Zabel and Freire are both great one day race winners but when it comes to the longer races they just don't place on the GC so I personnally wouldn't really consider them as good all rounders.

To win at everything all season round you have to be very good as a weaker rider who picks a couple of events to peak for will have a big advantage over someone who is racing all year round. Merckx rode in an era where everyone rode all year round and on that level playing field he destroyed them all. Had a few of his opponents limited their racing and focused on a few events (not that it would have been possible for them financially) Merckx probably wouldn't have won so many races.

Quite simply the benefits of training to peak once or maybe twice a year are now recognised to be so big that the days of all year round competition is pretty much dead unless all the top pro's agree to do most of the races.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I think this sucks. Would be much better if they all competed all year round.

 

[Wayne666]

Therefore there is no reason why the should not race more frequently in my view.

I think a large reason for the specialization of riders in the modern era was/is an attempt to minimize risk of getting popped by a dope test while maximizing their value. If I dope for a few months and win the Giro, does it really make sense for me to keep going on a full program for the Tour (e.g. Simoni).

Seems like plenty of riders have talked about this. Up until the last few years racing with any real purpose required being juiced to the gills, and that carried a certain risk. Better to get your result and then just make up the numbers or sit at home for the rest of the season.

 

[ilpirata]

I would tend to agree. Though Sastre, to his credit, did put in a good showing at the Vuelta last year following the tour win, if I remember correctly. Basso was set to try the giro -tour before the Puerto scandal (of course he was likely seriously juiced). DiLuca and Contador shine above the others with respect to being serious threats at the classics and also threats to win the overall at stage tours.

I think a large reason for the specialization of riders in the modern era was/is an attempt to minimize risk of getting popped by a dope test while maximizing their value. If I dope for a few months and win the Giro, does it really make sense for me to keep going on a full program for the Tour (e.g. Simoni).

Seems like plenty of riders have talked about this. Up until the last few years racing with any real purpose required being juiced to the gills, and that carried a certain risk. Better to get your result and then just make up the numbers or sit at home for the rest of the season.

 

[whiteboytrash]

I would tend to agree. Though Sastre, to his credit, did put in a good showing at the Vuelta last year following the tour win, if I remember correctly. Basso was set to try the giro -tour before the Puerto scandal (of course he was likely seriously juiced). DiLuca and Contador shine above the others with respect to being serious threats at the classics and also threats to win the overall at stage tours.

Huh ???? Contador classics ? More a mini stage / GT man....... Andy Shleck or Cuengo is more your classics slash GT boys.....

 

[slovakguy]

putting merckx & hinault in their own category, the flip side to the argument would be de vlaeminck or moser who rode the classics superbly but didn't close the deal on the g.t.'s. very often (if at all in de vlaeminck's case). and i'd still want those two on any team i'd put together.

on a side note, will saxo push cancellara forward or put the bankroll on one of the schlecks this year?

 

[limerickman]

putting merckx & hinault in their own category, the flip side to the argument would be de vlaeminck or moser who rode the classics superbly but didn't close the deal on the g.t.'s. very often (if at all in de vlaeminck's case). and i'd still want those two on any team i'd put together.

on a side note, will saxo push cancellara forward or put the bankroll on one of the schlecks this year?

Interesting question re Cancellara/Schleck :

Looking at the superb season Cancellara had in 2008, it was evident that this guy can do much more than simply time trial.
His performances in the major one day races were great but for me his real potential showed in the 2008 TDF.
Canc, after having a great spring/early summer 2008, flogged himself for CSC and his climbing was superb at the 2008 TDF.

 

[slovakguy]

like you, lim, i'd like for f.c. to get his day in the sun, but i think it's time for riis to put andy schleck on the spot. riis has such a great opportunity to put a prodigy forward who has all the abilities to be great like anquetil or coppi. he's a strong rider, has put together some high quality plamares, and has a team. i can only hope he's just brash enough to try and ride his competitors off his wheels.

 

[IH8LANCE]

I'm guessing that Contador and other riders who have specialized in winning GTs will settle for the substantially enhanced fame and fortune that goes with being the "best GT rider" as opposed to the "best all-around rider". The only thing he lacks is the unqualified endorsement of the self-proclaimed cognoscenti who still define cycling greatness based on the criteria of past generations.